The Apostles Creed

[Soldier4Christ]

ggamble and Marv,

Amen brothers. This is the same problem that many have with the Bible itself, taking portions of it and placing their own meaning to it instead of taking it in the whole. Any time that we read any non-Biblical works we must insure that we compare the entire writing to the Bible to insure that it is in line with it's teachings.

This is also a method being used today in schools in writing history books .... printing only portions of the founding fathers quotes in order to prove that our country was not founded on the Christian beliefs. When a person looks at the entire quotes, writings and documents one is then lead to the fact that the U.S. was in fact founded on and with the Christian beliefs.

[bluelake]

I'm not Pilgrim,
but instead of finding something about the Word of God to recite --
maybe just recite from the Word, itself? 

When I recite the Apostles Creed, I can concentrate on each scripture that the words are taken from. The word came first, then the Creeds.
 Do you agree with the Lords Prayer?

God bless,
bluelake

[bluelake]

ggamble and Marv,

Amen brothers. This is the same problem that many have with the Bible itself, taking portions of it and placing their own meaning to it instead of taking it in the whole. Any time that we read any non-Biblical works we must insure that we compare the entire writing to the Bible to insure that it is in line with it's teachings.

This is also a method being used today in schools in writing history books .... printing only portions of the founding fathers quotes in order to prove that our country was not founded on the Christian beliefs. When a person looks at the entire quotes, writings and documents one is then lead to the fact that the U.S. was in fact founded on and with the Christian beliefs.

Pastor Roger,
I don't agree with your comment. Christian teachings are taken from the Bible.
I enclosed a short bit of history on this issue.

APOSTLES' CREED - Historical Note

Although not written by apostles, the Apostles' Creed reflects the theological formulations of the first century church. The creed's structure may be based on Jesus' command to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In a time when most Christians were illiterate, oral repetition of the Apostles' Creed, along with the Lord's Prayer and the Ten Commandments, helped preserve and transmit the faith of the western churches. The Apostles' Creed played no role in Eastern Orthodoxy.

May I ask, how many here reject the 10 Commandments?
Or the Lords Prayer?
What is the doctrine of your Church? Is it based on scripture? The Apostles Creed is. I just proved that.

God bless you,
bluelake

[Soldier4Christ]

Pastor Roger,
I don't agree with your comment. Christian teachings are taken from the Bible.
I enclosed a short bit of history on this issue.

APOSTLES' CREED - Historical Note

Although not written by apostles, the Apostles' Creed reflects the theological formulations of the first century church. The creed's structure may be based on Jesus' command to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In a time when most Christians were illiterate, oral repetition of the Apostles' Creed, along with the Lord's Prayer and the Ten Commandments, helped preserve and transmit the faith of the western churches. The Apostles' Creed played no role in Eastern Orthodoxy.

May I ask, how many here reject the 10 Commandments?
Or the Lords Prayer?
What is the doctrine of your Church? Is it based on scripture? The Apostles Creed is. I just proved that.

God bless you,
bluelake

Hi bluelake,

I think that you have misunderstood my comment. I was referring to the comments about the writings of Luther that were posted just prior to my post, not the Apostles Creed.

[Sower]

May I ask, how many here reject the 10 Commandments?
Or the Lords Prayer?

Bluelake:

The 10 Commandments and the Lord's Prayer (or more precisely the Disciples' Prayer) are Scripture -- the Word of God and the words of God. No one can reject them without rejecting Scripture.

The Apostle's Creed -- for all it's merits -- is an interpretation of the Word of God, and subject to further intepretation based upon the church tradition to which one might belong.  For example "the communion of saints" and "the holy catholic church" will not be interpreted by Roman Catholics as they will be by evangelicals.

So the Apsotle's Creed must be kept in perspective. A Creed or A Statement of Faith is not Scripture, although it may be based on Scripture. Sometimes, there may be errrors in Creeds, Catechisms, and Statements of Faith. A careful study of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) will prove this.

