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1  Theology / Bible Study / The Symbolism of Sinai on: May 21, 2005, 12:03:15 PM
Mount Sinai represents the synthesis of the two potentials mentioned above. For on one hand, it is "the lowest of all the mountains," a symbol of humility, and yet it is a mountain, exemplifying pride and power. It is the fusion of these two opposites which made Sinai, "the mountain of G-d," the place which G-d chose to manifest His presence and convey His teachings.

There is, however, a slight difficulty. The Torah reading is not named Behar Sinai, "On Mount Sinai"; it is called Behar, "on the mountain." The qualities of pride and fortitude are emphasized, but not the modulating influence of the humility of Sinai, "the lowest of all the mountains."

In resolution, it can be explained that the phrase Behar Sinai, "On Mount Sinai," refers to a person who reminds himself of the need to subdue his self-importance. The very fact that these efforts are necessary indicates that his humility does not entirely encompass his being.

When, by contrast, a person has totally sublimated his identity to the mission with which G-d has entrusted him, he does not need to remind himself of the need to be humble; self-concern is of no importance to him. This is the intent of the name Behar, "on the mountain" - that a servant of G-d stands proud, firmly rooted in the power endowed by the strength of his purpose.

This strength of purpose will enable our people to overcome all the challenges confronting us during these last moments of exile, and go on to greet Mashiach. May this take place in the immediate future.

from Chabad.org
2  Theology / Apologetics / Are Christians restored to the Sinai Covenant? on: April 21, 2005, 09:39:01 PM
Torah Observance Are Christians restored to the Sinai Covenant?
Some people, having discovered the joy of the Jewish roots of their faith, want to take it to the “next level” by becoming “Torah observant,” by which they mean obligated to follow the commandments found in the writings of Moses and interpreted by certain Rabbinical authorities as halakhah, or the “way to walk” the Jewish life. This position I would call “neo-Ebionism,” so named after the sect of the Ebionites who, though they apparently accepted Yeshua as the Messiah, rejected the teachings of Paul and insisted that the writings of Moses should be strictly observed for the true follower of Jesus.
 Today’s neo-Ebionites will say that since Jesus and his first followers were “Torah observant,” we should be likewise. They will point out that the only reference in the Tanakh for the new covenant (brit chadashah) is in Jeremiah 31:31-34, where it is clearly stated that God would write his Torah within our inward parts and write in upon our hearts:
 I will put my torah into their inward parts
and I will write it in their hearts...
 Matthew 5:17-20 is then often cited as a proof-text that Jesus explicitly taught His followers to observe the commandments of Moses (i.e., the Torah):

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (i.e., Torah) or the Prophets (i.e., Nevi’im); I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota (i.e. Yod), not a dot (i.e., tag), will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes (soferim) and Pharisees (perushim), you will never enter the kingdom of heaven (malkhut hashamayim).

Immediately after saying these things, Jesus goes on to explain what He meant by saying that our righteousness was to exceed that of the scribes and the Pharisees. “You have heard that it was said to those of old... but I say to you...” (Matt 5:21-48). But note that in each case Jesus takes the p’shat (outward meaning) of the commandment and moves it inward, to the “inward parts,” by “writing it upon our hearts”:
 Old (written upon tablets)
 New (written upon the heart)
No Murder (Ex. 20:13; Deut 5:17)
 No Anger / resentment (Matt 5:21-4)
No Adultery (Ex. 20:14; Deut 5:18)
 No Lust (Matt 5:22-32)
No False Witness (Ex. 20:16; Deut 5:20)
 Simple Honesty (Matt 5:33-7)
Eye for Eye Justice (Ex. 21:24)
 Forgiveness (Matt 5:38-42)
Love friends; hate enemies (Lev 19:18)
 Love all people (Matt 5:43-48)
Outer Righteousness
 Inner Righteousness (Matt 6:1-4)
Formulaic prayer
 Secret Prayer (Matt 6:5-6)
Ostentatious Religiosity
 Secret Fasting (Matt 6:16-18)
 Inwardness (Matt 7:12)
 The Inner is not the Outer
 It should be evident that Jesus’ midrash regarding these commandments is intended to move the focus away from an outward appearance of righteousness (as was affected by certain Jewish leaders of Jesus’ day) toward the inward motivation of the heart. In this sense is our righteousness to exceed the scrupulous forms of observance as practiced by the scribes and Pharisees. Jesus is putting the Torah into the inward parts and writing it upon the heart.

