Homosexual marriages

[2nd Timothy]

Under the law gay people were stoned.

[think of this for a while.... ]

[....  just a sec.... ]


And I would be standing next to them in the rally ;
I did New Age sorcery before I met Christ and His Power.

And I quote...

Rom 3:20-24
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. (THE GOOD NEWS) There is no difference,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
(NIV)

I find it interesting that so many christians do not understand this.   The law is provided to prove that NO-ONE is perfect.  It is impossible to keep the law.  God knew this when he gave it to Moses.  This is why Jesus had to fulfill the law by
by dying in our place.

Homosexuality is wrong, just as lying is wrong, or Adultry.  Jesus said even lusting in your heart makes you an adulterer.  We all deserve death by stoning.  Thank God Jesus took our place through Gods grace.

The Good News!

[2nd Timothy]

2nd Timothy's words are plain text
Mozilla's word are in bold text.


That is a dangerous and unscriptural cliche.  Does God punish the sin or the sinner?  The sinner of course, because the sin is within the sinner.  You cannot separate the two.

Sin died with Christ my friend.  Only through faith in that can WE escape the punishment.  

No wonder people who practise homosexuality feel outraged.

I've yet to see many outraged homosexuals.  There are plenty of homo activists that pretend to be outraged so someone will feel sorry for them.  I for one will not tolerate it.

I would not argue this, and never anywhere did I say we should tolerate it.

Some christians make this a personal attack on these people without making room at the cross for them as well.

Only an extremely small number of Christians have personally attacked a homosexual by physical means.

Again I would agree here.  I was speaking to those who chose to attack personally.

Jesus died for ALL of us.

Yes, but that doesn't mean ALL are saved.

Again I tottaly agree.

I'm not saying we shouldn't say sin is sin, but Jesus came to us in this life as good news.  Judgment comes later to those who don't reprent.  Go into all the world and preach the good news

We are not to tell homosexuals their lifestyle is acceptable just so they can get saved.  That would be a horrible thing to do.

There lifestyle is not acceptable, but how will any of us ever come to christ if we have make ourselves acceptable before we reach him?   If this were the case then Christs death was in vain.  We could save ourselves!

People who turn, turn because of the good news of Jesus Christ and his ability to rescue us from our hopeless lives.  

I think it's great if a homosexual repents.  But the "good news" presented to them better not be the wishy-washy (God loves you and will save you no matter what even if you are a practicing homosexual) gospel.

What are  you saying? that only homosexuals can never come to forgivness in Christ?  Sure they can.  Sin is sin no matter what the sin.   Christ died for ALL our sins, yes even the homosexuals.

Homosexuals must repent if the want to be saved.  And to repent means a 180° turn from their homosexual ways.[/b]

Here I am in total agreement with you.

We will not change peoples lives condeming them to hell without throwing them a life line.  Its one thing if they refuse to grab the life line, but its quite another if we laugh at them as they drown in their sin, while enjoying the comfort of our life boat.

Actually, we cannot condemn them to hell.  And we cannot throw them a life-line.

WE cannot save them, but WE must tell them the good news which saves them throwing them the lifeline of TRUTH, the cross, the hope, the GOOD NEWS!

That is something only God can do my friend.[/b]

God has ALREADY done it.  Its our job to share it.

Grace and Love!

[Mozilla]

What are  you saying? that only homosexuals can never come to forgivness in Christ?  Sure they can.

They sure can, and it's wonderful when they do.

Well 2Timothy,
It looks like we are basically in agreement.

So have a nice day!  

[Forrest]

You know I think I might be going a little off topic, but what do you guys think about Christians marrying non-christians? I know it happens. It doesn't make sense to me, but then again we are not supposed to hate the sinner, but the sin. So what does the bible say on that?

      I beleive this answers your question.

2COR 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

[Forrest]

What do you think about the High Court in the State of Massachusetts decreeing that homosexual marriages are constitutional?

I think the High Court is high alright.  Homosexuals should get the death penalty if found guilty of such immoral crime against our society.  That's what a good government like the one God established is supposed to do to homosexuals, execute them!

      Its responces like this that gives credence to the hate legelation thatwas passed a few years ago, and may be expanded to include speech.

[Forrest]

Oh, and there is no such thing as a homosexual marriage!

     The Mas. state supreme court has ruled to alow gay marriage, and by the constituion other stats basicly will have to reconise them.

[Mozilla]

I wrote:

I think the High Court is high alright.  Homosexuals should get the death penalty if found guilty of such immoral crime against our society.  That's what a good government like the one God established is supposed to do to homosexuals, execute them!

