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What do you think about the High Court in the State of Massachusetts decreeing that homosexual marriages are constitutional?

All I can say is, if we loose this battle nationally, its all over for America.   My fellow brothers and sisters...its time to get your prayer on as never before!

Ok, who voted for "They should be"? ::)

No, they are just wrong. We have plenty of Good Christians who will fight it. We just need to team up! Like we did on Pro-life. Everyone who is pro-life teams up. Catholics and strongly anti-Catholic will hold hands. Jewish Rabbis and Anglican Ministers unite. Christians and Non-christians.

HOMOPHOBES OF THE WORLD UNITE! ;D

Pray for all the spiritually sick that openly choose to throw sin in God's face and wallow in it. That they might be healed and cleansed.

Once again I agree with you Brother

Brother Love :)

NO WAY!!!

The decision demonstrates even more the depth of Americas depravity and flow toward the sewer.  It will be interesting to see how the presidential candidates handle this matter.  Republicans believe marriage should be between a man and woman only.  Democratic candidates are not certain, because some of them believe homosexuals who wish to marry should be granted a civil union not marriage, but a civil union which, in reality, is the same as condoning the homosexual lifestyle.  
 
    The whole matter will eventually reach the United States Supreme Court.  The Court of Heaven has already decided the case, but a few lower-court misfits dont like the decision and are going about to change it.  Will God find it necessary to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah again?  Well see.

Brother Love :)

I find it interesting that we as Christians are told not to "force our morals" on you...and yet here you are, forcing your immorality on us through judges...who by the way have no constitutional or legal right to do so. In short, you are trying to legislate immorality. And frankly, we will not sit around and be silent over this.

It won’t be long until multiple marriages are legal, just like the days of Noah and Sodom!

I'm sorry Yertle, (funny name hehe  ;D) but I'm going to have to say this:

We don't really have separation of church and state, but we claim to. If the politicians say we do, and we don't I think it's a lie. And what do 1 of the 10 commandments say?

Here is some examples of stuff:

"I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."- President George Bush Sr., during an     August 27, 1987 interview by Rob Sherman

"If America is to be great in the future, it will be if we understand that our source is not civic and temporal, but our source is godly and eternal." - Ashcroft, Bob Jones University, May 8, 1999


" Well First of all, you got to understand some of my view on freedom, it's not America's gift to the world. See, freedom is God." -G.W. Bush--I accidentally closed the website...but you know he says this kind of thing all the time.

http://traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1297

TVC Weekly News: Kennedy/Hatch Push Pro-Homosexual Hate Crimes Bill

Summary: Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT) has joined forces with Ted Kennedy (D-MA) to support passage of a pro-homosexual hate crimes bill.

The Washington Times (Nov. 13, 2003) reported that Ted Kennedy's hate crimes bill now has a Republican advocate. Senator Orrin Hatch has stated that he supports Kennedy's pro-homosexual bill, which includes adding alleged hate crimes protections for "sexual orientation."

Hatch is quoted in the Times as saying that opponents to hate crime legislation need to "grow up and realize that that's an important issue to many, many people in our society and nobody should be discriminated against."

TVC's report on the Kennedy hate crimes bill exposes the lie that there is an epidemic of hate crimes against homosexuals, bisexuals, or transgenders. It also points out that hate crimes laws create unequal treatment under the law.

Once this law is passed, homosexuals will be given protected minority status on a par with race, ethnicity, or religion. Sodomy is a medically dangerous behavior, not a fixed identity. It is akin to smoking or drug abuse, not an unchangeable characteristic such as race. (There are no "ex-whites" or "ex-blacks," but there are thousands of ex-homosexuals who have overcome these destructive behaviors.) This law will also be used by homosexuals to attack the free speech rights of conservatives and Christians who oppose homosexual behavior.

Read and distribute TVC's report, "Hate Crime Legislation: Unequal Treatment Under The Law." Email the link to this article to your U.S. Senators and ask that they oppose the Kennedy/Hatch bill.  
 

http://traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1289

 TVC Weekly News: Report Shows Homosexual Foster Parents Apt To Molest Children

Summary: The Family Research Institute published a report in 2002 that is worth reading and distributing in view of current debates over same-sex marriage, homosexual adoptions, and the future of children living on homosexual households.

In "Gay Foster Parents More Apt to Molest," FRI's President Dr. Paul Cameron describes the high rates of child molestation among homosexual and unmarried foster parents. In examining hundreds of news stories where it was possible to tell the person's sexual orientation, he found that in 22 stories with 32 foster children victims, 8.5 (30%) were victimized by heterosexuals and 19.5 (70%) were victimized by homosexuals. At least 43% were victimized by the unmarried.

Dr. Cameron also found that very few news articles carried the sexual orientations of the foster parents, so these figures may be quite low compared to the reality.

Read and distribute Dr. Cameron's report as well as TVC's Homosexual Urban Legend report on the high rate of molestations committed by homosexuals against children.  
 

We live in a fallen world   :'(

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

I'm one of the two who voted "SICK". Make it legal on another planet and buy them a ticket.

I'm far too shy on this subject.

In Christ,
Tom

Acts 13:17.  The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it.
 

Hebrews 11:13.  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
 14.  For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
 15.  And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
 16.  But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.


Just as Israel sojourned in a strange country as strangers and God chose them and exalted them by bringinging them out of it, so also shall the faithful in Christ who are strangers in a strange world be brought out of it into the heavenly city.

Let the joy of the Lord be seen in the faithful so that others might see and come into the joy of His promise. Knowing that better things that one cannot even imagine await the faithful when they are brought out of the strange land and taken home.

 :)

In Christian love,
Ollie

But wait a minute here...
The Bible says plainly that a man shall not lie with another man...

We can't just allow this!

       Jesussavedusall;
     I know what the Bible says as do mostall of us hear, But what do you perpose we do? If we get laws passed the liberal judges say that they go agenst the constituion, or find some other way to fight them.
     

I don't know. Same goes with why people are allowing gays to preach. It's not right. How can you listen to someone who is clearly contradicting him or herself?

Do you think the church can do something about the second one?

    I don't and wouldn't attend a Church that would let a Homosexual be a member,not knowingly let alone let one preach. Now if a Gay came to Christ, and left it and was called to preach ok, but not a curently open or a hidden Gay.

How will you know?

I think the High Court is high alright.  Homosexuals should get the death penalty if found guilty of such immoral crime against our society.  That's what a good government like the one God established is supposed to do to homosexuals, execute them!

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! rotfl! Good one! ;D

Not funny!  Love the sinner, hate the sin.  No wonder people who practise homosexuality feel outraged.   Some christians make this a personal attack on these people without making room at the cross for them as well.  Jesus died for ALL of us.

2 Pet 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

I'm not saying we shouldn't say sin is sin, but Jesus came to us in this life as good news.  Judgment comes later to those who don't reprent.  Go into all the world and preach the good news

Mark 16:15
15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
(NIV)

Luke 4:18
18 "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
(NIV)

Luke 4:43
43 But he said, "I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent."
(NIV)


Acts 8:12
12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
(NIV)

Acts 11:20-21
20 Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus.
21 The Lord's hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord.
(NIV)

People who turn, turn because of the good news of Jesus Christ and his ability to rescue us from our hopeless lives.   We will not change peoples lives condeming them to hell without throwing them a life line.  Its one thing if they refuse to grab the life line, but its quite another if we laugh at them as they drown in their sin, while enjoying the comfort of our life boat.

Hey, Faldwell... relax.

Hey Tibby,

Sorry if I sounded a little hyper....lol   I just believe that sometimes in the heat of battle, its easy for soldiers of the faith to forget who the real enemy is.  

Peace and Love!

Under the law gay people were stoned.

[think of this for a while.... ]

[....  just a sec.... ]


And I would be standing next to them in the rally ;
I did New Age sorcery before I met Christ and His Power.

You know I think I might be going a little off topic, but what do you guys think about Christians marrying non-christians? I know it happens. It doesn't make sense to me, but then again we are not supposed to hate the sinner, but the sin. So what does the bible say on that?

The verse you are referring to is...

2 Cor 6:14
14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?
(NIV)

Yoked, meaning litteraly joined together

Strongs Greek/Hebrew deffinition of Yoke.
2218  zugos (dzoo-gos');
from the root of zeugnumi (to join, especially by a "yoke"); a coupling, i.e. (figuratively) servitude (a law or obligation); also (literally) the beam of the balance (as connecting the scales):
KJV-- pair of balances, yoke.

And Fellowship
3353  metochos (met'-okh-os);
from 3348; participant, i.e. (as noun) a sharer; by implication an associate:
KJV-- fellow, partaker, partner.

It is possible to love sinner's without being participants.

Mark 10:21
21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
(NIV)

Clear message of love and hope, not condemnation.   Again, I do not dispute the sin, or deny its wrong.  Only that by loving sinners can they see the error of their way, and have the hope of treasure in heaven by following the forgiver of sin.

Grace and Love!