Indeed, Jesus had some fierce words for those Jews who hold to the “traditions of the elders” but who “make void the word of God” for the sake of Jewish traditions:

Then Pharisees (perushim) and scribes (soferim) came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat." He answered them, "And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God commanded, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.' But you say, 'If anyone tells his father or his mother, What you would have gained from me is given to God, he need not honor his father.' So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: "'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' (Matt 15:1-9)

Matthew 23:2-3 is another supposed proof-text that neo-Ebionites will cite to support the view that followers of Jesus should observe the teachings of the rabbinics:

The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so practice and observe whatever they tell you - but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice.

Prima facie it seems that Jesus is saying that His followers are to practice and observe the Jewish traditions as expounded by the scribes and Pharisees. However, when we closely read the context of this passage we note that these words undoubtedly indicate irony and scorn for outward their shows of righteousness (Matt 23:13-36). If Jesus had seriously meant for His followers to practice and observe what the scribes and Pharisees had taught, why would He go on to berate them as hypocrites who “shut up the kingdom of heaven against men,” making a “pretense” of their prayers and going out of their way to make one convert who is “twice the child of hell” than themselves?  Would Jesus have you and I practice and observe these sorts of things? On the contrary, the overall context of this passage indicates that the follower of Jesus should not become subject to their authority. This interpretation is further made evident by Jesus’ statement that we are to be subject to Him alone as Teacher and are to call no one “rabbi,” the traditional appellation of the Jewish leaders of the day (Matt 23:Cool.
 Covenant and Torah
 What is Torah about, anyway? As is well known, the word itself derives from a root meaning “direction,” or “aim,” or “instruction.” But are not all these terms relative to something else, something more fundamental as the goal or “end” of such instruction? Indeed, what would it mean to instruct or direct someone without a destination? Would you attend a class if there was no impartation of knowledge as its justification? Would you read a map that had directions that led to nowhere?

So what, then, is the goal of torah? Is it not - in the end - to be reconciled to God, to be in vital relationship with Him, in short, to be in loving communion with Him? But how is that to be effected? Is it through “rule-following” behaviors, or is there something else that needs to be provided in order to accomplish this end?

Is not “torah” essentially man’s response to this “something else,” and is not this more basic thing God’s covenant?

Torah is a function of covenant -- as man’s responsibilty -- and therefore torah has changed in light of God’s different covenants. For example, the earliest of the patriarchs - from Adam to Noah to Abraham - all observed torah in the sense that they related to God through covenant. Consider that Noah, Abraham, and even Moses himself offered blood sacrifices to God before additional torah was given at Sinai (Exodus 5:3).

In light of this distinction, we need to restrict the topic and ask the question as to whether we are bound to keep the terms of the covenant made with Israel at Sinai or whether there is indeed a new covenant that has been effected by means of which we may now draw near to God.  In other words, is the life, sacrificial death, and resurrection of Jesus merely a means to a renewed Sinaitical covenant relationship with God, or does it constitute a genuinely new way of being in relationship with Him?  

How we answer this question will determine what we mean by “torah” and our covenantal responsibilities before the LORD.

Now what did Jesus teach us about the new covenant with God? Did He focus on ritual, obligatary prayer or the traditions of the elders as the means of observing torah? No, He said that torah is observed by our inward response to His sacrificial death and resurrection for us and is demonstrated by loving God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, and by loving our neighbor as ourself. “On these two commandments,” He said, “hang all the law and the prophets” (Matt 22:35-40; see also John 15:12-14).

