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Author Topic: The Top 10 Questions About God....(Question Two now added)  (Read 2894 times)
LittlePilgrim
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« on: September 09, 2005, 02:21:32 PM »

This is something I've been studying, and I thought I'd share what I've learned with you. Perhaps I'll even be able to answer some of your questions, and allow you to grow to an even closer relationship with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Over the next ten weeks, I will be updating this post (Or topic, if it turns out to be too long), and adding a new question as well as the answer to that question. I welcome any questions/comments, but please keep them constructive and sincere... So... Without further ado, I give you:

QUESTION NUMBER 1:
Does God Exist?
 

Answer: I pose this question first, because it is foundational. It is perhaps the most important because all other questions will eventually lead back to and either support or go against what I tell you here.

It is important to understand that we all have had doubts at some point or another about the existence of God. Even those of us who are Christians are not immune to such things. Discussing this very issue, my friend (A pastor's son), Jesse Gaskill spoke of a time when doubt entered his mind, when his mother lay sick on a hospital bed. She was not expected to live. When my father was killed a couple years ago, I too had my doubts for a time. If God exists, if He is loving and good, then how can He allow suffering and death? This is another question I will pose and attempt to answer later.

Through many discussions and through my own studies, I have seen many reasons given for people to doubt the existence of God: Evil people, moral relativism (I.E. There is no 'absolute right and wrong'), evolution, lack of scientific evidence, or not being able to detect God with our five senses, natural disasters (such as hurricane Katrina), death and suffering (Such as the issues Jesse dealt with), and the fact that there are literally hundreds of religions world-wide which all claim to have 'the truth.'

However, I myself have also come across and experienced many reasons to believe:

1) Miracles. Even if you do not believe in miracles, the fact of the matter is they can and do happen. Jesse's mother was not expected to live. Most of the doctors had been ready to give up on her. Nevertheless, she miraculously survived. There was no explanation for it. A similar situation happened with my uncle Mike, who had gone into a coma and was thought to be dead. But miraculously, he recovered (The doctors were astounded) and lived for another six months! Life itself is a miracle... Whether you believe in Evolution or Intelligent Design, there is simply NO CONCRETE, PROVEN-BEYOND-THE-SHADOW-OF-A-DOUBT ANSWER for how life came to be.

2) There is also the teleological argument (In layman's terms, 'the complexity of creation' argument). Simply put, (and this will not become an evolution debate. This is merely one reason I have listed among many) if evolution were true, there would be no way for us to see the complexity of the world around us as we do. The human body is a marvelous thing, capable of repairing itself without special machinery, the mind quicker than the fastest of supercomputers, with reasoning skill and deeper emotions than any other living creature. On a smaller level, there is the flagellum, the whip-like propeller used by many cells (such as sperm cells). This is made up of approx. thirty-five interlocking parts, which scientists agree could not have come together on their own over time, as taking away one component would render the flagellum absolutely useless. If something is useless, according to evolutionary theory, it is gotten rid of.

3)There is the cosmological, or KALAM argument. This argument is relatively simple. Everything that begins to exist has a cause. The universe began to exist, therefore the universe had a cause. Most scientists agree that the universe could not have been spontaneously generated. It could not have created itself. Therefore, it had to have a cause, and the most logical explanation is A CREATOR.

4) Finally, the forth argument I will make here is the moral argument. The fact of the matter is that each person knows the difference between right and wrong. That knowledge is innate. If there were no God, there would be no right and wrong. This goes back to the moral relativism argument of the atheist. They say that the only standard of right and wrong is the standard set up by society and culture... HOWEVER, if you look at history, you will find (though there have been exceptions if you look hard enough) NO culture has approved of 'murder'. No culture has approved of incest. NO culture has approved of homosexuality. And these are just SOME examples that have been consistent through the human race's entire history! That alone should convince anyone that there IS a right and wrong, and that we all know what it is, even if we refuse to admit it.

