[Swedenborg]

Pardon my ignorance, but who is Swedenborg, and why should anyone believe what it has to say, over what the scriptures speak of plainly??

If this guy has anything to do with the Lutheran church, say no more...........
Petro

Petro
Emanuel Swedenborg
January 29, 1688 - March 29, 1772

1688  Born in Stockholm, Sweden, on January 29.  
1699-1709  Attended Uppsala University.  
1710-1715  First journey abroad, to England and the Continent.  
1716  First publications by Swedenborg in the magazine Daedalus.  
1716  Appointed Assessor in the Royal College of Mines.  
1718  Ennoblement of Swedberg family with name changed to Swedenborg. Assumption by Swedenborg of seat in House of Nobles of Swedish Diet.  

1720  Publication of Swedenborg's first book, a philosophic work titled Principles of Chemistry.  

1729-1734  Writing and publication of his most important philosophical works in three volumes, titled Philosophical and Mineralogical Works.
 
1735-1744  Period of intensive study, writing, and publication on the nature of human existence, particularly as regards the concept of the soul.
 
1743-1744  First transcendent experiences, visions or dreams, in Holland and England.
 
1745  "Call" to become a revelator, London, England.  
1747  Resignation from the Swedish Board of Mines to allow time for theological writing.  
1747-1758  Writing and publication of the twelve-volume Arcana Coelestia, Swedenborg's first major theological work.
 
1759-1761  Incidents of the Stockholm fire, the Dutch ambassador's receipt, and the Queen's secret illustrating Swedenborg's clairvoyance.
 
1769-1771  Heresy trial at Gothenburg, Sweden, involving state church accusations against Swedenborg's theology.
 
1771-1772  Publication of the two-volume True Christian Religion in Amsterdam, Holland, his last major theological work.  

1772  Death in London, England, at age 84, on March 29.  

From myself:
Swedenborg didn't start his own church. It was started after his death.

He wasn't happy with his first religion,and so was I. I use to be a Catholic. I agree with the Catholics on faith and good works, but not with their doctrine on three Divine persons. Good works is a must for salvation.

Many Protestants are misunderstanding Paul's writings on good works in Romans.

 The church I belong to is the New Church. Its doctrine is base on the writing of Swedenborg. The writings has nothing to do with the Lutheran church. We don't shun good works like their do.

Harry

[signifies that they could not endure truths]

Continue

Verse 11. "And they gnawed their tongues for distress," signifies that they could not endure truths. "And they blasphemed the God of heaven for their distresses and for their sores," signifies that they could not acknowledge the Lord alone to be the God of heaven and earth on account of resistance from interior falsities and evils. "And repented not of their works," signifies that though instructed from the Word, they still do not recede from falsities of faith and the evils of life thence.

 Verse 12. "And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates," signifies influx into their interior reasonings, by which they confirm justification by faith alone. "And the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings from the rising of the sun might be prepared," signifies that the falsities of their reasonings were removed with those who are in truths from good from the Lord, and are to be introduced into the New Church.

Verse 13. "And I saw out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet," signifies the perception that from a theology founded upon the doctrine of the Trinity of Persons in the Divinity, and upon the doctrine of justification by faith alone without the works of the law. "Three unclean spirits like frogs," signifies that there arose mere reasonings and lusts of falsifying truths.

Verse 14. "For they are spirits of demons," signifies that they were the lusts of falsifying truths and of reasoning from falsities. "Doing signs, to go away unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them together to the battle of that great day of God Almighty,"signifies attestations that their falsities are truths, and the stirring up of all in the whole of that church who are in the same falsities, to attack the truths of the New Church.
 

Verse 15. "Behold, I come as a thief; happy is he that is awake and keepeth his garments," signifies the Lord's coming, and heaven then for those who look to Him, and remain steadfast in a life according to His precepts, which are the truths of the Word. "That he may not walk naked, and they see his shame," signifies lest they should be with those who are in no truths, and their infernal loves should appear.

Verse 16. "And he gathered them together into a place called in Hebrew Armageddon," signifies the state of combat from falsities against truths, and the disposition of destroying the New Church, arising from the love of dominion and supereminence.

Verse 17. "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air," signifies influx into all things together with them. "And there went forth a great voice out of the temple of heaven from the throne, saying, It is done," signifies that it was made manifest by the Lord, that all the things of the church were devastated, and that now the Last Judgment is at hand.

Verse 18. "And there were voices, and lightnings and thunders," signifies reasonings, falsifications of truth, and arguments from the falsities of evil. "And there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, such an earthquake, so great," signifies as it were shakings, convulsions, overturnings, and the drawing down from heaven of all the things of the church.

Verse 19. "And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell," signifies that the church as to doctrine was altogether destroyed by them, and so too all the heresies which have emanated from it. "And great Babylon came into remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the wrath of His anger," signifies the destruction also at that time of the dogmas of the Roman Catholic religion.

 Verse 20. "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found," signifies that there was no longer any truth of faith, nor any good of love.

Verse 21. "And great hail as of the weight of a talent cometh down from heaven upon men," signifies direful and atrocious falsities, by which every truth of the Word and thence of the church was destroyed. "And they blasphemed God because of the plague of hail, for the plague thereof was exceeding great," signifies that because they confirmed such falsities with themselves, they denied truths to such a degree that they could not know them, on account of repugnances arising from their interior falsities and evils.

