Cris, Pastor Roger, and Others,

I saw the part that I would say Amen to also. I guess this would be a fairly good example that you could take quotes or isolated portions out of just about any book and think it might be a good book until you read several pages.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 NASB  Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

AMEN!  That's exactly what PR and you were saying earlier on a completely different topic, about the condition of our country...............how the idiots were quoting our ancestral public officials, and leaving out parts of that quote to fit their own agenda.  Excuse me for calling them idiots, but it's much better than others I'm thinking of.

Grace and peace,
cris

Personally I think you are being to kind.  

Why is it understandable that no one here knew anything about him?

Because he was a false teacher from the 1500's and not important enough to have heard about him.

Hello Pastor Roger,

Brother, I think that both of us were far too kind in our overall description of Michael Servetus. He was a false teacher of the worst type when he lived, and his books would represent the worst type of false teaching now.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Colossians 2:2 NASB  that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself,

BEP,

Right after the first few posts about him, I posted that I thought the guy was obsessive-compulsive.  He got no kudos from me, but others were posting Amen's.  I knew no one knew who this guy was, so that's why I posted the link.  

Grace and peace,
cris

It is understandable now why no one here knew anything about Michael Servetus.
The Amens though were in response to :

Christianity needs "not" to be made "reasonable".
for it is human  reason that  needs to be made more Christian.
Romans 11:33-36

human  reason needs to hold it self "captive to Scripture".
Gods word! 2 corinthians 10:5 [/qoute]

Now that I know a little more about this Michael Servetus I say Amen again to the above quote.

"no original sin" and mixing astrology
he Holy Trinity as a three-headed beast

"does not except the eternal diety of Jesus"

"Servetus rejected the doctrine of original sin and the entire theory of salvation based upon it, including the doctrines of Christ's dual nature and the vicarious atonement effected by his death."

He sounds like a very confused, mixed up, lost individual that attempted to use the logic of the human mind to understand the divine nature of God.

Legislators leery of ruling about prayer; Conservatives, liberals say court decision raises questions

By Kurt Van der Dussen, Hoosier Times
Sunday, December 4, 2005 6:08 AM CST

The federal court ruling ordering the Indiana General Assembly not to allow invocations to be given in the name of Jesus Christ got a leery eye from area lawmakers.

Those who are devout Christians voiced emotions from disappointment to anger.

"This is the first (court ruling) that singles out any particular religion or any religious figure that specifically," said Rep. Eric Koch, R-Bedford.

He also noted that several patriotic songs, such as "God Bless America" and "America the Beautiful" contain religious lyrics.

"This ruling raises the question of whether those songs can even be sung in the House chambers," he said.

The ruling, Koch said, "runs counter to the First Amendment" in the limits it puts on speech.

Legislative liberals concerned about the preponderance of Christian prayer in the Legislature wondered if it went too far.

Sen. Vi Simpson, D-Ellettsville, has observed the Senate's prayer practices for 21 years now.

"I was never disturbed by the process because everyone is welcome to invite anyone to lead the prayer," she said. She thinks "the issue has been overblown" by the Indiana Civil Liberties Union and others.

"Honestly, I think this is going a bit too far," she said. "As long as the prayers are varied and represent various faiths, I think it should be allowed."

Simpson said the Senate's practice has been that clergy most often are invited by members, with senators sometimes giving the prayer themselves. A United Methodist who has taught Sunday school and sung in the choir, Simpson said she has not led prayer herself.

An ecumenical soul, Simpson said her hope had been that allowing a variety of religious representatives to pray would introduce senators to other beliefs. "But in practice it has never worked out that way," she said. "It has been almost entirely Christian prayer."

Associated Press reported this week that of 53 opening prayers in the House during the 2005 General Assembly, 41 were given by clergy identified with Christian churches and nine were delivered by representatives themselves. A lay person, a Muslim imam and a Jewish Rabbi each delivered one prayer.

In terms of prayer's benefits, Simpson said, "I've always found it sets the tone, that it helps restore civility." She said she can't recall any non-Christian members being offended by the prayers in the Senate.

Sen. Brent Steele, R-Bedford, said he hadn't read the ruling yet, but did have a specific question he wants answered.

"I want to know if it rules out Muslims saying the name of Allah," he said. "I'd be interested in seeing if the judge said that. And if it didn't, if it's an example of the secular jihad that's going on."

He said the Legislature has been inclusive with invocations and so have individual invocators. He specifically recalled one who prayed "in the name of Allah and in the name of Jehovah God."