I will pause right here to make a statement. Our science and reasoning CANNOT prove God's existence beyond the shadow of a doubt. If they could, that would be putting God within that proverbial box, and therefore be making them greater than God. However, since God is greater than our science and reasoning, God exists OUTSIDE of these bounds. And so in the end, as close as science and logic can get us, there is going to be some measure of faith required. You believe God exists? You have faith. You believe God does not exist? You have faith... Because to have faith, simply put is to believe in what we do not know for sure, believing in what we cannot necessarily prove or detect.

(CONTINUED ON NEXT POST)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2005, 04:14:22 PM by LittlePilgrim » Logged

For I am only human, not some hero of the faith/ I'm merely an example of God's mercy and His grace/ I keep my eyes on Jesus when my gains become a loss/ As I stumble to the cross. -Stumble, Timothy Mark
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2005, 02:22:10 PM »

Perhaps some of you on my side of the argument (God does exist) are saying, "Wait a minute! We only have to look in the Bible for proof of God's existence!" Fine... Let us go to the Bible. Turn with me if you would to Genesis 1:1 (For those of you without Bibles, I will use a direct quote).

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. -Gen. 1:1-2

Hm... This is interesting. The Bible does not start by trying to prove God's existence at all. It merely assumes that God exists... Let us go to the New Testament. Turn with me if you would to John 1:1-4 (again, I will use a direct quote for those of you without Bibles).

Quote:
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"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made. In Him was life, and that life is the light of men. -John 1:1-4
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Hm... Again, the Bible does not try to prove God's existence. It merely starts by assuming His existence. So how are we supposed to do it, dear brothers and sisters, when God Himself did not make the attempt? The answer is simple. We are not. Our job is to proclaim the truth, and from there let the Spirit of God work as He wills.

Now for all this writing, I have probably still not answered your questions about the existence of God... The shadow of doubt still hangs, and it seems like I have only been ranting and wasting your valuable time... And there is a good reason... You already know, deep down, what the answer is, whether you admit it or not. You know whether God exists...

Turn with me if you would to Romans 1:18-24.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities- his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what was made so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God, nor gave thanks to Him, but in their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for corruptible images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore, God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped created things rather than the Creator- Who is forever praised. Amen. -Romans 1:18-24
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So what does all this mean? Am I some charismatic teacher condemning all mankind and threatening all with eternal condemnation? Of course not... It is not my place to hand out that kind of judgment. However, let me paraphrase a bit here...

All of us are created in God's image. We all have some form of relationship with our creator, even if it is not a saving relationship. We ALL know deep down. But according to verse 18, we suppress the truth, because we do not like what the truth reveals.

According to verse nineteen, it is evident to ALL of us, deep down. We are all searching for something to hold on to... We all have a void in our lives and hearts that we will try to fill... That is why so many turn to drugs, alcohol, sexual immorality, material possessions... And the list goes on and on... Because we all have a void in our lives that we try to fill... But nothing can truly fill it, dear friends, but God... No not one... No not one...

I will answer other questions as the weeks go on (though not in this particular order)
2) Which is right? Evolution? Or Creation?
3) If God is loving, why would He send people to hell?
4) If God is loving, why is there evil in the world?
5)If God is loving, why is there death?
6) Is Jesus any different from Muhammad or Buddha?

There are four more... But I'll list them later (I can't remember them all now.  )
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 02:28:13 PM by LittlePilgrim » Logged

For I am only human, not some hero of the faith/ I'm merely an example of God's mercy and His grace/ I keep my eyes on Jesus when my gains become a loss/ As I stumble to the cross. -Stumble, Timothy Mark
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2005, 03:43:03 AM »

ok, I understand everything you're saying, that life had to originate somewhere, but with all due respect can you tell me in understandable terms where God came from?

thanks
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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2005, 04:57:57 AM »

God is eternal, everlasting. He is, always was and always will be. God has no beginning and no ending.