Forrest replies:

Its responces like this that gives credence to the hate legelation thatwas passed a few years ago, and may be expanded to include speech.

Forrest,
You should not be calling the truth "hate speech."  "Hate speech" is just more rediculous legislation coming out of a Washington that has lost its marbles.
I wrote:

Oh, and there is no such thing as a homosexual marriage!

Forrest replies:

The Mas. state supreme court has ruled to alow gay marriage, and by the constituion other stats basicly will have to reconise them.

Just because idiots serving on the Mass. S.C. have allowed gays to the have the same status as marriage, does not mean homosexual marriage exists.  It does not exist, and it cannot exist.  Marriage is between a man and a woman.

[Mozilla]

Leviticus 20:13 says, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Who thinks God was unloving for commanding that homosexuals be put to death?

I for one will not disagree with God.

[Mr. 5020]

Leviticus 20:13 says, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Who thinks God was unloving for commanding that homosexuals be put to death?

I for one will not disagree with God.

Mozilla, you believe the OT laws are still applicable?

[Forrest]

   For update on subject.
    http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/11/242003b.asp

       

        Below is a site that is trying to get an amendment to define marrage as between one man and one woman

          http://www.nogaymarriage.com/

[Ambassador4Christ]

  For update on subject.
    http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/11/242003b.asp

       

        Below is a site that is trying to get an amendment to define marrage as between one man and one woman

          http://www.nogaymarriage.com/

Good info Forrest, thanks Bro

[Symphony]

AP • New York Times • CBS • Photos
 
Mass. Court Clears Way for Gay Marriages
 
Feb 4, 5:07 PM (ET)

By JENNIFER PETER
 
(AP) Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court Chief Justice Margaret Marshall delivers the keynote address...
Full Image
 
BOSTON (AP) - The Massachusetts high court declared Wednesday that gays are entitled to nothing less than marriage and that Vermont-style civil unions will not suffice, setting the stage for the nation's first legally sanctioned same-sex weddings by the spring.

The court issued the advisory opinion at the request of legislators ...


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040204/D80GMQ581.html

[The Crusader]

I encourage all interested in this subject to check out "God and the Gays - What the Bible REALLY Says About Homosexuality" @ www.benariel.com

The Bible speaks against all premarital and extramarital sex, including but NOT limited to homosexuality. God wants every sexual sinner to go and sin no more: God wants to pardon and empower!

Thanks for the link David.

<))><

[The Crusader]

AP • New York Times • CBS • Photos
 
Mass. Court Clears Way for Gay Marriages
 
Feb 4, 5:07 PM (ET)

By JENNIFER PETER
 
(AP) Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court Chief Justice Margaret Marshall delivers the keynote address...
Full Image
 
BOSTON (AP) - The Massachusetts high court declared Wednesday that gays are entitled to nothing less than marriage and that Vermont-style civil unions will not suffice, setting the stage for the nation's first legally sanctioned same-sex weddings by the spring.

The court issued the advisory opinion at the request of legislators ...


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040204/D80GMQ581.html

Good one Symphony, thanks. ebia will think this is good for the queers.

[Corpus]

There are many arguments used by homosexual activists to justify and even lend moral credence to their lifestyle.

To discount the Old Testament scriptures, some homosexual activists have argued that moral imperatives from the Old Testament can be dismissed since there were certain ceremonial requirements at the time—such as not eating pork, or circumcising male babies—that are no longer binding.

While the Old Testament’s ceremonial requirements are no longer binding, its moral requirements are. God may issue different ceremonies for use in different times and cultures, but his moral requirements are eternal and are binding on all cultures.

Confirming this fact is the New Testament’s forceful rejection of homosexual behavior as well. In Romans 1, Paul attributes the homosexual desires of some to a refusal to acknowledge and worship God. He says, "For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. . . . Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them" (Rom. 1:26–28, 32).

Elsewhere Paul again warns that homosexual behavior is one of the sins that will deprive one of heaven: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 6:9–10, NIV).

All of Scripture teaches the unacceptability of homosexual behavior. But the rejection of this behavior is not an arbitrary prohibition. It, like other moral imperatives, is rooted in natural law—the design that God has built into human nature.

People have a basic, ethical intuition that certain behaviors are wrong because they are unnatural. We perceive intuitively that the natural sex partner of a human is another human, not an animal.

The same reasoning applies to the case of homosexual behavior. The natural sex partner for a man is a woman, and the natural sex partner for a woman is a man. Thus, people have the corresponding intuition concerning homosexuality that they do about bestiality—that it is wrong because it is unnatural.