Harry

[signifies influx from the Lord from the inmost of heaven into the church of the Reformed, where they are who are in faith separated from charity as to doctrine and as to life.]

Rev.16
 Verse 1. "And I heard a great voice out of the temple, saying to the seven angels, Go, and pour out the vials of the anger of God into the earth," signifies influx from the Lord from the inmost of heaven into the church of the Reformed, where they are who are in faith separated from charity as to doctrine and as to life.

Verse 2. "And the first went forth, and poured out his vial on the earth," signifies into those who are in the interiors of the church of the Reformed, and study the doctrine of justification by faith alone, and are called the clergy. "And there came an evil and noxious sore," signifies interior evils and falsities destructive of all good and truth in the church. "Upon the men that had the mark of the beast, and that adore his image," signifies in those who live faith alone and receive the doctrine of it.

Verse 3. "And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea" signifies influx among those there who are in its externals, and in that faith, and are called the laity. "And it became blood as of one dead, and every living soul died in the sea," signifies infernal falsity with them, by which every truth of the Word and thence of the church and of faith was extinguished.

Verse 4. "And the third angel poured out his vial into the rivers and the fountains of waters," signifies influx into the understanding of the Word with them. "And they became blood," signifies the truths of the Word falsified.

Verse 5. "And I heard the angel of the waters saying," signifies the Divine truth of the Word. "Thou art just, O Lord, who art, and who wast, and art holy, because Thou hast judged these things," signifies that this is from the Divine Providence of the Lord, who is and who was the Word, which otherwise would be profaned.

 Verse 6. "Because they have poured out the blood of saints and prophets," signifies that this is for the reason, that this alone, that faith alone without the works of the law saves, being received, perverts all doctrinal truths from the Word. "And Thou hast given them blood to drink, for they are worthy," signifies that it was permitted those who have confirmed themselves in faith alone in doctrine and in life, to falsify the truths of the Word, and to imbue their life from falsified things.

 Verse 7. "And I heard another out of the altar, saying, Yea, O Lord God Almighty, true and just are Thy judgments," signifies the Divine good of the Word confirming that Divine truth.

 Verse 8. "And the fourth angel poured out his vial into the sun," signifies influx into their love. "And it was given him to scorch men with fire," signifies that love to the Lord tortured them, because they were in the lusts of evils from the delight of their love.

Verse 9. "And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who hath authority over these plagues," signifies that on account of the delight of the love of self arising from vehement lusts of evils they did not acknowledge the Divinity of the Lord's Human, from which nevertheless flows all good of love and truth of faith. "And they repented not to give Him glory," signifies that on that account they cannot receive with any faith that the Lord is the God of heaven and earth as to His Human also, although the Word teaches it.

Verse 10. "And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the throne of the beast,"  signifies influx into their faith. "And his kingdom (church) became dark," signifies that nothing but falsities appeared.

To be continue


 

[From Swedenborg's writings:Rev.13:11. And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, signifies the clergy in the churches of the Reformed who are in the doctrine and faith of the dragon concerning God and salvation. What the faith of the dragon is and its quality, may be seen above. That it is the laity that are meant by "the beast which came up out of the sea," and the clergy by "the beast which came up out of the earth," because by "the sea" is signified the external of the church, and by "the earth" its internal.The laity are in the externals of the doctrine of the church, and the clergy are in its internals. That the clergy are now described, appears from all the particulars which follow, when understood in the spiritual sense; and manifestly from this, that this beast is also called "the false prophet" (Rev. 16:13; 19:20; 20:10). Especially from the following passage: And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that did signs before him, by which he seduced them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that adored his image (Rev. 19:20). That this beast did signs before the other, by which he seduced them, is said in this chapter in these words: And he doeth great signs, and he seduceth them that dwell on the earth, on account of the signs which it was given him to do before the beast, saying to them to make an image to the beast, and adore it (Rev. 13:13-15). Harry]

From Swedenborg's writings:

Rev.13:11.
And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, signifies the clergy in the churches of the Reformed who are in the doctrine and faith of the dragon concerning God and salvation.

What the faith of the dragon is and its quality, may be seen above.

That it is the laity that are meant by "the beast which came up out of the sea," and the clergy by "the beast which came up out of the earth," because by "the sea" is signified the external of the church, and by "the earth" its internal.

The laity are in the externals of the doctrine of the church, and the clergy are in its internals.

That the clergy are now described, appears from all the particulars which follow, when understood in the spiritual sense; and manifestly from this, that this beast is also called "the false prophet" (Rev. 16:13; 19:20; 20:10).

Especially from the following passage:
 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that did signs before him, by which he seduced them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that adored his image (Rev. 19:20).

That this beast did signs before the other, by which he seduced them, is said in this chapter in these words:
    And he doeth great signs, and he seduceth them that dwell on the earth, on account of the signs which it was given him to do before the beast, saying to them to make an image to the beast, and adore it (Rev. 13:13-15).

