DISCUSSION FORUMS
MAIN MENU
Home
Help
Advanced Search
Recent Posts
Site Statistics
Who's Online
Forum Rules
Bible Resources
• Bible Study Aids
• Bible Devotionals
• Audio Sermons
Community
• ChristiansUnite Blogs
• Christian Forums
• Facebook Apps
Web Search
• Christian Family Sites
• Top Christian Sites
• Christian RSS Feeds
Family Life
• Christian Finance
• ChristiansUnite KIDS
Shop
• Christian Magazines
• Christian Book Store
Read
• Christian News
• Christian Columns
• Christian Song Lyrics
• Christian Mailing Lists
Connect
• Christian Singles
• Christian Classifieds
Graphics
• Free Christian Clipart
• Christian Wallpaper
Fun Stuff
• Clean Christian Jokes
• Bible Trivia Quiz
• Online Video Games
• Bible Crosswords
Webmasters
• Christian Guestbooks
• Banner Exchange
• Dynamic Content

Subscribe to our Free Newsletter.
Enter your email address:

ChristiansUnite
Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
January 28, 2022, 07:49:53 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
283601 Posts in 27534 Topics by 3790 Members
Latest Member: Goodwin
* Home Help Search Login Register
  Show Posts
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
1  Theology / Apologetics / Re:After the "Mark of the Beast, Christ comes... on: August 08, 2003, 08:52:28 PM

 The spiritual sense is in all things of the Word, and in every single particular of it. This cannot be better seen than by examples, such as the following.

John says in Revelation 19:11
I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse, and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True,and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, and He had a name written that no man knew but He Himself, and He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood, and His name is called the Word of God. And His armies in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords. And I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried with a loud voice, Come and gather yourselves together to the great supper, that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, and small and great (Rev. 19:11-18).
 
What these things signify cannot be known except from the spiritual sense of the Word, and no one can know the spiritual sense except from a knowledge of correspondences, for all the above words are correspondences,and not one expression in the Word is without meaning.

From myself: How would the Christian Church explains these words in Revelation 19:11 and what they mean?

The knowledge of correspondences teaches what is signified by the white horse, what by Him who sat thereon, what by His eyes that were as a flame of fire, what by the crowns that were upon His head, what by His vesture dipped in blood, what by the white linen in which they were clothed who were of His army in heaven, what by the angel standing in the sun, what by the great supper to which they should come and gather themselves, and what by the flesh of kings, and captains, and others, which they should eat.

The signification of each of these things in the spiritual sense may be seen in White Horse, where they are explained, so that it is unnecessary to explain them further here.

In that little work it has been shown that the Lord in respect to the Word is here described; and that by His eyes which were as a flame of fire, and by the crowns that were upon His head, and by the name that no one knew but He Himself, is meant the spiritual sense of the Word, and that no one can know it but the Lord Himself and he to whom He wills to reveal it; and also that by His vesture dipped in blood is meant the natural sense of the Word, which is the sense of its letter, to which violence has been done.

That it is the Word which is thus described is very evident, for it is said "His name is called the Word of God"; and that it is the Lord who is meant is equally clear, for it is said that the name of Him who sat on the white horse was written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

That at the end of the church the spiritual sense of the Word is to be opened is signified not only by what is said of the white horse and of Him who sat thereon, but also by the great supper to which the angel standing in the sun invited all to come, and to eat the flesh of kings and of captains, of mighty men, of horses, and of them that sat on them, and of all both free and bond.

All these expressions would be empty words and devoid of spirit and life, unless there were what is spiritual within them, like soul in body.

Harry
 

2  Theology / Apologetics / Re:After the "Mark of the Beast, Christ comes... on: August 07, 2003, 10:05:08 AM

Rev.16
Verse 1. "And I heard a great voice out of the temple, saying to the seven angels, Go, and pour out the vials of the anger of God into the earth," signifies influx from the Lord from the inmost of heaven into the church of the Reformed, where they are who are in faith separated from charity as to doctrine and as to life .

