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| | |-+  HOW CAN WE SAY JESUS IS ONE WITH GOD AND STILL CONFESS A TRINITY?
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Author Topic: HOW CAN WE SAY JESUS IS ONE WITH GOD AND STILL CONFESS A TRINITY?  (Read 9076 times)
SpiritualSon
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« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2005, 10:53:42 PM »


Hello,
My name is Harry. I am a member of the New Church. My church's doctrine is base on the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg.  Swedenborg's idea of a trinity, is that every person born in this world, pass and present, had or has a soul, body and spirit. When Jesus Christ was in the world centuries ago He also had Soul, Body and Spirit. The soul, body and spirit is the person's trinity. The Trinity in Jesus Christ is Divine, ours is human. In John Jesus saids, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father. The Soul, Body and Spirit of Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Therefore the Divine Trinity is in Him, not in three persons.

Harry Smiley
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nChrist
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« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2005, 01:03:29 PM »


Hello,
My name is Harry. I am a member of the New Church. My church's doctrine is base on the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg.  Swedenborg's idea of a trinity, is that every person born in this world, pass and present, had or has a soul, body and spirit. When Jesus Christ was in the world centuries ago He also had Soul, Body and Spirit. The soul, body and spirit is the person's trinity. The Trinity in Jesus Christ is Divine, ours is human. In John Jesus saids, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father. The Soul, Body and Spirit of Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Therefore the Divine Trinity is in Him, not in three persons.

Harry :)

Hello SpiritualSon,

Welcome to the forum. I see this is your first post. If I want to be nice and kind, I must tell you the truth, and you won't like it.

You are in a false church, and you are being taught false doctrine that goes completely against the teachings of the Holy Bible. It would not be nice or kind of me to keep the truth from you.

Your church is a cult. It denies the Holy Trinity as a start, but it also denies the Gospel of the Grace of God. It teaches that anyone can be saved by being good enough. Faith in Jesus, His Blood, and the Cross mean little or nothing. Your church is also related to the Oneness type God doctrine that makes Islam and other false religions just as easy to be saved as Christianity. It's also connected to the Universal Salvation doctrine that basically teaches that good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell. If you're good enough, you're saved.

Now, I must be completely blunt and tell you that anything Swendenborg and New Church is a completely false religion. False teaching from this church is not permitted here, and that would include any links to false teachings connected to this church.

On the other side of the coin, I hope and pray that you stay with us. Many of us would love to share the Gospel of the Grace of God with you, and that would include me. I'm not angry with you at all, and my only interest would be sharing the GOOD NEWS with you. The GOOD NEWS is and alway has been that JESUS died on the Cross for our sins. Faith in JESUS and asking HIM to be The LORD over our lives is the only way to be Saved. JESUS was and is HOLY, PERFECT, and without sin. HE was and is the only perfect Sacrifice to save you and I from the curse of sin and death. ONLY HIS Blood on the Cross is powerful enough to forgive our sins, cleanse us, and make us fit to become children of God.

Any righteousness we might have is as filthy rags to God. Anything good we think that we might have done is nothing in the eyes of God, and no amount of what we think is good work will make us worthy for anything except eternal damnation. If you wish to use the Holy Bible as a source for the only TRUTH, JESUS is the ONLY way for Salvation.

Please, I don't mean anything in this post as mean or unkind, just the opposite. If you believe what your church teaches, you are not a Christian and you are not saved. I'm asking you to please not get mad at me for telling you the truth. Further, I'm asking you to read and study the truth with an open mind. Please go to the "Apologetics" area and read/study the "FAQ for Non-Christians". Many of us here will love you enough to tell you the truth about JESUS.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 10:8-10 NASB  "All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

Hebrews 10:19-23 NASB  Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;

Romans 8:1-2 NASB  Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Romans 5:8-9 NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.  Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
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« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2005, 10:14:56 PM »

I do not know anything about harry's religion or the teachings of swendenborg. I do know that i am reluctant about any religion that teaches in a name other than jesus.

however i am curious about the statement about the oneness doctrine... and i am just curious, how is that the same as islam and other false religions...please explain that to me.

first i would ask you to explain the oneness doctrine, and than explain the comparison with islam and other false religions.
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« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2005, 01:55:10 AM »

I do not know anything about harry's religion or the teachings of swendenborg. I do know that i am reluctant about any religion that teaches in a name other than jesus.

however i am curious about the statement about the oneness doctrine... and i am just curious, how is that the same as islam and other false religions...please explain that to me.

first i would ask you to explain the oneness doctrine, and than explain the comparison with islam and other false religions.