Harry
 

[From Swedenborg:That the whole Christian theology at this day is founded on an idea of three Gods, is evident from the doctrine of justification, which is the head of the doctrines of the church with Christians, both among Roman Catholics and Protestants. That doctrine sets forth that God the Father sent His Son to redeem and save men, and give the Holy Spirit to operate the same.Every man who hears, reads, or repeats this, cannot but in his thought, that is, in his idea, divide God into three, and perceive that one God sent another, and operates by a third. That the same thought of a Divine Trinity distinguished into three Persons, each whereof is God, is continued throughout the rest of the doctrinals of the present church, as from a head into its body, will be demonstrated in its proper place. In the meantime consult what has been premised concerning justification, consult theology in general and in particular, and at the same time, consult yourself, while listening to preachings in temples, or while praying at home, whether you have any other perception and thought thence resulting than of three Gods,especially while you are praying or singing first to one, and then to the other two separately, as is often done. Hence is established the truth of the proposition, that the whole theology in the Christian world at this day, is founded on an idea of three Gods.Harry]

From Swedenborg:
That the whole Christian theology at this day is founded on an idea of three Gods, is evident from the doctrine of justification, which is the head of the doctrines of the church with Christians, both among Roman Catholics and Protestants.

 That doctrine sets forth that God the Father sent His Son to redeem and save men, and give the Holy Spirit to operate the same.

Every man who hears, reads, or repeats this, cannot but in his thought, that is, in his idea, divide God into three, and perceive that one God sent another, and operates by a third.

That the same thought of a Divine Trinity distinguished into three Persons, each whereof is God, is continued throughout the rest of the doctrinals of the present church, as from a head into its body, will be demonstrated in its proper place.

In the meantime consult what has been premised concerning justification, consult theology in general and in particular, and at the same time, consult yourself, while listening to preachings in temples, or while praying at home, whether you have any other perception and thought thence resulting than of three Gods,especially while you are praying or singing first to one, and then to the other two separately, as is often done.

Hence is established the truth of the proposition, that the whole theology in the Christian world at this day, is founded on an idea of three Gods.

Harry
 

[From Swedenborg: There are many reasons, as will be revealed in due course in the following pages, why Jehovah God could not redeem mankind, that is, rescue people from hell and damnation, except by taking upon Himself human form. For redemption was the conquest of the hells and the ordering of the heavens, followed by the establishment of a church. This is something that God in His omnipotence could not do except through the Human, just as no one can work unless he has an arm. His Human is actually called in the Word 'Jehovah's arm' (Isa. 40:10; 53:1). From myself: The Human whereby Jehovah God assumed in the world in order to carry out redemption is His right hand.From Swedenborg:Or just as no one can attack a fortified city and destroy the shrines of idols it contains, unless he has adequate means at his disposal. It is plain too from the Word that in this Divine task God's omnipotence was exercised through His Human. For God, who dwells in the inmost and thus purest parts, can in no other way penetrate to the outermost, in which the hells are, and so too were the people of that time; as, for comparison, the soul can do nothing without the body. No one can defeat an enemy without coming in sight of them, or approaching and meeting them with some sort of weapons, such as pikes, shields or muskets. To effect redemption without the Human was as impossible for God as it is for a man to conquer the Indies without ferrying an army there in ships, or as making trees grow solely by supplying heat and light, without creating air to be the medium of their transmission or soil out of which they can grow. Even better, it is as impossible as casting nets in the air to catch fish there, instead of in water. For Jehovah, such as He is in Himself, cannot by His omnipotence lay a finger upon any devil in hell, or any devil on earth, and restrain him and his fury, or tame his violence, unless He is present in last things as He is in first things. He is present in last things in His Human, which is why He is called in the Word the First and the Last, Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. Harry]

From Swedenborg:
 There are many reasons, as will be revealed in due course in the following pages, why Jehovah God could not redeem mankind, that is, rescue people from hell and damnation, except by taking upon Himself human form.

For redemption was the conquest of the hells and the ordering of the heavens, followed by the establishment of a church.

 This is something that God in His omnipotence could not do except through the Human, just as no one can work unless he has an arm. His Human is actually called in the Word 'Jehovah's arm' (Isa. 40:10; 53:1).

From myself: The Human whereby Jehovah God assumed in the world in order to carry out redemption is His right hand.

From Swedenborg:
Or just as no one can attack a fortified city and destroy the shrines of idols it contains, unless he has adequate means at his disposal.

It is plain too from the Word that in this Divine task God's omnipotence was exercised through His Human.

For God, who dwells in the inmost and thus purest parts, can in no other way penetrate to the outermost, in which the hells are, and so too were the people of that time; as, for comparison, the soul can do nothing without the body.

No one can defeat an enemy without coming in sight of them, or approaching and meeting them with some sort of weapons, such as pikes, shields or muskets.

 To effect redemption without the Human was as impossible for God as it is for a man to conquer the Indies without ferrying an army there in ships, or as making trees grow solely by supplying heat and light, without creating air to be the medium of their transmission or soil out of which they can grow.

Even better, it is as impossible as casting nets in the air to catch fish there, instead of in water.

 For Jehovah, such as He is in Himself, cannot by His omnipotence lay a finger upon any devil in hell, or any devil on earth, and restrain him and his fury, or tame his violence, unless He is present in last things as He is in first things.

He is present in last things in His Human, which is why He is called in the Word the First and the Last, Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.