Verse 2. "And the first went forth, and poured out his vial on the earth," signifies into those who are in the interiors of the church of the Reformed, and study the doctrine of justification by faith alone, and are called the clergy. "And there came an evil and noxious sore," signifies interior evils and falsities destructive of all good and truth in the church. "Upon the men that had the mark of the beast, and that adore his image," signifies in those who live faith alone and receive the doctrine of it.

Verse 3. "And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea" signifies influx among those there who are in its externals, and in that faith, and are called the laity. "And it became blood as of one dead, and every living soul died in the sea," signifies infernal falsity with them, by which every truth of the Word and thence of the church and of faith was extinguished.

 Verse 4. "And the third angel poured out his vial into the rivers and the fountains of waters," signifies influx into the understanding of the Word with them. "And they became blood," signifies the truths of the Word falsified.

Verse 5. "And I heard the angel of the waters saying," signifies the Divine truth of the Word. "Thou art just, O Lord, who art, and who wast, and art holy, because Thou hast judged these things," signifies that this is from the Divine Providence of the Lord, who is and who was the Word, which otherwise would be profaned.

Verse 6. "Because they have poured out the blood of saints and prophets," signifies that this is for the reason, that this alone, that faith alone without the works of the law saves, being received, perverts all doctrinal truths from the Word. "And Thou hast given them blood to drink, for they are worthy," signifies that it was permitted those who have confirmed themselves in faith alone in doctrine and in life, to falsify the truths of the Word, and to imbue their life from falsified things.

Verse 7. "And I heard another out of the altar, saying, Yea, O Lord God Almighty, true and just are Thy judgments," signifies the Divine good of the Word confirming that Divine truth.

 Verse 8. "And the fourth angel poured out his vial into the sun," signifies influx into their love. "And it was given him to scorch men with fire," signifies that love to the Lord tortured them, because they were in the lusts of evils from the delight of their love.

 Verse 9. "And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who hath authority over these plagues," signifies that on account of the delight of the love of self arising from vehement lusts of evils they did not acknowledge the Divinity of the Lord's Human, from which nevertheless flows all good of love and truth of faith. "And they repented not to give Him glory," signifies that on that account they cannot receive with any faith that the Lord is the God of heaven and earth as to His Human also, although the Word teaches it.

Verse 10. "And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the throne of the beast," signifies influx into their faith. "And his kingdom became dark," signifies that nothing but falsities appeared.

Verse 11. "And they gnawed their tongues for distress," signifies that they could not endure truths. "And they blasphemed the God of heaven for their distresses and for their sores," signifies that they could not acknowledge the Lord alone to be the God of heaven and earth on account of resistance from interior falsities and evils. "And repented not of their works," signifies that though instructed from the Word, they still do not recede from falsities of faith and the evils of life.

Verse 12. "And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates," signifies influx into their interior reasonings, by which they confirm justification by faith alone. "And the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings from the rising of the sun might be prepared," signifies that the falsities of their reasonings were removed with those who are in truths from good from the Lord, and are to be introduced into the New Church.

 Verse 13. "And I saw out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet," signifies the perception that from a theology founded upon the doctrine of the Trinity of Persons in the Divinity, and upon the doctrine of justification by faith alone without the works of the law. "Three unclean spirits like frogs," signifies that there arose mere reasonings and lusts of falsifying truths.

Verse 14. "For they are spirits of demons," signifies that they were the lusts of falsifying truths and of reasoning from falsities. "Doing signs, to go away unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them together to the battle of that great day of God Almighty," signifies attestations that their falsities are truths, and the stirring up of all in the whole of that church who are in the same falsities, to attack the truths of the New Church.

 Verse 15. "Behold, I come as a thief; happy is he that is awake and keepeth his garments," signifies the Lord's coming, and heaven then for those who look to Him, and remain steadfast in a life according to His precepts, which are the truths of the Word. "That he may not walk naked, and they see his shame," signifies lest they should be with those who are in no truths, and their infernal loves should appear.

Verse 16. "And he gathered them together into a place called in Hebrew Armageddon," signifies the state of combat from falsities against truths, and the disposition of destroying the New Church, arising from the love of dominion and supereminence.