You will get no argument from me  ;D

As for marrying an un-believer.  You are forming a union with a spouse.  The two become one.  I think the problem here is the spiritual battle that would ensue.  All of us are constantly fighting our own sinful nature.  But imagine fighting your own sinful nature along with a yoked sinful nature.   Thats 2 sinful natures against one forgiven nature.  Not winning odds for you spiritually.  Might sound silly, but thats the way I look at it.

2nd Timothy's words are plain text
Mozilla's word are in bold text.
--------------------------------------------------
Not funny!  Love the sinner, hate the sin.  

That is a dangerous and unscriptural cliche.  Does God punish the sin or the sinner?  The sinner of course, because the sin is within the sinner.  You cannot separate the two.

No wonder people who practise homosexuality feel outraged.

I've yet to see many outraged homosexuals.  There are plenty of homo activists that pretend to be outraged so someone will feel sorry for them.  I for one will not tolerate it.

Some christians make this a personal attack on these people without making room at the cross for them as well.

Only an extremely small number of Christians have personally attacked a homosexual by physical means.

Jesus died for ALL of us.

Yes, but that doesn't mean ALL are saved.

I'm not saying we shouldn't say sin is sin, but Jesus came to us in this life as good news.  Judgment comes later to those who don't reprent.  Go into all the world and preach the good news

We are not to tell homosexuals their lifestyle is acceptable just so they can get saved.  That would be a horrible thing to do.

People who turn, turn because of the good news of Jesus Christ and his ability to rescue us from our hopeless lives.  

I think it's great if a homosexual repents.  But the "good news" presented to them better not be the wishy-washy (God loves you and will save you no matter what even if you are a practicing homosexual) gospel.  Homosexuals must repent if the want to be saved.  And to repent means a 180° turn from their homosexual ways.

We will not change peoples lives condeming them to hell without throwing them a life line.  Its one thing if they refuse to grab the life line, but its quite another if we laugh at them as they drown in their sin, while enjoying the comfort of our life boat.

Actually, we cannot condemn them to hell.  And we cannot throw them a life-line.  That is something only God can do my friend.

Oh, and there is no such thing as a homosexual marriage!

And I quote...

Rom 3:20-24
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. (THE GOOD NEWS) There is no difference,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
(NIV)

I find it interesting that so many christians do not understand this.   The law is provided to prove that NO-ONE is perfect.  It is impossible to keep the law.  God knew this when he gave it to Moses.  This is why Jesus had to fulfill the law by
by dying in our place.

Homosexuality is wrong, just as lying is wrong, or Adultry.  Jesus said even lusting in your heart makes you an adulterer.  We all deserve death by stoning.  Thank God Jesus took our place through Gods grace.

The Good News!

Sin died with Christ my friend.  Only through faith in that can WE escape the punishment.  


I would not argue this, and never anywhere did I say we should tolerate it.


Again I would agree here.  I was speaking to those who chose to attack personally.


Again I tottaly agree.


There lifestyle is not acceptable, but how will any of us ever come to christ if we have make ourselves acceptable before we reach him?   If this were the case then Christs death was in vain.  We could save ourselves!


What are  you saying? that only homosexuals can never come to forgivness in Christ?  Sure they can.  Sin is sin no matter what the sin.   Christ died for ALL our sins, yes even the homosexuals.


Here I am in total agreement with you.


WE cannot save them, but WE must tell them the good news which saves them throwing them the lifeline of TRUTH, the cross, the hope, the GOOD NEWS!



God has ALREADY done it.  Its our job to share it.

Grace and Love!

They sure can, and it's wonderful when they do.

Well 2Timothy,
It looks like we are basically in agreement.

So have a nice day!   ;D

      I beleive this answers your question.

2COR 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

      Its responces like this that gives credence to the hate legelation thatwas passed a few years ago, and may be expanded to include speech.

     The Mas. state supreme court has ruled to alow gay marriage, and by the constituion other stats basicly will have to reconise them.

I wrote:
Forrest replies:
Forrest,
You should not be calling the truth "hate speech."  "Hate speech" is just more rediculous legislation coming out of a Washington that has lost its marbles.
I wrote:
Forrest replies:
Just because idiots serving on the Mass. S.C. have allowed gays to the have the same status as marriage, does not mean homosexual marriage exists.  It does not exist, and it cannot exist.  Marriage is between a man and a woman.

Leviticus 20:13 says, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Who thinks God was unloving for commanding that homosexuals be put to death?

I for one will not disagree with God.

Mozilla, you believe the OT laws are still applicable?

   For update on subject.
    http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/11/242003b.asp

       :'(

        Below is a site that is trying to get an amendment to define marrage as between one man and one woman

          http://www.nogaymarriage.com/

Good info Forrest, thanks Bro

AP • New York Times • CBS • Photos
 
Mass. Court Clears Way for Gay Marriages
 
Feb 4, 5:07 PM (ET)

By JENNIFER PETER
 
(AP) Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court Chief Justice Margaret Marshall delivers the keynote address...
Full Image
 
BOSTON (AP) - The Massachusetts high court declared Wednesday that gays are entitled to nothing less than marriage and that Vermont-style civil unions will not suffice, setting the stage for the nation's first legally sanctioned same-sex weddings by the spring.

The court issued the advisory opinion at the request of legislators ...


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040204/D80GMQ581.html

Thanks for the link David.

<:)))><

Good one Symphony, thanks. ebia will think this is good for the queers.

There are many arguments used by homosexual activists to justify and even lend moral credence to their lifestyle.

To discount the Old Testament scriptures, some homosexual activists have argued that moral imperatives from the Old Testament can be dismissed since there were certain ceremonial requirements at the time—such as not eating pork, or circumcising male babies—that are no longer binding.

While the Old Testament’s ceremonial requirements are no longer binding, its moral requirements are. God may issue different ceremonies for use in different times and cultures, but his moral requirements are eternal and are binding on all cultures.

Confirming this fact is the New Testament’s forceful rejection of homosexual behavior as well. In Romans 1, Paul attributes the homosexual desires of some to a refusal to acknowledge and worship God. He says, "For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. . . . Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them" (Rom. 1:26–28, 32).

Elsewhere Paul again warns that homosexual behavior is one of the sins that will deprive one of heaven: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 6:9–10, NIV).

All of Scripture teaches the unacceptability of homosexual behavior. But the rejection of this behavior is not an arbitrary prohibition. It, like other moral imperatives, is rooted in natural law—the design that God has built into human nature.

People have a basic, ethical intuition that certain behaviors are wrong because they are unnatural. We perceive intuitively that the natural sex partner of a human is another human, not an animal.

The same reasoning applies to the case of homosexual behavior. The natural sex partner for a man is a woman, and the natural sex partner for a woman is a man. Thus, people have the corresponding intuition concerning homosexuality that they do about bestiality—that it is wrong because it is unnatural.

Natural law reasoning is the basis for almost all standard moral intuitions. For example, it is the dignity and value that each human being naturally possesses that makes the needless destruction of human life or infliction of physical and emotional pain immoral. This gives rise to a host of specific moral principles, such as the unacceptability of murder, kidnapping, mutilation, physical and emotional abuse, and so forth.

To avoid the force of the natural law argument against homosexual behavior, some gay activists have offered a number of claims.

Many homosexuals argue that they have not chosen their condition, but that they were born that way, making homosexual behavior natural for them.

But because something was not chosen does not mean it was inborn. Some desires are acquired or strengthened by habituation and conditioning instead of by conscious choice. For example, no one chooses to be an alcoholic, but one can become habituated to alcohol. Just as one can acquire alcoholic desires (by repeatedly becoming intoxicated) without consciously choosing them, so one may acquire homosexual desires (by engaging in homosexual fantasies or behavior) without consciously choosing them.

Since sexual desire is subject to a high degree of cognitive conditioning in humans (there is no biological reason why we find certain scents, forms of dress, or forms of underwear sexually stimulating), it would be unusual if homosexual desires were not subject to a similar degree of cognitive conditioning.

Even if there is a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality (and studies on this point are inconclusive), the behavior remains unnatural because homosexuality is still not part of the natural design of humanity. It does not make homosexual behavior acceptable; other behaviors are not rendered acceptable simply because there may be a genetic predisposition toward them.

For example, scientific studies suggest some people are born with a hereditary disposition to alcoholism, but no one would argue someone ought to fulfill these inborn urges by becoming an alcoholic. Alcoholism is not an acceptable "lifestyle" any more than homosexuality is.

Homosexual activists often justify homosexuality by claiming that ten percent of the population is homosexual, meaning that it is a common and thus acceptable behavior.

But not all common behaviors are acceptable, and even if ten percent of the population were born homosexual, this would prove nothing. But the fact is that the ten percent figure is false. It stems from the 1948 report by Alfred Kinsey, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male. The study was profoundly flawed, as later psychologists studying sexual behavior have agreed. Kinsey’s subjects were drawn heavily from convicted criminals; 1,400 of his 5,300 final subjects (twenty-six percent) were convicted sex offenders—a group that by definition is not representative of normal sexual practices.

