Who Knocks and Who Hears and Opens?

[ollie]

John 10

 1.  "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
 2.  But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
 3.  To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
 4.  And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
 5.  And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
 6.  This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
 7.  Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
 8.  All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
 9.  I am the door: by me if ANY man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
 10.  The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
 11.  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
 12.  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
 13.  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
 14.  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
 15.  As the Father knoweth me, even so I know the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
 16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

 Acts 14:27.  And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

[John the Baptist]

It's a wonder anyone can be a believer. I can't do anything. I can't have faith, I can't receive, I can't open a door, I can't shut a door, I can't hear, I can't obey, I can't repent, I can't respond, I can't ask, I can't knock, I can't seek, I have nothing to do with anything, I can only rebel.
Grace is meaningless to me because I have no part in it. It is fruitless to tell anyone anything 'cause they can't do anything about what I tell them anyway.
Jesus should have said, Don't repent or believe 'cause you can't do it anyway, I have to do it for you.
You make the word of God of none effect because it cannot bring about a response in me. I am a puppet with no free will.
Now you can begin to speak out of the other side of your mouth.

In His Love,

asaph

*******
Hay Mr. Asaph,
Good post! We know why you are NO puppet   and you can't even kid me? YOU LOVE YOUR *MASTER!! (me toooo!)

We hear the Word that IS TRUTH saying.. "[IF] YOU LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS". (forget the numbers that are in the 'broad way'! that is their decision)

Hay, take heart, remember Brother Jeremiah in chapter 20:9 where he felt sorry for himself?? (strongly!) Notice his remarks from start to finish?
"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I WAS DECEIVED: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in [dirision daily, every one mocketh me.] (poor guy, huh? he was about ready to pick up his marbles and run home to momma?)
For since I spake, i cried out, I cried violence and spoil; because the Wotd OF THE LORD WAS MADE A REPROACH UNTO ME, AN A DERISION DAILY.

(now notice!)

Then I said, I will not make mention OF HIM, NOR SPEAK ANY MORE IN HIS NAME. BUT HIS WORD WAS [IN MY HEART AS A *BURNING FIRE, SHUT UP IN MY BONES, AND I WAS WEARY WITH FORBEARING, AND I COULD NOT STAY."

You sound to me like you have been there, done that, [OR] are about to go through this.. 'forum'? But REMEMBER that Jeremiah had been sent to the Virgin of Israel, not these birds! Try chapter 11:14. Hay guy, you just might make a preacher?

---John

[asaph]

The responses I have been getting from you Petro are so rediculous that I decided to not answer any further. This is not to say I do not pray for you.  
I appreciate the support from my brothers.

asaph

[Petro]

asaph,

Fair enough, you can count on my prayers for you.

I trust you don't think the scriptures I have shared with you to be ridiculous..

Blessings,

Petro

[pnotc]

Still no response to my post, eh Petro?

[John the Baptist]

Revelation 3:20.  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Jesus Christ knocks at the door. If any man hears and opens the door, Christ comes in.

Christ does the knocking, man does the hearing and opening.

Does this tell us anything about Jesus Christ's active part and man's active part in coming to Christ? Does man choose to open the door after hearing?

*********
Hi for the questionnaire! (John here)
Surely you know that you are right on with this post! The Lord tries to enter many ways. (try Jude 22-23) Yet, NEVER FORCEFULLY! That opening of the MINDS door is OUR part, TOTAL SUBMISSION! huh? Matt. 28:20

Notice Saul in Acts 9? Christ is 'knocking' at his door, & knocking so hard that down he went! (poor ignorant up till now chap) Yet, now notice Saul's remark? "WHO ART THOU LORD ... WHAT WILL THOU [HAVE ME TO DO?] ... (and Christ TOLD him!) AND IT SHALL BE TOLD THEE WHAT THOU [**MUST DO]."

And what do these posters say?  BLIND?? See John 9:39-41!

---John

[ollie]

Rom 8:12  Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13  For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Petro,
How can you say verse 13a refers to those who have never been saved when verse 12 says "brethren", and the "ye" of verse 13 points to "brethren" of verse 12? And how can something already dead die? Don't say it is physical death, there is no threat there; we are going to die physically regardless of the way we walk.

Blessings,

asaph

You are correct Asaph, Paul is talking to brethren in Christ, not the unsaved or rather those outside the body.

Romans 1:1.  Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
 2.  which he promised afore through his prophets in the holy scriptures,
 3.  concerning his Son, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,
 4.  who was declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead; even Jesus Christ our Lord,
 5.  through whom we received grace and apostleship, unto obedience of faith among all the nations, for his name's sake;
 6.  among whom are ye also called to be Jesus Christ's:
 7.  To all that are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 8.  First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is proclaimed throughout the whole world.