In other words, the love of God and others is the goal or purpose of torah, and, as Paul wrote in Romans 13:10, “Love is the fulfilling of the law” (see also Gal 5:14).
 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:10)
 ha’ahava lo ta’aseh ra lare’a al-ken ha’ahavah hi
kiyum ha-Torah
 The Torah of Jesus (Torat Yeshua) is love. When we truly love God and our neighbor, we ipso facto fulfill the intent of the various rules, ordinances, and statutes as found in the writings of Moses. In this sense, then, and based on the new covenant promises we have in Jesus, we indeed have direction, aim, and instruction for the walk of life. The halakhah of Jesus is the walk of love, and this love entirely transcends the role of rule-following behaviors as our way to truly commune with God and with our fellow man.
Hebrew for Christians
Copyright © John J. Parsons
All rights reserved.

3  Theology / General Theology / A Question About Luke 23:11 and John 19:2 on: April 14, 2005, 08:23:59 PM

Luke 23:11  And Herod with his men of war set him at naught and mocked him and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe and sent him again to Pilate.  (Key Word Study Bible) King James Bible

The Complete Jewish Bible - Variation (ELEGANT).

John 19:1 So then Pilate took Jesus and scourged Him. And the soldiers twisted a crown of thorns and put it on His head and they put on Him a purple robe. (The Reformation Study Bible) The New King James.

I came across these 2 verses and was wondering if this robe that Yeshua (Jesus) wore in John 19:2 was the same Gorgeous or Elegant Robe that Herod's Soldiers placed on Yeshua in Luke 23:11?

Has anyone ever came across this before? are there any other verses mentioned about a purple and or elegant or gorgeous robe in other NT verses before Yeshuas sacrifice on the cross? or has anyone have theories about these 2 verses? about the robe.  What is everyones opionion on this i would like to know!


4  Theology / Debate / Re:How Could We Trust God If... on: February 26, 2005, 02:17:01 PM

All Israel means all of the Jewish people who are currently living will all be saved it will be a Universal Salvation for the Jewish people when Christ comes and reveals His nailed scared hand to the Jewish Race.

5  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Sanhedrin Rabbis Are In The Process Of Renewing The Passover Sacrifice on: January 31, 2005, 12:25:00 PM

 Hey there NANA here is the link that you asked Smiley


shalom... Michael
6  Theology / Bible Study / The Table Of Nations Genesis Chapter 10 on: January 29, 2005, 10:16:52 PM

7  Prayer / General Discussion / Top Secret American Military Installations in Israel on: January 28, 2005, 12:08:41 PM
               ARUTZ 7 Jewish Publication

A new book by an American military journalist and commentator reveals the extent of the US military presence on Israeli soil.
“Code Names,” by William M. Arkin, exposes information about at least five US Army bases at secret locations throughout the Jewish State, including one at Ben Gurion Airport and another in Herzliya Pituah. The book also provides a long list of code names describing joint military operations between Israel and America.

Arkin is an independent journalist and military commentator for NBC and a former intelligence analyst for US ground forces. A front-page story in “The New York Times,” based on one of the book’s revelations has given the book broad publicity and granted it wide legitimacy.

Late Republican Senator Jesse Helms used to call Israel “America’s aircraft carrier in the Middle East,” when explaining why the US viewed Israel as such a strategic ally, saying that the military foothold in the region offered by the Jewish State alone justified the military aid that the US grants Israel every year. The new revelations also act to weaken the argument for Israeli policy decisions based on "American pressure."

Arkin claims that the officially "non-existent" sites across Israel contain $500 million worth of ammunition the United States keeps in Israel for wartime contingencies. The bases, called Sites 51, 53, 54, 55 and 56 don't appear on any maps and their specific locations are classified and highly sensitive.