Furthermore, the ten percent figure includes people who are not exclusively homosexual but who only engaged in some homosexual behavior for a period of time and then stopped—people who had gone through a fully or partially homosexual "phase" but who were not long-term homosexuals. (For a critique of Kinsey’s research methods, see Kinsey, Sex, and Fraud, by Dr. Judith Reisman and Edward Eichel [Lafayette, Louisiana: Lochinvar & Huntington House, 1990].)

Recent and more scientifically accurate studies have shown that only around one to two percent of the population is homosexual.

Those opposed to homosexual behavior are often charged with "homophobia"—that they hold the position they do because they are "afraid" of homosexuals. Sometimes the charge is even made that these same people are perhaps homosexuals themselves and are overcompensating to hide this fact, even from themselves, by condemning other homosexuals.

Both of these arguments attempt to stop rational discussion of an issue by shifting the focus to one of the participants. In doing so, they dismiss another person’s arguments based on some real or supposed attribute of the person (see C.S. Lewis' piece on "Bulverism" from God in The Dock). In this case, the supposed attribute is a fear of homosexuals.

Like similar attempts to avoid rational discussion of an issue, the homophobia argument completely misses the point. Even if a person were afraid of homosexuals, that would not diminish his arguments against their behavior. The fact that a person is afraid of handguns would not nullify arguments against handguns, nor would the fact that a person might be afraid of handgun control diminish arguments against handgun control.

Furthermore, the homophobia charge rings false. The vast majority of those who oppose homosexual behavior are in no way "afraid" of homosexuals. A disagreement is not the same as a fear. One can disagree with something without fearing it, and the attempt to shut down rational discussion by crying "homophobe!" falls flat. It is an attempt to divert attention from the arguments against one’s position by focusing attention on the one who made the arguments, while trying to claim the moral high ground against him.

The modern arguments in favor of homosexuality have thus been insufficient to overcome the evidence that homosexual behavior is against divine and natural law, as the Bible as well as the wider circle of Jewish and Christian (not to mention Muslim) writers, have always held.

Paul comfortingly reminds us, "No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it" (1 Cor. 10:13).

Homosexuals who want to live chastely or receive counseling that could possibly lead to a change in sexual behavior can contact 'Exodus' or 'Courage.' Both are national, Christian support groups for help in deliverance from the homosexual lifestyle.

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
I absolutely agree. I think this is appauling!! I am glad we have a President who announced public & nationaly that this marriage is a downfall to society! I am SO glad he denounced it. The homosexual lifestyle is literally being forced down Americas throat! Right into our childrens schools & even churches! Sickening & Sad! Im with 2nd Timothy, on our knees in prayer!!

Ok I totally think Gay marriages are just WRONG!!!!! Thats a fact it says so in the Bible. About stoning them and killing them that is wrong to cause God will deal with them in His own time. But i think we should stand up against it and pray pray and pray some more.

amen, FB

WOW!!!

As of February 6, 2004

Homosexual marriages are constitutional?
They should be   2 (8%)
YES   2 (8%)
Gays are just like us (normal)   1 (4%)
Maybe   0 (0%)
Who Cares   0 (0%)
no   3 (12%)
NO WAY!   12 (48%)
Sick   5 (20%)
     
Total Votes: 25
 I am with the ones that voted no, NO WAY and SICK.
80%


Who ever the 20% are, they need our prayers.

Godless!

Pray for their deliverance from this bondage and that God through Jesus Christ would bring them into the perfect law of liberty.

(http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/bear.gif)


"Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."                                     II Thess. 2:11

So I'm thinking, in view of the San Francisco's decision two days ago to flaunt their own state law prohibiting gay marriage, by issuing licenses for gay marriage--on into this morning, I believe--Valentine's Day, that...


...in view of San Francisco's decision, and what we knew all along anyway,


that this gay thing isn't about homosexuality at all...

it's about something else much more ambitious...

Symph -
Right.  It is about power.  The same as rape is is not about sex, it is about power.  Some (homosexuals) have a need for power that is so great, they will 'spit in the face of God' in an attempt to say "see - I am powerful!".

Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony and JudgeNot,

I think that both of you are correct. However, the power they think they are getting is to legislate acceptance by God and by Christians. They will get neither, regardless of what laws are passed. They can call it whatever they wish, but it won't be a Holy bond of marriage recognized by God. Same sex civil unions or whatever else it winds up being called will be recognized by the devil.

Love In Christ,
Tom

I wanted your opinion on something (the Christians only, please!) I posted the following message the other day under Debate, but I think I should have put it here. I want to know what you think? (about what I did below) Is it right? Is it wrong? We're supposed to declare the truth, but how do you do that without "condemning?" And what is the difference between preacing righteousness, as they say Noah did, and exhorting against the evils of the day - and condemnation? I posted the suggestion below in another discussion board, and the homosexuals who wanted to cling to their sin jumped all over me....they clearly want to justify homosexuality, and they kept the few Christians in there busy.....what do you think?

"This is my first post. I have a suggestion. Especially now that the issue has really heated up in Massachusetts. I live in Arizona and this is what I have been doing the last few days….I took a white or light colored T shirt, old or new doesn’t matter, and some permanent makers. You can even buy markers for fabric at Walmart but any permanent will do. Put wax paper inside the shirt while you write.

On the front of the shirt, I printed in giant letters HOMOSEXUALITY  IS  A  SIN  Underneath that I put, Choose Life, Repent, Change and God Loves You in various places.
On the back of the shirt I wrote GAY ‘MARRIAGE’ WILL NEVER BE LEGAL IN GOD’S EYES  -  NEVER  EVER        WAKE  UP
I varied the sizes of the lettering for effect and  colored in some of the letters in the colors of the rainbow and drew a couple of those on there as well.

Then I wore my shirt to some busy places. and into busy stores (without a coat over it!) From people’s response so far, I would say it is a success. Jaws drop. Or people whisper – or ignore. I mean, isn’t it time we spoke up? I’m ready to discuss it with them, though, because I’m no better than they are. We are all sinners who need a savior.

I want to encourage you to go BE  SALT and light in the world. Don’t stay silent. Tell other people, especially people in Massachusetts. Post your successes stories…..

I want to encourage others to try this. There's really nothing store owners or anyone can do because it isn't a placard - it's a t shirt.
And, your topic could be anything, not necessarily this one."

I'm still rethinking it. I thought I would get into more conversations with people, but most people were shocked speechless and most averted their eyes. I saw mouths drop to knees. I don't know that I looked loving, although I was trying to. I have to admit, marching into the Starbucks in the heart of a town run by a gay mayor during the morning rush and only a couple of blocks from City Hall was exhilarating.

Also walked down the street facing traffic, because you can read the printing at least 20 to 40 feet away. After that, it was to the public library. Walked right past 2 cops inside, who never would have let me in with a sign that size. Then off to a busy restaurant where you have to walk around to get to the buffet. The a store with several homosexual employees - they were taking turns walking by to look at the front and back of the shirt. One of the guys asked me about it and I did get a chance to witness a little to him and give him a tract.

Regarding Legislation...

Homosexuality and Hate Speech
Defending Moral Principles Is Getting Riskier

LONDON, FEB. 14, 2004 (Zenit.org).- Christians defending moral teachings on homosexuality are increasingly running foul of laws that ban any negative statements about the subject. A British Anglican bishop, for instance, who suggested that homosexuals seek psychological counseling was the target of a police investigation, the Telegraph newspaper reported Nov. 10.

Bishop Peter Forster of Chester told a local paper: "Some people who are primarily homosexual can reorientate themselves. I would encourage them to consider that as an option, but I would not set myself up as a medical specialist on the subject -- that's in the area of psychiatric health."

Police investigated the statements and a spokesman said a copy of the article would be sent to the Crown Prosecution Service. Subsequently, the police dropped the case, the Independent newspaper reported Nov. 11.

The matter raised fears about restrictions on defending Christian morality, the British-based Christian Institute explained in its January newsletter. It added that the bishop's position was backed up by a lot of academic research. Even a longtime supporter of homosexual rights, Columbia University professor Robert Spitzer, recently published a study finding that homosexuals could become predominantly heterosexual through psychotherapy, the newsletter observed.

Debate also flared last year in the United Kingdom over whether churches should be allowed to refuse employment to homosexuals. The government finally agreed to add a clause to anti-discrimination legislation giving religious organizations the right to exclude a person on the grounds of sexual orientation, the Sunday Times reported June 1. Still, the Christian Institute warned in its January newsletter that employers must be prepared to argue their case in court.

In Ireland, meanwhile, the Irish Council for Civil Liberties warned the Catholic Church that distributing the Vatican guidelines on same-sex unions could bring prosecution. The document published last July by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith falls foul of the Incitement to Hatred Act, according to sources quoted in the Irish Times on Aug. 2.

"The document itself may not violate the act, but if you were to use the document to say that gays are evil, it is likely to give rise to hatred, which is against the act," said Aisling Reidy, director of the civil-liberties council. Those convicted under the act could face six-month jail terms. Of the Vatican document Reidy said: "The wording is very strong and certainly goes against the spirit of the legislation."

The limits of diversity

On the other side of the Atlantic, December saw a victory for Christians. In Michigan, U.S. District Judge Gerald Rosen upheld the right of a Christian student to express her religious beliefs in opposing homosexuality, reported a Dec. 5 press release by the Thomas More Law Center.