 Verse 17. "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air," signifies influx into all things together with them. "And there went forth a great voice out of the temple of heaven from the throne, saying, It is done," signifies that it was thus made manifest by the Lord, that all the things of the church were devastated, and that now the Last Judgment is at hand.

Verse 18. "And there were voices, and lightnings and thunders," signifies reasonings, falsifications of truth, and arguments from the falsities of evil. "And there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, such an earthquake, so great," signifies as it were shakings, convulsions, overturnings, and the drawing down from heaven of all the things of the church.

Verse 19. "And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell," signifies that the church as to doctrine was altogether destroyed by them, and so too all the heresies which have emanated from it. "And great Babylon came into remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the wrath of His anger," signifies the destruction also at that time of the dogmas of the Roman Catholic religion (n. 713).

Verse 20. "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found," signifies that there was no longer any truth of faith, nor any good of love.

Verse 21. "And great hail as of the weight of a talent cometh down from heaven upon men," signifies direful and atrocious falsities, by which every truth of the Word and thence of the church was destroyed. "And they blasphemed God because of the plague of hail, for the plague thereof was exceeding great," signifies that because they confirmed such falsities with themselves, they denied truths to such a degree that they could not know them, on account of repugnances arising from their interior falsities and evils.

Harry
 
3  Theology / Apologetics / Re:The Truth About God on: August 07, 2003, 09:32:17 AM
Angelic Man
Weapon: Modalism Theory

Seriously, your idea of Jehovah God descending, and THEN becoming Jesus Christ, without begetting a Son of God, is a clear example of the heretical doctrine of modalism.

Think of the true example of God/Jesus this way:

The fullness of God can be seen as a body.

My hands are quite different from my feet, but they are still me. Just the same, there are differences between God the Father and Jesus Christ, but they are still fully god.

Jesus is still both fully God and fully man (he'd have to be, to pay for all mankind's sin).

The doctrine of three Divine persons, both in past and at the present day, has sprung solely from a failure to understand the Divine Esse.

The unity of God is inmostly inscribed on the mind of every man, since it lies at the center of all that flows from God into the soul of man,and yet it has not descended  into the human understanding, for the reason that the knowledges by which man must ascend to meet God have been lacking.

For everyone must prepare the way for God, that is, must prepare himself for reception.

This is done by means of knowledges. The knowledges that have been lacking, and that enable the understanding to penetrate far enough to see that God is one, and that a second person with the same Divine Esse is not possible.

Jehovah God saided, His glory He would not share with another.I Jehovah will give thee for a covenant to the people, for a light of the nations. I am Jehovah, that is My name, and My glory (Divinity)will I not give to another (Isa. 42:6, . This means Jehovah God the Father will not have another god like unto Himself,with the same Divine Esse.

Harry  

 
4  Theology / Apologetics / Re:The Truth About God on: July 26, 2003, 05:48:18 AM
John 14:6.  "Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

If Jesus is the way, the truth,and the life,than why do Christians approach the Father first, instead of the Son.

Jesus saided,"If any man wishes to deny himself,let him take up the cross and follow Me." He did not say take up the cross and follow the Father, He saided,take up the cross and follow Me.

All prays and worship should go to Our Lord Jesus Christ, because He is the Father in the Human. The Father was always in Him since birth,as His Soul, and taught Him as He grew up and became Man.

What Jesus meant when these word were saided by Him:

"I am come from the Father" (John 8:42) - meaning the Body came forth from the Soul.

"The Son can do nothing of Himself, - but what He seeth the Father do" (John 5:19) - the Body can do nothing of Itself, but what it is directed to do by the Soul.

"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matt. 16: 16) - The Messiah, the Body of the Infinite itself, which alone is Life-in-itself.

"This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3:17) - the Divine Body in which it pleased the Father to dwell while on earth.

"My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28) - the Soul is greater than the Body, since it directs it.

"No Man cometh unto the Father but by Me" (John 14:6) - Just as we cannot know a man's soul except insofar as his body reveals it.

 The only way we can have any idea of the Divine Soul is by means of the Divine Body, which was visible to man.

