SHOULD I KEEP IT SECRET???

[Len]

Yeah, Bill, I have no problem with what you're saying. I'm quite sure we're on the same page.

What I was getting at was this. If we follow Scripture in approaching this unfaithful spouse, and he truly has a heart to get right, he will likely feel the lead to beg his wife's forgiveness.

And I strongly believe a man should confess his own sins rather than someone "ratting" him out. It is part and parcel to full reconciliation to God. If this guy does not repent, it will become obvious to his wife what has happened by way of church discipline.

JMNSHO.

[willychuck]

Yeah, Bill, I have no problem with what you're saying. I'm quite sure we're on the same page.

What I was getting at was this. If we follow Scripture in approaching this unfaithful spouse, and he truly has a heart to get right, he will likely feel the lead to beg his wife's forgiveness.

And I strongly believe a man should confess his own sins rather than someone "ratting" him out. It is part and parcel to full reconciliation to God. If this guy does not repent, it will become obvious to his wife what has happened by way of church discipline.

JMNSHO.

.

Yes Len,

I'm sure we are.  I'm in agreement that God's word should be heeded.  It shouldn't be taken lightly.  And as I said before, it's His guide line for us.

May I make a comment or two about what you said?   

My observations about someone who " truly has a heart to get right" and truely repent, is that they're ready no matter what.  No matter if someone is "ratting him out", as you've said.   I've been there before.  When I was ready, it didn't matter.  Because I was repenting.  My repentance was to my Father.  Seeking forgiveness was with another person.  Or in my case, persons.  I don't believe protection to another human being, whether male or female, is "ratting them out".  I believe we are a body.  If the people involved are believers, which saddly happens, then I have a responsibility to another part of His body.  The same body I belong to. 

I'd like to through another twist to the situation.  If I may...   

Suppose it was your daughter who was being cheated on.  Would you leave her out of the equation?  Would you talk to your son in law first and tell him that you weren't going to tell his wife (your daughter) about the adultery, but was going to go the "CHURCH".  So he'd better repent.  I hope not.  I hope your love for your daughter is stronger than that.  Please don't be offended by my words.  Please hear my heart.  She has a right to know.

In my experiences about matters like this becoming evident, they do.  It will become evident, eventually.  And possibly the damage, disease, has already transfered.  But that shouldn't matter to how the situation is handled.  I think. 

About begging forgiveness.  I've was in an abuse class for two years.  God showed me so much about my sin.  About the damage I'd done.  About "begging".  About humility.  About repentance.  About mercy.  About grace.  Precious grace.  And about His undying, unending, unconditional, love.

About "begging".  Not right.    Not good.    Seeking forgiveness.    Showing that you've truely repented.   

Once trust is broken that deep, it's truely hard to get the forgiveness one "seeks".  Not impossible, just hard. 

And I believe that the only thing that "is part and parcel to full reconciliation to God", is his heart condition.  Is he repenting, or just swollowing his pride?  Like I said, if he's truely repentent, I believe nothing will change his heart.

I hope I haven't offened a brother in Christ.  I hope I haven't came across like "I know it all".  I don't.  I am nothing apart from Him.  I only want to share what God and His word means to me with my family.   

your brother in Christ,

Bill
       



     

[Len]

.

Yes Len,

I'm sure we are.  I'm in agreement that God's word should be heeded.  It shouldn't be taken lightly.  And as I said before, it's His guide line for us.

May I make a comment or two about what you said?   

My observations about someone who " truly has a heart to get right" and truely repent, is that they're ready no matter what.  No matter if someone is "ratting him out", as you've said.   I've been there before.  When I was ready, it didn't matter.  Because I was repenting.  My repentance was to my Father.  Seeking forgiveness was with another person.  Or in my case, persons.  I don't believe protection to another human being, whether male or female, is "ratting them out".  I believe we are a body.  If the people involved are believers, which saddly happens, then I have a responsibility to another part of His body.  The same body I belong to. 

I'd like to through another twist to the situation.  If I may...   

Suppose it was your daughter who was being cheated on.  Would you leave her out of the equation?  Would you talk to your son in law first and tell him that you weren't going to tell his wife (your daughter) about the adultery, but was going to go the "CHURCH".  So he'd better repent.  I hope not.  I hope your love for your daughter is stronger than that.  Please don't be offended by my words.  Please hear my heart.  She has a right to know.