Harry
 

[From Swedenborg:Jehovah God assumed the Human in accordance with His Divine Order. In the section that treats of the Divine omnipotence and omniscience it has been shown that God introduced order into the universe and into each and all things of it at the time of their creation, and therefore His omnipotence in the universe and in each and all things of it, proceeds and operates in accordance with the laws of His order. Since, then, it was Jehovah God who descended, and since (as is there shown) He is Order itself, it was necessary, if He was to become man actually, that He should be conceived, carried in the womb, born, educated, acquire knowledges gradually, and thereby be introduced into intelligence and wisdom. In respect to His Human He was, for this reason, an infant like other infants, a boy like other boys, and so on.The only difference that this development was accomplished in Him more quickly, more fully, and more perfectly than in others. That this development was in accordance with order is evident from these words in Luke: And the child Jesus grew and waxed strong in spirit. And Jesus advanced in wisdom, and in the stages of life, and in favor with God and man (Luke 2:40, 52). That this was done more quickly, more fully, and more perfectly than with others is evident from what is said of Him in the same Gospel, that When He was twelve years old He sat in the temple in the midst of the doctors and taught them and that all that heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers (Luke 2:46, 47; and afterwards, 4:16-22, 32). This took place because Divine order requires that man should prepare himself for the reception of God; and in proportion as he prepares himself, God enters into him as into His dwelling-place and home; and this preparation is effected by means of knowledges respecting God and the spiritual things pertaining to the church, and by means of intelligence and wisdom. For it is a law of order that in proportion as man approaches and gets near to God (which he must do wholly as if of himself) does God approach and get near to man, and conjoin Himself with man in man's interiors.Harry]

From Swedenborg:
Jehovah God assumed the Human in accordance with His Divine Order.

In the section that treats of the Divine omnipotence and omniscience it has been shown that God introduced order into the universe and into each and all things of it at the time of their creation, and therefore His omnipotence in the universe and in each and all things of it, proceeds and operates in accordance with the laws of His order.

 Since, then, it was Jehovah God who descended, and since (as is there shown) He is Order itself, it was necessary, if He was to become man actually, that He should be conceived, carried in the womb, born, educated, acquire knowledges gradually, and thereby be introduced into intelligence and wisdom.

In respect to His Human He was, for this reason, an infant like other infants, a boy like other boys, and so on.The only difference that this development was accomplished in Him more quickly, more fully, and more perfectly than in others.

That this development was in accordance with order is evident from these words in Luke:
 And the child Jesus grew and waxed strong in spirit. And Jesus advanced in wisdom, and in the stages of life, and in favor with God and man (Luke 2:40, 52).

That this was done more quickly, more fully, and more perfectly than with others is evident from what is said of Him in the same Gospel, that
     When He was twelve years old He sat in the temple in the midst of the doctors and taught them and that all that heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers (Luke 2:46, 47; and afterwards, 4:16-22, 32).

This took place because Divine order requires that man should prepare himself for the reception of God; and in proportion as he prepares himself, God enters into him as into His dwelling-place and home; and this preparation is effected by means of knowledges respecting God and the spiritual things pertaining to the church, and by means of intelligence and wisdom.

For it is a law of order that in proportion as man approaches and gets near to God (which he must do wholly as if of himself) does God approach and get near to man, and conjoin Himself with man in man's interiors.

Harry

[Our Lord Jesus Christ is the only Lord and God of heaven and earth. All power is His.Harry]

Our Lord Jesus Christ is the only Lord and God of heaven and earth. All power is His.

Harry

Is there a question  

I'm not sure what you mean. You want me to know if I am asking a question? I read my main post, the one I started this topic with and it has no questions, but I am willing read  different church's belief in repentance.

These Christian forums were set up so the person may asks questions about the forums church's doctrine. They don't want people coming here and telling them what to believe.

It's up to people here if they want to believe or not. only the Lord converts.

Jesus commanded His disciples to go and preach repentance. He didn't say to stay in one room and led the people come to you. He saided go to the people, the Jews and preach. That's why I coming here.

If I created my own church forum, will you go to it? Your dam right you won't.

I asked a Catholic one time if believe your catechism were true than why don't you go the Protestant forums and teach.

I post Swedenborg on Catholic forums and Protestant forums. Like I mention above, only the Lord converts,not me.

The Lord knows who is going to believe what I post here. Not every Protestant is against good works, repentance and charity.

There are many Protestants who are against doing evil because it is against the Lord, but there are many who believe that the Lord pays no attention to their behavior, and that they will go to heaven no matter what they are,angel or devil. As James wrote,"The devil believes also.

As the body without the spirit is dead, so is Faith without good works is dead also, written by James.

Harry[/b]

Harry,

The natural man, cannot do spiritual good at all, unless he is first born of the spiritual incorruptible seed.
 
The Word of God.

Anyhow, how did you mean to tie this to your caption, of repentance??


Blessings,

Petro

Petro,
This means no one can do good works until they repent first.
Doing good works without doing repentance first is done from self and not from the Lord.

The person must look to the Lord and shun evil, because they are sins. This must be done before good works can be done.