The law center had filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of Betsy Hansen as a result of a dispute over the 2002 Diversity Week program held at the Ann Arbor Pioneer High School. School authorities censored the speech to be given by Hansen, a Catholic, as part of the activities of the "Homosexuality and Religion" panel. Officials claimed that her religious view toward homosexuality was a "negative" message and would "water down" the "positive" religious message that they wanted to convey -- that homosexual behavior is not immoral or sinful.

School officials also only allowed clergy who espoused a pro-homosexual position to take part in the panel, denying Hansen's request to have a panel member who would express the Catholic position on homosexuality.

"This case presents the ironic, and unfortunate, paradox of a public high school celebrating 'diversity' by refusing to permit the presentation to students of an 'unwelcomed' viewpoint on the topic of homosexuality and religion, while actively promoting the competing view," observed Judge Rosen in his decision.

Another case, still to be finalized, involves a Colorado mother who left a lesbian relationship after converting to Christianity in 2000. Cheryl Clark is appealing a ruling by Denver County Circuit Judge John Coughlin to "make sure that there is nothing in the religious upbringing or teaching that the minor child is exposed to that can be considered homophobic," the Washington Times reported Nov. 5.

Her former partner, Elsey McLeod, was awarded joint custody of the child, an 8-year-old girl.

Matthew Staver, president of Liberty Counsel, a public-interest law firm based in Orlando, Florida, has filed a friend-of-the-court brief in the case. He commented that the judge gave no similar orders to McLeod regarding remarks or teaching about Christianity or Christians. "It's a real one-way street on this," Staver said.

Vancouver bishop targeted

Controversy regarding criticism of homosexuals has been increasingly common in Canada. A recent case involves the Archdiocese of Vancouver. The Vancouver Sun reported Sept. 24 that the archdiocese canceled a long-standing partnership with VanCity Credit Union, owing to the fact that the institution actively supports the local gay and lesbian community.

The turning point for Archbishop Adam Exner was an ad campaign by the credit union, featuring a homosexual couple. Consequently the archbishop put an end to a VanCity program operating in four Catholic schools. Under the program, students learned out to save and invest their money and opened savings accounts with the credit union.

A document posted on the archdiocese Web site explained the reasons for the decision. "VanCity in its advertising and by its sponsorship has publicly manifested its support for agendas which are worrisome and harmful to the Church and to society," said the statement signed by Archbishop Exner. "Any cooperation with an organization that publicly supports such agendas appears unacceptable."

The decision drew strong criticism, as Archbishop Exner noted in a letter published Oct. 1 by the Vancouver Sun. When news of the move became public, it "opened the floodgates to letters, e-mails, phone calls and faxes, alleging everything from bigotry to fascism," he said. "I found myself accused of teaching intolerance and hatred of homosexuals -- something contrary to Catholic teaching and my own convictions."

Not-so-free speech

David Bernstein, professor at George Mason University School of Law, addressed the topic of how antidiscrimination laws are creating problems for free speech in his recent book, "You Can't Say That!" Fear of litigation, he observed, "is having a profound chilling effect on the exercise of civil liberties in workplaces, universities, membership organizations, and churches."

Bernstein related how one U.S. Catholic university was beaten down by legal actions into giving full recognition to student homosexual groups. And citing several recent legal cases in Canada, he commented: "Indeed, it has apparently become illegal in Canada to advocate traditional Christian opposition to homosexual sex."

Things have been ‘crazy’ in San Francisco the last few days.  Homosexuals are still lined up (in the rain today) to get “marriage” licenses at City Hall.  Another thing we all knew was coming; homosexuals no longer want to be called homosexual.  It seems the term is too “clinical” for their superiorly diverse mindset.

The link below will take you to a San Francisco Chronicle “news” story outlining the many “diverse” descriptions homosexuals want ‘others’ to use when referring to homosexuals.
I will caution you – even though it was printed in a “family newspaper” I, personally found parts of it offensive.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/02/08/MNGKO4RNJP1.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/02/08/MNGKO4RNJP1.DTL)

*shakes head*
i read part of that article JN and i have to say it makes me tired just trying to make sense of it all, I have to agree with you some is definitly offensive, We had a province in canada that was allowing that to and there were people from all over the stated and canada and other places coming to get  "married"  makes me sick :-X
Ty for sharing JN
TL

Sadly so very sadly i will not go to the City again. I wish my childhood memories to remain imprinted in my vision. The City has gone so depravied i can not pretend i dont see what i see...


Judge next time you walking across the street look at the police markings  painted on the curbs. They have a heavy communistic look to em ... What do you think...

I happen to live in that province. Not only is it sad, it offends God. Thankfully, our church is not required to perform those marriages. but will there come a day when the law says we must?

When we voice our objection to the immorality around us, we are condemned by "society". What is it the bible says about persecution?




Stand for Christ
Be long suffering

In Christ

Gracey

another canadain.. very cool! ;D
yes there will come a time,, my father is a pastor and he was at one point in time able to marry people.. due to having issus with this sort of thing he let his marrying license go, so he can bury but he cannot by law marry, sad, very sad..,
TL

Hm, thank you tigerlily.  'Sure didn't realize that about our ministers--tho it certainly makes sense.

thank you, corpus.   Whew.  


JudgeNot.  Reba.   :-[   Thank you.

onestarfisher.......hmm.......wow....thank you..

nice post.  On what you're doing.   What do I think?  Hm.  

I started a thread, "Terrible Question", under Current Events, it asks about how to go about, just what you are now doing!!

Giving me some very good ideas; also for mine, "High Noon", under "What Are You Doing" column, here.  

I think those are some very good idea, onestar.  And you are going about it with the right spirit, I think, ever ready with the Gospel message, your tracts.

It sounds like to me you are going about it in the right way, and thought out too.

OK, I'm with the majority of you guys in reference to practicing homosexuality being an abomination to Our Lord.  But here's a question:

What about the animals observed that are homosexual or bisexual?  There's supposedly a small percentage of animals that are.  I used my search window months ago and just typed in animal homosexuality and, to my amazement, I couldn't read it all.

What y'all think about this?



 

Homosexuality is a choice with humans. It does not matter whether it is biological, infused from environmental upbringing, or learned behavior.
Humans can choose to come out of it and retrain their behaviour. It should be easier to do if a Godly life is chosen.

Animals do not have choices as humans do if their homosexuality or bi-sexuality is biological instinct.
However God gave man the ability to choose and make judgements and not live by instinct alone. Man can choose the wrong path or the right path. It is God that sets the standard for man of what is the wrong path and what is the right path.

Pray for all sinners that God through His Holy Spirit will reveal the right path to be chosen. That of Jesus the Christ of God.

Fact, not opinion:

“Homosexual” animals actually act to strengthen the herd.  Let’s take caribou as an example.  Caribou that show tendencies opposite to those which strengthen the herd through positively enhancing herd population, are “shunned” – forced to the outside of the main group, where they become easy prey for polar and grizzly bears; thus improving the overall gene pool by sparing a more prominent animal from the very jaws of death, enabling them to reproduce.  

(FYI – this natural action by the Caribou is not exclusive toward those who show “homosexual” tendencies – but to any of the herd which is perceived to be “weak”.)

 

Ha-ha!  ;D  ;D

readyforrapture; I might add - whether Bush or Gore won an election is one matter that is widely disputable.  Whether homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord, is totally different, and IS worthy of discussion on this forum.  (In my humble but STRONG opinion.)   ;D

The Bible addresses homosexuality.  The Bible does not address one's opinions of elections.

And by the by, Mr. Ready:
Jesus and God are ALWAYS capitalized (as you were told by Mr. BEP when you were using your earlier, offensive, username).  Please do not demean our Lord by using lowercase letters when referring to Him.

Thanks!  :)

Raptureready,

 A question for you.  You seem to have  knowledge of stripture so tell me in the words of Jesus all He says about rapture.

Hello all
this is my first day here and I would like to put in my thoughts on this subject, but first to the guy who thinks the old testament is done and over  what about Jesus saying I did not come to destroy the law but to fufill it.  I tell you the truth not one word will be taken out.  Sorry quoting from memory at the moment so its not perfect but close enough.

anyways the problem with Gay marriage is not just that we Christians dont like it or even simply that it is a sin.  We all need to remember that we are all sinners and have fallen short of the glory of GOd.    
The following in a summary of why we as Christians and as a country must not allow this.
First with respect to Civil rights
1. In the united states the civil rights which we all enjoy are rooted in "the laws of Nature and of Natures God"(see constitution)  in the unalienable rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
2. The unique source for unalienable rights is the Creator, the God of the Bible.
3. The Creator defines true marriage as one man and one woman in mutual fidelity.  The health of society and well being of children are rooted in this foundation.  Thus the Source for unalienable rights also gives us the true definition of marriage.
4. In human history, no society rootied in the approval of homosexuality has ever produced unalienable rights for the larger social order.