Let's take one example from the Apostle's Creed (which was not formulated by the apostles of Christ). We read "I believe in God the Father, Maker of Heaven and Earth". While this is true in itself, Scripture teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were all equally involved in creation. Gen. 1:2 speaks of the Holy Spirit and Jn. 1:1-3 speaks of the Son.

So it would be more accurate to say "I believe in the triune Godhead -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- Maker of Heaven and earth".

[Pilgrim]

Brother Pilgrim,

  I have not read all of  "What Luther says", but alot of it only as I was lead to read. He died in 1546, February 18, not far away. As I was reading where your address led me, it did not read like Luther, wrote or from what I have read of him. Alot of it seemed like something that he would not have did, from what happened after the 95 thing he nailed on the door of the church. And as Marv said it is incomplete.

Hello ggamble,

http://www.elca.org/ecumenical/interfaithrelations/jewish/declaration.html

“In the spirit of that truth-telling, we who bear his name and heritage must with pain acknowledge also Luther's anti-Judaic diatribes and the violent recommendations of his later writings against the Jews. As did many of Luther's own companions in the sixteenth century, we reject this violent invective, and yet more do we express our deep and abiding sorrow over its tragic effects on subsequent generations. In concert with the Lutheran World Federation, we particularly deplore the appropriation of Luther's words by modern anti-Semites for the teaching of hatred toward Judaism or toward the Jewish people in our day.”

Even the Lutheran Church has come out against Luther’s hater for the Jews as part of their statement above shows. Are you aware that Hitler looked to Luther as one of his most esteemed religious leaders? Are you aware that one of Hitler’s butchers use Luther’s anti-semitism in his defense at the Nuremberg trial?

Apart form all this Luther held to the false gospel of baptismal regeneration. He believed and taught that salvation took place at one’s baptism and apart from baptism one cannot be saved.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism

“Martin Luther, for example, placed great importance on baptism. Luther states in The Large Catechism of 1529,

    "To put it most simply, the power, effect, benefit, fruit, and purpose of Baptism is to save. No one is baptized in order to become a prince, but as the words say, to 'be saved.' To be saved, we know, is nothing else than to be delivered from sin, death, and the devil and to enter into the kingdom of Christ and live with him forever."”

If Luther believed what he taught then he held to a false gospel which does not have the power to save. God’s Word pronounces a strong anathema to anyone including angles who preach a false gospel and this would include Luther.

Gal 1:6 “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” 

Luther’s catechism is a good example of the serious problem of man made doctrinal statements. You have to wonder how many souls are in hell right now because they embraced the false gospel of salvation presented by Luther’s catechism rather than the true gospel of the Bible. Luther’s catechism is a clear case of mankind making void the Word of God by their own traditions.

Pilgrim

[sincereheart]

The repitition of reciting does not help me as the reciting starts to take precedence over the message and I fail to bring the actions of the message into the heart/spirit whereby my body will follow and reflect God and His Christ to the natural world.

ollie

Good morning Ollie! 

Valid point! 
But for us, since we homesKool , I find that memorizing Scripture helps my kids  draw upon His Word in times of "distress".
With that, of course, comes the study of Scripture and the reading of it in context! Not to mention the "exercise" of memorizing! And what better than God's Word? 

[sincereheart]

When I recite the Apostles Creed, I can concentrate on each scripture that the words are taken from. The word came first, then the Creeds.

Ok. 

Do you agree with the Lords Prayer?

[Allinall]

When I recite the Apostles Creed, I can concentrate on each scripture that the words are taken from. The word came first, then the Creeds.
 Do you agree with the Lords Prayer?