Harry
OkHarry1@Juno.com

[To All,Consequently, the first of charity is to look to the Lord and shun evils because they are sins. Every good that a man does to the neighbor for the sake of the neighbor, or for the sake of truth and good and for the reason that it is according to the Word, or for the sake of religion and thus for the sake of God, which is therefore from a spiritual love or affection, is called a good of charity, or a good work. So far as this is derived from the man it is not good, but so far as it is from the Lord through the man. The Lord does good to everyone chiefly through others, but yet in such a manner that a man scarcely knows but that it is from himself. He therefore frequently moves the wicked to do good to others; but it is from an affection of the love of self and the world. This good, indeed, is of the Lord, or from the Lord; but the man is not rewarded for it. But if a man does good not from a merely natural, but from a spiritual love or affection, he is rewarded. His reward is the heavenly delight of that love and affection, in that it endures to eternity; and this is in proportion as he does not do it from himself, that is, in proportion as he believes that all good is from the Lord, and does not place merit in it. Harry]

To All,
Consequently, the first of charity is to look to the Lord and shun evils because they are sins. Every good that a man does to the neighbor for the sake of the neighbor, or for the sake of truth and good and for the reason that it is according to the Word, or for the sake of religion and thus for the sake of God, which is therefore from a spiritual love or affection, is called a good of charity, or a good work. So far as this is derived from the man it is not good, but so far as it is from the Lord through the man.

The Lord does good to everyone chiefly through others, but yet in such a manner that a man scarcely knows but that it is from himself.

He therefore frequently moves the wicked to do good to others; but it is from an affection of the love of self and the world.

 This good, indeed, is of the Lord, or from the Lord; but the man is not rewarded for it. But if a man does good not from a merely natural, but from a spiritual love or affection, he is rewarded.

His reward is the heavenly delight of that love and affection, in that it endures to eternity; and this is in proportion as he does not do it from himself, that is, in proportion as he believes that all good is from the Lord, and does not place merit in it.

Harry
 

[This is from Swedenborg. While he was in the spiritual world the angels read his mind and saw that he was thinking same the way you think about the Holy Trinity:The angels perceived in my thought those ideas of God that prevail in the Christian Church respecting a trinity of persons in unity and a unity of persons in a trinity. Also respecting a birth of the Son of God from eternity,and they said, "What is in your thoughts? Are you not thinking from natural light, which is not in accord with our spiritual light? Unless, therefore, you dismiss these ideas from your thoughts or else we will shut up heaven against you and depart." But I said, "Enter, I pray you, more deeply into my thought, and you will see, perhaps, that there is an agreement between us." This they did; and they saw that by three persons I understood three Divine attributes going forth, Creation, Redemption, and Regeneration, and that these are attributes of one God. From myself: I had post this before that one God is the Creator, Redeemer and Regenerator. It is the same attributes of one God.Also, that by the birth of the Son of God from eternity I understood His birth foreseen from eternity and provided in time; (also that to think of the Son born of God from eternity would, to me, be not above nature and reason but contrary to nature and reason.While to think of the Son born of God in time through the virgin Mary as the only Son of God, and the only-begotten, is very different; and to believe otherwise than this would be a monstrous error. I then told them that the source of my natural thought about a trinity and unity of persons, and the birth of a Son of God from eternity, was the doctrine of faith in the church which has its name from Athanasius. Then the angels said, "Very well," and asked me to say from them that only those who approach the very God of heaven and earth can enter heaven, because heaven is heaven from that only God, and that this God is Jesus Christ, who is the Lord Jehovah, from eternity the Creator, in time the Redeemer, and to eternity the Regenerator, thus who is at once Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; and this, they said, is the gospel to be preached. After this the heavenly light which had been seen before over the opening returned, and gradually descended and filled the interiors of my mind, and enlightened my ideas on the trinity and unity of God; and the ideas which I had first formed on these subjects, and which had been merely natural, I then saw separated as chaff is separated from wheat by winnowing, and carried away as by a wind to the north of heaven, and scattered.Harry]

This is from Swedenborg. While he was in the spiritual world the angels read his mind and saw that he was thinking same the way you think about the Holy Trinity:

The angels perceived in my thought those ideas of God that prevail in the Christian Church respecting a trinity of persons in unity and a unity of persons in a trinity.

Also respecting a birth of the Son of God from eternity,and they said, "What is in your thoughts? Are you not thinking from natural light,  which is not in accord with our spiritual light? Unless, therefore, you dismiss these ideas  from your thoughts or else we will shut up heaven against you and depart."

  But I said, "Enter, I pray you, more deeply into my thought, and you will see, perhaps, that there is an agreement between us." This they did; and they saw that by three persons I understood three Divine attributes going forth, Creation, Redemption, and Regeneration, and that these are attributes of one God.

From myself: I had post this before that one God is the Creator, Redeemer and Regenerator. It is the same attributes of one God.

Also, that by the birth of the Son of God from eternity I understood His birth foreseen from eternity and provided in time; (also that to think of the Son born of God from eternity would, to me, be not above nature and reason but contrary to nature and reason.

While to think of the Son born of God in time through the virgin Mary as the only Son of God, and the only-begotten, is very different; and to believe otherwise than this would be a monstrous error.

 I then told them that the source of my natural thought about a trinity and unity of persons, and the birth of a Son of God from eternity, was the doctrine of faith in the church which has its name from Athanasius.
 
 Then the angels said, "Very well," and asked me to say from them that only those who approach the very God of heaven and earth can enter heaven, because heaven is heaven from that only God, and that this God is Jesus Christ, who is the Lord Jehovah, from eternity the Creator, in time the Redeemer, and to eternity the Regenerator, thus who is at once Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; and this, they said, is the gospel to be preached.

