Diplomacy: Gays.

[Symphony]

This morning was Pres. Bush's ninth press conference(by this time in Clinton's first term he'd given some 20; in Bush senior's, 61).

A reporter asked him about his stand on homosexuality.

Pres. Bush replied(in this order, as I recall):  "We're all sinners... And I don't think it's right to point out someone else's speck in their eye, if I have a log in mine.  And I think of our nation being all inclusive, and I want to welcome everyone.

"But I define marriage as between a man and a woman...and will work to see that codified..."

This is prettty much the gist of his answer, in order, as I recall.

What do you think about this reply?

To me, President Bush didn't talk really about homosexuality, although that really was the question; he gradually but efficiently moved it right over to the gay marriage question(which wasn't asked, but of course was implied).

[Psalm 119]

Symphony,

President Bush has really been fence straddling over homosexuality. On one had he wants to keep marriage  between one woman and one man. Yet, he has members from the Log Cabin Republicans ( a sodomite group) meet with him and his staff on a regular basis. He is inclusive.

Pslam 119

[Katherine]

I've heard the homosexual community say that they have received more freedoms under Bush than Clinton.

I think Bush said exactly the right thing in the position he was in. I admire him for mentioning the word 'sinner' in his statement. I think that took guts.

[Symphony]

Yes Katherine(welcome to the boards), I think President Bush did admirably.  Before the entire world, literally--AND, he did imply the anathema of the gay thing, by his stance on marriage.

This is the first time, in Iraq, America has been the "aggressor", a "pre-emptor", and tthe President is under tremendous pressure to justify that.  

I think the President handled himself exceptionally well--under that kind of withering analysis and stress.  I could tell though, he must not have been looking forward to that, today.

But with Psalm, I'm so sorry he couldn't put homosexuality where it needs to be.  Maybe it could be argued that he did do that, by his stance on marriage, that he draws the line there.

But our government(the courts...) have and are already siding with homosexuality.

I think by choosing to say "we are all sinners", and "he who is w/o sin cast the first stone", is to dodge the issue.  

I'm not asking for homosexuals to be stoned.

I'm asking my governemtn to "say" that it is wrong(and to outlaw it)..

President Bush did not do that.  And homosexuality is wrong.

In the same way it is "wrong" to run a red light.  And what cop is going to listen to, "Well yes, but everybody makes mistakes" or "Well yes, but haven't you ever made a mistake, Officer?" or "Well yes, but we need to be inclusive, Officer, so I should be able to run a red light anytime I want..."??

Nope.  Homosexuality is wrong.  For our Chief not to simply come out and say that is, as Psalm says, skirting the issue.  And I'm thinking this was "crossing the Rubicon", today, the point of no return.  A month ago the Supreme Court crossed it; but today was the Executive's chance to challenge that.  And it didn't.  The Excutive said it was okay.

But then, I'm not so sure he did.  He DID, by implication, call it a sin.  And if it is sin, then it IS wrong....

So I'm wondering why, or just "how", President Bush is entertaining the Log Cabin "Republicans"...??

He sure came close to answering very truthfully.  It IS sin, we ARE all sinners, Jesus DOES welcome everyone, and marriage IS between only a man and a woman...

So maybe he did very well after all.

I must pray for President Bush.  IN Jesus' Name...

[Symphony]

Well.  That was yesterday.

Today, seems like the Whitehouse is sanitizing it now.  


I think he shoulda just said, "Homosexuality is wrong.  It's an abomination".

That would take care of the marriage issue, by default.

And homosexuality IS wrong.  In the same way a traffic cop says you're wrong(he gives you a ticket).

It's no big deal.  It's just wrong.  It's an abomination.

Deal with it.

_______________________

Revision:   IN fact, I think that particular moment, when that reporter asked him that very clear question, and everyone worldwide is listening with baited breath--I think that was THE moment.

      I think now that was President Bush's "achille's heal"--and he fell for it.

      For now he has to work out a whole "marriage" thing, in the form of a law, or laws.

      If he'd answered the question truthfully, the marriage question wouldn't even be a problem now.

      I have difficulty imagining that God is going to honor Pres. Bush's response  yesterday, on such a clear-cut abomination.

      If I call it an abomination, aren't they going to throw me in jail??  You bet they are.

      So they will exercise their right to call me an abomination, but yet they don't want me to do the same to them--and they are the ones doing the abomination!!

      Nope, Pres. Bush deliberately and knowingly missed his golden opportunity yesterday.

      I fail to see how things will go too well for him from here on.  He should have called a spade a spade.  The price might be high.  But it will definitely be VERY high, now, from here on, by his, or the Whitehouse, deliberately sanitizing what homosexuality instead reallly is.

      From here on, now, this will be very costly.  And he had a golden opportunity.

      How would Jesus have answered??  He always quoted from scripture, and everytime homosexuality is mentioned in the OT, it is mentioned as an abomination.

