The Apostles Creed

[Soldier4Christ]

Protestants is the denomination now given to all who belong to the reformed churches.

Perhaps this is the reason that I do not like the word Protestant in regards to myself. I do not belong to a denomination nor to any reformed churches. I belong to Jesus Christ, one body. I gave myself to Him and He is the only one that owns me.

[ggamble]

Amen, Pastor Roger

  My main focus was on the event of the reformation, where the real truth finally got out, all those involved in it. The martyred ones who stood their ground through "Bloody Mary" and before that time. Huss, Luther, John Wycliffe, Tyndale, and the rest, I have to give them respect for their stand against the wiles of the enemy.
  Protestant, what ever, I too know what body I belong too, His church I'm all His and He is making me to His likeness. I cannot agree with any man that goes against God's Word, or their actions that are not brought into obedience to our Lord. No matter I still better love them, its the Lords commandment. I miss the mark myself through my day, and I thank God for the mercy and grace, that He gives when I repent and learn and press on.  As it says in in Hebrews 10:23,  Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful.   {NIV}

May the Lord bless thee and keep thee.
Only Always for Christ Jesus
in the love of a brother
ggamble

[Pilgrim]

Hello ggamble,

I am not protestant or Catholic. I am simply a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. My faith is not rooted in the creeds, doctrines and history of religious man, but in the Word Of God. Our practices are similar to what others would call Plymouth Brethren although I prefer to be called either brother or just Christian. For some strange reason Catholics and many Protestants feel that it is important to have a church history they can trace back for many centuries. I would guess that they mistakenly believe that the further back they can trace their religious  movement the more legitimacy it give to their religion. I am often asked how far back my church history goes. I show them my Bible and tell then my beliefs are traced to those who laid the foundation of the Church itself (the apostles and Jesus Christ). I do not need a religious institution with all its wild claims to add legitimacy to my faith, I have the very teachings of the apostles and God Himself and that is all I need.

As far as the reformation goes I see most of it in the light of Revelation 17:5

Rev 17:5 “And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”

I personally believe that the “THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS” is the RCC. This verse tells us that this great religious whore is a mother and her offspring are religious harlots as well. So when I see religious movements that came from the RCC I am suspicious of them. When I examine the gospel taught by men like Luther and Calvin, and see that they embraced and taught a false gospel which includes baptismal regeneration I have no more use for them than I do for their religious mother the RCC. My faith stands on the Word of God not a religious institution or men who taught false gospels that damned souls rather than save them.

Luther, and many other famous religious leaders have written religious documents contrary to the Word of God. Many give these document vast authority in their religious institutions even to the point of making void the Word of God. Most of these documents are filled with serious error that brings harm to one soul rather than help. In my opinion they have no place in the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am reminded of the words of Jeremiah concerning the spiritual heath of the people in his day.

Jer 5:30 “A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; 31  The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?”

Many of these religious documents are filled with error and carry authority in many religious institutions, and sadly the people love to have it this way.

God bless

Pilgrim

[nChrist]

Perhaps this is the reason that I do not like the word Protestant in regards to myself. I do not belong to a denomination nor to any reformed churches. I belong to Jesus Christ, one body. I gave myself to Him and He is the only one that owns me.

AMEN PASTOR ROGER!

I consider it to be a waste of time to trace the history of a man, a denomination, or anything else that pertains to man. Not a single man or brick and mortar church changed or improved the perfect message given by the Apostle Paul 2,000 + years ago.

Ggamble, I could be wrong, but I think that Pilgrim is telling you that he doesn't care what Luther or any other man said, and the same would be true for most Christians. Luther and other men are not the authority for a single truth in God's Word. In fact Luther contradicts some of the teachings of the Holy Bible. That does not make him unique - he's just a man. This is just one reason why we don't promote the denominations of men on Christians Unite. We promote JESUS CHRIST and give Him all the Glory, not men. I'm just a man also, and I totally disagree with many of the things that Luther taught. As a contrast, I totally agree with EVERYTHING the Apostle Paul taught. If we wanted to concentrate on men, Luther and the Apostle Paul disagree on many issues, so I'll side with the Apostle Paul. As an example, water baptism DOES NOT save you or forgive your sins. This is just another reason why we use the Holy Bible for our discussions, NOT the denominations and teachings of men. The name of your brick and mortar church is of NO interest. The real interest regards membership in a church not made with human hands, the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 4:36-38 NASB  "Already he who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for life eternal; so that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. "For in this case the saying is true, 'One sows and another reaps.' "I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored and you have entered into their labor."

