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| | |-+  HOW CAN WE SAY JESUS IS ONE WITH GOD AND STILL CONFESS A TRINITY?
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Author Topic: HOW CAN WE SAY JESUS IS ONE WITH GOD AND STILL CONFESS A TRINITY?  (Read 6620 times)
GKB
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« on: November 08, 2005, 04:19:15 AM »

 I'VE BEEN READING SOME OF WHAT YOU ALL HAVE BEEN SAYING, AND I AM CURIOUS TO KNOW...HOW CAN THE SAME PEOPLE WHO CONFESS THAT JESUS, GOD, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE ONE (AND YOU ARE RIGHT), STILL CONFESS THE TRINITY? ISN'T THE TRINITY THE BELIEF IN THE SEPERATE INDIVIDUAL THREE, HENCE THE WORD "TRI"NITY? ISN'T THATS CALLED A CONTRADICTORY CONFESSION?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 04:24:40 AM by GKB » Logged
nChrist
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2005, 05:21:21 PM »

Hello GKB,

The detailed answer to your question is in the thread you asked this same question. If you want more detail, look in "Is Jesus God - Part 1". If you want answers from the Holy Bible, you'll find overwhelming details there.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Philippians 4:6 NASB  Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
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gary
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2005, 06:13:17 AM »

Trinty, this is the teaching of God in the persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Each fully God, each showing full divine nature. Luke3:21,22

The Father is the fountainhead of the Trinity, the creator, the first cause. The Son is the LOGOS or expression of God, the holy begotten one of the Father and He is God. He reveals the Father to us. John 5:17

The Son of God is both the agent of creation and mankind's only redeemer.

The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead or Trinity, proceeds from the Father and is worshipped and glorified together with the Father and the Son. He inspired the scriptures, empowers the saints, and convicts the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement. (John16:Cool

This is a mystery that will be understood once we enter heaven.
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nChrist
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2005, 11:27:00 AM »

Hello Brother Gary,

AMEN!!

The Holy Trinity is a complicated topic for many, especially the lost. For me, I must say that it is a topic that is more beautiful and precious by the day. We've tried dozens of ways to explain this difficult topic. On the other side of the coin is the simplicity of the Gospel of the Grace of God, JESUS and the Cross. I give thanks this is simple enough for a child to understand, and I many times think that we should concentrate more heavily on JESUS and the Cross. I'm thinking right now about many beautiful portions of Scripture written by the Apostle Paul.

Romans 5:17-18 NASB  For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.  So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Romans 15:5-7 NASB  Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus, so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, accept one another, just as Christ also accepted us to the glory of God.

Romans 10:8-10 NASB  But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Romans 6:23 NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Galatians 3:22-26 NASB  But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

And then one beautiful portion from John:

John 17:21-23 NASB  that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

Brother, I know we must try to answer the most complicated questions that many have about the Holy Bible. But, I also know that the Holy Spirit of God is required for a student to understand the deeper things of God's Word. That's why we have our "JESUS is GOD" threads. I many times hope and pray that our many visitors could simply say, OH! - Just to belong to JESUS and have JESUS as the LORD and center of my life!

Brother, in the meantime we will simply pray for guidance about what to say and keep trying. By the way, WELCOME!! to Christians Unite.


I'm looking forward to reading your posts and enjoying Christian fellowship with you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Colossians 2:6-7 NASB  Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2005, 09:01:43 PM »

As soon as I read this post this verse poped into my head.

John 10:33 "I and my Father are one."

That was Jesus speaking.

God is 3 in one. Father, Spirit and Son. I can't say that I completely understand it but I accept it.  And it has to be so because Jesus is God the son and says that it is so and I know that Jesus isn't a liarer so it must be true.

Also read Pastor Roger's pages, they help alot.