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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2005, 08:12:10 AM »

PR is right, Wondering. Remember, as I pointed out in the KALAM argument (I think it was the third argument I presented). Everything that begins to exist, has a cause. HOWEVER, God did not begin to exist. God always was. He exists outside the bounds of space and time, outside the bounds of our human logic and reasoning and science... God is not subject to the same restrictions we are. Since God does not have a beginning, since he is the creator of time, then God does not need to have a cause. I hope it's cleared up somewhat. Smiley
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For I am only human, not some hero of the faith/ I'm merely an example of God's mercy and His grace/ I keep my eyes on Jesus when my gains become a loss/ As I stumble to the cross. -Stumble, Timothy Mark
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2005, 04:13:07 PM »

Ahem... And now onto [font size=5]QUESTION NUMBER TWO:[/font] WHICH IS RIGHT? EVOLUTION? OR CREATION?

Another important, foundational question is that of origins. What you believe about the origin of manking is innevitably going to have a major effect on how you view the world, and the issues that we deal with in it. But which is right? Is the world just some random accident? The result of pure chaos? Or is there something greater at work, an intelligent, loving Creator? (I'd ask this not to get into a debate, unless you'd like to debate with me through the PM system, just to keep this ON-TOPIC).

I cannot count how many times I've debated this subject, on different mediums, internet, in person, phone... And the list goes on. Before we begin, let me define terms to make this CLEAR.
SCIENCE: Science is knowledge gained from observable facts, that which we can demonstrate through observation and experimentation.
PHILOSPHY: Philosphy is a general school of knowledge, usually highly speculative, but many times of great relevence.

The evidence in favor of evolution varies from person to person. However, some popular sets of data that I've run across are:
Java man (The supposed 'missing link')
Big Bang theory?
Fossil Record
Contemporary evidence (insects becomming resistant to certain pesticides, etc.)
Darwin himself.

The problem is that Evolution IS NOT A SCIENCE! That's right. In fact, evolution is a philosophy, because it starts with a basic premis that there is nothing else other than observable matter. This is HIGHLY speculative, and has never been, nor can it be proven. The evolutionist largely assums this to be true BY FAITH.

Let's take a closer look at each of these supposed 'evidences', one at a time.

First off, let's look at Java Man, or the supposed missing link. This according to Lee Stroble, an investigative reporter from Chicago:

Quote
When I was a kid, one of my favorite entries in the World Book Encyclopedia was 'Prehistoric Man'. I was fascinated by the part-ape, part-human called "Java Man". The encyclopedia described how Dutch scientist Eugene Dubois, excavating on an Indonesian island in 1891 and 1892, "dug up some bones along a riverbank." Java man, which he dated back half a million years, "represents a stage in the development of modern man from a smaller-brained anscestor." He was, according to Dubois, THE missing link between humans and apes. And I believed it all. However, I was blissfully ignorant of the full Java man story. "What is not so well known is that Java Man consists of nothing more than a skullcap, a femur, three teeth, and a great deal of imagination." one author would later write. In other words, the lifelike depiction of Java Man, which had so gripped me when I was young, was little more thank rank speculation. When I was beginning to form my opinions about human evolution, I wasn't aware of what I have more recently discovered: that Dubois' shoddy excavation  would have disqualified the fossil from consideration by today's standards. Or that the femur apparently didn't really belong with the skullcap, Or that the skullcap, according to prominent Cambridge University anatomist Sir Arthur Kieth, was distinctly human and reflected a brain capacity well within the range of humans living today. Or that a 342 page scientific report from a fact-finding expedition of nineteen evolutionists demolished Dubois' claims and concluded that Java Man played no part in human evolution.
In short, Java Man was not an ape-man as I had been led to believe, but he was 'a true member of the human family.' This fact was apparently lost on Time Magazine, which as recently as 1994 treated Java Man as a legitimate evolutionary anscestor. As I leaf back through my time-worn copies of World Book from my childhood, I can now see how faulty scienced forced my friend Java Man into an evolutionary parade that is based more on imagination than reality.

So that is one pillar of evolution that has been knocked down.. The fact of the matter is that there IS no missing link that has ever been found. This is even admitted in text books.

Most evolutionists would have you believe that Evolution is based on "Fact, not Faith," and that Christianity is based on "Faith, not fact." In the textbook "Biology", written by Miller and Levine, there are many examples that show their support of evolutionis based on faith, not science.