"It's not a one-way street," he said. In his view, "we've had tolerance and now we've had judicial intolerance imposed on us."

Steele wondered what the future holds for invocations.

"A milquetoast prayer where we pray to what? It's just neutered," he charged. "And how is it enforceable?"

Rep. Matt Pierce, D-Bloomington, predicted partisan politics will enter the issue.

"Speaker Bosma and his caucus realize this is a golden opportunity for them to energize their base" for the 2006 election, he said.

Simpson said Bosma has politicized religious issues more than most. But she said "I really don't" see this becoming a partisan issue.

"I don't see the Republicans and the Democrats differing very much on this issue," she said. "The Republicans don't own faith, and they don't own patriotism."

Rep. Peggy Welch, D-Bloomington, said Welch, an evangelical Christian who has belonged to bipartisan Statehouse Bible study and prayer groups, said what produced the issue was the day Bedford's Clarence Brown led the invocation, then sang.

Welch said sometimes people sing for the House and that this song was more "entertainment" than worship. To her, the adverse reaction "went way overboard.

"Everybody is eligible to invite whoever they want to come," she said of House practice for inviting people to give invocations or sing.

"I'm disappointed because it's restricting the ability to pray in one's own faith," she said. She noted that when she prays in a gathering that includes non-Christians, "I try to be sensitive and I say, 'I pray in the name of Jesus'," instead of 'we.'"

Rep. Matt Pierce was still rolling the ruling around in his mind. "I'm not sure what I think about it," he said. "I kind of have two opinions about it.

"I do think prayers were becoming too denominational," he said, clarifying he meant Christian as opposed to being too many Baptists or Catholics, etc.

He said of non-Christian prayers in the House that "it's a rare occasion but from time to time they do have" a prayer by a Jewish rabbi, Muslim cleric or Native American spiritual leader.

"On the other hand, I can understand how Speaker Bosma feels about asking a clergyman to pray and then giving them a bunch of rules they have to follow," he said, referring to House Speaker Brian Bosma, R-Beech Grove, who has fiercely criticized the ruling.

Personally I see it as a compromise because it allows the thought that many aspects of evolution could be right. i.e. long earth age, man evolving from a lower life form, etc. and not following necessarily what the Bible tells us to be true.

Lots of good answers.
Here's an answer that isn't so good:

'eviler' is an irregular inflected form of evil. An inflected form simply means to change the form of a word, signaling change in tense, voice, mood, person, gender, number or case. An irregular inflected form simply means that the word does not fit into the category of the normal rules for changing the form of a word.

[1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.]

Hi  marc_serv,

As I said, I know nothing of Michael Servetus nor of his teachings therefore I do not intend to say anything about him. I will though state as I did above that the Bible does support the teachings of the Trinity even though the bible does not specifically use that given word.

 
1Jo 5:7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Epsilon Strengthens Into Hurricane Again
12.04.2005, 10:05 AM


Epsilon unexpectedly strengthened again into a rare December hurricane on Sunday in the open Atlantic, where it posed no threat to land.

The 26th named storm of the record-breaking hurricane season had top sustained winds near 85 mph, despite earlier predictions that it would weaken, according to the National Hurricane Center in Miami. Epsilon had sustained winds of 70 mph earlier in the day; hurricanes have winds of at least 74 mph.

"There are no clear reasons and I am not going to make one up to explain the recent strengthening of Epsilon," said hurricane specialist Lixion Avila.

But he said cooler waters, higher wind shear and drier air should cause Epsilon to gradually weaken later in the day. Epsilon first reached hurricane strength on Friday and is the 14th hurricane of the season.

At 10 a.m. EST, Epsilon was centered about 725 miles west-southwest of the Azores and moving east near 12 mph.

The Atlantic hurricane season began June 1 and officially ended on Wednesday.

Epsilon was only the fifth hurricane to form in December in more than 150 years of records, hurricane specialist Stacy Stewart said. The latest that a hurricane has formed in the Caribbean was Dec. 30, in 1954.

[As Pogo would say, if the faithful continue allowing this to happen, "We have met the enemy and he is us."]

By Bob Lynn

 

December 01, 2005
Thursday


The unruly Rodney King made a valid point with his famous question, "Why can't we all just get along?" I can add some questions of my own. "Why are people who pontificate the loudest about 'tolerance' so intolerant of people who take their religion seriously? Why do many who preach the wonders of 'diversity' exclude practicing Christians and Jews from their diversity big tent?"