God bless,
bluelake

Hey Sis! (I seem to recall that you're a sister not a brother, but I am often wrong about such things, so if you're a brother in Christ rather than a sister in Christ, please discreetly let me know by saying,"YO! MORON!!! I'M A GUY!!!   )  I agree with you on focusing on the scripture from which the Creed was taken.  Please, don't concern yourself too much with the point we're making.  I feel this way myself in many ways.  One particular that I'll share with you: In my former church we had a Church Constitution we signed in agreement to be a member there.  When I signed, I had no problems with the idea, and didn't really pay that much attention to it.  It had in there, that we would uphold the use of the KJV, wouldn't go to movies, and a mess of things like that.  I did uphold the KJV...but also the NIV, the ESV, the NASB and the NKJV versions of God's word.  I did go to movies.  The folks at our church began to uphold this constitution higher than God's word.  The thing said "No Movies" so movies were sin!  The thing said to uphold the KJV so all other versions were straight from the Devil's mouth!  I began to feel as though I were being bound by man made shackles of interpretation rather than living free in Him.  When perspective begins to weigh heavier than liberty, there's a problem.

There in began my problem.  In my estimation, the only document we need to be a local body is God's Word.  We agree on the basics, and grow in our knowledge of the peripherals, and "if a man knows to do right in his heart and doesn't do it, to him it is sin."  For one man, bowling may be a sin because of the influence the things around it had in his life prior to conversion.  For another, it may not be.  For all men, stealing is a sin.  We know the basics, we grow in the peripherals together.  It's when the peripherals take the place of the precepts (which they tend to do most of the time with man written creeds/constitutions and the like) that we begin to have problems.

We are simply stating that no creed can replace God's word.  Will I die for a Creed?  No.  Will I die for the scriptural truths that that Creed upholds?  Yes, but on the basis of God's word.  I stand on precept.  I learn from peripheral.

[Marv]

Hello ggamble,

http://www.elca.org/ecumenical/interfaithrelations/jewish/declaration.html

“In the spirit of that truth-telling, we who bear his name and heritage must with pain acknowledge also Luther's anti-Judaic diatribes and the violent recommendations of his later writings against the Jews. As did many of Luther's own companions in the sixteenth century, we reject this violent invective, and yet more do we express our deep and abiding sorrow over its tragic effects on subsequent generations. In concert with the Lutheran World Federation, we particularly deplore the appropriation of Luther's words by modern anti-Semites for the teaching of hatred toward Judaism or toward the Jewish people in our day.”

Even the Lutheran Church has come out against Luther’s hater for the Jews as part of their statement above shows. Are you aware that Hitler looked to Luther as one of his most esteemed religious leaders? Are you aware that one of Hitler’s butchers use Luther’s anti-semitism in his defense at the Nuremberg trial?

Apart form all this Luther held to the false gospel of baptismal regeneration. He believed and taught that salvation took place at one’s baptism and apart from baptism one cannot be saved.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism

“Martin Luther, for example, placed great importance on baptism. Luther states in The Large Catechism of 1529,

    "To put it most simply, the power, effect, benefit, fruit, and purpose of Baptism is to save. No one is baptized in order to become a prince, but as the words say, to 'be saved.' To be saved, we know, is nothing else than to be delivered from sin, death, and the devil and to enter into the kingdom of Christ and live with him forever."”

If Luther believed what he taught then he held to a false gospel which does not have the power to save. God’s Word pronounces a strong anathema to anyone including angles who preach a false gospel and this would include Luther.

Gal 1:6 “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” 

Luther’s catechism is a good example of the serious problem of man made doctrinal statements. You have to wonder how many souls are in hell right now because they embraced the false gospel of salvation presented by Luther’s catechism rather than the true gospel of the Bible. Luther’s catechism is a clear case of mankind making void the Word of God by their own traditions.

Pilgrim

I feel it is rather unfair for me to have to answer for a liberal Lutheran synod which also denies the verbal and plenary inspiration of scripture and has even apologized to the Roman Catholics for calling the Pope the antichrist so that they can attempt to reach common ground with the Roman Catholic church.

Clearly, Martin Luther's writings have been misused.  I would not for a moment argue that.  I would note that that has also been the case for the Bible, and that wouldn't be limited to those same people who so misused Luther.

Luther's contempories clearly did not take what Luther wrote in an overly literal manner.  If they had there would have been a great persecution of the Jews at the time.  However, such an event is totally missing from history.  Luther's power was such at the time that if he had wanted to be another Pope and march the people off to war he would certainly have had the ability to do so, but he didn't to think that he really was was intending for people to go out and do those things he used as examples is to really distort Luther.