Hello GKB,

There are many "oneness" type religions and they vary. Islam is one such religion. There is no God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit - just Allah. For Islam, Jesus was just a subordinate messenger, lower than Mohamed. Various false "oneness" type religions deny one or more of what Christians call the Holy Trinity.

In the case of the New Church (Swedenborgian Church), they believe it is just as easy for a practicing Muslim to be saved as a Christian. In fact, everyone is capable of saving themselves. They only accept 4 or 5 books of the New Testament as belonging to the Holy Bible, but they totally accept a third and much larger work written by Emanuel Swedenborg in the 1700s as Holy Bible. According to them, the Second Coming of Christ already happened in 1757 and that Second Coming was for God to reveal the third testament to Emanuel Swedenborg, divinely I might add.

According to the New Church, JESUS CHRIST doesn't save anyone, rather He simply serves as an example of how people can save themselves. The Blood of Jesus and the Cross means nothing. They call Emanuel Swedenborg's massive part of the Holy Bible as the "Writings". It's a very strange and obvious false religion.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 1:16-17 NASB  For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.  For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
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« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2005, 06:06:07 AM »

that is a shame that people are buying into this type of crap, i knew that it was proberly off when i heard a mans name mentioned as the teachings.... its terrible.

however i thought the oneness doctrine was the belief that god the father, jesus and the holy spirit were one.
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nChrist
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« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2005, 09:30:10 AM »

that is a shame that people are buying into this type of crap, i knew that it was proberly off when i heard a mans name mentioned as the teachings.... its terrible.

however i thought the oneness doctrine was the belief that god the father, jesus and the holy spirit were one.

Brother GKB,

There seems to be new religions popping up almost every day now, and many of them focus on men - not God. The Holy Bible speaks of many things like this in the last days of this age of the Gospel of God's Grace. Maybe that time is near and maybe it's not. If so, we will see much more. I know this is one reason why all Christians need to make sure that their family and friends are strong in God's Word.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 111:2 NASB  Great are the works of the LORD; They are studied by all who delight in them.
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« Reply #51 on: December 26, 2005, 12:40:33 AM »

Trinty, this is the teaching of God in the persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Each fully God, each showing full divine nature. Luke3:21,22

The Father is the fountainhead of the Trinity, the creator, the first cause. The Son is the LOGOS or expression of God, the holy begotten one of the Father and He is God. He reveals the Father to us. John 5:17

The Son of God is both the agent of creation and mankind's only redeemer.

The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead or Trinity, proceeds from the Father and is worshipped and glorified together with the Father and the Son. He inspired the scriptures, empowers the saints, and convicts the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement. (John16:Cool

This is a mystery that will be understood once we enter heaven.

I like your response. The Bible teaches the Trinity. There is one God.
 The Father is God. 1 Pet.1:2
The Son is God. Heb.1:8
The Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3-4
We must seek to know Him as He is in truth. God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Jn.4:24, 14:6, 17, 15:26, 16:13

Merry Christmas,
bluelake
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« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2005, 08:30:57 PM »

so let me ask you, are they in some sort of order? for example god=1 son=2 holy ghost=3. it almost seems like we are limiting god to our system so that we can understand. isn't god, son, and holy ghost titles? like pastor, minister, deacon? does it say who it is?
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« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2005, 11:09:06 PM »

so let me ask you, are they in some sort of order? for example god=1 son=2 holy ghost=3. it almost seems like we are limiting god to our system so that we can understand. isn't god, son, and holy ghost titles? like pastor, minister, deacon? does it say who it is?

Hello GKB,

The Three are One and ALMIGHTY GOD, so it would seem the reverse is true. Each magnifies and Glorifies the other Two, yet They are ALMIGHTY GOD and ONE. The Holy Bible gives Glory, Honor, and Praise to each member of the Holy Trinity, so all are Magnified. If you deny One, you deny All. If you Praise and Worship One, you Glorify All, ALMIGHTY GOD. It's really just as simple as that.

This really becomes one of the easiest ways to identify a cult. If the group denies one or more of the Holy Trinity, they are lost and in a false religion.