[Psalm 119]

Symphony,

I have begun reading a book entitled "Jamestown Narratives, Eyewitness Accounts of the Virginia Colony, The First Decade:1607-1617. Our family visited Jamestown a couple of years ago, and picked this book up in their bookstore, on recommendation of a fellow who is a 14th generational descendent of Pocohantas and John Rolfe. He stated that this edition was the most historically correct. On page 29 (1 of 946) there is a section on ,The Laws Divine and Moral (which were implemented in 1610, after a few years of moral breakdown). Section 9 stated; "No man shall commit the horrible and detestable sins of sodomy, upon pain of death. And he or she that can be lawfully convict of adultery shall be punished. No man shall ravish (rape) or force any woman, maid, or Indian or other, upon pain or death. And know ye that he or she that shall commit fornication, and evident proof made thereof, for their first fault shall be whip'd, for their second they shall be whip'd, and for their third they shall be whip'd three times a week for one month, and ask public forgiveness in the assembly of the congregation."

What a difference 400 years has made in America......we went from the death penalty for sodomy to special rights, legal unions, and marriage?

Capt. John Smith would roll over in his grave!

Psalm 119

[Symphony]

Hmmmm, thank you, Psalm119.  NIce reference to keep in mind.  I'm saving your post to my "Hate Speech" file(hehe).
That might come in handy one of these days.  


AAAAmember.  Thank you.  Jesus loves you with all of His heart, AA--enough to die for you.  "But without faith it is impossible to please Him:  for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him." (Hebrews 11:6) There, that's for you, getting ready to go off to your first year at college.

AAAA, on the red light thing, if you come upon a red light at midnight, and no one else is around, isn't it okay just to go ahead?  It's not hurting anyone.

[Katherine]

The biggest mistake the Christian church has ever made is throwing out the OT. We've lost our heritage and the context of our faith.

"Progress"--that's what society calls the process of abandoning God's wisdom for human understanding. We'll be a great society when we learn to progress as a society without losing our heritage and understanding. God gave us wisdom and we have thrown it out because we chose not to put forth the effort to discover it. He told us certain things will bring destruction and we ignore Him.

I'm reminded of my three year old who argued with me when I told her where milk came from. It made no sense to her that it came from a cow so she didn't believe me. She was sure milk came from the fridge. Society has done the same thing. We had perfect wisdom and we threw it out because it was too difficult to understand. We threw out the God idea because we had no understanding of Him and chose to believe that unless we understand it, it doesn't exsist. Unless we see the consequences, it has none. We think we are our own creation, the world just invented itself. That's no less laughable then the fridge producing milk. Except, unlike my then three year old, we're gambling our eternity on it.  

[Symphony]

AAAA-
Symphony - no.  Red lights are for stopping at, in case you hadn't noticed.


What if it's really late, or real early.  No one else around.

Wouldn't it be okay just to go ahead?  It's not going to hurt anyone.

No police cars.  No other cars within sight.

[Saved_4ever]

This would be the AIDS that is spreading like wildfire through heterogotcha146, especially in Africa, right?

You just gotta lov it when people act stupid like this.  Let's see, it starts with a sodomite and gets passed on to a bisexual person who passes it on to a promiscuous person.  Hmmm I'm stumped how does this work.  

Is it really hard to see that the "disease" has been VERY acurately targeted?  Use a little grey matter people.

[musicllover]

This would be the AIDS that is spreading like wildfire through heterogotcha146, especially in Africa, right?

You just gotta lov it when people act stupid like this.  Let's see, it starts with a sodomite and gets passed on to a bisexual person who passes it on to a promiscuous person.  Hmmm I'm stumped how does this work.  

Is it really hard to see that the "disease" has been VERY acurately targeted?  Use a little grey matter people.

Use a little grey matter people.......OH KNOW, and I thought I had a good idea about just keeping it black and white......lol.
    Another age old debate.....did God send or does God send, punish, or what ever. Yes he does but in HIS time not ours, and we'll go to him. Thats all been set up at the day of judgement.
      Rignt now, its the people choices, natural order of things sun up, sun down, moon out, ocean tides up, ocean tide out, God set this all in motion in the beginning of time, does anyone believe that sometimes we get what we deserve?  We don't go around sticking our hands in a hot fire, NO that would be so stupid right,, but we'll sure put other stuff where it don't belong.... and there is just the plain simply fact of the Gray matter mention......we need to use the brain God gave us. Don't do what we've known for years you shouldn't be doing with someone your not married to.  Innocent people die everytime someone pulls a stupid stunt outside of Gods plans.  God doesn't have to sit on his throne sending angels to do his dirty work, (not yet but he will) or plaguing Africa......  We've step out of line of God perfect will. That is what makes Jesus so very important to us. If not for the  Grace of God........This whole deal, the world and all is garbage is just why God sent his son, he knew it was going to get bad, and worse as the generations come. So he made a way for us to get hru some of this. Even the innocent ones who have to persih because of mans ingnorance will be recieved into his kingdom. I know we grieve for the loss of those innocent one, aids, abortions, car wrecks......but at the same time, they go to a better place than this world will every be. God gave us a way thru, not out.
  OK enough preachin.
blessings