In my experiences about matters like this becoming evident, they do.  It will become evident, eventually.  And possibly the damage, disease, has already transfered.  But that shouldn't matter to how the situation is handled.  I think. 

About begging forgiveness.  I've was in an abuse class for two years.  God showed me so much about my sin.  About the damage I'd done.  About "begging".  About humility.  About repentance.  About mercy.  About grace.  Precious grace.  And about His undying, unending, unconditional, love.

About "begging".  Not right.    Not good.    Seeking forgiveness.    Showing that you've truely repented.   

Once trust is broken that deep, it's truely hard to get the forgiveness one "seeks".  Not impossible, just hard. 

And I believe that the only thing that "is part and parcel to full reconciliation to God", is his heart condition.  Is he repenting, or just swollowing his pride?  Like I said, if he's truely repentent, I believe nothing will change his heart.

I hope I haven't offened a brother in Christ.  I hope I haven't came across like "I know it all".  I don't.  I am nothing apart from Him.  I only want to share what God and His word means to me with my family.   

your brother in Christ,

Bill
       



     

Oooooo! Bill! Good "fer instance".

Once a blood family member is involved, circumstances are a little different. A dad has an obligation to his daughter to protect her a long as he is physically able. A good dad will go to the son-in-law first, talk and pray with him, plead with him to repent and confess before it goes one centimeter further. If the son-in-law does not, then, because of the dad's obligations, he should approach his daughter having been "prayed up", and as gently and lovingly as possible let her know. But anyone outside the family doing the same thing before the husband makes the decision, well, to me, it smacks of evil. And we are to avoid even the appearance of evil.

Now this is a generality. I'm sure you and I could both come up with scenarios in which variations on the same theme should be followed. And you are quite correct, God's Word is a guide to us. Any time we deal with this MOST difficult of ALL family issues, prayer is critical. The Holy Spirit MUST be the Leader. Otherwise, families can be destroyed without hope of reconciliation and our God is the God of reconciliation. That is, after all, what salvation is all about.

[willychuck]

Oooooo! Bill! Good "fer instance".

Once a blood family member is involved, circumstances are a little different. A dad has an obligation to his daughter to protect her a long as he is physically able. A good dad will go to the son-in-law first, talk and pray with him, plead with him to repent and confess before it goes one centimeter further. If the son-in-law does not, then, because of the dad's obligations, he should approach his daughter having been "prayed up", and as gently and lovingly as possible let her know. But anyone outside the family doing the same thing before the husband makes the decision, well, to me, it smacks of evil. And we are to avoid even the appearance of evil.

Now this is a generality. I'm sure you and I could both come up with scenarios in which variations on the same theme should be followed. And you are quite correct, God's Word is a guide to us. Any time we deal with this MOST difficult of ALL family issues, prayer is critical. The Holy Spirit MUST be the Leader. Otherwise, families can be destroyed without hope of reconciliation and our God is the God of reconciliation. That is, after all, what salvation is all about.

Hi Len,

I hear that.  Once an immediate family member is involved, it is different.  And a lot more emotional.       I just wonder though, how does our Father view these things?      I know He understands the differences we face when it's our own flesh and blood that are involved.  But does He see it like us?   Aren't they all His children?  Sons and daughters?  Wouldn't He feel the same as we would about our own flesh and blood?  Makes me wonder.     I just don't know. 

And I only brought that scenario in because, well, we are family.  We are brothers and sisters and part of one another.  I know it's probably impossible to feel the same about our brothers and sisters in Christ as we do our own flesh and blood, but I thought I'd just through it in anyway. 

I appreciate your kindness and insights.  Prayer is critical.     How could we do it lovingly without prayer?  Without communion with Him  Following His guide lines the best we know how is important.  Waiting on Him for His direction and word and Spirit.  A must.        

I'm not used to differing with others.  Well, I guess I am used to differing.  Just not to talking about it much.  Seems like I usually get shot down.  That's what the past has been for me anyway.  Thanks for throwing this around with me.   

Hope to talk with you some more.   

your brother and friend in Christ,
Bill

[nChrist]

Brother Bill,

A lot of our discussions don't boil down to who's right and who's wrong, rather everyone learning something from various views. We can talk about hypothetical situations and not be faced with all the facts and circumstances of a real situation. As an example, life and death issues are many times added to real life situations.