Luther's home was a sanctuary for many, even on his wedding night, one of his opponents,Andreas Karlstadt, knocked on Luther's door.  Luther protected that man letting him into his home.  Andreas actually stayed for eight more weeks.

Luther spoke very strongly against sin, he spoke very strongly against any who he believed contradicted the Bible, yet he did not treat people harshly, he kept his lazy servant, Wolfgang Seberger on.  He not only did not try to kill opponents he was known to save them, and so on.

There is a lot written about Luther with the very intention of discrediting him.  The Roman Catholic church has been at it for a long time.  He is not easy to understand particularly with all that is out there intending to paint him in a bad light.

Now for baptism.

Martin Luther believed the Bible.  One verse that he uses in his explanation of baptism is Mark 16:16 NET
(16)  The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who does not believe will be condemned.

Now with time we have learned that that verse probably wasn't original, but Luther had no such advantage.  He believed the Bible and the Bible said baptism saves.

The Bible also says:
Colossians 2:12-13 NET
(12)  Having been buried with him in baptism, you also have been raised with him through your faith in the power of God who raised him from the dead.
(13)  And even though you were dead in your transgressions and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, he nevertheless made you alive with him, having forgiven all your transgressions.

So Luther saw Baptism as a Sacrament, something instituted by Jesus, where earthly elements are combined with God's Word and which bestow grace, but you are attributing the Roman Catholic understanding of baptism to Luther.

For instance, Luther did teach that we receive grace through baptism, but he did not teach that we have to be baptised to be saved.  Maybe you are familiar with the saying "Grace alone through faith alone for the glory of Christ alone".  Well that is so taught in Lutheranism that it has its own name the "material principle".  Now if what you think Luther taught is inconsistent with that phrase, it is very likely that you misunderstand Luther.  The other possibilities are that something is being taken out of context or you don't understand the phrase, I can't think of any other.

What happens when people do what you are doing is that people say Lutherans teach that any unbaptised infant will be eternally damned.  At this point it is often difficult to continue a discussion because the Lutherans have fainted away.

Lutherans teach that we are saved by grace through faith.  Lutheran's teach that God's grace comes to us through God's Word and the Sacraments.  Since the Sacraments aren't Sacraments but just a bath and a meal without God's Word, you could condense it to grace comes to us through God's Word and not be incorrect.  (There is also general grace through God's creation, but we are mainly speaking of saving grace here)  Since baptism is not the only means of grace it is not correct to say one must be baptised to be saved under Lutheran theology.  One who is saved would normally be baptised but not always.

It should also be noted that the grace available in baptism doesn't come to us without faith.  It is not the simple act, but the reception of the act in faith, it is the belief that God's Word and promises are true.

Lutherans see the Sacraments as visible forms of God's Word, not as some work to merit salvation.  The only one doing any work in the Sacraments is God.  You could be baptised a thousand times and eat the Lord's Supper every hour and yet if you didn't accept in faith that Jesus gave his body for you and shed his blood for you and died for you, you wouldn't be saved.

You seem to have read Luthers Catechism, I don't know how you so misrepresent him.  Maybe it is the hatred you seem to feel towards him that makes you desire to misunderstand.

Agree with him or disagree but please don't continue to misrepresent him.

Marv

[ggamble]