Paul's words at the beginning of his letter to the church at Rome reveal to whom he is addressing his words.
It is not the unsaved!
 

[ollie]

Revelation 3:20.  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Jesus Christ knocks at the door. If any man hears and opens the door, Christ comes in.

Christ does the knocking, man does the hearing and opening.

Does this tell us anything about Jesus Christ's active part and man's active part in coming to Christ? Does man choose to open the door after hearing?

*********
Hi for the questionnaire! (John here)
Surely you know that you are right on with this post! The Lord tries to enter many ways. (try Jude 22-23) Yet, NEVER FORCEFULLY! That opening of the MINDS door is OUR part, TOTAL SUBMISSION! huh? Matt. 28:20

Notice Saul in Acts 9? Christ is 'knocking' at his door, & knocking so hard that down he went! (poor ignorant up till now chap) Yet, now notice Saul's remark? "WHO ART THOU LORD ... WHAT WILL THOU [HAVE ME TO DO?] ... (and Christ TOLD him!) AND IT SHALL BE TOLD THEE WHAT THOU [**MUST DO]."

And what do these posters say?  BLIND?? See John 9:39-41!

---John

Doing what God wants us to do is what it is all about.

Many seem to believe nothing must be done by an individual because God will choose them and send the Holy Spirit into them to do it all for them. What is the point. Why Jesus if this is so?

Well, God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him.




 Acts 2:38.  And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
 39.  For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
 40.  And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.
 41.  They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls.
 42.  And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and the prayers

Christ paid the price for the gift, but man has to reach out and accept the gift.
Notice when they asked, "what they must do?," Peter did not say God and the Holy Ghost must choose you. He told them God's word and what God expected them to do in accordance with His will. He said, Repent "ye", "you" be baptized, for to "you" and "yours", "they" received his word, "they" continued steadfast. It is all based on something "they" do as God wills.

[Petro]

Petro-

I've noticed an "advancing towards the rear" in your postsings lately.  

pnotc,

So, if thats the case why do you seek the truth, from the rear.

When I've pointed out the failings in your arguments and the holes in your logic, or your misreading of scripture (Hebrews 6 being only the latest debacle)

The "failings" you refer to are your own inablities,  to perceive the truth as taught in the word, focusing your own preconceieved  notions on what is shared,  to justify your erroneous understanding of the scriptures.

I suggest, that perhaps it is you, who are unable to see the true teaching of Hebrew 6.

I have posted the what, where, whens and, whys of  Heb 6:4-6;

Here it is in,your NIV;

4  It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted  he heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5  who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
6  if they shall fall away, to be bropught back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

I don't plan to spend waste my time with you on this passage, since I have posted quite a bit, and it can be  lengthy and tedious, and thge only reason why you ask is to try and disprove it.

This is not a difficult passage of scripture to understand, unless one comes from the camp you represent.

You can't see it, because your faith in the word of God, is lacking, the faith necessary to understand the mystery of the Gospel.

 And I'm not sure what you think I do or don't believe, but I assure you, it is definitely no concern of yours.

Well your right, I don't care what you think, or believe.   From what you have shared already it is evident you don't belive the teaching of the 2d commandment, for sure...and anyone who claims to believe God, but willingly rejects the truth of the commandment, shows what god he follows..

So how about you respond - just to the portion on Hebrews 6?  Show me how the refers to non-believers.  

If I thought sharing the truths of Heb 6 with you, would help you, I would.

The problem is, even if I did,.... you would reject it, and,  it wouldn't convince you  that, the 2d commandment, includes praying to dead saints as idolatry.  Whats the point??

It is no secret why, you cannot see it.

Later,  

Petro

[Petro]

Revelation 3:20.  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Jesus Christ knocks at the door. If any man hears and opens the door, Christ comes in.

Christ does the knocking, man does the hearing and opening.

Does this tell us anything about Jesus Christ's active part and man's active part in coming to Christ? Does man choose to open the door after hearing?

To understand this passage, ,I suppose you must answer the questions.

Why is the door locked to Christs church in this passage of scripture??

Jesus, hear is not speaking to unbelievers??  or is He??

Maybe you think, it isn't...necessary to ask questions..

Petro

[John the Baptist]

Revelation 3:20.  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Jesus Christ knocks at the door. If any man hears and opens the door, Christ comes in.

Christ does the knocking, man does the hearing and opening.

Does this tell us anything about Jesus Christ's active part and man's active part in coming to Christ? Does man choose to open the door after hearing?

To understand this passage, ,I suppose you must answer the questions.

Why is the door locked to Christs church in this passage of scripture??