I think that the most important thing mentioned in this discussion is PRAYER. A Christian is always smart to seek the guidance of GOD in difficult situations. Prayer does change things, and it many times reduces or eliminates the consequences of flying off the handle and acting in the heat of the moment. Most humans aren't very smart when they are hot and angry. I know that I'm not. On the other side of the coin, I feel the duty of a parent and a grandparent, and I hope I would be smart enough to pray first in all difficult situations. If there is time, pray again, read what the Bible says, and pray again. There are usually many different ways to handle hard situations, and doing so with GOD'S guidance will always be the best way.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 119:133 NASB  Establish my footsteps in Your word, And do not let any iniquity have dominion over me.

[willychuck]

Brother Bill,

A lot of our discussions don't boil down to who's right and who's wrong, rather everyone learning something from various views. We can talk about hypothetical situations and not be faced with all the facts and circumstances of a real situation. As an example, life and death issues are many times added to real life situations.

I think that the most important thing mentioned in this discussion is PRAYER. A Christian is always smart to seek the guidance of GOD in difficult situations. Prayer does change things, and it many times reduces or eliminates the consequences of flying off the handle and acting in the heat of the moment. Most humans aren't very smart when they are hot and angry. I know that I'm not. On the other side of the coin, I feel the duty of a parent and a grandparent, and I hope I would be smart enough to pray first in all difficult situations. If there is time, pray again, read what the Bible says, and pray again. There are usually many different ways to handle hard situations, and doing so with GOD'S guidance will always be the best way.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 119:133 NASB  Establish my footsteps in Your word, And do not let any iniquity have dominion over me.

Thanks Tom

I'm sorry if I came accross as "I'm right and you're wrong".  I know there are many ways to handle situations in life.  You and Len are absolutely right about prayer.  Thanks     Maybe I should practice more prayer before I repsond.  Check my attitude.   

brother in Christ,
Bill 

[Len]

Thanks Tom

I'm sorry if I came accross as "I'm right and you're wrong".  I know there are many ways to handle situations in life.  You and Len are absolutely right about prayer.  Thanks     Maybe I should practice more prayer before I repsond.  Check my attitude.   

brother in Christ,
Bill 

For what it's worth, I was in no way offended. You spoke as someone who's been there, done that. And I treasure any shared experience from BIC's.

I've been in a situation like that twice and it is extremely difficult at best. The only peace I had was that which the good Lord provided. Both were very good friends. One marriage failed and the other is prospering to this day. The only seeming difference was that the reconciled marriage saw both spouses desiring to do what was right by God. In the other, only the husband seemed to want to seek His will.

Today, the reconciled family is growing strong in spirit and serving the Lord in several capacities. The other (rebellious) wife has remarried and their marriage is shaky. The husband who sought God's will has custody of their 3 girls, works in the youth ministry at our church, coaches 2 of his girls in soccer, and is growing spiritually. God is the critical component in all marriages...shaky or firm. And in ministering to these 2 men, I found myself praying almost constantly. That is where I seemed to find the most peace. It was like going through a dark, dank, creepy swamp riding on the back of Jesus. Fear was present but Jesus warded it off.

The thing I remember most was reading Scripture over and over making sure that I didn't misunderstand anything. It was a very scary, yet precious time.

[willychuck]

The thing I remember most was reading Scripture over and over making sure that I didn't misunderstand anything. It was a very scary, yet precious time.

Hi Len,

I'm glad that I didn't offend you.  I know it's one thing to share thoughts and feelings and Gods word face to face with someone, and another thing over the internet.  I'll keep trying though and hope I'm less dogmatic sounding.    

Emotions are sometimes high and sometimes low for me right now.  A huge gulf of seperation between my wife and I.  Not sure if we will make it through this one.  I've been trying for 4 years without any sign of restoration.  We've been seperated for 6 or 7 years.  I can't remember exactly.  A long time none the less.  I would appreciate your prayers. 

I am glad to hear about the one couple who chose to follow His word and was blessed by that.

I am seeking His word and talking to Him continually.  And when all is said and done,  His word stands alone.  There is no other counsel like His.   

your brother in Christ,
Bill     

[nChrist]

Brother Bill,

I missed your last reply and I think that you misunderstood me, or I chose my words poorly. What I should have said is this is a great discussion thread and we're all learning something from it. One of the important things about Christian fellowship is that we all have something to give each other. When we all put our heads and hearts together in prayer, we usually come up with some good things to share. AND, where two or three are gathered together in HIS NAME, HE is with them. I love that promise, and that includes forums.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Proverbs 16:3 NASB  Commit your works to the LORD And your plans will be established.