[Pilgrim]

Amen! Tom.

[ggamble]

Greetings BEP, and Pilgrim


  All through the Bible we see the generations or lines of man - it was important to God or it would not have been in there. And yeah, that ain't where it's at for salvation. Tom you know I know what saves us, His Grace, John 3:16.  As I have stressed before "If any man". There's a theme to history, and its root is what we can learn from it, and what not to repeat.

  My stand here was about the Word, that's the rock, Amen, but other things came out in the debate also, and I learned some things also. As for "Pilgrim", your a man also, and I'd check everything you say against the Word also. And if some of the things you expressed here in these replies is your vision of the "walking in the Spirit,  compared to what you wrote in a reply on "Born again What happened".
  I would not be setting in fellowship and getting feed some of what you yielded here.
Luther unfairly receives a free pass, your quote, Pilgrim.
  If this is how deep in respect & love to the Cross, is to you, that's not the Christ I know in the Word of God.  I will stress "there was a price,  there was a cost, that's another thing the Gospel tells me. My foundation is Him and His Word, and I'm thankful to have it. That's what I was telling "Pilgrim", Tom
  I did not think I was crossing any lines in the forum, I'm sorry if my view may have been interpreted that way, forgive me.

  For some reason this thread has been acting funny and such, posting when I'm not done or have not selected that option, hands not even on the keys, and here it goes either gone or putting it out in post. Praise Jesus, I can press on in Him.
Pilgrim, as I said before, in the love of Jesus, may the Lord bless you in the gift of revelation.


May the Lord bless thee and keep thee
Only Always for Jesus
in the love of a brother
ggamble

[nChrist]

Hello GGamble,

Brother, there is definitely a reason for genealogies in the Holy Bible. The primary reasons were to prove bloodline for inheritance and prophecy. If you think about this, it will become apparent and is very interesting. This would be a very large and multi-faceted study. The largest and most obvious study would involve Israel, Promises by God to Israel, and Prophecy that would be fulfilled by persons of bloodlines in Israel.

The genealogies that men do today are primarily for other purposes. Most people today have some sort of will, but it usually involves a single generation for the purposes of man. As a contrast, The genealogy of JESUS CHRIST was proven by bloodline because of Bible Prophecy. You could have a fascinating study involving the various types of inheritance in the Holy Bible, as opposed to the inheritance of man. This would be a massive study, and it would involve the whole of Bible Prophecy and the Promises of God. We are really talking about many years of difficult study. The Promises of God would have two most primary divisions: 1) Those to Israel, 2) Those to the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST.

A beautiful TRUTH today is the Promised inheritance of the children of God. One could make some beautiful illustrations and use some of the most precious portions of the Holy Bible as references. I am a child of God, and I know about the Promises God made to His children in the Holy Bible. I also know some information about my inheritance as a child of God, but my final inheritance will be determined by God alone.

Let me just mention a few things that might be interesting for additional conversation and study:

1 - If a genealogy does not appear in the Holy Bible, does it achieve a purpose for:  a) just men   b) men and God  ??  Why?

2 - Assuming that the tracing of the history of a particular church would serve some purpose, what church would we trace and why:  a) Some named church or denomination that is brick and mortar;  b) the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST;  c)  NONE because ONLY GOD can trace the history of HIS ONE TRUE CHURCH, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 5:5-8 NASB  Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord -- for we walk by faith, not by sight -- we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

[nChrist]

GGamble Said:

My foundation is Him and His Word, and I'm thankful to have it.  That's what I was telling "Pilgrim", Tom
  I did not think I was crossing any lines in the forum, I'm sorry if my view may have been interpreted that way, forgive me.