“It's not just munitions,” Arkin wrote in the Washington Post before the release of his book. “The United States has ‘prepositioned’ vehicles, military equipment, even a 500-bed hospital, for US Marines, Special Forces, and Air Force fighter and bomber aircraft at at least six sites in Israel, all part of what is antiseptically described as ‘US-Israel strategic cooperation.’"

Israel is not the only country in the region to host US military bases, though. There are American military facilities in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Oman, and the Gulf states, as well.
8  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Sanhedrin Rabbis Are In The Process Of Renewing The Passover Sacrifice on: January 26, 2005, 01:24:56 PM

                            Arutz 7

The 71 rabbis seeking to fulfill the Biblical commandment of renewing the Sanhedrin continue to meet regularly, solidifying their organizational structure and establishing an agenda of topics.
Their most recent meeting was this week, in which they discussed technical and procedural issues, topics for their agenda, and the Halakhic [Jewish legal] and other ramifications of renewing the Passover sacrifice.

The rabbis held a festive ceremony this past October 13th, the 28th day of the Jewish month of Tishrei, inaugurating the Sanhedrin as Judaism's supreme legal body. They stress that by doing so, they are merely fulfilling a Biblical mitzvah (obligation). “It is a special mitzvah , based on our presence in Israel, to establish a Sanhedrin,” Rabbi Meir HaLevi, one of the 71 members of the new Sanhedrin, has explained. “The Rambam [12th-century Torah scholar Maimonides] describes the process exactly in the Mishnah Torah [his seminal work codifying Jewish Law]. When he wrote it, there was no Sanhedrin, and he therefore outlines the steps necessary to establish one."

A religious-legal assembly of 71 Sages that convened in the Holy Temple and for several centuries after its destruction, the Sanhedrin was the highest Jewish judicial tribunal in the Land of Israel. Organizers of the current edition stress that they are still in a transitional phase, and that though today's members are all Torah scholars and experts in many secular and scientific fields, every one of them has agreed to step aside the moment a more deserving candidate should step forward.

Meeting in Jerusalem’s Old City, the Sanhedrin consists of representatives of all stripes of religious Jewish society. Hareidi-religious, Hassidic, national-religious, Ashkenazi, Sephardic, modern Orthodox and university professors sit side by side in a semi-circle, seeking to re-establish Jewish legal tradition after 2,000 years of exile.

"We can make a real difference," said one member, Rabbi Chaim Richman of Jerusalem. "Many cardinal issues are on the public agenda, and our body – which is totally based on Torah, even down to its rules and regulations – is naturally geared to deal with them. Issues such as agunot (estranged women whose husbands refuse to give them a divorce), abortions, traffic safety, economic issues, education, and so much more."

"Not only are we commanded to establish the Sanhedrin," Rabbi Richman told Arutz-7's Yosef Meiri, "but this seems to be the perfect time to do so - a time of Divine will. On the one hand, there is a spiritual void in the 'establishment,' and on the other hand, there is a real thirst among the public for spirituality and guidance."

The Sanhedrin's takanon, document of regulations, is still undergoing final adjustments prior to its official adoption. A permanent Nassi, President, and Av Beit HaDin, literally, Court Father, still must be elected. The continuing role of the Vaad HaMechonen , the founding committee that has led the Sanhedrin thus far, also needs to be determined. But the Sanhedrin is carefully moving ahead, strictly adhering to the guidelines set out by Maimonides, who classified the obligation to reestablish the Sanhedrin as one that is incumbent upon every generation.

“The Sanhedrin is past its greatest initial hurdles,” a spokesman told IsraelNN's Ezra HaLevi, “namely, the return of genuine semikha [authentic rabbinical ordination] to Israel, and the historic meeting in Tiberias in Tishrei, at which 71 rabbis actually convened and officially reinstated the Sanhedrin. We believe these achievements are irreversible.”