Love in Christ,
Kristen
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Romans 10:9  "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth thy Lord Jesus and believe in thy heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

Jesus is our first, last and only hope.  Without Him we would be nothing.
GKB
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2005, 02:00:45 AM »

DID YOU READ WHERE I AGREED THAT JESUS-THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY GHOST ARE ONE??? THATS NOT WHAT I'M ASKING. IF THEY ARE ONE, HOW DID WE BEGIN TO DESCRIBE JESUS AS THREE (TRINITY). THATS WHAT I'M ASKING. I BELIEVE MANY OF US DO NOT STUDY FOR OURSELVES, AND WE JUST SAY WHAT SOUNDS GOOD...NOW PLEASE TO THE REST OF YOU WHO ARE "TEACHING" WHERE IS TRINITY IN THE BIBLE? I'M ASKING BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO I HAVE HEARD USE THE WORD TRINITY, ASSOCIATED IT WITH THREE SEPERATE INDIVIDUALS, SO MY CONCERN IS TO KNOW THAT TRUE PEOPLE OF GOD DO NOT AGREE WITH THAT.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2005, 02:07:44 AM by GKB » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2005, 02:21:48 AM »

Hi GKB,

First all please stop "shouting" (turn your caps off).

No the Bible does not say "trinity" but there are a lot of different words that we use today that are not in the Bible either. This does not make them any more invalid than any others.

The term trinity came about because of the verses that show there to be three and the word trinity indicates three. Yet as you said they are one.

1Jo 5:7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jo 5:8  And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

So you see we did not say that Jesus is three. The Bible speaks of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit as separate entities in more than one place, and yet it also tells us that they are one.

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Joh 9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2005, 03:22:05 AM »

Hello GKB,

I see now that you agree there are three, and the three are one, so I assume you are complaining about the term "Trinity". So, you are saying the same thing we are with just different words. "Trinity" simply means three, and Christians use the term "Holy Trinity" when talking about Almighty God. If you don't like the term, don't use it. YET, you agree with what it means.   Huh

Say it the long way if you wish:

Almighty God is:

God the Father;

God the Son (Jesus);

and God the Holy Spirit;

and the THREE ARE ONE.


The above is what you say that you agree with, and that is the definition of "Holy Trinity". So, you obviously believe in the "Holy Trinity", you just don't like the term. So, say it the long way and make yourself happy.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 10:27-28 NASB  "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
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GKB
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2005, 03:59:11 AM »

actually i believe the correct way to say it is JESUS! THE TERM TRINITY SHOULD NOT BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR THE NAME OF JESUS. THE LONG AND THE SHORT WAY TO SAY GOD, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT IS JESUS!
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nChrist
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2005, 04:33:31 PM »

actually i believe the correct way to say it is JESUS! THE TERM TRINITY SHOULD NOT BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR THE NAME OF JESUS. THE LONG AND THE SHORT WAY TO SAY GOD, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT IS JESUS!

Hello GKB,

It's time for you to do some study in this area for yourself. The term "Trinity" is NOT used as a substitute for the name of Jesus. Read my previous post. I don't know how I could state it more simply. The term "HOLY TRINITY" is used to describe the three personages present in ALMIGHTY GOD:

1 - God the Father
2 - God the Son
3 - God the Holy Spirit

When I mean JESUS, I say JESUS. When I mean HOLY SPIRIT, I say HOLY SPIRIT. When I mean GOD THE FATHER, I say GOD THE FATHER. You would be extremely confused with many portions of Scripture until you clearly understand this. YES, the THREE ARE ONE, but there are also THREE PERSONAGES OF ALMIGHTY GOD. As an example, God the Son (Jesus Christ) died on the Cross for our sins. God the Father was in Heaven at the time, and God the Holy Spirit was given up (still living) by the physical body of Jesus Christ when the physical body of Jesus died. There are a host of other examples. In short, you could not remove the various names and personages of Almighty God from the Holy Bible and still have the Holy Bible make sense.