 After this the heavenly light which had been seen before over the opening returned, and gradually descended and filled the interiors of my mind, and enlightened my ideas on the trinity and unity of God; and the ideas which I had first formed on these subjects, and which had been merely natural, I then saw separated as chaff is separated from wheat by winnowing, and carried away as by a wind to the north of heaven, and scattered.

Harry

[Do you understand why He's riding a white horse. Do you know what the meaning of a white horse. In the prophetical parts of the Word mention is very often made of the horse, but no one has known that "a horse" signifies the understanding, and his "rider" one who is intelligent; and this possibly, because it seems strange and wonderful, that by "a horse" such a thing should be meant in the spiritual sense, and thence in the Word. But nevertheless that it is so, may evidently appear from many passages therein; some of which only I will here adduce. In the prophecy of Israel, it is said of Dan: Dan is a serpent upon the way, an arrow-snake upon the highway, that biteth the horse's heels, so that his rider shall fall backward (Gen. 49:17, 18). No one can understand what this prophecy concerning one of the tribes of Israel signifies unless he knows what is signified by "a serpent," and what is meant by "a horse" and his "rider;" everyone, however, knows that there is something spiritual involved therein; what therefore each expression signifies, may be seen in The Arcana Coelestia, where this prophecy is explained. In Habakkuk: O God, Thou didst ride upon Thy horses. Thy chariots are salvation. Thou didst tread in the sea with Thy horses (Hab. 3:8, 16). That "horses" here signify what is spiritual, is evident, for they are said concerning God; in any other sense, what could be meant by saying, that "God rides upon His horses, and that He treads upon the sea with horses?" In like manner in Zechariah: In that day, there shall be upon the bells of the horses, holiness unto Jehovah (Zech. 14:20). In the same: In that day, saith Jehovah, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness; and I will open Mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness (Zech. 12:4). It treats there of the vastation of the church, which takes place when there no longer remains the understanding of any truth; and which is described thus by "the horse and his rider;" what else could be the meaning of "smiting every horse with astonishment," and of "smiting the horse of the people with blindness"? What has this to do with the church? In Job: God hath caused her to forget wisdom, neither hath He imparted to her intelligence: what time she lifteth up herself on high, she scorneth the horse and his rider (39:17-19 seq.). That "the horse" here signifies the understanding, is manifestly evident. In like manner in David, where it is said: He rideth upon the word of truth (Ps. 45:4). And in many other passages. Moreover, who can know the reason why Elijah and Elisha were called "the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof;" and why "the boy of Elisha saw the mountain full of horses and chariots of fire;" except it be known what is signified by "chariots," and what was represented by "Elijah and Elisha"? For Elisha said to Elijah: My father, my father, the chariot and horsemen* of Israel and the horsemen thereof (2 Kings 2:11, 12). And Joash the king said to Elisha: My father, my father, the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof (2 Kings 13:14). And, speaking of the boy of Elisha, it is said: Jehovah opened the eyes of the boy of Elisha, and he saw and behold the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha (2 Kings 6:17). The reason why Elijah and Elisha were called "the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof," is because they both represented the Lord as to the Word, and "a chariot" signifies doctrine from the Word, and "horsemen" intelligence. That "Elijah" and "Elisha" represented the Lord as to the Word, may be seen in The Arcana Coelestia. And that "chariots" signify doctrine drawn from the Word. Harry]

Do you understand why He's riding a white horse. Do you know what the meaning of a white horse.

 In the prophetical parts of the Word mention is very often made of the horse, but  no one has known that "a horse" signifies the understanding, and his "rider" one who is intelligent; and this possibly, because it seems strange and wonderful, that by "a horse" such a thing should be meant in the spiritual sense, and thence in the Word.

 But nevertheless that it is so, may evidently appear from many passages therein; some of which only I will here adduce.

 In the prophecy of Israel, it is said of Dan:
 Dan is a serpent upon the way, an arrow-snake upon the highway, that biteth the horse's heels, so that his rider shall fall backward (Gen. 49:17, 18).

No one can understand what this prophecy concerning one of the tribes of Israel signifies unless he knows what is signified by "a serpent," and what is meant by "a horse" and his "rider;" everyone, however, knows that there is something spiritual involved therein; what therefore each expression signifies, may be seen in The Arcana Coelestia, where this prophecy is explained.

In Habakkuk:
O God, Thou didst ride upon Thy horses. Thy chariots are salvation. Thou didst tread in the sea with Thy horses (Hab. 3:8, 16).

That "horses" here signify what is spiritual, is evident, for they are said concerning God; in any other sense, what could be meant by saying, that "God rides upon His horses, and that He treads upon the sea with  horses?" In like manner in Zechariah:
In that day, there shall be upon the bells of the horses, holiness unto Jehovah (Zech. 14:20).

In the same:
In that day, saith Jehovah, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness; and I will open Mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness (Zech. 12:4).

It treats there of the vastation of the church, which takes place when there no longer remains the understanding of any truth; and which is described thus by "the horse and his rider;" what else could be the meaning of "smiting every horse with astonishment," and of "smiting the horse of the people with blindness"? What has this to do with the church?