Jesus, hear is not speaking to unbelievers??  or is He??

Maybe you think, it isn't...necessary to ask questions..

Petro

***********
Petro,
CHRIST IS SPEAKING TO [[YOU!]] Rom. 8:14 & Acts 5:32 & John 16:13.

Unity in Christ??? This sure sounds to me like the 'Confused' ones building the Tower of BABBLING!
--John

[ollie]

Revelation 3:20.  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Jesus Christ knocks at the door. If any man hears and opens the door, Christ comes in.

Christ does the knocking, man does the hearing and opening.

Does this tell us anything about Jesus Christ's active part and man's active part in coming to Christ? Does man choose to open the door after hearing?

To understand this passage, ,I suppose you must answer the questions.

My questions or the ones below that are yours?  

I'll try answering yours, although I am not sure I understand your post.

Why is the door locked to Christs church in this passage of scripture??

Does it say that? It is addressed to the church of the Laodiceans.

 Revelation 3:14.  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; these things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
 15.  I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
 16.  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
 17.  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
 18.  I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
 19.  As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
 20.  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
 21.  To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
 22.  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Jesus, hear is not speaking to unbelievers??  or is He??

The verse says "any man", but the message is directed to the church of the Laodiceans. Does this mean any man of that congregation? It seems a general proclamation from the Lord about what He will do when any man, hears His voice, (knock)
and any man opens.
The point being that Christ does the knocking and voicing, man does the hearing and opening so He can come in.

Maybe you think, it isn't...necessary to ask questions..


Petro

I'm in the dark here with your last sentence and don't understand it.


In His Love,
Ollie

[pnotc]

I agree with Ollie, Petro's last post really doesn't make sense.  

"Why is the door locked to Christs church in this passage of scripture??"

The verse does not say the door is locked.  It simply says it is closed.  The word that means "open" is the same word that one would use to say "open your mouth" - there is no implication of a lock or barrier preventing the door from being opened.  It does not say "if anyone unlocks his door."  Nor is it locked to Christ's church - whatever thats supposed to mean.  The individual can respond to the free gift of grace - Jesus knocking at the door, by accepting it, ie, opening the door to Christ.  I guess "any" doesn't mean "any" here, just like "all" doesn't mean "all", does it Petro?

"Jesus, hear is not speaking to unbelievers??  or is He??"

He's speaking to unbelievers.  Why the question marks?

[John the Baptist]

Hi, John here:
The last denomination is illustrated by a True Virgin denomination. (Only in Doctrine) They are not told that they are wrong in what they.. "thou sayest I am rich and increased in with goods" as the Word puts it. Compare Matt. 23:3 & verse 15.

Now, for [me] to understand this, it can be found in past history God states! But only twice. Rev. 2:5 tells of the CHURCH or candelstick being removed unless certain condiions ARE met.

Now, we read that Laodicea WAS spewed OUT! (cut off) There were two churches with pure doctrines on the scene in Christs day. (one denomination with a Remnant to be)  His own REJECTED Him, not the doctrines. Same as Laodicea. All had 'some' love at the start. Christ REQUIRES FIRST PLACE!

Rev. 12:17 tells of both history repeats from PURE VIRGIN teachings. With only a REMNANT leaving & being the new church. Read Rev. 3:10 & you will see the ones from verse seven (called Philadelphians) who were kept from the 666 (70 AD counter/part) thing of testing for the world. But the Laodicea denomination was tested before 666. This is where Christ's new remnant (or off-shoot) church came from & where the Philadelphians came from. THE REMNANT!

Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 give Truth to this also! The SHAKING or Falling away does the same thing! Being 'IN CHRIST' must have the TOTAL MATURE LOVE of that servant. It was created & then was re/created, but that is just the starting point of the Christian experience. True love must MATURE without emotion being the driving force. True MATURE LOVE IS A DIVINE PRINCIPLE!
(2 Cor. 3:3 EPISTLE OF CHRIST)

Matt. 25 gives a two/fold story of both histories of Christ's coming the first time & His coming the second time. (old & new Testament) One of the greatest deceptions of today is understanding Matt. 23:38's DESOLATE HOUSE. They were DESOLATE OF WHOM? (Both times)

Israel is SPIRITUAL, not physical. Rom. 2:28-29. Remember that Laodicea IS SPEWED OUT AS SICKENING, BY CHRIST. And in Matt. 25 we see an illustration of heaven in verse 1.