Amen, Marv

  What I have learn about Luther was his love for the Word of God, and about how scripture gives revelation to the meaning. On the catechism making one hellbound, it's my understanding and the same thing I had to make a choice to do as anybody else who is now saved by grace. They either choose Jesus as their Lord and Saviour or reject him. It is on ones own merit where they will spend eternity. And what I read about Luther and Baptism. Quote from Luther "For without the Word, the water is simply water and no Baptism."
  Pilgrim you left alot out, what you accuse man of doing in creeds and doctrines and such, {you may get a revelation here} you seem to be doing the very same thing. WWII was not Luther's fault for the Holocaust, think again.
Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, that may put some light on it, out of Ephesians, yes alot of Innocent blood was lost there. In Proverbs 6:16-20 we find out what God says about that, you might find some other wonderful things there also.
  I personally don't tell my children that this is the "catechism", I tell them what it is in the Word. I was in agreement with the things we are to teach at home and I would add alot more to it, as well as Matthew 5
But what I listed in my other replies about the catechism was right from Luther. I don't see anything in what he said that would put anyone in hell. If you are setting in a Protestant Church today you have The Lord to thank for Luther and alot of other reformers. Luther loved the Word, some of the things he wrote in his later life I have not studied them,  I've  heard some question to them and as Merv said it may all be because of people misunderstanding him or his interpretation. I'd write more, but I had a good reply yesterday but it got hacked. But I'll leave with this from Oswald Chambers from my devotions Feb. 2.  Our Lord never lays down the conditions of discipleship as the conditions of salvation. we are condemned to salvation through the Cross of Jesus Christ. Discipleship has an option with it -- "If any man...."


God bless,
Only Always for Jesus
in the love of a brother
ggamble
 

[Pilgrim]

From Luther’s large catechism

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/catechism/web/cat-13.html
“We have now finished the three chief parts of the common Christian doctrine. Besides these we have yet to speak of our two Sacraments instituted by Christ, of which also every Christian ought to have at least an ordinary, brief instruction, because without them there can be no Christian; although, alas! hitherto no instruction concerning them has been given. But, in the first place, we take up Baptism, by which we are first received into the Christian Church.”

 “In the second place, since we know now what Baptism is, and how it is to be regarded, we must also learn why and for what purpose it is instituted; that is, what it profits, gives and works. And this also we cannot discern better than from the words of Christ above quoted: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. Therefore state it most simply thus, that the power, work, profit, fruit, and end of Baptism is this, namely, to save. For no one is baptized in order that he may become a prince, but, as the words declare, that he be saved. But to be saved. we know. is nothing else than to be delivered from sin, death, and the devil, and to enter into the kingdom of Christ, and to live with Him forever.
 Here you see again how highly and precious we should esteem Baptism, because in it we obtain such an unspeakable treasure, which also indicates sufficiently that it cannot be ordinary mere water. For mere water could not do such a thing, but the Word does it, and (as said above) the fact that the name of God is comprehended therein. But where the name of God is, there must be also life and salvation, that it may indeed be called a divine, blessed, fruitful, and gracious water; for by the Word such power is imparted to Baptism that it is a laver of regeneration, as St. Paul also calls it, Titus 3, 5.”

Luther’s small catechism: 

http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/LCMS/smallcatechism.pdf
“Second
What benefits does Baptism give?
It works forgiveness of sins, rescues from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all
who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare.
Which are these words and promises of God?
Christ our Lord says in the last chapter of Mark: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be
saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned" (Mark 16:16).”

From Lutheran website

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=3967
“The Scriptures teach, of course, that there is only one Baptism (Eph. 4:5). There is no indication that God has limited this blessed means of grace to individuals on the basis of age or levels of maturity. Baptism is God's act, a divine testimony to what "grace alone" really means, whereby He imparts the blessings of forgiveness, life, and salvation to indivduals, children and adults alike. And as our Lutheran fathers have always taught, Baptism confirms the grace of God upon adults who have already come to faith, and strengthens them in their faith, even as the Lord's Supper does.”

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2607
“The LCMS does not believe that baptism is ABSOLUTELY necessary for salvation. The thief on the cross was saved (apparently without baptism), as were all true believers in the Old Testament era. Mark 16:16 implies that it is not the absence of baptism that condemns a person but the absence of faith, and there are clearly other ways of coming to faith by the power or the Holy Spirit (reading or hearing the Word of God). Still, baptism dare not be despised or willfully neglected, since it is explicitly commanded by God and has his precious promises attached to it. It is not a mere "ritual" or "symbol," but a powerful means of grace by which God grants faith and the forgiveness of sins.”