[Len]

Abba Father, we thank You for allowing us to come with boldness before Your throne of grace through the shed blood of our Savior and King, Jesus Christ. We thank You for availing Yourself to us, Your undeserving children.

Oh, Lord! Please hold Brother Bill close to your bosom. Hug him till he feels the pulse of Your loving heart. Reassure him that You are holding him close and that You care for him and his wife.

Draw his wife to Yourself, dear Jesus. Make her aware of Your desires in this marriage. Do not let satan have a foothold. Remove him from the presence of Bill and his wife. Scatter his evil minions, make them confused and unable to communicate.

Clear the way for a total, complete, and full reconciliation in this marriage. Draw them to each other just as is Your plan for husband and wife. Make them one and whole again. Give them a testimony as to Your grace, mercy, love, power, and sovereignty. Set the stage for a ministry that they might share the incredible work You do in their lives. Glorify Yourself in their lives, Abba Father.

Father, we give You all glory, honor, and praise and we pray all these things in the name of the precious Son of God, Jesus Christ, our Lord and our Savior.

[Soldier4Christ]

Abba Father, we thank You for allowing us to come with boldness before Your throne of grace through the shed blood of our Savior and King, Jesus Christ. We thank You for availing Yourself to us, Your undeserving children.

Oh, Lord! Please hold Brother Bill close to your bosom. Hug him till he feels the pulse of Your loving heart. Reassure him that You are holding him close and that You care for him and his wife.

Draw his wife to Yourself, dear Jesus. Make her aware of Your desires in this marriage. Do not let satan have a foothold. Remove him from the presence of Bill and his wife. Scatter his evil minions, make them confused and unable to communicate.

Clear the way for a total, complete, and full reconciliation in this marriage. Draw them to each other just as is Your plan for husband and wife. Make them one and whole again. Give them a testimony as to Your grace, mercy, love, power, and sovereignty. Set the stage for a ministry that they might share the incredible work You do in their lives. Glorify Yourself in their lives, Abba Father.

Father, we give You all glory, honor, and praise and we pray all these things in the name of the precious Son of God, Jesus Christ, our Lord and our Savior.

Amen!

[willychuck]

Thanks Len,

 

You couldn't know what that means to me.  Maybe you do.   

your brother in Jesus,
Bill

[Brother Jerry]

Ok a little later in this game

But Amen to Len's prayer.  In the short time we have chatted Bill I have continued to pray that God's will be done in your relationship with your wife, your wife's relationship with God, and your relationship with God.

If it were me in a third party situation as mentioned.  With prayer the sinner should be approached first and foremost.  Yes even before the wife.  And follow the steps that the Bible has outlined for us in dealing with sinning brothers and sisters.  One on one, 2-3 on one, then before the church.  Let me also state that the church in the NT is not the building, it is not even limited to the people you by chance go to church with every Sunday.  It is the body of Christ...so in this case the church would be before the marriage that God put together...The church would be bringing it up before the wife and family.

I saw a comment earlier that stated something about the Bible being guidelines.  I would say to be very careful when using this mentality.  This leads to a wide variety of self interpretations and twistings of the Word of God.  By thinking that the Word of God is nothing but guidelines you can even get down to it being OK to murder people.  That what it meant by not having idols was just simply referring to images of items that are to be gods...and not any material or immaterial obstruction to the walk with God.  The Word of God is truth and being truth it cannot be false and is very strait forward.  But more of that can be discussed in a different thread

[willychuck]

Ok a little later in this game

But Amen to Len's prayer.  In the short time we have chatted Bill I have continued to pray that God's will be done in your relationship with your wife, your wife's relationship with God, and your relationship with God.

Brother Jerry,

I really do appreciate your prayers for Debbie and I.  It's been hard for both of us.  Thank you so much.

Thanks for your input and insight as well.   

your brother in Christ,   
Bill   

[Soldier4Christ]

I saw a comment earlier that stated something about the Bible being guidelines.  I would say to be very careful when using this mentality.  This leads to a wide variety of self interpretations and twistings of the Word of God.  By thinking that the Word of God is nothing but guidelines you can even get down to it being OK to murder people.  That what it meant by not having idols was just simply referring to images of items that are to be gods...and not any material or immaterial obstruction to the walk with God.  The Word of God is truth and being truth it cannot be false and is very strait forward.  But more of that can be discussed in a different thread

Yeah that statement has always bothered me, too and for the same reasons you mentioned.