  For some reason this thread has been acting funny and such, posting when I'm not done or have not selected that option, hands not even on the keys, and here it goes either gone or putting it out in post. Praise Jesus, I can press on in Him.

Hello GGamble,

Brother, I don't think that this thread comes close to violating any forum rules. More than anything else, I was simply making a statement about why we don't promote ANY denominations or brick and mortar churches of men here.

Regarding the loss of your message, I have no idea what to tell you. There are some strange things that happen on the Internet. I suggest that you use your own simple and plain text editor for composing messages that you are going to spend considerable time doing. When I say plain text editor, I'm talking about an editor that doesn't put all kinds of control characters that look like machine code in the message. Notepad works fine, but Microsoft Word and other word processors do put all kinds of characters in the message that can't be read by humans. Save your post in your plain text editor, right click your text with your mouse, hit "select all", right click your text again which should all be highlighted and hit "copy", now go to an open reply box on the forum, right click your mouse on the top-left portion of the empty forum message box and hit "paste". Now you will have your own copy that nothing on the Internet can effect. I hope this helps you some. Any small, simple, and plain text editor will work, but Windows Notepad is probably the fastest and easiest to use. You should also already have it on your system.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Psalms 111:2 NASB  Great are the works of the LORD; They are studied by all who delight in them.

[ggamble]

Howdy, BEP

 Thank you for the idea there, I have done that sometimes on E-Sword than came over and posted. The problem might be how long I'm at the writing table, so that might be the route to take. Thank You.
Amen on the generation lines in the Bible, IT was all by God's design, and I can see your point in mans research.
I had a thought about about one reading devotionals, if that would not be somewhat in the lines of what has been being discussed in this thread? I love to read the ones I do, along with the daily Bible study. And somedays in the morning when its getting hard to get around and time is a factor, After prayer, I just get my bread from there and the verses of that devotion and try to keep that in application for the day, or should I say be alert to it, and apply it.
And I love that "Daily Light on the Daily Path Devotional" that is so rich, and really hits home morning and evening.
Well. got to ready for worship, it's been a pleasure, God bless.

Only Always for Jesus
in the love of a brother
ggamble

[nChrist]

Hello GGamble,

I really enjoy many devotions, but I don't think that folks should allow them to take the place of Bible study. If time is a major problem, I would say to spend it with the Holy Bible and let the devotions wait. I hope that what I say about this is not misunderstood. I consider Bible study to be the main meal and devotions to be a snack. BUT, many people get great ideas for full meals of Bible study from the devotions. I don't think that it is ever wise to put the things of God on the same level as so many other things are these days (i.e. quick stop, instant this or that, microwave). Do these things with everything EXCEPT the things of God.

Brother, I'm glad that you are enjoying the devotions. Many people enjoy them, but I wanted to make the point that they are not intended to take the place of Bible study. Regardless of how good the devotion is, they can never compete with the Word of God.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Titus 3:4-7 NASB  But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

[bluelake]

Bluelake:

The 10 Commandments and the Lord's Prayer (or more precisely the Disciples' Prayer) are Scripture -- the Word of God and the words of God. No one can reject them without rejecting Scripture.

The Apostle's Creed -- for all it's merits -- is an interpretation of the Word of God, and subject to further intepretation based upon the church tradition to which one might belong.  For example "the communion of saints" and "the holy catholic church" will not be interpreted by Roman Catholics as they will be by evangelicals.

So the Apsotle's Creed must be kept in perspective. A Creed or A Statement of Faith is not Scripture, although it may be based on Scripture. Sometimes, there may be errrors in Creeds, Catechisms, and Statements of Faith. A careful study of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) will prove this.

Let's take one example from the Apostle's Creed (which was not formulated by the apostles of Christ). We read "I believe in God the Father, Maker of Heaven and Earth". While this is true in itself, Scripture teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were all equally involved in creation. Gen. 1:2 speaks of the Holy Spirit and Jn. 1:1-3 speaks of the Son.

So it would be more accurate to say "I believe in the triune Godhead -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- Maker of Heaven and earth".