Same sex marriage has been put fourth most often as a civil right.  But such a "right" cannot be rooted in the unalienable rights given by the creator, and as well same sex marriage is historically unprecedented.  Also same sex marriage redifines marriage downward and indeed it aims for a definition closer to open marriage where mutual fidelity is not expected.  This in the view of such an extream idea, its advocates need to answer these questions
1. are civil rights being redifined
2. if so why
3.if so what is the new basis for these rights
4. what are the consequences
If these questions can not be answered with clarity and historical precedence a legitamate argument for same sex marriage has not been made


In summary God gives us inallienable rights  if anyone were to give them they could be taken away but God gives them to us so they are inalienable       Civil rights are always rooted in inalienable rights.    Same sex marriage goes against God therefore they can not become a right without erasing our basis for inalienable rights.     There is no other way to have inalienable rights if not given by an almighty God.

We as Christians MUST come along side of gays and love them.  Not be nasty to them.  They are dealing with a powerful sin in their lives and understandable are suffering a lot.  A statistic you may find interesting is that over 90% of all women who call themselves lesbian were abused (usually sexually)by a father or significant male role model in their younger years.  Their homosexuality was just a bad way of dealing with a terrible wrong that was done to them.  Gay men have simular stats.    We would all do ourselves good to become more educated on these issues.  Knowing your against it isnt good enough.  We must be able to give reasons and that means more than just God said so.  

A long post for my first one but this is an issue I am very concerned with.
Thanks

    TRICK QUESTION!

    Paul REVEALED the RAPTURE! PAUL reveals the "mysteries"!

    Don't resort to trick questions, what does that accomplish? Nothing! Look at all the things Paul revealed to use that Jesus did not, in his own words. Jesus used Paul. Listen to Paul!!

                                                   Paul2 ::)

You're totally WRONG and here's why:

Matthew 5 (this is JESUS speaking, BTW)
20   For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Paul goes on to elaborae in ICo 6:9-11   " Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10   Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11   And such were some of you: but ye are washed, (aka made "righteous" duh) but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

ICo 15:50 expounds a little further....
50   Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption (aka unrigtheousness) inherit incorruption.

Rev 21:27   And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

And finally, Lev 18:22 again defines what actually constitutes abomination - one abomination, there are several in the bible.
22   Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.24   Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

Now, you can twist and pervert that all around all you want to, but save it for someone who really gives a rip, because the only one buying it is YOU, and that to your own eternal destruction. Why wouldn't you want heaven? You'd rather try to cling to self deception than inherit eternal life. Amazing.

SIMPLE. We live in a fallen world full of corruption that extends even to the animal kingdom. Before the fall of Adam (and mankind with him), there was no death, no killing, animals were not afraid of man, and they didn't eat or attack each other. So why WOULDN'T perversion (aka homosexuality) enter into the animal kingdom as well? Why would they escape it?

welcome, onestar.  'appreciate your posts...

I was just noting this earlier:


onestarfisher
Newbie

Posts: 4
    Re:Homosexual marriages
« Reply #59 on: February 15, 2004, 11:13:33 PM »    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wanted your opinion on something (the Christians only, please!) I posted the following message the other day under Debate, but I think I should have put it here. I want to know what you think? (about what I did below) Is it right? Is it wrong? We're supposed to declare the truth, but how do you do that without "condemning?" And what is the difference between preacing righteousness, as they say Noah did, and exhorting against the evils of the day - and condemnation? I posted the suggestion below in another discussion board, and the homosexuals who wanted to cling to their sin jumped all over me....they clearly want to justify homosexuality, and they kept the few Christians in there busy.....what do you think?

"This is my first post. I have a suggestion. Especially now that the issue has really heated up in Massachusetts. I live in Arizona and this is what I have been doing the last few days….I took a white or light colored T shirt, old or new doesn’t matter, and some permanent makers. You can even buy markers for fabric at Walmart but any permanent will do. Put wax paper inside the shirt while you write.

On the front of the shirt, I printed in giant letters HOMOSEXUALITY  IS  A  SIN  Underneath that I put, Choose Life, Repent, Change and God Loves You in various places.
On the back of the shirt I wrote GAY ‘MARRIAGE’ WILL NEVER BE LEGAL IN GOD’S EYES  -  NEVER  EVER        WAKE  UP
I varied the sizes of the lettering for effect and  colored in some of the letters in the colors of the rainbow and drew a couple of those on there as well.

Then I wore my shirt to some busy places. and into busy stores (without a coat over it!) From people’s response so far, I would say it is a success. Jaws drop. Or people whisper – or ignore. I mean, isn’t it time we spoke up? I’m ready to discuss it with them, though, because I’m no better than they are. We are all sinners who need a savior.

I want to encourage you to go BE  SALT and light in the world. Don’t stay silent. Tell other people, especially people in Massachusetts. Post your successes stories…..

I want to encourage others to try this. There's really nothing store owners or anyone can do because it isn't a placard - it's a t shirt.
And, your topic could be anything, not necessarily this one."

I'm still rethinking it. I thought I would get into more conversations with people, but most people were shocked speechless and most averted their eyes. I saw mouths drop to knees. I don't know that I looked loving, although I was trying to. I have to admit, marching into the Starbucks in the heart of a town run by a gay mayor during the morning rush and only a couple of blocks from City Hall was exhilarating.

Also walked down the street facing traffic, because you can read the printing at least 20 to 40 feet away. After that, it was to the public library. Walked right past 2 cops inside, who never would have let me in with a sign that size. Then off to a busy restaurant where you have to walk around to get to the buffet. The a store with several homosexual employees - they were taking turns walking by to look at the front and back of the shirt. One of the guys asked me about it and I did get a chance to witness a little to him and give him a tract.

 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2004, 11:25:52 PM by onestarfisher »
 

Hmmm, just noticing, onestar's post #75 was edited by bep, it says there.

Was just wondering, what did onestar say?  Just wondering...


    ???

Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony,

It was a quote from a user who was banned. Since the homosexual threads were reactivated, many of the older posts violate the current forum rules. I deleted those posts and removed quotes from those posts, primarily posts by users who were banned.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Thank you, bep.

Wow.  That's a chore.  Whew.  Hard work, bep.  


To go through and have to decide.  :-[

Well syphony you asked for responses so here it goes.  I believe what you did was absolutly wrong.  Yes we are always to speak the truth but in LOVE.  The bible tells us that we should be ready in season and out of season to give reasons for what we believe.  It does not tell us to shove it down someones throat.  However if I thought it would work I would probable do it.  The problem is no one will understand and accept Christ if we try to stuff it to them.  The only way they can understand Christs love is if we show it to them.  
Homosexuals are the same.  They dont need us to keep telling them its wrong.  In their heart of hearts they already know its wrong.  We need to help them out of the sin that is destroying them.  If we can show how Christ will truely set them free they will turn to him.  
You yourself said you probably didnt look very loving.  Do you feel that your display would change a single persons view point or did you do it out of anger over the issue?  As Christians we need to focus our efforts on helping homosexuals personally and on the issue of same sex marriage we must keep ourselves fully informed and up to date.  The more we understand about the agenda the more we can do to stop it in its tracks.  Please go back and read my earlier post a day or two ago.

Thank you, beanc:

We as Christians MUST come along side of gays and love them.  Not be nasty to them.  They are dealing with a powerful sin in their lives and understandable are suffering a lot.  A statistic you may find interesting is that over 90% of all women who call themselves lesbian were abused (usually sexually)by a father or significant male role model in their younger years.  Their homosexuality was just a bad way of dealing with a terrible wrong that was done to them.  Gay men have simular stats.    We would all do ourselves good to become more educated on these issues.  Knowing your against it isnt good enough.  We must be able to give reasons and that means more than just God said so.


Many of the meanest killers in the world, Beanc, on death row, in any number of maximum security prisons, started out similarly--as little children affected by various horrific abuses.   Using you logic, we shouldn't punish or curtail them?  We should instead just "love them"?   How would you suggest we go about that?


Slogans on shirts are very common, Beanc.  Are you saying that the stuff you see written on them is being "shoved down my throat"?

Other people seem to be free to wear shirts with things written on them--from the safe, like "Chicago Cubs", to, I imagine, the profane and obsene.   No one seems to be saying they're forcing that down anyone's throats.

But strangely, if I just write short slogans like what one star is mentioning, like a Bible verse,  then, all of a sudden, I'm forcing THAT down other people throats.


Hmmm


I fail to see how what onestar is doing is not being done in love.  She takes all the risk.  She hands them a tract if they ask.  

And don't children WANT to be told when they are wrong?

That's what some in the gay movement are literally screaming for--for someone to just tell them they are wrong.

No one--or very few, seem to be telling them that!

"Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them."  Ephesians 5:11   :)

I don't think onestar is condemning anyone.  Just because you tell someone they're wrong, doesn't mean you're condemning them.

Homosexuals are wrong.  They're as wrong as a three-dollar bill.

That doesn't mean I be mean to them, etc.  

But it does mean I confront it.

Thank you, Jesus.

Symp,


 A man  sees a train coming down the track the "loving" thing to do is to quietly and gently walk up to the child setting on the tracks and ask her if she would like to please remover her now dead self.   The loving thing to do is grab the child or even throw her out of harms way maybe she even gets a broken arm..