 In Job:
God hath caused her to forget wisdom, neither hath He imparted to her intelligence: what time she lifteth up herself on high, she scorneth the horse and his rider (39:17-19 seq.).

That "the horse" here signifies the understanding, is manifestly evident. In like manner in David, where it is said:
 He rideth upon the word of truth (Ps. 45:4).
And in many other passages. Moreover, who can know the reason why Elijah and Elisha were called "the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof;" and why "the boy of Elisha saw the mountain full of horses and chariots of fire;" except it be known what is signified by "chariots," and what was represented by "Elijah and Elisha"? For Elisha said to Elijah:
My father, my father, the chariot and horsemen* of Israel and the horsemen thereof (2 Kings 2:11, 12).

And Joash the king said to Elisha:
My father, my father, the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof (2 Kings 13:14).

And, speaking of the boy of Elisha, it is said:
Jehovah opened the eyes of the boy of Elisha, and he saw and behold the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha (2 Kings 6:17).

The reason why Elijah and Elisha were called "the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof," is because they both represented the Lord as to the Word, and "a chariot" signifies doctrine from the Word, and "horsemen" intelligence.

 That "Elijah" and "Elisha" represented the Lord as to the Word, may be seen in The Arcana Coelestia. And that "chariots" signify doctrine drawn from the Word.

Harry

 

[To All, This is something new to the Christian world.They believe that the Lord spoke only one way,naturally. But they do not know that the Lord spoke from His Divine. The one on the white horse in Revelation 19:11-18 is the Lord Himself.The white horse means the spiritual sense of the Word, which is meant by the Lord preaching from His Divine, For the Lord preached naturally and spiritually at the sametime. The Lord preached naturally before men in this world and at the sametime preached spirtually before the angels in heaven. He was in both world at the sametime.Man was meant to understand like an angel, but false ideas about God kept him from doing so.The spiritual meaning of the Word is unknown today because of man's false ideas about God, beliving that He is in three Divine persons, and that faith is all that matters for salvation without good works. Rev.19:11-18I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse, and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, and He had a name written that no man knew but He Himself, and He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood, and His name is called the Word of God. And His armies (angels) in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords. And I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried with a loud voice, Come and gather yourselves together to the great supper, that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, and small and great (Rev. 19:11-18. What these things signify cannot be known except from the spiritual sense of the Word, and no one can know the spiritual sense except from a knowledge of correspondences, for all the above words are correspondences, and not one word there is without meaning. The knowledge of correspondences teaches what is signified by the white horse, what by Him who sat thereon, what by His eyes that were as a flame of fire, what by the crowns that were upon His head, what by His vesture dipped in blood, what by the white linen in which they were clothed who were of His army in heaven, what by the angel standing in the sun, what by the great supper to which they should come and gather themselves, and what by the flesh of kings, and captains, and others, which they should eat. The signification of each of these things in the spiritual sense may be seen in White Horse, where they are explained, so that it is unnecessary to explain them further here. In that little work it has been shown that the Lord in respect to the Word is here described. By His eyes which were as a flame of fire, and by the crowns that were upon His head, and by the name that no one knew but He Himself, is meant the spiritual sense of the Word, and that no one can know it but the Lord Himself and he to whom He wills to reveal it. By His vesture dipped in blood is meant the natural sense of the Word, which is the sense of its letter, to which violence has been done. That it is the Word which is thus described is very evident, for it is said "His name is called the Word of God". It is the Lord who is meant is equally clear, for it is said that the name of Him who sat on the white horse was written, King of kings and Lord of lords. That at the end of the church the spiritual sense of the Word is to be opened is signified not only by what is said of the white horse and of Him who sat upon it, but also by the great supper to which the angel standing in the sun invited all to come, and to eat the flesh of kings and of captains, of mighty men, of horses, and of them that sat on them, and of all both free and bond. All these expressions would be empty words and devoid of spirit and life, unless there were what is spiritual within them, like soul in body. Harry]

To All,
This is something new to the Christian world.They believe that the Lord spoke only one way,naturally. But they do not know that the Lord spoke from His Divine.

The one on the white horse in Revelation 19:11-18 is the Lord Himself.

The white horse means the spiritual sense of the Word, which is meant by the Lord preaching from His Divine, For the Lord preached naturally and spiritually at the sametime.

The Lord preached naturally before men in this world and at the sametime preached spirtually before the angels in heaven. He was in both world at the sametime.

Man was meant to understand like an angel, but false ideas about God kept him from doing so.

The spiritual meaning of the Word is unknown today because of man's false ideas about God, beliving that He is in three Divine persons, and that faith is all that matters for salvation without good works.

Rev.19:11-18
I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse, and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, and He had a name written that no man knew but He Himself, and He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood, and His name is called the Word of God. And His armies (angels) in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords. And I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried with a loud voice, Come and gather yourselves together to the great supper, that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, and small and great (Rev. 19:11-18.

What these things signify cannot be known except from the spiritual sense of the Word, and no one can know the spiritual sense except from a knowledge of correspondences, for all the above words are correspondences, and not one word there is without meaning.

The knowledge of correspondences teaches what is signified by the white horse, what by Him who sat thereon, what by His eyes that were as a flame of fire, what by the crowns that were upon His head, what by His vesture dipped in blood, what by the white linen in which they were clothed who were of His army in heaven, what by the angel standing in the sun, what by the great supper to which they should come and gather themselves, and what by the flesh of kings, and captains, and others, which they should eat.