(CONTINUED IN NEXT POST)
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For I am only human, not some hero of the faith/ I'm merely an example of God's mercy and His grace/ I keep my eyes on Jesus when my gains become a loss/ As I stumble to the cross. -Stumble, Timothy Mark
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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2005, 07:53:00 PM »

Quote
"Although the fossil record has missing pieces, paleontologists have assembled good evolutionary histories for many groups of organisms." -Miller and Levine

Miller and Levine ADMIT that the fossil record is incomplete, yet they have FAITH that someday we will find the missing pieces and they will be proven correct. Their belief is based on faith, not actual data.

Let's spend a short time on the Big Bang theory now... There isn't much to be said here. In fact, most scientists, whether they are in favor of Evolution or Creation tend to support the 'Big Bang' theory.

Evolutionary Big Bang holds that the universe began with a sudden, catastrophic flash of light and energy... Hm... That sounds familiar. Look with me if you would at the Bible, the book of Genisis, chapter 1, verse 3. (Direct quote here for those without Bibles)

Quote
"And God said, 'Let there be light'. And there was light." -Genisis 1:3


This is perhaps THE ONE AREA that evolutionists and creationists are able to agree. Both scientific data and the Bible support the Big Bang. HOWEVER, what causes that HAS been a matter of dissent, and that goes back to the question of whether God exists.

The Fossil Record:
Another major pillar for Evolution has been the Fossil Record, which is thought to show an upward progression of species from simplicity and chaos to complexity and order through the ages. HOWEVER! This IS NOT THE CASE.

Concerning the fossil record, Miller and Levine make the following statement:
Quote
"Which species are true anscestors? Which are just relatives? And precisely how are those relatives related to us?... At present time, no one knows the answers to any of those questions for certain.

Miller and Levine ADMIT that they don't have an answer in the form of scientific data for human evolution, yet BY FAITH they believe it.

Refering to a possible explanation of human evolution (which was illustrated in their textbook by a large graph showed their supposed 'evolutionary history' of mankind, but with a question mark in the middle, they said:

Quote
"The question mark indicates that this common anscestor has NOT YET BEEN DISCOVERED. Note the many other question marks, each indicating possible lines of descent. It will probably take many more years of work to more fully understand the fascinating and complex story of hominid evolution."

Again, Miller and Levine admit that they can't explain human evolution, yet they HAVE FAITH that their theory will someday be proven true.

One anthropologist said that because of the lack of fossil evidence for prehistoric humans, trying to reconstruct the supposed relationship between anscestors and descendants is like trying to reconstruct the plot of "War and Peace" by using random pages from the book.

Said Henry Gee, chief science writer for Nature: The intervals of time that seperate fossils are so huge that we cannot say anything definite about their possible connection through anscestry and descent." As a result, he said, the conventional picture of human evolution is "a completely human invention created after the fact, shaped to accord with human predjudices." And then, if that wasn't enough, he added this clincher, "To take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested, but an assertion that carries the same validity as a bedtime story- amusing, perhaps even instructive, but not scientific."

Further, the true evidence of the fossil record, WHEN LOOKED AT BY OBJECTIVE SCIENCE, actually points AWAY from evolution. Rather than seeing upward progression of species overtime, as we should if Evolution was true, we see the sudden appearance of fully formed, irreducibly complex organisms at one particular point in time.

That fossils even exist is evidence not of evolution, but of a global catastrophe which quickly buried whole creatures under layers of mud and silt. You probably know what I'm getting at.. Yes... The facts point to a global FLOOD. And this flood is not merely supported by the Bible, but rather, variations of the same tail are preserved in many different ancient civilizations' texts... Such as the Gilgamesh epic of Babylon.

So what is my point?

We are led to believe that evolution is 'fact', and that ALL of the evidence reaffirms the theory of evolution. However, THIS IS NOT TRUE! Evolution HAS NOT been proven true. People have merely accepted on FAITH that someday it will be proven.

Faith IS NOT BAD. It is good and necessary. However, it is HYPOCRITICAL for scientists to ignore God because it involves some level of faith, while they place their faith in a theory that has yet to be proven.