Contrary to the expected criticism, Sanhedrin organizers insist that the reinstatement ceremony was neither just a show nor a one-time phenomenon, but is rather Halakhically-sound and a true beginning.

The rabbis were asked to prepare topics they thought the Sanhedrin should deal with, and a fascinating array of topics was produced. In addition to those mentioned above by Rabbi Richman, the list included such issues as:
* uniform kashrut certification
* the precise length of the biblical cubit (with ramifications on many issues, including the location of the altar on the Temple Mount)
* unemployment
* assisting Anousim from Spain and Portugal and others whose ancestors were forced to convert
* lost Jewish tribes from other parts of the world
* unifying Sephardic and Ashkenazi practices on issues such as prayer liturgy, kitniyot (legumes) on Passover, and glass utensils
* the Sanhedrin's decision-making procedures
* foreign workers
* unifying the religious parties
* restoring the Davidic monarchy
* an ethical code for Israel's army (as opposed to the present one, which is based largely on secular sources)
* the establishment of regional "small Sanhedrins"
* the long-missing "t'chelet" blue color
* sending delegations around the country to hear people's concerns,
and much more.

Though a lecture on renewing the Paschal offering was delivered at the last meeting, not all of the 71 are yet convinced that the time is ripe for it. Various opinions were put forth, including by those opposed to the renewal of the Passover offering until the exact location of the Temple altar is determined through prophecy.

"The real achievement of the meeting was that rabbis from such diverse backgrounds could sit together to discuss such an issue," said Rabbi Michael S. Bar-Ron, an associate of the Sanhedrin from Beit Shemesh. " It demonstrated that the Sanhedrin is alive, and has begun the long road towards its chief goal of restoring the crown of Torah to its former glory."

As expected, the issue of the disengagement came up, but the acting Nassi refused to allow the discussion until at least one rabbi supporting the plan could be found to present a sincere argument supporting it. No one could be found, and the topic was dropped.

"The Sanhedrin aims to inspire the Jewish people," Rabbi Richman said, "not coerce them. Via 'ways of pleasantness,' we will achieve a renewal of unified Jewish observance and practice."
9  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Pharaoh's chariots found in Red Sea? on: January 23, 2005, 06:08:27 PM

10  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Amazing coincidence? on: January 23, 2005, 10:49:12 AM

 Revelations chapter 7:4 clearly identifies the 144,000 as Jews. In fact the 144,000 are from the 12 tribes of Israel. verse 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed
of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed
of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed
of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed
of the tribe of LEvi twelve thousand were sealed
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed
of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.
11  Theology / Bible Study / Re:Genesis 6 on: January 22, 2005, 10:07:10 PM
   Hi there Cris, I wanted to clarify some of your questions you have.
You asked if there are third created types of (fallen) angels called devils. The answer would be no. You are correct that there are angelic beings and human beings.
In my understanding Fallen Angels are Demons. They are a fallen race of angelic beings that once worshipped God. I'm reffering to the 1/3 of fallen angels.
Satan was once the head angel before his fall. Satan once orchestrated the worship music for God. That is why satan is ruler of the air.
Satan possessed the (physical snake, God's creation) in the Garden of Eden to deceive Eve, satan did not become a literal snake but only possessed a snake that satan found in the garden of eden that day.

From what Isaiah says the Cherub Satan was very beautiful and unique from all the other angels that God has ever created. Satan was covered in different stones. Even though satan corrupted His ordained place God ordained him in, satan i believe is still the same cherub angel very beautiful but yet full of hate and murder and lies and etc.

We know through scriptures that Angels can come in human form Hebrews 13:2.  Genesis 18:6-8; 19:3, and angels eat when in there human form like humans. Psalm 78:24-25. Manna is the food of angels.

I still hold the thoery the "Sons of God" are referring to the fallen angels such as in Job 1:6. and the "Daughters of Men" are referring to common women of that time.