The signification of each of these things in the spiritual sense may be seen in White Horse, where they are explained, so that it is unnecessary to explain them further here.

In that little work it has been shown that the Lord in respect to the Word is here described.

By His eyes which were as a flame of fire, and by the crowns that were upon His head, and by the name that no one knew but He Himself, is meant the spiritual sense of the Word, and that no one can know it but the Lord Himself and he to whom He wills to reveal it.

By His vesture dipped in blood is meant the natural sense of the Word, which is the sense of its letter, to which violence has been done.

That it is the Word which is thus described is very evident, for it is said "His name is called the Word of God".

It is the Lord who is meant is equally clear, for it is said that the name of Him who sat on the white horse was written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

That at the end of the church the spiritual sense of the Word is to be opened is signified not only by what is said of the white horse and of Him who sat upon it, but also by the great supper to which the angel standing in the sun invited all to come, and to eat the flesh of kings and of captains, of mighty men, of horses, and of them that sat on them, and of all both free and bond.

All these expressions would be empty words and devoid of spirit and life, unless there were what is spiritual within them, like soul in body.

Harry

[By Swedenborg: The Divine Esse is at once Esse [Being] in itself and Existere [Manifestation] in itself. Jehovah God is Esse in itself, because He is the I Am, the Only, and the First, from eternity to eternity, the source of everything that is, without whom it could not be. In this way and not otherwise He is the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega. From myself: Jehovah God again saided the same thing in Revelation,"I am the First and the Last." God has many names, Jehovah and Jesus is one of them, and each of them have a different meanings.From Swedenborg:It cannot be said that His Esse is from Itself, because the expression from itself implies something prior, and therefore time; and time is not applicable to the Infinite, which is called infinite from eternity.It also implies another God who is God in Himself, thus it implies God from God, or that God formed Himself; in which case He would neither be uncreate nor infinite. For He would have made Himself finite, either from Himself or from another. From the fact that God is Esse in itself it follows that He is Love in itself, Wisdom in itself, and Life in itself, and that He is the Itself, the source of all things, to which each thing must have relation in order to be anything. That God is God because He is Life in itself is evident from the Lord's words in John (5:26) and in Isaiah: I am Jehovah that maketh all things; that spreadeth forth the heavens alone that stretcheth forth the earth by Myself (44:21) and that He alone is God, and beside Him there is no God (Isa. 45:14, 15, 21, 22; Hos. 13:4). God is not only Esse [Being] in itself, but also Existere [Manifestation] in itself, because Esse without Existere is nothing, equally so Existere unless it is from Esse.Therefore where the one is the other must needs be. The same is true of substance and form. Unless a substance is also a form nothing can be predicated of it, and for the reason that having no quality it is in itself nothing. The terms esse and existere are here used, and not essence and existence, because a distinction must be made between esse and essence, and between existere and existence, like that between the prior and the posterior, the prior being more universal than the posterior. To the Divine Esse infinity and eternity are applicable,while to the Divine Essence and Existence, Divine love and wisdom are applicable, and through these two omnipotence and omnipresence, which will be considered in their order. Harry]

 By Swedenborg:
 The Divine Esse is at once Esse [Being] in itself and Existere [Manifestation] in itself. Jehovah God is Esse in itself, because He is the I Am, the Only, and the First, from eternity to eternity, the source of everything that is, without whom it could not be.

In this way and not otherwise He is the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega.

From myself: Jehovah God again saided the same thing in Revelation,"I am the First and the Last." God has many names, Jehovah and Jesus is one of them, and each of them have a different meanings.

From Swedenborg:
It cannot be said that His Esse is from Itself, because the expression from itself implies something prior, and therefore time; and time is not applicable to the Infinite, which is called infinite from eternity.

It also implies another God who is God in Himself, thus it implies God from God, or that God formed Himself; in which case He would neither be uncreate nor infinite. For He would  have made Himself finite, either from Himself or from another.

From the fact that God is Esse in itself it follows that He is Love in itself, Wisdom in itself, and Life in itself, and that He is the Itself, the source of all things, to which each thing must have relation in order to be anything.

 That God is God because He is Life in itself is evident from the Lord's words in John (5:26) and in Isaiah:
I am Jehovah that maketh all things; that spreadeth forth the heavens alone that stretcheth forth the earth by Myself (44:21)
and that He alone is God, and beside Him there is no God (Isa. 45:14, 15, 21, 22; Hos. 13:4).

God is not only Esse [Being] in itself, but also Existere [Manifestation] in itself, because Esse without Existere is nothing, equally so Existere unless it is from Esse.

Therefore where the one is the other must needs be. The same is true of substance and form. Unless a substance is also a form nothing can be predicated of it, and for the reason that having no quality it is in itself nothing.

The terms esse and existere are here used, and not essence and existence, because a distinction must be made between esse and essence, and between existere and existence, like that between the prior and the posterior, the prior being more universal than the posterior.

To the Divine Esse infinity and eternity are applicable,while to the Divine Essence and Existence, Divine love and wisdom are applicable, and through these two omnipotence and omnipresence, which will be considered in their order.

Harry