 "No man hath seen the Father at any time; the only Begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him" (John 1:18).

God gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish..." (John 3:16) This does not mean the Father sent a second person into the world. It means  the Father put on a Human Form,which is the Son of God, and become Man,as in Luke 1,when the angel spoke to Mary, and those who believe this will be saved.

Harry[/b]
5  Theology / Apologetics / Re:The Truth About God on: July 25, 2003, 08:00:40 PM

The Holy Spirit is the Divine Truth and also the Divine Energy and Operation proceeding from the one God in whom is the Divine Trinity, that is, from the Lord God the Savior Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit signifies strictly the Divine truth, also the Word, and in this sense the Lord Himself is the Holy Spirit,because He is the Word.

The Holy Spirit is the Lord's Divine proceedings,which are called operations. The Lord alone teachers and leads man,not a third person. Nothing can go forth from a person except operations.

Harry
6  Theology / Apologetics / Re:The Truth About God on: July 25, 2003, 06:41:58 AM

Jehovah God descended and assumed a Human that He might redeem men and save them. In the Christian churches at this day it is believed that God the Father begat a Son from eternity, and that this Son descended and assumed a Human in order to redeem and save men.

But this is an error, and of itself falls to the ground as soon as it is considered that God the Father is one, and that it is worse than incredible in the sight of reason to say that the one God begat a Son from eternity, and that God the Father, together with the Son and Holy Spirit, each one of whom singly is God, is one God.

This incredible notion is wholly dissipated, like a falling star in midair, when it is shown from the Word that Jehovah God Himself descended and became Man and also Redeemer.

The first statement, that it was Jehovah God Himself who descended and became Man, is made clear in the following passages:
Behold, a virgin shall conceive and shall bear a Son, who shall be called God-with-us (Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:22, 23).

Unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, God, Mighty, Father of Eternity, the Prince of Peace (Isa. 9:6).

  It shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him that He may deliver us; this is Jehovah; we have waited for Him; let us exult and be glad in His salvation (Isa. 25:9).

The voice of one crying in the desert, Prepare ye the way of Jehovah; make level in the wilderness a highway for our God, and all flesh shall see it together (Isa. 40:3, 5).

 Behold, the Lord Jehovah cometh in strength, and His arm shall rule for Him behold, His reward is with Him. He shall feed His flock like a shepherd (Isa. 40:10, 11).

 Jehovah said, Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for lo, I come to dwell in the midst of thee. Then many nations shall cleave to Jehovah in that day (Zech. 2:10, 11).
 
 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and I will give thee for a covenant of the people. I am Jehovah; this is My name; My glory will I not give to another (Isa. 42:6-8).

 Behold, the days come, that I will raise up unto David a righteous Branch and He shall reign as King, and He shall execute judgment and righteousness in the earth, and this is His name, Jehovah our righteousness (Jer. 23:5, 6; 33:15, 16).
 
See also the places where the Lord's coming is called "the day of Jehovah" (as in Isa. 13:6, 9, 13, 22; Ezek. 31:15; Joel 1:15; 2:1, 2, 11; 3:1, 14, 18; Amos 5:13, 18, 20; Zeph. 1:7-18; Zech. 14:1, 4-21; and elsewhere).
  It was Jehovah God Himself who descended and assumed the Human is especially evident in Luke, where it is said:
  Mary said to the angel, How shall this come to pass, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy thing that is born of thee shall be called the Son of God (Luke 1:34, 35).

And in Matthew:
 The angel said to Joseph, the bridegroom of Mary, in a dream, that that which was begotten in her was of the Holy Spirit. And Joseph knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son, and he called His name Jesus (Matt. 1:20, 25).
 
It will be shown in the third chapter of this work that the Divine that goes forth from Jehovah God is what is meant by the Holy Spirit. Who does not know that the offspring has its soul and life from the father, and that the body is from the soul?

Can anything, then, be more plainly declared than that the Lord had His soul and life from Jehovah God; and as the Divine cannot be divided, that the very Divine of the Father was His soul and life?

This is why the Lord so often called Jehovah God His Father, and why Jehovah God called Him His Son.