When I'm talking about the THREE PERSONAGES OF ALMIGHTY GOD, I say HOLY TRINITY. The THREE are all HOLY and distinct, yet THEY ARE ONE. THEY (plural) is correct, but ONE is also correct. I realize this is difficult to understand.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 John 5:4-5 NASB  For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
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GKB
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« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2005, 12:59:51 AM »

Pastor Roger, please forgive me if i appear to be shouting, I am not, I just tend to type in caps.....please forgive me.

the devils plan is to dilute the name of JESUS, I'm just afraid that many times we assist in that without knowing. i know that all three manisfestations are equally important, however, i just try do do all things in the name of JESUS. when you take the name JESUS, you automatically take the father and the holy spirit, and the son....which are titles. you'd agree if its one thing we do not need anymore worshiping of, its titles.
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« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2005, 01:41:10 PM »

Greetings one and all in the wonderfull name of our Lord
and savior. It has been a while since I have had time to
make a post, but I have this week of both from my job(I
am on vacation) and from my duties as associate pastor!
That is indeed a rarity(and some people say that miracles
don't happen anymore!) Grin Grin

I will try to add my two cents worth to this discussion, and
hopefully it will be of some help.
 In Isaiah 42: 8 we read"I am the Lord, that is my name..."
we read in Matt 1:21 "she will give birth to a son, and you
will name him Jesus..."
Again in Luke 2:11 we read"for unto you is born this day
in the city of David a savior, which is Christ the Lord.

Matt 28:19 tells us to baptize in the "name" of the father,
son, and holy Ghost. One name,for the three manifestations
of God. I Tim 3:16.
I believe that that one name is  Lord    Jesus    Christ.
in Hebrew it would be adonai(lord) Yeshua(Jesus)
haMachiach(Christ). One name for the Godhead. Three
seperate personalities, but still one God.
Gen. reads Let us(plural)make man(singular) in our(plural)
image(singular). Just as we are also three in one like our
God. We have a body, a soul, and a spirit. So too does our
God have the father, the son, and the holy ghost.

respectfully yours in Yeshua:

ravenloche  ie Rev. Joseph Barnhouse Sr.
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if not you, who? if not now, when?
if not here, where? if it is to be it is up to me!
John 3:17 for he came not into the world to condemn the world, but that the world thru him might be saved! Rom 8:1 there is therefore no con-
demnation to those who are in
christ Jesus...
nChrist
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« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2005, 05:15:39 PM »

Hello Ravenloche,

AMEN BROTHER!!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 104:33-34 NASB  I will sing to the LORD as long as I live; I will sing praise to my God while I have my being.  Let my meditation be pleasing to Him; As for me, I shall be glad in the LORD.
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GKB
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« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2005, 09:39:48 PM »

i understand matt 28, but have you read the instruction given after jesus was crucified? try acts 2:38-than peter said unto them, repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of jesus christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the holy ghost. you can also look at acts 8:12, acts 8:16, acts 19:4-5, and romans 6:3. these were the instruction given after jesus had gave up the ghost. it is because of the power in the name of jesus christ. the great commission was given while jesus was still here in the flesh, the new commission is given after he was rasied to glory. so pastors, and teachers, and reachers, how do you baptize?
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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2005, 01:56:27 AM »

Hello GKB, it seems you still hang on the same thing tho many above have clearly mentioned that TRINITY is NOT the Name of JESUS; that Jesus is just one of the Three.

Try to understand from the following illustrations:

ICE CREAM: Vanila ice cream, Strawberry ice cream and Chocolate ice cream; Different flavours but all have exactly the same texture, feel, properties etc. Only one difference is the flavour. Same way, Father-Son-Holy Spirit, all are One in Godship but have different flavours of character; personalities. Three-in-one.

Take some WATER and boil it. After some time, it will evaporate and becomes STEAM. If you freeze the water, it becomes ICE. [If you cool steam, it becomes water again and if you warm ice, it becomes water again.] So, there are THREE distinct things; water, steam and ice; yet, in fact, they are ONE.

Electricity - unseen in the wire - FATHER.
Heat - felt but not seen, in an electric bulb - HOLY SPIRIT.
Light - JESUS is the Light of the world, can be seen and experienced.


Hope this will help you understand more. Keep on reading the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit... He is the best Teacher.

God bless you.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2005, 02:03:28 AM by HIServant » Logged
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