Natural law reasoning is the basis for almost all standard moral intuitions. For example, it is the dignity and value that each human being naturally possesses that makes the needless destruction of human life or infliction of physical and emotional pain immoral. This gives rise to a host of specific moral principles, such as the unacceptability of murder, kidnapping, mutilation, physical and emotional abuse, and so forth.

To avoid the force of the natural law argument against homosexual behavior, some gay activists have offered a number of claims.

Many homosexuals argue that they have not chosen their condition, but that they were born that way, making homosexual behavior natural for them.

But because something was not chosen does not mean it was inborn. Some desires are acquired or strengthened by habituation and conditioning instead of by conscious choice. For example, no one chooses to be an alcoholic, but one can become habituated to alcohol. Just as one can acquire alcoholic desires (by repeatedly becoming intoxicated) without consciously choosing them, so one may acquire homosexual desires (by engaging in homosexual fantasies or behavior) without consciously choosing them.

Since sexual desire is subject to a high degree of cognitive conditioning in humans (there is no biological reason why we find certain scents, forms of dress, or forms of underwear sexually stimulating), it would be unusual if homosexual desires were not subject to a similar degree of cognitive conditioning.

Even if there is a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality (and studies on this point are inconclusive), the behavior remains unnatural because homosexuality is still not part of the natural design of humanity. It does not make homosexual behavior acceptable; other behaviors are not rendered acceptable simply because there may be a genetic predisposition toward them.

For example, scientific studies suggest some people are born with a hereditary disposition to alcoholism, but no one would argue someone ought to fulfill these inborn urges by becoming an alcoholic. Alcoholism is not an acceptable "lifestyle" any more than homosexuality is.

Homosexual activists often justify homosexuality by claiming that ten percent of the population is homosexual, meaning that it is a common and thus acceptable behavior.

But not all common behaviors are acceptable, and even if ten percent of the population were born homosexual, this would prove nothing. But the fact is that the ten percent figure is false. It stems from the 1948 report by Alfred Kinsey, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male. The study was profoundly flawed, as later psychologists studying sexual behavior have agreed. Kinsey’s subjects were drawn heavily from convicted criminals; 1,400 of his 5,300 final subjects (twenty-six percent) were convicted sex offenders—a group that by definition is not representative of normal sexual practices.

Furthermore, the ten percent figure includes people who are not exclusively homosexual but who only engaged in some homosexual behavior for a period of time and then stopped—people who had gone through a fully or partially homosexual "phase" but who were not long-term homosexuals. (For a critique of Kinsey’s research methods, see Kinsey, Sex, and Fraud, by Dr. Judith Reisman and Edward Eichel [Lafayette, Louisiana: Lochinvar & Huntington House, 1990].)

Recent and more scientifically accurate studies have shown that only around one to two percent of the population is homosexual.

Those opposed to homosexual behavior are often charged with "homophobia"—that they hold the position they do because they are "afraid" of homosexuals. Sometimes the charge is even made that these same people are perhaps homosexuals themselves and are overcompensating to hide this fact, even from themselves, by condemning other homosexuals.

Both of these arguments attempt to stop rational discussion of an issue by shifting the focus to one of the participants. In doing so, they dismiss another person’s arguments based on some real or supposed attribute of the person (see C.S. Lewis' piece on "Bulverism" from God in The Dock). In this case, the supposed attribute is a fear of homosexuals.

Like similar attempts to avoid rational discussion of an issue, the homophobia argument completely misses the point. Even if a person were afraid of homosexuals, that would not diminish his arguments against their behavior. The fact that a person is afraid of handguns would not nullify arguments against handguns, nor would the fact that a person might be afraid of handgun control diminish arguments against handgun control.

Furthermore, the homophobia charge rings false. The vast majority of those who oppose homosexual behavior are in no way "afraid" of homosexuals. A disagreement is not the same as a fear. One can disagree with something without fearing it, and the attempt to shut down rational discussion by crying "homophobe!" falls flat. It is an attempt to divert attention from the arguments against one’s position by focusing attention on the one who made the arguments, while trying to claim the moral high ground against him.

The modern arguments in favor of homosexuality have thus been insufficient to overcome the evidence that homosexual behavior is against divine and natural law, as the Bible as well as the wider circle of Jewish and Christian (not to mention Muslim) writers, have always held.

Paul comfortingly reminds us, "No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it" (1 Cor. 10:13).

Homosexuals who want to live chastely or receive counseling that could possibly lead to a change in sexual behavior can contact 'Exodus' or 'Courage.' Both are national, Christian support groups for help in deliverance from the homosexual lifestyle.