There appears to be a campaign to marginalize, or even eradicate, America's Judeo-Christian heritage. We witness a flood of vitriol directed toward Christians and other believers, with especial wrath seemingly reserved for those who give evidence of being faithful Evangelicals or Catholics. It's like a jihad in reverse. What's going on here?

Our nation is in the midst of a cultural battle - a conflict of values - between extreme secularism and a religious world view. As one writer expressed it, there's a tug of war going on for the future of America. The problem isn't garden-variety non-religious folks, and certainly not members of one faith vigorously debating theology with members of a different denomination. The problem is anti-religious zealots with zero tolerance for anyone who actively practices their religion, and zero appreciation for America's Judeo-Christian heritage. "Christophobes" would remove the faithful from the public forum, and revise our history and value system to suit their extremist agenda. The battle is evident in national news and local "Letters to the Editor." Anti-religious jihadists would tear any form of religion expression from the fabric of American culture. They don't believe in "live and let live," and that's unhealthy in a pluralistic society.

Anti-religious zealots would remove "God" from the Pledge of Allegiance. A Ten Commandments monument is dragged out of a courthouse. The Salvation Army is banned from ringing bells in front of stores at Christmas (excuse me, the "Holidays"). Religious symbols are censored out of historic city seals. Kids can't sing Silent Night in public schools. Menorahs are outlawed. Nativity scenes are taboo. A teacher gets in trouble for teaching the Declaration of Independence because the document makes references to God. The colors red and green - even red poinsettias - are outlawed because they are associated with (there goes that "C word" again) Christmas. Christmas trees are out; "holiday trees" are in. A telephone company denigrates three holidays by advertising "Christmahanakwanzakah" in a TV commercial. A float in a 30th Annual Parade of Lights is disallowed because it includes a sign proclaiming "Merry Christmas," and carolers singing - you guessed it - Christmas carols. Graduates from evangelical Christian schools may suffer problems being admitted to the University of California. A government worker is prohibited from wishing anyone in the office "Happy Hanukkah." And the list goes on, ad infinitum, ad absurdum.

Such outrages were once the absurd acts of kooks, but abnormal becomes "normal" when ignored. Things considered absurd a scant few years ago (for example, same-sex marriage) are deemed "politically correct," and too often upheld in courts of law. None of this is good news.

This is America. It's not the business of local, state, or national government to force religion down the throat of anyone. That doesn't foster faith; it discourages it - not to mention that it's unconstitutional. If someone is non-religious, that's their business. However, the rights of anti-religious zealots must end where constitutionally protected freedom of religion and common sense begins. Anti-religionists have no inherent right to tear religion from the fabric of our daily life, or to deny believers their rightful place in a diverse society - including believers being a respected voice in the political process. As Pogo would say, if the faithful continue allowing this to happen, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

When we elect someone to office - PTA, assembly, state legislature, congress, or the presidency - we elect their values, whatever they are. Never mind vacuous statements that politicians shouldn't bring personal religious values to public office. Nonsense. Everybody takes their values every place they take themselves. Values cannot be separated from the person. There's no such thing as lack of values, only different values.

Believers and non-believers inhabit our same small planet - a planet and people many of us believe to be created by God. America has become a great nation because of our Judeo-Christian heritage and ethic that recommends "Do unto others as we would have others do unto us." One application of The Golden Rule would be tolerance for neighbors who practice their religion. Unfortunately that concept is foreign to Christophobes. Whatever, it's past time for believers to stop being doormats for anti-religious bigots. We can't stop prejudice against the people of faith, but discrimination should end. Do I hear an Amen?

 

Note: Representative Bob Lynn is a member of the Alaska Legislature representing District 31, Anchorage.

 

Hi rencal,

Welcome to Christians Unite.

God does save and I will shout that from the rooftops

Amen and praise be to God.

 

Yes Bronze is really good on Id, evolution vs creationism. He is by far more educated on it than I am. ID is just a compromise between evolution and creationism. Not a good thing.

I am not sure which meeting you are talking about. There seems to be such a meeting everyday now over Iraq. Most of it has to do with the Democrats pushing for a withdrawal and President Bush saying it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

It is great to see both of you on the forum. Things aren't the same without you.

My prayers are with you both also.

Brother John, It is great to hear from you. My prayers are joined with the others for you in this. Take care my brother and speak to us as you are able.