Hope this helps Cris
12  Theology / Bible Study / Re:Genesis 6 on: January 20, 2005, 04:16:23 AM

 The curse laden line of Cain with the godly line of Seth fails to explain adequately how "daughters of men" refers specifically to Cainite women.
13  Theology / Bible Study / Re:Genesis 6 on: January 18, 2005, 03:54:10 PM
Who are these giants and what did they do to reveal evil to mankind? What does the scriptures say about these fallen angels?

Here i will present in why i believe The Book of Enoch and Tanakh and Scriptures reveal these are the 1/3 of the angels that had fallen.

The New King James Genesis chapter 6 Now it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born to them that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. And the Lord said My Spirit shall not strive with man forever for he is indeed flesh yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years. Theere were giants on the earth in those days and also afterward when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old men of reknown. Verse 11 The earth also was corrupt before God and the earth was filled with violence. So God looked upon the earth and indeed it was corrupt for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.

1. In Hebrew Nephilim giants are presented as Fallen or mighty ones.

2. Hebrew word for Strong or Mighty ones is ATSUMIM.

3.Tanakh reveals the Nephilim appeared on earth when "the divine beings cohabited" with the daughters of men who bore them offspring. They were the heroes of old the men of reknown.

4. The Torah also mentions the Niphilm are divine beings.

5. The Book Of Enoch reveals the Niphilim are called The Watchers.

6 Also i heard that the Niphilim are called TITANS? but not sure how accuratly that would be has anyone heard that before? or any Idea?

Matthew chapter 22:29-30 Jesus answered and said to them You are mistaken not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection (they meaning mankind) neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like angels of God in heaven.

Mankind will neither be marry nor given into marriage in heaven because scriptures point out that We Believers will be married Spiritually to Christ since We are His Bride. When Matthew says we will be like angels does that mean will we be in glory as the angels are? or does Matthew mean that we will all take different Ministry or Ministering roles as the angels or similiar? I believe that it could possibly be both in my opinion. Also no where does this point that angels do not marry there is no scriptural evidence that mentions that angels cannot marry the opposite is true that angels have married such in Genesis 6.

I realize that not everyone may agree with my position on this entire subject but the scriptures are not clear that either angels before or after the fall could not marry such as the case of Genesis chapter 6 is what im reffering to. Not like a husband and wife would marry. the Nephilim and or The Watchers came took the earthly kings daughters by cohercion to Blasphemy the godly race God had created in the beginning.

Here in the book of Jubilees and especially in the book of Enoch we can get a clear and better picture and a valid and truthful answer in the Dead Sea Scrolls of why God caused the flood.

The book of Jubilees 5:1-2 Dead Sea Scrolls....{...Those fal}len. And {Brutality on earth} increased {and all flesh perverted} {its way from men to} animals, the bea{sts, the brids and everything taht moves} {over land; all these pe}rverted their ways and their standa{rds and began to consume each} other and brutality increased upo}n earth {...}

Tanakh...Genesis chapter 6 When men began to increase on earth and daughters were born to them "the divine beings" other translation "The Sons Of God" saw how beautiful they daughters of men were and took wives from among those that pleased them. The Lord said My breath shall not abide in man forever  since he too is flesh let the days allowed him be one hundred and twenty years. It was then and later too that the Nephilim appeard on earth when the divine beings cohabited with the daughtesr of men who bore them offspring. They were the heroes of old the men of renown. Verse 11 The earth became corrupt before God the earth was filled with lawlessness. When God saw how corrupt the earth was for all flesh had corrupted its ways on earth.