All were SLEEPING as Israel of old & Laodicea were. (are)
O'yes, ALL ARE VIRGINS IN DOCTRINE! (So was heaven) A cry came! MIDNIGHT CRY, inside the Virgin DENOMINATION. CHRIST WAS OUTSIDE, and the MIDNIGHT CRY CAME FROM OUTSIDE! (who gave it?-Christ & John the Baptist for starters. remember that he even had converts OUTSIDE)

Then Christ called the 12 they went out to meet Him! Read Matt. 10:5-38 for the MIDNIGHT CRY to Israel & Laodicea! Verse 23 is important! (for He was already there speaking at this time)

OK: the Jewish denomination were [cut off] as His church. She still had new born babes inside her that wuld be given to until 70AD's slaughter to COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE. Some 36 latter Christ told them to pray that your flight be not on the Sabbath Day or in the winter!! .

And yes, both Laodicea & Israel of old HAVE A CLOSED DOOR in Matt. 25! (both became MATURE one way or the other!) When one reads of Dan. speaking of the DESOLATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE? They need to see that the Word include both the Midnight Cry & the Loud Cry of 70AD slaughter. (it is there to see. It has a counter/part of 666 testing)

ALSO: Ask yourself who took over the leadership of Israel (Laodicea) when Christ was put out? (See Rev. 3:9) And what was satan's primary goal using this Virgin denomination in doctrine only!! Read Rev. 12:17 again s-o-w- -l-y! And again Matt. 10:23!

Now in CLOSING, ASK & ANSWER YOURSELF
the question of who LEFT WHOM? Who stayed put in Israel day as a denomination? And in Laodicea's day, who stayed put?
S-L-O-W-L-y now, [WHO FELL AWAY??] The ones who left, or the ones who stayed put?? Again: Why is there a Rev. 18:4? This is the Worlds MIDNIGHT CRY!

So bottom line: Check Israel of old, & YOU WILL READ Laodicea of today! What is New God asks? NOTHING!!

---John


 

[Petro]

Revelation 3:20.  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Jesus Christ knocks at the door. If any man hears and opens the door, Christ comes in.

Christ does the knocking, man does the hearing and opening.

Does this tell us anything about Jesus Christ's active part and man's active part in coming to Christ? Does man choose to open the door after hearing?

Ollie,

These verses are addressed to christians, not unbelievers, although the same truths, will produce results for them, for instance, anyone who hears the word of God and desires to hear more, will begiven more hearing to hear by the Spirit of God.

You began this verse, to teach that dead men, somehow hear the word of God, and open some kind of door, this is the teaching, you people teach to prove that men, of their own ability while dead in sin, are able to hear the word of God, and come to faith they produce, by their own ability to hear.

I and others have shown you, no man is able to hear the word of God, unless God's word produces that hearing, to hear the gosple, and when it is done, it produces the Faith (which is also, a gift of God) necessary to come to Christ.

It was further pointed out to you, that this verse at Rev 3:20,  is speaking of those who are already saved, thus mention of the church.

The church of Laodecia, is a visible church (congregation of believers with unbelievrs in their midst) made up of sheep and goats, the door is closed because, it has been shut by someone other than man or God.

Your attention is invited to Vers 7, the church of God, has one door and that door is Jesus, who said;

I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. (Jhn 10:9)

The door of Rev 3:20, should not shut, yet it is.........why??

Who is it that shut the door, and why is the door shut??

To understand this passage, ,I suppose you must answer the questions.

My questions or the ones below that are yours?  

I'll try answering yours, although I am not sure I understand your post.

Why is the door locked to Christs church in this passage of scripture??

Does it say that? It is addressed to the church of the Laodiceans.

This message is addressed to the angel of the church of Laodecia. (vs 14)
What point are you trying to make herein??

Revelation 3:14.  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; these things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
 15.  I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
 16.  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
 17.  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
 18.  I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
 19.  As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
 20.  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
 21.  To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
 22.  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The next point which should be evident to you is that this verse speaks to any man who hears His voice, this qualified by verse 22,

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The unsaved have ears but can't hear, unless the Spirit gives them hearing, the saved have hearing to hear;  

The second point herein is that He comes in to the man (not all men in this church) that hears, not necessarily the church, but each individual who hears his voice and opens the door, He comes in to have sup with him, and He with that person.

Jesus, hear is not speaking to unbelievers??  or is He??

The verse says "any man", but the message is directed to the church of the Laodiceans. Does this mean any man of that congregation? It seems a general proclamation from the Lord about what He will do when any man, hears His voice, (knock)
and any man opens.

The point being that Christ does the knocking and voicing, man does the hearing and opening so He can come in.

The point has been made, Jesus speaks to "any man" but as has been said; the unsaved cannot hear, unless hearing is given to them.

Maybe you think, it isn't...necessary to ask questions..


Petro

I'm in the dark here with your last sentence and don't understand it.


In His Love,
Ollie

I understand......


God Bless ,

Petro