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2610
“There is no ambiguity about what Lutherans actually teach on this point, although you are may well be correct in observing that this needs to be taught more clearly and emphasized more frequently for the sake of those who may misunderstand what the Bible and the Lutheran Church actually teaches in this regard. Baptism is "enough" for salvation in that it contains all the blessings of salvation that God himself has attached to it; these blessings are received, however, only by those who cling in faith--which itself is a gift of God!--to the words and promises attached to baptism.”

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=4645
“We also believe on the basis of what the Scriptures say concerning baptism throughout the New Testament that it is  a means through which God conveys His saving grace. Lutheran theologians therefore often speak of baptism as "visible Gospel." God (not human beings) has instituted baptism (Matt. 28:18-20). He has attached His powerful Gospel to the visible element of water and through this, His work, He unites us with Christ and imparts to us His saving blessings. That Baptism is God's means of imparting His grace is especially clear in Romans 6.”


Luther clearly taught that saving grace takes place for many at their baptism. This is a false gospel and is condemned by the Word of God. A false gospel cannot save and those who trust the false gospel which Luther taught are in grave danger. If they do not trust the true gospel of the Bible they will perish. According to Gal. 1 anyone who teaches a false gospel is curse. Luther unfairly receives a free pass and his wickedness winked at because many today are not aware of what this man taught and practiced. I am not a protestant, I owe Luther nothing. Liberal or not at least the “Evangelical Lutheran Church in America” is honest enough to reject Luther’s wickedness against the Jews.

Pilgrim

[bluelake]

Hi bluelake,

I think that you have misunderstood my comment. I was referring to the comments about the writings of Luther that were posted just prior to my post, not the Apostles Creed.

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry I misread your quote.

God bless,
bluelake

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

I was reminded of a GREAT TRUTH while reading this thread, and that GREAT TRUTH hasn't changed in over 2,000 years. We will find a list of faults, great and small, in EVERY man. AND, that's why we don't place our trust and faith in men. We place our trust and faith in ONE who NEVER fails and ONE who has NO faults:  JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever.

I think that we spend far too much time in talking about denominations and men's doctrines. There is absolutely nothing new about the Gospel of the Grace of God. Nothing can be added and nothing can be taken away from the FINISHED work of JESUS CHRIST on the Cross. The absolute Saving Truth was taught by the Apostle Paul and many others without the benefit of a single modern day Bible scholar, reformer, or any other title some would give to men. The point is very simple: Salvation is easy enough for a child to understand, and it remains the ABSOLUTE SAME as it was 2,000 years ago. So, the traditions and teachings of men mean absolutely nothing to me. The plain and pure Gospel taught by the Apostle Paul is all men need for Salvation and Peace with God.

Brothers and Sisters, the real answers are extremely simple in spite of man's best efforts to add to, take away from, or otherwise distort the Gospel of the Grace of God. Absolutely NOTHING has been discovered in 2,000 years that changes the GOOD NEWS of JESUS and the Cross. I must add that my trust is NOT in the Apostle Paul or any other man. I believe in the message that the Apostle Paul delivered because it was given and INSPIRED by GOD. My total faith, trust, and love is for:

1 - GOD THE SON, JESUS CHRIST, VERY GOD, ALMIGHTY GOD, the Creator, my Lord and Saviour forever, the Precious One whose Blood was shed to forgive my sins, THE CHRIST and LORD over my life;

2 - GOD THE FATHER, who sent His Son to die on the Cross for us, VERY GOD, ALMIGHTY GOD, the Creator;

3 - GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT, the COMFORTER who JESUS promised to send, the ONE who lives in my heart, the ONE who has SEALED my heart as a pledge of my inheritance, VERY GOD, ALMIGHTY GOD, the Creator.

4 - The HOLY THREE BEING ONE ALMIGHTY GOD with no beginning and no end for eternity past and eternity future.