And let me take just a short time with these last two. The first of which is 'contemporary evidence'. The problem here is that the evolutionist is mixing terms. When asked to present proof for darwinian evolution, he points to an example of MICRO-EVOLUTION. Yes, things change overtime. This HAS been proven by science. However, what has been proven is MICRO-EVOLUTION, or descent with modification, but not specitation, or the changing and appearance of new species. Evolution with specitation, or MACRO-Evolution, HAS NEVER BEEN OBSERVED. In fact, we find it actually prevented by such things as reproductive isolation.

Reproductive isolation, for those who do not know, is the most objective, least subjective way to determine the difference between species. A horse and a donkey are different species. They breed and produce a mule. HOWEVER, that mule is STERILE. It CANNOT reproduce. Evolution is prevented.

And as for Darwin, he himself admitted that he was wrong. He said, "I am quite consciously aware my speculations are outside the bounds of true science." And yet people continue to follow the theory he himself admitted to be wrong. Friends, that's not reasonable faith... That's BLIND faith... A faith based mainly on either ignorance or arrogence. BLIND FAITH is NEVER a good thing.

In short, let me quote Sherlock Holmes. "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." If Evolution is impossible, the only other reasonable explanation is a loving, intelligent, all-powerful Designer. And the point of this whole thing friends? That designer is God.

ADMINS: I Hope you will not consider this advertising, as I add the following link ONLY to lend credence to my argument, and to show that it is not only Christians which are skeptical about the validity of Evolution, but rather MANY objective scientists.

http://www.discovery.org/articleFiles/PDFs/100ScientistsAd.pdf
« Last Edit: September 11, 2005, 07:56:23 PM by LittlePilgrim » Logged

For I am only human, not some hero of the faith/ I'm merely an example of God's mercy and His grace/ I keep my eyes on Jesus when my gains become a loss/ As I stumble to the cross. -Stumble, Timothy Mark
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2005, 11:45:20 AM »

LittlePilgrim,

Early in my conversion, I recognized thru the study of the Word, that the Bible is a history book, written not only about Gods dealings with mankind, but more specifically with a people, whom he says He has chosen unto Himself, those that are spoken of are identified as a nation called Israel.

Their history confirms that there is a God.

There is no other nation in the history of nations that is like theirs, and they would not have risen from the ashes of history as a nation after nearly 2000 years of being scattered throughout the world in fullfillment of Gods Word to take their place among the nations of the world, if there were no God.

They are the apple of His eye, and He will fight for them in the end, and in the latter days they as a nation will turn to Him and be saved in ONE DAY.

We are living in those days, and only those who have no interest in the truth deny these things.

Science never has and never will prove the existance of God, because those who study it, have already failed to recognize the existance of Him, by simply admiring and considering His creation.

By the time a so called scientist begings studying science, he has already made up his mind concerning God, and if he doesn't believe, he will never see the trees because of the forest.

He says to all would be scientists;

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


                                                   Job 38:4-7


Anyhow I enjoyed reading your posts.
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2005, 11:55:03 AM »

I agree. Science cannot be used to prove God's existence. HOWEVER, it is like a building block. It can lead one either away from God, or in the case of men like Lee Stroble, Viggo Olson (a man with a whole raft of letters after his name: M.D, M.S, Litt. D., D.H., F.A.C.S., F.I.C.S., and D.T.M. & H.) and many others, it can lead toward God. Science and faith ARE compatible... But one has to look at the evidence objectively, and one will see how it fits perfectly with God's word... His History Book, His Love Letter... True science doesn't prove God, but like a prosecutor in a court room, we can certainly use cumulative evidence to build a good case. Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2005, 02:29:15 PM »

I agree. Science cannot be used to prove God's existence. HOWEVER, it is like a building block. It can lead one either away from God, or in the case of men like Lee Stroble, Viggo Olson (a man with a whole raft of letters after his name: M.D, M.S, Litt. D., D.H., F.A.C.S., F.I.C.S., and D.T.M. & H.) and many others, it can lead toward God. Science and faith ARE compatible... But one has to look at the evidence objectively, and one will see how it fits perfectly with God's word... His History Book, His Love Letter... True science doesn't prove God, but like a prosecutor in a court room, we can certainly use cumulative evidence to build a good case. Smiley

LittlePilgrim,

True ,what you said, however the final step is taken by faith in HIS LIVING WORD, and God who knows the reigns of the heart, gives the faith by grace (to all, who come to Him in obedience to the comand to repentance) necessary to believe in whom would never believe of their own volition, science or not.