Sower,
Thank you for your reply.
While the Catholic Church does recite the Apostles Creed,( I am not Catholic.) The end of the Creed which reads 'The holy catholic Church, 'catholic' here means, universal, not the Roman Church. Also some Churches say, the Holy Christian Church.
It is a profession of faith. Some churches say the sinners prayer. Is that in the Bible? 

Do you believe in the Trinity?

God bless you,
bluelake

[bluelake]

Hey Sis! (I seem to recall that you're a sister not a brother, but I am often wrong about such things, so if you're a brother in Christ rather than a sister in Christ, please discreetly let me know by saying,"YO! MORON!!! I'M A GUY!!!   )  I agree with you on focusing on the scripture from which the Creed was taken.  Please, don't concern yourself too much with the point we're making.  I feel this way myself in many ways.  One particular that I'll share with you: In my former church we had a Church Constitution we signed in agreement to be a member there.  When I signed, I had no problems with the idea, and didn't really pay that much attention to it.  It had in there, that we would uphold the use of the KJV, wouldn't go to movies, and a mess of things like that.  I did uphold the KJV...but also the NIV, the ESV, the NASB and the NKJV versions of God's word.  I did go to movies.  The folks at our church began to uphold this constitution higher than God's word.  The thing said "No Movies" so movies were sin!  The thing said to uphold the KJV so all other versions were straight from the Devil's mouth!  I began to feel as though I were being bound by man made shackles of interpretation rather than living free in Him.  When perspective begins to weigh heavier than liberty, there's a problem.

There in began my problem.  In my estimation, the only document we need to be a local body is God's Word.  We agree on the basics, and grow in our knowledge of the peripherals, and "if a man knows to do right in his heart and doesn't do it, to him it is sin."  For one man, bowling may be a sin because of the influence the things around it had in his life prior to conversion.  For another, it may not be.  For all men, stealing is a sin.  We know the basics, we grow in the peripherals together.  It's when the peripherals take the place of the precepts (which they tend to do most of the time with man written creeds/constitutions and the like) that we begin to have problems.

We are simply stating that no creed can replace God's word.  Will I die for a Creed?  No.  Will I die for the scriptural truths that that Creed upholds?  Yes, but on the basis of God's word.  I stand on precept.  I learn from peripheral.

The Apostles Creed wasn't written to replace the Bible. The Creed was taken from the Bible as a profession of faith.
I appreciate your comments.
I get the impression that many view the Creed as a Catholic prayer. They do recite it as well as many other Churches do. I'm a member of LCMS. A conservative Lutheran branch.
btw, You don't have to die for a cause in the Bible. Jesus already did it for us. Jn.19:30 

Sister bluelake

[bluelake]

Perhaps this is the reason that I do not like the word Protestant in regards to myself. I do not belong to a denomination nor to any reformed churches. I belong to Jesus Christ, one body. I gave myself to Him and He is the only one that owns me.

As Christians we all belong to Jesus Christ.
Since the Reformation we all belong to a  reformed Church. The Church that we were reformed from was the Church of Rome.

God bless you,
bluelake

[bluelake]

Bluelake:

The 10 Commandments and the Lord's Prayer (or more precisely the Disciples' Prayer) are Scripture -- the Word of God and the words of God. No one can reject them without rejecting Scripture.

The Apostle's Creed -- for all it's merits -- is an interpretation of the Word of God, and subject to further intepretation based upon the church tradition to which one might belong.  For example "the communion of saints" and "the holy catholic church" will not be interpreted by Roman Catholics as they will be by evangelicals.

So the Apsotle's Creed must be kept in perspective. A Creed or A Statement of Faith is not Scripture, although it may be based on Scripture. Sometimes, there may be errrors in Creeds, Catechisms, and Statements of Faith. A careful study of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) will prove this.

Let's take one example from the Apostle's Creed (which was not formulated by the apostles of Christ). We read "I believe in God the Father, Maker of Heaven and Earth". While this is true in itself, Scripture teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were all equally involved in creation. Gen. 1:2 speaks of the Holy Spirit and Jn. 1:1-3 speaks of the Son.

So it would be more accurate to say "I believe in the triune Godhead -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- Maker of Heaven and earth".

Thanks for your reply.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equal in power and attributes. There  is one God, remember.

God bless you,
bluelake