The human form is offspring to the soul, just as the Son is offspring to the Father,therefore they are one as Soul and Body or Divine and Human in Jesus Christ.

Harry
7  Theology / Apologetics / Re:The Truth About God on: July 23, 2003, 07:09:24 PM
To All,
In every person there is a soul and body. In the Lord the Soul and Body is the Father and Son. The Father and Son or the Divine and Human are one in Jesus Christ.

What rational mind, when it hears that before the creation of the world there were three Divine Persons, called the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, does not say within itself while thinking of them, "What is meant by a Son born from God the Father from eternity?

How could He be born? And what is the Holy Spirit proceeding from God the Father through the Son from eternity?

And how could He proceed and become God by Himself? Or how could a person beget a person from eternity? and both produce a person? Is not a person a person?

How can three Divine persons, in which each is God by himself, be conjoined into one God, otherwise than into one person?

And yet this is contrary to theology, and this to that. How can the Divinity be divided into three Persons, and yet not into three Gods, when yet each Person is God by himself?

How can the Divine essence, which is one, the same, and indivisible, fall into number, hence be either divided or multiplied?

How can three Divine persons be together and take counsel together in a non-extense of space, such as was before the world was created?

How, from Jehovah God, who is One, and thence Sole, Infinite, Immense, Eternal, and Omnipotent, could there be produced three equals to Himself?

How can a Trinity of persons be conceived of in the Unity of God, and the Unity of God in a Trinity of persons?

Besides the idea of plurality destroys the idea of unity, and vice versa. Perhaps it would have been possible for the Greeks and Romans also to unite all their gods into one, which were many, by identity only of essence."

The rational mind, in revolving and reflecting upon a Trinity of persons in the Divinity from eternity, might also consider of what use was it that a Son was born, and that the Holy Spirit went forth from the Father through the Son before the world was created?

Was there a use for three to hold council on how the universe should be created? And thus that three should create it? When yet the universe was created by the one God?

Neither was there occasion that the Son should redeem, when yet redemption was effected after the world was created, in the fulness of time; nor that the Holy Spirit should sanctify, because as yet there was no man to be sanctified.

Therefore if there were those uses in God's idea, still they were not [realized] before the creation of the world, but after it actually existed; from which it follows, that the Trinity from eternity was not a real Trinity, but ideal, and still more so is a Trinity of persons.

4. Who in the church, while reading the Athanasian Creed, is able to understand this? That it is of the Christian verity, that each Person by Himself is God, and yet that it is not lawful by the Catholic religion to account them three Gods?

Is not religion thus to him something other than truth? and that in truth three Persons are three Gods, but that from religion they are one God?

5.A trinity of persons in the Divinity before the world was created, did not come into the mind of any one from the time of Adam down to the advent of the Lord, as is clear from the Word of the Old Testament, and from histories concerning the religion of the ancients.

Neither did it come into the mind of the Apostles, as is evident from their writings in the Word.

Neither did it come into the mind of any one in the Apostolic Church, which was before the Council of Nice, as appears from the Apostles' Creed, in which no Son from eternity is mentioned, but a Son born from the Virgin Mary.

A Trinity of persons from eternity is not only above reason, but opposed to it. It is against reason that three persons created the universe.

That there were three persons, and each one is God to himself, and not three Gods but one, and then three persons and not one Person.

Will not the New Church about to come call this age of the old church benighted or barbarous, when they worshiped three Gods? Similarly irrational are those things which are derived from that Trinity.

A Trinity of persons in the Divinity from eternity was first taught by the Nicene Council, as appears from the two Creeds, the Nicene and the Athanasian. And afterwards it was received by the churches as the principal dogma, and as the head of the doctrines, after that time even to the present day.

There were two reasons why that Trinity was given forth by the Council of Nice; the first was, that they knew not how otherwise to dissipate the scandals of Arius, who denied the Divinity of the Lord; the other, because they did not understand what is written by the evangelist John (Chap. 1: 1, 2, 10, 14; 16. 28; 17. 5).

From myself: "And the Word was with God". With God, means, in God. For truth is in good, and good is in truth. Divine Truth and Divine Good are God's Divine Essence.