The willingness to obey the command, reveals a degree of trust in God and what He has said in Jis Word concerning sin and the sinner.

The case needs to made from the prespective of a Holy God vs's an ungodly sinner, only this will reveal the true condition of the heart for change and either one will turn to God or away from Him.

Only God can change hearts, decisions are made usually by the intellect, but this one must be made with the heart, because undestanding with the heart reveals a hanged person.


Hey, this is a good subject, you've raised.

God Bless, keep it up.



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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2005, 06:12:56 PM »

LittlePilgrim and Arpel,

I agree with you that Evolution cannot be proven, that it is only theory, and that just like religion it takes faith to believe in it.  But if both of you are admitting that science cannot prove the existence of God, why should I believe in a God??  You say that this creation couldnít have come from nothing, so how do we know God exists other than creation itself?  

If one day walking down the street we happen to meet, in a sidewalk conversation how could you prove to me the existence of God?

You also made mention that only God can change hearts, but I would like to ask how do you account for those who change from a bad, degraded degree to that of something good and respectable in society, and this person changed their heart without a God?  I think we all might know someone who has done this without a God.

thank you
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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2005, 06:30:57 PM »

LittlePilgrim and Arpel,

I agree with you that Evolution cannot be proven, that it is only theory, and that just like religion it takes faith to believe in it.  But if both of you are admitting that science cannot prove the existence of God, why should I believe in a God??  You say that this creation couldnít have come from nothing, so how do we know God exists other than creation itself?  

If one day walking down the street we happen to meet, in a sidewalk conversation how could you prove to me the existence of God?

You also made mention that only God can change hearts, but I would like to ask how do you account for those who change from a bad, degraded degree to that of something good and respectable in society, and this person changed their heart without a God?  I think we all might know someone who has done this without a God.

thank you

Quite a few questions. I'll answer to the best of my ability, and hopefully someone else will help if things are not clear.

First, you asked why you should believe in God if Science cannot prove God's exsitence beyond the shadow of a doubt. But as I pointed out above, Science CAN make a good case, as can history, archaeology, and yes, even paleontology, if one studies the evidence objectively. Also, keep in mind that faith in evolution is (because of all the evidence to the contrary) a BLIND faith, which is a faith that is based either on ignorance or arrogence...

Secondly, you asked why, since Creation came from nothing, God can come from nothing. I think the problem is that you're overcomplicating things. Remember Kalam...
1) Everything THAT BEGINS TO EXIST has a cause.
2) The universe began to exist
3) Therefore, the universe has a cause.

GOD on the other hand, did NOT begin to exist... He just always was. He didn't come from anywhere, or nowhere. He just was... and is... and is to come... That's the difference. Creation had a beginning. But God did not.

Thirdly, you asked how I would prove God's existence to you. Please, reread my first couple posts for the answers there... I think that's clear enough.

Lastly, you asked about heart change. My answer to you is thus... NO ONE can have a change of heart toward the better seperate from God. Apart from God, we are capable of NOTHING good. (Someone please help me with a Scripture reference here). That that person was able to change is an example of the common grace God has gifted to ALL mankind, regardless of their beliefs about Him... Whether one admits it or not, that we are capable of any good, is a work of God...
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For I am only human, not some hero of the faith/ I'm merely an example of God's mercy and His grace/ I keep my eyes on Jesus when my gains become a loss/ As I stumble to the cross. -Stumble, Timothy Mark
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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2005, 07:13:10 PM »

Hi wondering,

I do believe that we have met before.

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why should I believe in a God??

Without God there is nothing, without God we are nothing, without God there is no purpose, without God we are doomed to eternal suffering.

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so how do we know God exists other than creation itself?  

Is that not sufficient? Nothing as miraculous and as complicated as life itself could possibly be without God. All we have to do is open our eyes and see it.