'Loving ' means different things at different times. Loving can be as wonderful as CHOCOLATE or as healthy as brussel sprouts.

Christians has set back and done not much for too long. Could be this would be out of line for Bean and be just what you should do.  ;)

AMEN!

Sister Reba, that was a great analogy. The circumstances would dictate what true love would be. Yes, there are many that a sitting on the tracks with the train coming.

The reality is NOT an analogy, rather the blunt truth. Many are speeding on the road of eternal destruction. What would Christian love dictate, especially when they are trying to take on passengers for the trip?

They were to be stoned and stopped in the Old Testament. We owe them a rebuke and the blunt truth as a minimum. Anything less is doing them more harm and encouraging them to continue on their merry way, possibly at a higher speed.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Well, we are to warn them (anyone) because the wages of sin is death. We are to warn them. Even knowing that most will still continue their headlong and willful rush to eternal death. There's two sides to it: attracting people to Jesus and His love, and warning people by talking about sin and it's penalty.

Oklahoma Howdy to Onestarfisher,

This conversation could be compared to the old debate about corporal punishment of children. I don't want to shift the discussion to that old debate, but I would like to comment on it. Does a Christian give their child a swat on the rear in hate or in love? Who benefits from the correction if it succeeds? Is there a connection between Christian love and what a Christian does sharply or in the form of a rebuke? Yes, I think there is. Christian love is not always giving someone a hug and telling them they are doing fine. Christian love is also not ignoring something that is eternally destructive.

There is confusion and condemnation in what some Christians do by the world, especially when a Christian takes a stand on what is wrong and tells the blunt truth. I used the term "World" on purpose. The devil does not like it when Christians call sin "SIN". Those who are living in darkness may not like it either, but that should not be the concern of a Christian. In other words, Christian love must be tough love in many cases.

Love In Christ,
Tom  

"Christian love is not always giving someone a hug and telling "them they are doing fine. Christian love is also not ignoring something that is eternally destructive.

There is confusion and condemnation in what some Christians do by the world, especially when a Christian takes a stand on what is wrong and tells the blunt truth. I used the term "World" on purpose. The devil does not like it when Christians call sin "SIN". Those who are living in darkness may not like it either, but that should not be the concern of a Christian. In other words, Christian love must be tough love in many cases."

Amen. It's hard to speak the truth in love. Know that you are swimming upstream, and there is a lot of opposition from, I hate to say it, other Christians. I would differentiate it though, from that Fred Phelps guy who has horrid signs saying "God hates fags" etc - that I totally disagree with, and can't see where there is any love in that. I think the right attitude to take is to picture them, or anyone else, for that matter, in some other sitution - like them sitting in the street and seeing a runaway bus headed right for them - what would we do to convince them they were in trouble? We would push them out of the way if we could, but what if we couldn't? Maybe we are in a wheelchair or something - THEN what would we do? We'd have to talk fast, it has to be their choice - and explain the seriousness of the situaton....(rather than trying to attract them off the road) what if the person got mad and said, there's nothing wrong with sitting in the middle of the street, and that's where I like to be.....who are you to judge me and tell me I'm going to die?? What, do you think you're better than me? I think the problem might be partly that we don't really believe the wages of sin is death - if we did, wouldn't we speak up a little more? I'm talking to myself as well here.....

For 10 years I worked maintance in a small water bottling plant. The best job i ever had i was able to use my 'troubleshooting skills! The working owners of the company were a 'couple'.  We talked... they knew my beliefs very clearly. The were not the in your face kinda guys. The gospel was shared often. They no longer own the company and i am retired they still drop an email. When i remember, i pray for them.  


I questioned  God and myself often  should i work here?  God sent me here.  Did God send me here? Why would God send me to such a place? I have prayed to be in His will sure He sent me ... back and forth

Dealing with people one on one and dealing with an issue are not the same.  I saw their fear, their cover up, very rich sad people. I dont know how to say this... the bible says this is sin so it is no doubt,  and knowing these guys personaly i 'know again' how sinfull and damaging it is. ( reba logic can be goofie)


Your thoughts One and BEP are right on...

Thanks Tom, Amen

Your friend and brother

The Crusader
<:)))><

Amen Reba. I've worked a lot with homosexuals also - one of them was in upper management at our company also. Several were, actually. And also a lot of the staff. Come to think of it, the Jehovah's Witnesses were busy leaving the Watchtower lying around, the cross dresser was bringing in his photo album and carrying a purse, the satanists would bring in their bible, etc etc.

At work I left it alone - I don't think work is the place for confrontation or passing out tracts (unless you leave them anonymously in the restroom, or payphone hehe) (or unless you're financially self sufficient! ;-) - but more for a witness in your life. I wouldn't lie about how I believed, but I didn't initiate the conversations. I just wore a small cross pin that says "paid in full" or "Jesus is Coming" pin, off to the side, so they wouldn't confuse it with the popular neck crosses EVERYONE wears. They know already where you're coming from, and they basically steer clear. I think befriending them at work is the best course. Showing kindness, etc. That seems to work the best with everyone at work...
I used to take the bus with one gay guy who really was a neat guy otherwise, and he would never even take a tract. He'd just laugh and wouldn't pick it up.

I will say this about work though, (I'm no longer there, but not because of any persecution, I quit to do something else)....anyway, I have spoken up at work when the occasion was right. And I have given out tracts to different individuals only when it became clear it was really hard to get fired there.  If other people bring up some subject related to Christianity or issues, they all look at you in a challenging fashion sometimes you have to speak up. I've done that.

onestar:  Know that you are swimming upstream, and there is a lot of opposition from, I hate to say it, other Christians

Yes. Especially if Christians from other churches start to say to their ministers, "Hey, I think they've got something there.  Shouldn't we be doing the same?"  Then their clergy get all jealous.  Clergy are intensely jealous of one another's turf.   If you start to have "success", with people turning from their ways, etc., my guess is that you'll likely receive flak from the churches as much as you will from other authorities or citizens.  In most communities, it seems, respective turfs are worked out historically far in advance between the competing religious, social and gov't bodies;  you walk into the midst of that at your peril, it seems.  They'll do to you what they did to Jesus--and some of them will do it in the name of Jesus.  That to me, is what possibly this gay thing could grow into--in the Name of Jesus.  That may be unlikely, as so far my feeling is most gays are immediately turned off by the mere mention of Jesus.  Still, I don't know that like Gibson's Passion may not in fact become a rallying cry for persecuted gays.

Yes, in any event, it's a narrow, razor's edge we walk, in all of this.  


Time mag. article:

I Do ... No, You Don't!
Why San Francisco's brash mayor is taking on Schwarzenegger and Bush over gay marriage
By CHRIS TAYLOR / SAN FRANCISCO

http://www.time.com   (for some reason I can't get the exact article link...)

onestar:  I think the problem might be partly that we don't really believe the wages of sin is death - if we did, wouldn't we speak up a little more? I'm talking to myself as well here.....

Yes, myself included, in western materialistic culture, we've been sanitized right down to the narcotics and morphine to help us escape any discomfort--all of our "inventions" to help us escape--from technology to creature comforts to entertainments---all screaming out at us that there is no death, or there is no hell, or there are no consequences.

So we become so comfortable we don't believe in consequences, fattening us all up for the kill.

Onestar, I wish there were a way to see your shirts.  Maybe you could get photos of them on here or something.

Well it aint a lightning strike ya dead this minute type of death. Man aways has some silly idea he can out smart God. But dead is dead.

Queer eye for the Straight Guy, beating out all other programming, this evening.  (from drudgereport.com, this evening).

I've heard them recently on a family-oriented, big-city commercial radio station, advertising their "success".

Someone has a strange idea of "family-oriented".  Possibly a 'tolerance demanding' liberal's idea of how we should think as opposed to how we do think?

Maybe someone's family - not mine.  ;D

I hate to belabour the point of t shirts, but after reading in various threads, I'm back on it. #1 We aren't going to convince the public that they are wrong. #2 We are to witness in public and preach the gospel (not necessarily singling out any particular sin) It is the foolishness of preaching that God uses (not a movie as a replacement, I might add). So we should be preaching (if you're called to that)

but just because they won't change because we tell them something is wrong doesn't mean we aren't supposed to keep telling them. I for one would just as soon hibernate in my house and read last days things and not go out into the fray. But when I do that, the Lord is unhappy with me. I don't really want to be out there in the misery, especially speaking. But I really believe it is wrong to be silent - about this or what ever other sins they are trying to cram down our throats. Homosexuality is yesterday's abortion. Issue wise. When abortion was first legalized, I think there were a lot more speaking out. We have to confront the issues, but I think it is more along the lines of John the Baptist or Jeremiah. They spoke out against sin. But John the Baptist also warned of the One Who is to come. It isn't enough for us to speak out against the issues - we have to have a reason, and that is to warn them of Who is to come.

So my point was twofold. We are supposed to preach and to warn. And also, even though we will never successfully squelch homosexuality, I think we need to raise up standared against it - and what better way to let them know how you feel than a t shirt? (or a hat, or a bumper sticker or...)