Brothers and Sisters, we could spend the next 2,000 years arguing over men's teachings, denominations, tags, labels, traditions, and creeds, but it still wouldn't change the plain and simple GOOD NEWS of the GOSPEL of GOD'S GRACE. We will stop arguing about these things when we start spending eternity together with JESUS. They will all be left behind and forgotten, all except the simple message of Salvation that children still understand. It is still best for us to come to JESUS with a simple childlike faith and total trust in the ONE who died for us on the Cross.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Colossians 1:13-14 NASB  For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

[ggamble]

Hello, New Life, Pilgrim


Protestant
PROT'ESTANT, a. Pertaining to those who, at the reformation of religion, protested against a decree of Charles V. and the diet of Spires; pertaining to the adherents of Luther, or others of the reformed churches; as the protestant religion.

PROT'ESTANT, n. One of the party who adhered to Luther at the reformation in 1529, and protested, or made a solemn declaration of dissent from a decree of the emperor Charles V. and the diet of Spires, and appealed to a general council. This name was afterwards extended to the followers of Calvin, and Protestants is the denomination now given to all who belong to the reformed churches. The king of Prussia has, however, interdicted the use of this name in his dominions.  {Webster's Dictionary}


The Sacrament of Holy Baptism:
  Baptism is not simple water only, but it is the water comprehended in God's command with God's Word. Christ, our Lord says in the last chapter of Matthew: Go ye and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
What does Baptism give or profit?
  It works forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the Words and promises of God declare.
  It is not the water, but the Word of God which is in and with the water. For without the Word, the water is simply water and no Baptism. But with the Word of God it is a Baptism, that is, a gracious water of life. A washing of regeneration in the Holy Ghost. Titus chapter 3 says: According to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing  of the Holy Ghost. Which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ, our Savior, that, being justified by His grace, we should be heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying.
                                                                                        from the "What Luther Says"

  I take that as what Marv said and I shall paste it here:
It should also be noted that the grace available in baptism doesn't come to us without faith.  It is not the simple act, but the reception of the act in faith, it is the belief that God's Word and promises are true.
As I have highlighted in blue "It works" meaning to me it is a works in faith, or as Marv put it an act in faith.
  Note, here from what I just posted from Luther in the BOOK:  "What Luther Says"  that, being justified by His grace, we should be heirs according to the hope of eternal life. I would say he was preaching the right gospel, because  what I highlighted there in blue is what our salvation is based. There are other ways of saying it but that covers it.
  I visited your profile, just as you had visited mine, {I love the Lord} - went to the web-site, seen what might be considered man pulling out of scripture to make a statement of faith and or doctrine as you claim with the "creeds".
From my history of the church that I studied, it was baptism that formed the branching off of the Reformation. I have no true way of finding your church from the new churches branch off history per each cause to form another church. But if "Brethren" is the key word here than I can find it going back 1708 Schwarzenau Brethren, under leadership of Alexander Mack. And that was in the United States, and some in Europe which were a small group of men, branched from Anabaptism, Pietism, and Minnonite families.
  But from the definition from Webster's of what Protestant means, then your saying you came from the Catholic. And I would guess that you have the Hebrew text and the Greek text and translate it yourself, since Luther's translation {which is a lot of the King James}  / {because of your description of his character} would not be trusted?
I Thank God for the Word, and for what Luther did in his stand so we have it. I owe Jesus, my life, my all, my everything, and He is the Word.
  I think your thing with Luther is a bit deeper and as I would tell a true brother, sanctification always gets to the root, to open up doors of truth. You have laid out the fruits here, discern some things. Luther did not get a so called "free pass", it had a cost, if you are truly of Christ, you would not threw around what Jesus did for us {that believe} so careless. Some might take that even farther.  I cannot believe that to come from a Christians thoughts, if his mind has been renewed, and  he is (Governed) walking in the Spirit.
  Sin and the sacrament of the alter, should not be taken lightly either. Remembrance of Him, is not a free pass.
BEP,  Amen brother, I just read your reply,  it's all good in my book, but the Word is where it truly is at and what the Gospel is all about,   "HIM".................................

Peace be with You, God bless
Only Always for Jesus
in the love of a brother
ggamble