The Books Of Enoch Col.III(=1 Enoch 6:4-8:1) verse 13 These are {the names of their chiefs} Shemihazah, who was {their chief; Ar'teqo}f, second to him Ramt'el {third} to him Kokab'el, {fourth to him;...'el, fif}th to him; Ram'ma'el {sixth to him} Dani'el seventh {to him Zeq'el eighth} to him Baraq'el ninth {to him, Asa'el tenth to him Hermoni eleventh} to him Matar'el twelfth {to him} Anan'el thirteenth {to him Sato'el fourt{teenth to him Shamshi{el, fift)eenth to him Sahari'el sixteenth to him Tumi'el sevent(eenth to him) Turi'el eighteenth to him Yomie'el ninteenth to him' {Yehadi'el twentieth to him.) verse 13 These are the chiefs of the chief of tens. They and their chiefs (all took for themselves) women, chooseing (from) among (them) all and (they began to penetrate women, choosing (from) among (them) all, and (they began to penetrate them, and be defiled by them) and taught them sorcery, (imcantations and the cutting of roots and to explain herbs.} They became pregnant by them, and {gave birthy to giants, some three thousand cubits tall, who} were born upon the earth (in keeping with their infancy and grew at the rate of their growth and consumed} the work of all the sons of men, without  {the men being able to supply them. The giants} plotted to kill the men (and to consume them. They began to sin and to...) against all the birds and animals of the earth {and against the reptiles who move upon the earth and in the waters} and in the sky and the fish of the sea and for some to consume the flesh (of one another and drink the blook. then} {the earth denounced the} wicked {for all that has been done to it.} {Asa'el taught men} to {apply...}

Col.IV(Enoch 8:3-9:36-8)  Shemihazah taught incantations (and (how) to cut roots; Hermoni taught (how) to undo magic} sorcery, magic and skills {Baraq'el taught the signs of the shafts Kokab'el taught} the signs of the stars Zeq'el {taught the signs of the lightening Ar'teqof taught the signs of the earth} Shamsi'el taught the signs of the sun {sahari'el taught the signs of the moon. (All began) (to reveal) secrets to their wives.

Col.II(-1 Enoch 5:9-6:7-8:1) (A)ll the days (of your life...) It happened that when (in those days the sons of men increased) pretty and attractive (daughters were born to them. The Watchers, sons of the sky saw them and lusted for them) and said (to each other; Let's go and pick out women from among the daughters of men and sire for ourselves) 5(sons. verse 18 (They and their chiefs all took for themselves) women, choosing (from?) among all and they began 19 ( to penetrate them and be defiled by them and teach them} sorcery, incantations (and the cutting of roots) 20 (and to explain herbs.

Asa'el taught (men) to manufacture swords of iron and breastplates of copper and showed them} what is dug up (and how) /they could work the go{ld to leave it rea}dy;// and as for/silver,/to emboss it/for bracelets{and other jewellery for women.} (To teach women he divulged) about antimony and eye-shadow {and all the precious stones}29 (and about dyes...}

Col.III(=Enoch 8:2-9:4) (wickedness became great and they}stray(ed in all their paths. Shemihazah) taught {incantation} 2 {and (how) to cut roots; Hermoni) taught (how) to remove magic, (sorcery, magic and skills; Baraq'el taught (the signs of (the rays; Kokab;el taught the signs of the stars {Zeq'el taught the signs of the lightening....'el taught} 4 {the signs of...;'Ar}taqof taught the signs of the earth; {Shamshi;el taught the signs of the sun; Sahari'el} 5{taught the signs of the moon.} And all began to reveal {secrets to their wives.

I gave the main general proposition in the book of enoch in case no one has it on hand to read so they can get the idea of how the demonic race of the fallen angels came to distort and tried to destroy the human race. Far as i have known there are no other Eastern literature or even the Babylonian Gilgamesh stories reveal the truth of how the earth got wicked and why God had to destroy the earth by water.


Isaiah 66:9-10 and Isaiah 66:8
14  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Canal Where Jesus Gave Sight Found on: January 07, 2005, 08:23:53 PM

Here is the link Smiley


15  Prayer / General Discussion / Atheist Becomes Theist ANTONY FLEW on: January 07, 2005, 08:22:31 PM

Here is the link about the Former Athiest Antony Flew.


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