Good point, JudgeNot.  

Amen, onestar.

We have to keep reminding when and where we can.  Actually, I'm looking forward to what I can do, when or where.

I think we want to be "helpful"--we have to help people up and out of their blindness, when and where we can.

The Chink in the Armor......I was thinking the last few days that the gays have really shot themselves in the foot. What do I mean? There is all this talk now about the kids in school (even grammar school, I read) "exploring" their sexuality, trying it out both ways, to see if maybe they "are" gay...

So right there goes the homosexuals whole arguement. They have portrayed their sexual preference as something they were born with and tried to compare it to race - but this whole thing with the youth clearly ruins their whole premise. When was the last time you heard of an African American trying out his race to see if he was one? Or a caucasian the same? If you're born a certain way, you can't "try it out" to see for certain. It isn't something that's "discovered" Duh.

Yes, there's all sorts of examples of the hypocrisy of it all--not to mention city mayors disobeying state laws.

I don't think the gays are going to acknowledge any of it; since theirs is not an argument, but a behavior.  They just want what they want, regardless.  Logic will increasingly have little to do with it.  This is what I mean by the "krystallnactch, 1938" thread here, seperately.

Increasingly opposition to them will be met with hysteria.  That's why apparently there will be little opposition--at least openly.  It very much like the Brownshirts of 1930s Germany.  They didn't have guns*, and didn't have legal authority(yet), but they could make things very difficult for you, if you didn't agree with them.  You were being watched; they set up neighborhood informants who'd been your friend,, neighbor or maybe even family, for years.  ANd, if you are landed, or have property, etc., any stand you make makes you all the more juicy--civil suits, etc.  Ultimately, of course, it will be criminal, not just civil, to say anything--"hate speech".

But really, that's why we need to be going down now, I think.  I don't want to be a survivor, like post-War Germany, hanging my head at why I didn't say something.(Some DID speak out; some ministers did--some 500, who either disappeared or learned to stifle it.  A student group, known as the White Rose, in Munich, painted graffiti, late at night, "Hitler is a Mass Murderer" around town, 1942.  The student leaders, a twenty two year old, and his 20-year old sister, and several others, were cornered at the University there, arrested.  They were tried and executed on the same day, by the "Hanging Judge of Berlin", as he was known.  Death by guillotine.  February, 1943.

I always remember that now, since I read about it in the Time-Life series on WWII(1983 or 4).  Or, at least, I hope I don't forget.

This is how we seem to be becoming.  You don't dare say anything.  And everybody knows it is wrong--just like everybody knew it was wrong to be exterminating people.  But no one there said anything.  Well, a few did.

Strange.  No one here today remembers any of that.  Or really cares about it.

And the funny thing about homosexuality, it's not really a "party", like the Nazis were--that is, an identifieable group, running for office, etc.  Homosexuals are everywhere, and they creep into your own family, and your own home.  And their argument is much more insidious, it seems.  Almost as if the Nazies, etc, 70 years ago, were a mere dress rehearsal.

And now they're getting wholesale endorsement, from upon high--from our government, and the corporate world, and even a "mainstream 'Christian'" church.

_______________


*Dale here has just cited an Encyclopeida article saying the Nazis had machine guns early, 1923...

How many of us who know this and abortion are against God’s Holy Word, hang around for pleasant talk with homosupporters and baby killers? I have seen it here at CU.

Is there a line? Do we have friends we just don’t bring up the subject with to avoid the unpleasantness. A lady very active in her church, She speaks at aglow meetings across the country. Vote for democrats, She is mom’s friend and mom wont challenge her on this point. I cop out and don’t because she is mom’s friend. This so called Christian lady votes for the death of children, and pro gay.  I have ‘sorta’ friends who are gay I feel I should do more then just make sure they know my stance on their lifestyle. But I bet I don’t ….

Where is line between the sinner and the sin?

Reba –
I know the point of “love the sinner, hate the sin” has been clichéd.  But in the case you mention (as well as dozens of others we each run into everyday) – nothing else fits.  If I ignored everyone who voted liberal I would have little interaction with anyone for 14 hours a day.  I think it is important that:
1)  We know Jesus is our person Light
2)  We ACT as if we know Jesus as our person Light (reflect Him in our actions)
3)  Treat them as Jesus would treat them (our HARDEST task as Christians)
4)  When asked, WITNESS (and sometimes when we aren’t)!

If we are Christian, we are leaders – that is a fact we can not ignore.  Good leaders lead by example (as Christ did).  

(Reba – I know you’ve heard this millions of times before – and I know I’m ‘preaching to the choir’ – I just thought it needed to be said for the 20-millionth time.)  

If it is hard to be nice to someone – more often than not it means it is hard to love them.  We have been commanded to love everyone…

The line you speak of is there, and it is important we recognize it - but we will never, as you and I agree, change anyones mind by shoving a sign in their face with big block letters reading "You Are Going To HELL!"  
It won't work.

When you don't confront someone you aren't necessarily "copping out" - you probably aren't confronting them because the time isn't right?

Well, certainly these are the questions those students there in The White Rose were confronting.  Interestingly, both of them, the brother and sister, had been active in their respective Hitler Youth.  They secretly conspired, with other youth, in various German cities.  They were made an example of.

Sure, as JudgeNot points out, there's a time, and a nontime, I suppose.

Diplomacy has a place.  Paul says we are to rebuke.  But he also asks that we be a sweet smelling aroma.

The total mix, of exactly how to do it, isn't cut and dried.  We still exist, here in U.S., anyway, with constitution guarantees.  We aren't a police state yet.  

That's why the shirt idea is making good sense to me.  It doesn't have to be vindictive, or malicious.  Indeed, we are to be a blessing to those around us.  Jesus reminds in John 3:17 He came not to condemn.

So when, and where, and how to do the shirt, etc., are part of the mix--at least for me.  Sure, sometimes you must abandon all caution, full steam ahead.  

But as we walk in the spirit, count nothing as our own, even our lives, then we will "know".  But it takes careful walking in His path, realizing who we are(or who we are not :-X).  In recognition of our own nothingness, I think is where we find our true answers, and his light shines through us, unhindered.

Regardless of whether the issue is homosexuality, or other vices, we still are to be salt to those around us.

Why didn't we put anti-abortion stuff on our shirts, then, before, or anti-divorce, etc?   Why not then?  Why now?

Perhaps it's just that certainly somewhere, at least where we certainly still have free speech, it is incumbent on us to draw the line--lest otherwise we be complicit!!??   Doesn't the free speech clause iimply complicity, if we remain silent, when we could have said something?

Well, for me, it certainly does.  Lord willing, I be able to say and do much.  Or, gradually, I am at least beginning to work on this.  Maybe it's just here that I would draw the line.  I have complained about the wholesale divorce, and abortion, in Letters to the Editor--which were published.  That didn't win me any friends.   But this gay thing seems to be where I need to get it onto something I'm actually wearing.  

I am most bothered by those who claim His name and disreguard His Word.


Yup Symp

Symph & Reba & Crusader & Onestarfisher & Ebia & A4C and the rest at C-Unite:
Amen.

I wish we could meet after church, some Sunday afternoon, for ice cream and coffee.  We could have such a dynamic conversation as to change history.








Don't laugh:  The American revolution began with:
1) A guy who was good with words, (Thomas Pain)
2) A brewer/rebel rouser, (Sam Adams)
3) A silversmith/rebel rouser (Paul Revere)
4) A lawyer (choke) who didn’t want to get involved (John Adams).  
5) An oppressive government  :-X

Thank you all for your points of view- they are indeed cherished and thought upon.  God bless us all, and God bless C-Unite.

JN

Actually, my analogy is not a false one. It is the analogy that the homosexuals are using to try and legalize abberation

Symphony, you could go wear your shirt in a big city somewhere to try it out before you wore it in your hometown.....

About all of this - I read another board where they are quick to say (not about me, because I haven't said anything), Oh, you can't condemn anybody (but Jn 3:18 I think says you are condemned already if you don't believe); or they say, sinners already know they are in sin. (do they? why are they flaunting it?) Or, don't confront sinners with sin. I totally agree with Judge Not that you don't shove a sign in their face that says they're going to hell.....but what about preaching a strong message? Jonathan Edwards had a lot to say in his famous sermon......I don't think you can be loving enough to attract everyone to Christ - the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are real "loving" too....to be sure, we are to BE loving, etc, but I don't think we are to rely on that alone.

What I'm thinking right now is there is 1) preaching - where you preach about sin and hell and Jesus and forgiveness. That is where you condemn homosexuality, abortion, fornication, etc. 2) and there is talking to someone one on one, which is different.

the t shirts I think are more along the lines of preaching - although I've gotten into a couple of conversations one on one as a result....I'm thinking about Moses, when he came down with the ten commandments - the people had corrupted themselves. He came down with commandments that showed them their sin. Just thinking, more later maybe.

I had another idea, but this is really far-fetched. Remember hearing about "flash mobs?" Where hundreds or thousands suddenly show up somewhere and then disperse right away?