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You also made mention that only God can change hearts, but I would like to ask how do you account for those who change from a bad, degraded degree to that of something good and respectable in society, and this person changed their heart without a God?

No one truly changes their heart without the aid of God. They may change their actions due to changing their mind about what is acceptable to others around them but it is not a true change of their heart.



Do you want a change of heart? Are you ready to accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour? There is a God.  He came to us in the flesh as Jesus Christ who died for our sins on the cross and you can know him by acknowledging that you are a sinner, believing in Jesus and asking Him to forgive you of those sins and asking Him to come into your heart.

Won't you take that step to know Him today?

« Last Edit: September 12, 2005, 07:18:32 PM by Pastor Roger » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2005, 11:16:24 PM »

LittlePilgrim and Arpel,

If one day walking down the street we happen to meet, in a sidewalk conversation how could you prove to me the existence of God?

thank you
The Bible declares, The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the worldÔ Psalm 19:1-4. Looking at the stars, understanding the vastness of the universe, observing the wonders of nature, seeing the beauty of a sunset  all of these things point to a Creator God. If these were not enough, there is also evidence of God in our own hearts. Ecclesiastes 3:11 tells us, He has also set eternity in the hearts of men There is something deep down in our beings that recognizes that there is something beyond this life and someone beyond this world. We can deny this knowledge intellectually, but God's presence in us and through us is still there. Despite all of this, the Bible warns us that some will still deny Gods existence, The fool says in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1.  Since over 98% of people throughout history, in all cultures, in all civilizations, on all continents believe in the existence of some kind of God there must be something (or someone) causing this belief.

Bible tells us that people will reject the clear and undeniable knowledge of God and instead believe a lie. Romans 1:25 declares, They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator  who is forever praised. Amen. The Bible also proclaims that people are without excuse for not believing in God, For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - His eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse Romans 1:20.

People claim to not believe in God because it is not scientific or because there is no proof. The true reason is that once people admit that there is a God, they also must realize that they are responsible to God and in need of forgiveness from God Romans 3:23; 6:23. If God exists, then we are accountable for our actions to Him. If God does not exist, then we can do whatever we want without having to worry about God judging us.  I believe that is why evolution is so strongly clung to by many in our society to give people an alternative to believing in a Creator God. God exists and ultimately everyone knows that He exists. The very fact that some attempt so aggressively to disprove His existence is in fact an argument for His existence.

How do I know God exists? I know God exists because I speak to Him every day. I do not audibly hear Him speaking back to me, but I sense His presence, I feel His leading, I know His love, I desire His grace. Things have occurred in my life that have no other possible explanation other than God. God has so miraculously saved me and changed my life that I cannot help but to acknowledge and praise His existence. None of these arguments in and of themselves can persuade anyone who refuses to acknowledge what is so plainly clear. In the end, Gods existence must be accepted by faith Hebrews 11:6. Faith in God is not a blind leap into the dark, it is safe step into a well-lit room where 98% of people of this forum are already standing. Will you be one of them?

Resting in the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Deuteronomy 11:12 A land which the LORD thy God careth for: the eyes of the LORD thy God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year even unto the end of the year.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2005, 11:22:50 PM by DreamWeaver » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2005, 11:37:34 PM »

Ok, ok, Iíll concede that there seems to be no other logical explanation for the existence of creation other than an intelligent being creating it.  I also agree that there had to be a first cause to birth our universe, due to the laws of cause and effect; even a child can understand these things.  For scientists to ignore these truths is idiotic.

But I also wonder that if there truly is an intelligent being that you call God, why did he create us?  What is the purpose for human beings?  And please donít give me the same old story that Iím special to God and God loves all of us.  I want to know why a God felt that he needed to create lowly human beings who suffer for 70 years and then die for nothing.  It seems to me that its senseless to create beings who live only a short time compared to time itself, most of us suffering all our lives in some degree or another.  Please tell me why a so-called loving God would do this.

Pastor Roger, you shouldnít believe that weíve met before because we havenít; I donít know you.  And why do you call yourself Pastor?  Are you a Pastor of a church right now?

I hope you all donít mind me asking these questions.

thanks everyone
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