Harry  
8  Theology / Apologetics / Re:The Truth About God on: July 21, 2003, 08:35:52 AM

For those who are willing to learn.

The entire Holy Scripture, and all the doctrines therefrom of the churches in the Christian world, teach that there is a God and that He is one.

The entire Holy Scripture teaches that there is a God, because in its inmosts it is nothing but God, that is, it is nothing but the Divine that goes forth from God; for it was dictated by God.

From God nothing can go forth except what is God and is called Divine. This the Holy Scripture is in its inmosts.

But in its derivatives, which are below and from these inmosts, the Holy Scripture is adapted to the perception of angels and men.

The Divine is likewise in these derivatives, but in another form, in which it is called the celestial, spiritual, and natural Divine.

These are simply the draperies of God; for God Himself, such as He is in the inmosts of the Word, cannot be seen by any creature.

 For He said to Moses, when Moses prayed that he might see the glory of Jehovah, that no one can see God and live.

This is equally true of the inmosts of the Word, where God is in His very Being and Essence.

[2] Nevertheless, the Divine, which forms the inmost and is draped by things adapted to the perceptions of angels and men, beams forth like light through crystalline forms, although variously in accordance with the state of mind that man has formed for himself, either from God or from himself.

Before everyone who has formed the state of his mind from God the Holy Scripture stands like a mirror wherein he sees God, but everyone in his own way.

This mirror is made up of those truths that man learns from the Word, and that he appropriates by living in accordance with them.

From all this it is evident, in the first place, that the Holy Scripture is the fullness of God.

[3] That the Holy Scripture teaches not only that there is a God, but also that God is one,not three, can be seen from the truths which, as before stated, compose that mirror, in that they form a coherent whole and make it impossible for man to think of God except as one.

 In consequence of this, every person whose reason is imbued with any sanctity from the Word knows, as if from himself, that God is one, and feels it to be a sort of insanity to say that there are more.

The angels are unable to open their lips to utter the word "gods or three persons" for the heavenly aura in which they live resists it.

That God is one the Holy Scripture teaches, not only thus universally, as has been said, but also in many particular passages, as in the following:
 Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah (Deut. 6:4; also Mark 12:29).

Surely God is in thee, and beside Me there is no god (Isa. 45:14).

Am not I Jehovah? and there is no god besides me? (Isa. 45:21).
 
I am Jehovah thy God and thou shalt acknowledge no god beside Me (Hosea 13:4).

Thus saith Jehovah, the king of Israel, I am the First and the Last, and beside Me there is no god (Isa. 44:6).
 
 In that day Jehovah shall be king over all the earth; in that day Jehovah shall be one and His name one (Zech. 14:9).

From myself: The words in the Old Testament "In That Day" means a prophecy of Jehovah God Messiah's advent into this world.

Two times Jehovah God saided that He was the First and the Last, in Isa 44:6 and again in Revelation. One God saided it,not two.
Harry
 
9  Theology / Apologetics / Re:After the "Mark of the Beast, Christ comes... on: July 13, 2003, 08:35:24 PM

Jer, His writings always starts with,"And the word of Jehovah came unto me saying."

 Go ye out of the midst of Babel, O my people, deliver everyone his soul from the wrath of the anger of Jehovah, lest your heart become soft, and ye fear for the report (Jer. 51:45-46).

Flee from the midst of Babel, and deliver everyone his soul, lest ye be cut off for her iniquity (Jer. 51:6).

 Forsake Babel, and let us go everyone into his own land, for her judgment hath reached to the heavens, and hath lifted itself up even to the clouds (Jer. 51:9).

 Go ye out of Babel, flee from the Chaldeans with the voice of singing; declare this and make it to be heard; utter it even to the extremity of the earth; say ye, Jehovah redeems (Isa. 48:20-21; Jer. 50:Cool.

Harry


 

10  Theology / Apologetics / Re:After the "Mark of the Beast, Christ comes... on: July 13, 2003, 08:12:25 PM


Genesis 11
And Jehovah came down. That this signifies judgment upon them, is evident from what has gone before and from what follows, and also from the signification of "coming down," when predicated of Jehovah; from what has gone before, in that the subject has been the building of the city and tower of Babel.