Love in Christ,
Tom

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 NASB  Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
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« Reply #54 on: December 29, 2005, 03:23:44 AM »

i certainly do not deny any part of jesus- father, son, or holy ghost! i simply wonder if father, son, and holy ghost are titles, what would be the name that linked all three together as one? (i am a  son, but i'm not everyones son, how do i identify whose son i am....there is a name!)
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« Reply #55 on: December 29, 2005, 05:52:05 AM »

i certainly do not deny any part of jesus- father, son, or holy ghost! i simply wonder if father, son, and holy ghost are titles, what would be the name that linked all three together as one? (i am a  son, but i'm not everyones son, how do i identify whose son i am....there is a name!)

Hello GKB,

They are simply three Holy Names in English. There are many other Holy Names in English that refer to God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. AND, there are a lengthy list of Holy Names in Greek and Hebrew that refer to our HOLY AND ALMIGHTY GOD. There is a thread somewhere on the forum that has quite a few of these Holy Names listed. You will be familiar with many of the Holy Names in English, but it is quite possible that you and many others have never heard the Holy Names in Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Latin. I wanted to make a big point that all of the names are HOLY. You will also find information in the Holy Bible that there is at least ONE HOLY NAME FOR ALMIGHTY GOD that we don't know yet. I think that many people today have trouble understanding the significance of the word "HOLY". In ancient times, there were many Jews who were taught and believed that some names of Almighty God were TOO HOLY for a person to even speak. They knew that NO humans were HOLY, so they considered humans too unworthy to even speak the HOLY NAMES OF ALMIGHTY GOD.

I'm thinking about the times under the Law of Moses and the ARK. There were numerous Laws associated with the ARK, including many cleansing rituals to approach or enter portions of the ARK. Breaking these Laws and rituals meant death either at the Hands of GOD or by men. The most strict Laws involved entering the Holy of Holies, and that is where GOD on earth resided during those times. NOW, think about how things have changed since the perfect Sacrifice of JESUS on the Cross for us. Christians really don't understand how AWESOME it is to pray directly to GOD. AND, knowing now that the Holy Spirit of GOD lives in the hearts of Christians is really too AWESOME to consider. Our hearts have taken the place of the ARK, and GOD is residing in us. This is really almost too AWESOME to think about, but it is reality for all Christians.

GKB, I don't consider the HOLY Names of GOD to be titles. They are, in fact, HOLY NAMES. Our names might be Tom and Gary, and those names identify us, but they certainly aren't Holy Names. Our Title might be Mister or some other label designed by men. The HOLY NAMES OF ALMIGHTY GOD are given by ALMIGHTY GOD HIMSELF in HIS WORD, the Holy Bible. It is not possible or proper for man to think that he can assign a name or title for ALMIGHTY GOD.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Galatians 2:19-21 NASB  "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
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« Reply #56 on: December 29, 2005, 06:50:43 AM »

not even if that name is jesus?
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« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2005, 11:54:21 AM »

not even if that name is jesus?

Hello GKB,

JESUS is simply one of the HOLY NAMES OF GOD that has been translated into English. There are many precious and HOLY NAMES of GOD that give HIM Glory, Honor, and Praise.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 28:7 NASB  The LORD is my strength and my shield; My heart trusts in Him, and I am helped; Therefore my heart exults, And with my song I shall thank Him.
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« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2005, 08:41:25 PM »

There are many holy names, true enough! but only at the name of jesus shall avery knee bow and every tongue confess! why not at the name of the father? i just believe that jesus covers everything and every name that is holy!
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« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2005, 11:22:20 PM »

There are many holy names, true enough! but only at the name of jesus shall avery knee bow and every tongue confess! why not at the name of the father? i just believe that jesus covers everything and every name that is holy!

GKB,

 Roll Eyes   Huh  I'm through trying to explain this most basic and absolute fact/truth to you. Who did JESUS Glorify and Pray to? Do some study of the Holy Bible for yourself, and start with the basics. We have tried to spoon-feed you in the most simple ways. In this most simple case, it really doesn't matter what you think or believe. The only thing that makes any difference is the MOST SIMPLE AND BASIC FACTS OF THE HOLY BIBLE. You can CONFESS THE HOLY TRINITY or reject the HOLY BIBLE. It's really just as simple as that, and that's the end of the story.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 6:10-14 NASB  For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
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