What about a christian flash "mob?" Like, in a public place where they won't allow a nativity, or the steps of a courthouse where gay marriages are being performed, or walking past an abortion clinic, or anywhere, really, a mall or sidewalk - everyone with Homosexuality is a Sin t shirts on.....it's probably outlandish to consider. Or, a shirt that says , Repent, Jesus is coming soon.....who knows.

Yep, comparing homosexual behaviour to what something a person is born with--like skin color--is the height of arrogance, prevarication and wholesale insult.

Homosexual "lifestyle"(how's that?--more like "death style") is no less a deliberate and willing choice, than having sex with animals is--unless now we are saying that too is unavoidable.

If indeed any heinous and debauched human behaviour is no longer unavoidable, then why have any "laws" at all.  We can't help our selves, so laws make no difference.

If laws make no difference, then we are members of the animal kingdom--a wolf will always be born a wolf; a dog will always be born a dog, and only does what his nature dictates.  He can't help it.  Animals know no law.

Hmm.  'Seems I've heard this somewhere before.  Let's see, wasn't someone named, um, ..."Darwin" was it.  Hmm, let's see, we're all just animals.

We can't help ourselves.  "Sorry, Officer, I was born that way.  Go arrest someone else."

   >:(

Celibacy is underrated.  It should be “advertised” as a viable option for people of any “persuasion”.  
Recovering alcoholics practice “celibacy” from alcohol.
Recovering junkies practice “celibacy” from heroin.
Recovering sex addicts can enjoy the same non-practice.

Homosexuality is an “addiction” to a certain practice that is sinful and unhealthy (STDs & AIDS are diseases of behavior).  

Jesus can deliver us from sinful lifestyles, if we want Him to.

Wrong again, Ebia. If one is attracted to the same sex, the choice is sin or celibacy. This is correct. Is that such a bad choice? Likewise, fornication is a sin. If one is attracted to the opposite sex, but isn't married, the choice is still the same - sin or celibacy. And homosexuals cannot fix the problem by "marrying."  Behavior is something you do. Based on how you feel. The homosexual lobby is attempting to base their argument along the lines of civil rights, attempting to align with the civil rights movement of the 60's. This is their idea,not mine. This is not behavior. This is stating one was born a certain way and can't help it so allowances should be made because the proclivity is on equal footing with being normal and how God intended. This is wrong. Even if we use your left hand right hand argument, it still falls apart - people have learned to change that. Not only that, but there is no "fault" between a left hand or a right hand preference.They are equally normal. Not so homosexuality. A more correct analogy if you insist on using body parts would be to compare someone having one head with someone having two. Clearly, only one was God intended.

I intend to ignore your posts from now on. I am only posting to encourage other brothers and sisters in Christ to speak up against homosexuality publically. If you don't choose to do that or are not a Christian, kindly ignore my posts or go over to another forum. Good day.

PS Get behind me, Satan. The Lord rebuke you.

Yep.  

And besides, we're giving entirely too much time or focus to the sex thing anyway.

Jesus Himself answered the Sadducees' question saying in heaven there is neither male nor female.

Our male/femaleness is a curse for us, in our fallen state.   We exacerbate that by focussing on it all the time.

I'm not sure that God cares one way or the other whether we marry.  Although the imagery of it is used extensively in Revelation,  the broader issues of life and death, perversion of His statutes, etc., leave the question of whether I ever marry or not in the dust.

The question of whether I marry or not is not very important to God.

I pray that the Lord helps you, Ebia, but I won't play your word and head games. I pray the Lord takes the bitterness from your heart and draws you very close to His heart and changes your life.

Exactly. He cares if we are sinning. And Paul stated it would be best to remain in whatever situation you find yourself. The homosexuals dilemma is that they cannot marry and make their lust legitimate. No matter how much they try to twist scripture.

I'm also thinking of shock value when I'm out in public. How would people respond if you said you wanted to marry your dog or at least kiss it in public, or their baby, or a small child, if you really bring it down and expand upon their basic intent (the right to flaunt abomination in public), it would shock some people......i think a little street skit would be a good illustration. They would be repulsed by that and then you could make the comparison....just thinking.

Is it possible to repulse the repulsive?

"...using absurdity to illustrate the absurd...?"

Gosh, I would sure hope so, but maybe not!

Maybe Reba's question is at the very basis of why God offered up His Son.

How could you beat a rebelling archangel's repulsion, on brute force alone, without becoming "repulsive" yourself?  

So instead, you "win" by instead loving so much, offering up your own Son(and coming back to life--or, that is, "surviving" capital punishment).

So God's method of conquering "repulsion", was to not become repulsive Himself.   Apparently the only way to do that is out of love, offering oneself as a "living sacrifice".  Satan can't accuse offering up your own Son, as a willing sacrifice, as being "repulsive"--if you "give" yourself up to them, how can that be "repulsive"?


I'm also thinking of shock value when I'm out in public. How would people respond if you said you wanted to marry your dog or at least kiss it in public, or their baby, or a small child, if you really bring it down and expand upon their basic intent (the right to flaunt abomination in public), it would shock some people......i think a little street skit would be a good illustration. They would be repulsed by that and then you could make the comparison....just thinking.

I'm wary of using "shock".  

I don't think putting "Homose'y is a sin" on your shirt, is being or using shock.

Saying "God hates fags"--yes, that's appealing to shock.  I don't agree with using that at all--even tho it may be true, in the same way He hates all sin.

Much of it--that is, our "witness", has to do with "how" we do it, I think--the spirit with which we do it.  It's very easy to adopt a contemptuous attitude, or malicious, or vendictive one.  But that's what Jesus came to save us from.

Jesus came to deliver us from all unrighteousness--including our own( :-X).  

There are no obstacles that can stand against that kind of love.

Preach on Symp! :)

RE: Homosexuals - God loves us all and wishes that none would perish .... and with that being said, I will say that it is my belief that when He sees humans acting blatantly sinful, no matter what they are doing, He hurts.  And God has already told us who will NOT be entering into Heaven in REV.21:8.  People have the option of scoffing at, or ignoring, this passage, but no matter how you might want to color it, the truth is always the truth, and it is Jesus Christ.

We must remember that there are christians and then there are CHRISTIANS, the difference is the submission of the entire heart to learn and do, not just sit in a pew.  We cannot sing HOW GREAT THOU ART on Sunday, and then the rest of the week sing HOW GREAT I AM.  And for real Christians who are truly devoted to the Lord in the Bible, we must not hate homosexuals....we must love them enough to do two things....1) lovingly tell them the truth when given the opportunity, and 2) pray for them, and pray for them, etc.  That is what God wants Christians to do.  Love, pray for and witness to.  I think it is impossible for a person who is a real Christian (follower of Christ) to be for anything that Christ is against - period!  Of course, that is just my humble opinion.

Ebia, I understand your frustration, and I agree that a sin is a sin is a sin.  But I might also add that liars do not normally stand out and blatantly tell you they are a liar, nor do cheaters, killers, etc.  If it seems that todays' church "picks on" homosexuals, it might be that the homosexuals of today are much more vocal and demanding about their acceptance.

I pray that I am wrong, but it seems that you might be leaning on the side of acceptance of homosexuality rather than describing it as the sin that the Bible says it is.  If that is the case, I would have to wonder how devoted you are to actually taking up your cross and following Jesus daily.  I am not trying to put you down, but I believe that if we call ourselves Americans, we must be "of America", and if we call ourselves Christians, we must be "of Christ", and if we are of Christ, we must be devoted to His principals and dictates.  Please forgive me for going on about this, I didn't mean to lecture, but your last input really hit a negative.  God bless you, Ebia.

Apparently, if you want any sort of response from me, you'll have to take it to another forum.  :-\

Don't mind ebia, Pastor Bruce, she's just being rebellious.   ;D


You hit the nail on the head, PB!   Gays want public mandate for their obvious and gross sin.  I don't know of any other human vices in that category--abortion maybe.  But not all abortions are results of immorality, necessarily.

Homosexuality is a first, in human history.  Not even the Greeks and Romans had an explicit legal code for it, tho they practiced it.

We're actually writing law for it.

Exactly!  They want an accepting and sympathetic audience for their sin!  I will not condemn them (but I will condemn their actions) and I will not judge their hearts – for I am not without sin.  But I can judge actions according to The Lord’s Word, and their actions are wrong.

Can we start calling you ‘Pastor Peanut Brother’???? ;D

(OK – you’ve NEVER heard that be before huh?)
 ;D

Re:Homosexual marriages
« Reply #119 on: March 15, 2004, 10:41:56 PM »    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
You hit the nail on the head, PB!  Gays want public mandate for their obvious and gross sin.
 


Exactly!  They want an accepting and sympathetic audience for their sin!  I will not condemn them (but I will condemn their actions) and I will not judge their hearts – for I am not without sin.  But I can judge actions according to The Lord’s Word, and their actions are wrong.

hey i found a subject that i agree with , man its tough living in libral ,boston.  i drive by the state house often were they are outside protesting for" = rights"  its just so upsetting i get sick discussing it. :'(
 

"We're actually writing law for it."

It is coming to the time when God's people will have to break civil law in order to keep God's.