From what follows, in that the subject is the confusion of lips and of dispersion; from the signification of "coming down," when predicated of Jehovah, in that this is said when judgment takes place.

Jehovah or the Lord is everywhere present and knows all things from eternity; and therefore it cannot be said of Him that He came down to see, except in the literal sense, where it is so said according to the appearances with man.

But in the internal sense it is not so, for in this sense the subject is presented as it is in itself, and not according to the appearances; so that in the passage before us "to come down to see" signifies judgment.
 
Judgment is predicated of a state when evil has reached its highest, or, as it is termed in the Word, when it is "consummated," or when "iniquity is consummated."

For the case herein is that all evil has its limits as far as which it is permitted to go, but when it goes beyond these limits, it incurs the penalty of the evil.

This is so both in particular and in general. The punishment of evil is what is then called a judgment.

And because it appears at first as if the Lord did not see or observe that the evil exists-for when a man does evil without punishment, he supposes that the Lord troubles not Himself about the matter, but when he undergoes the penalty he begins to think that the Lord sees, and even that the Lord inflicts the punishment-it is therefore said, in accordance with these appearances, that Jehovah came down to see.
 
To "come down" is predicated of Jehovah, because "the highest" is predicated of Him, that is, He is said to be in the highest, and this too according to the appearance, for He is not in things highest but in things inmost, and this is the reason why in the Word what is highest and what is inmost have the same signification.

On the other hand, judgment or the penalty of evil takes place in lower and lowest things.

This explains why He is said to "come down;" as also in David:
 O Jehovah, bow Thy heavens and come down; touch the mountains and they shall smoke; cast forth lightning and scatter them (Ps. 144:5-6),
where the punishment of evil, or judgment, is signified.

In Isaiah:
Jehovah of Armies shall come down to fight upon Mount Zion, and upon the hill thereof (Isa. 31:4).

And again:
O that Thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at Thy presence (Isa. 64:1).
 
Here in like manner to "come down" denotes the penalty, or judgment, inflicted upon evil. In Micah:
Jehovah cometh forth out of His place, and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth, and the mountains shall be molten under Him (Micah 1:3-4).

Genesis 11:
Verse 7 Come, let us go down, and let us there confound their lip so that they do not hear each man the lip of his companion.
 
'Come, let us go down' means that judgement took place in this manner. 'And let us there confound their lip' means that nobody has the truth of doctrine. 'So that they do not hear each man the lip of his companion' means that all are at variance with one another.

That 'come, let us go down' means that judgement took place in this manner is clear from what has been stated above at verse 5 about the meaning of 'going down'.

The reason the plural is used -'let us go down and let us confound their lips'- is that the execution of judgement is meant, which is carried out by means of spirits, and in fact by evil spirits.
 
Harry
 
 
11  Theology / Apologetics / Re:After the "Mark of the Beast, Christ comes... on: July 13, 2003, 07:30:07 PM


At creation, as recorded in the book of Genesis, God saided,"Let us make man in our image after our likeness."Some have been disturbed by these wording,which suggest that more than one Creators were at work

The Hebrew word for God is Elohim, which is a plural construction. It is a "plural of eminence" used for the one God, but only when the Divine Truth is referred to, for truth displays the manifold powers and aspects of God.

In the spiritual sense the six days of creation describe the process of man's regeneration.

The name Elohim is used to indicate that in regenerating man the one God aworks through innumerable agencies,and that it is through the ministry of angels that He leads,awaken, governs,teachers and disposes man's spiritual life and bestows on him the truly human qualities which are meant by the image and likeness of God.

Harry
12  Theology / Apologetics / Re:After the "Mark of the Beast, Christ comes... on: July 13, 2003, 06:42:01 AM
Pardon my ignorance, but who is Swedenborg, and why should anyone believe what it has to say, over what the scriptures speak of plainly??

If this guy has anything to do with the Lutheran church, say no more...........


Petro
Good for you....as the men above are twisting scripture around something awful. The scriptures have top priority, over any man made sayings.
  Besides...the Lutheran church is really an offshoot of the Catholic church.


All churches today are false, because they teach the doctrine of three Divine Persons,and faith without good works. God is one,in Person and in Essence.

Jehovah God came into the world and took on human form in order to put Himself into the power of subjugating the hells and of reducing to order all things both in the heavens and on earth.This was the work of redemption.

This humanity He put on over His prior humanity. The humanity that He put on in the world over His prior humanity was like the humanity of a person in the world, each being, however, Divine and  infinitely surpassing the finite humanity of angels and people.

Moreover, because He fully glorified His natural humanity even to the lasts of it, therefore He rose again with the whole body as no other person does.

The passion of the cross was to glorified His Human, and uniting it with His Divinity, so that the Divine and Human in Him become one. The cross was not redemption.

This was redemption:
By assuming this humanity Jehovah God,who was the Messiah in the Human, took on the limitless Divine power not only of subjugating the hells and reducing the heavens to order, but also of keeping the hells subjugated to eternity and saving humankind.

Harry
13  Theology / Apologetics / Re:The Truth About God on: July 11, 2003, 03:30:22 PM
From Swedenborg's writings:
 There are many reasons why God could redeem men, that is, could deliver them from damnation and hell, only by means of an assumed Human; which reasons shall be set forth in the following pages.

 Redemption consisted in subjugating the hells, restoring the heavens to order, and after this reestablishing a New Church; and this redemption God with His omnipotence could effect only by means of the Human.

It is only by means of an arm that one can work-in the Word (Isa. 40:10; 53:1) this Human of the Lord is called "the arm of Jehovah"-or as one can attack a fortified town and destroy the temples of idols therein only by means of intervening agencies.

 That it was by means of His Human that God had omnipotence in this Divine work, is also evident from the Word.

 For in no other way would it be possible for God who is in the inmost and thus in the purest things, to pass over to outmost things, in which the hells are, and in which the men of that time were, just as the soul can do nothing without a body, or as no one can conquer an enemy without coming in sight of him, or approaching and getting near to him with proper equipments, such as spears, shields, or muskets.

 It was as impossible for God to effect redemption without the Human as it would be for men to conquer the Indies without transporting soldiers there by means of ships, or as it would be to make trees grow by heat and light if the air through which these pass, or the soil from which the trees spring, had never been created; as impossible, in fact, as to catch fish by spreading nets in the air instead of in the water.

 For it is impossible for Jehovah, such as He is in Himself, by His omnipotence to get in contact with any devil in hell or any devil upon the earth, and restrain him and his fury and tame his violence, unless He be in things last as He is in things first.

 Because He is in things last in His Human, He is called in the Word "the First and the Last," "the Alpha and the Omega," "the Beginning and the End."

From myself: God's Divine Omnipotence through the Human is His right hand.


Harry
 
14  Theology / Apologetics / Re:After the "Mark of the Beast, Christ comes... on: July 11, 2003, 03:00:24 PM
Eccl. 1:1-9 and Eccl 3:15 is in the Catholic Bible, because I have one. It was my grandmother's.Swedenborg's writings comes from the Lord through him, just like He spoke through the Prophets. Swedenborg add nothing to the Word.His writings helps us to better understand the Bible.

I understand that all wisdom is from God.Those who think other wise are eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, as in Genesis.God works through people.It is not for us to tell God who to choose.

Harry

15  Theology / Apologetics / Re:After the "Mark of the Beast, Christ comes... on: July 11, 2003, 09:20:46 AM

To All,
The writings in the book of Revelation has nothing to do with nations and people. It has something to do with heaven and the church. The fall of the Catholic and the Protestant Church is in the book of Revelation.

Harry
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5



More From ChristiansUnite...    About Us | Privacy Policy | | ChristiansUnite.com Site Map | Statement of Beliefs



Copyright © 1999-2019 ChristiansUnite.com. All rights reserved.
Please send your questions, comments, or bug reports to the

Powered by SMF 1.1 RC2 | SMF © 2001-2005, Lewis Media