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Author Topic: The Origin of Evil?  (Read 3248 times)
M
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« on: February 03, 2005, 12:40:27 PM »

What is the origin of evil?   Most cultures around the world have some belief in evil.  The Christian belief is different.

Some Christians blame evil on Satan and evil spirits.  It is interesting to note the conversation that God has with Satan in the book of Job.  

Evil also is related to sin and the will that is against God.  This is the evil from within.  

Was evil created?
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cris
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2005, 03:33:51 PM »

What is the origin of evil?   Most cultures around the world have some belief in evil.  The Christian belief is different.

Some Christians blame evil on Satan and evil spirits.  It is interesting to note the conversation that God has with Satan in the book of Job.  

Evil also is related to sin and the will that is against God.  This is the evil from within.  

Was evil created?


IMO God created the angels with free-will. They had a choice-----------God's will or their will.  Obviously, Satan exalted his will above God's will and convinced 1/3 of the angels, also. This was evil. This was sin.  Sin and evil are synonymous.  In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.  The bible doesn't say in the beginning, God had a thought, and created the heavens and the earth.  We assume God thought it out first because WE do.  Most probably, God transcends thought.  He's God.  He doesn't have to think but His creatures do, hence, choice or free will, whatever one wants to call it.  So then one might ask why God created at all,  knowing sin would enter the picture?  God is God.  He sees the beginning and end.  Love conquers all, and God is love.  He will reign victorious, regardless.  I don't think anyone knows the answer to your question whether or not evil was created.  God didn't create evil.  It seems to me it was a by-product of free-will, a derivation of such.  In no instance am I saying this wasn't foreseen by God.  He certainly knew what His creatures could do with free-will.  Doing God's will in no way makes us puppets. There's much leverage in exercising free-will and still obeying God.  For instance, we are commanded to love our neighbor, but can choose HOW to love them. We pray to God and ask Him what He'd like us to do in any given situation.  God doesn't appear and tell us exactly what to do.  We do what we feel led to do by the Holy Spirit.  It's still our choice, free-will.  If we ignore our needy neighbor, then we've sinned.  God put that neighbor on our heart in the first place. He uses us for His glory.  IMO this is part of the sanctification process. Tongue

   


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nChrist
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2005, 03:50:47 PM »

AMEN SISTER CRIS!!

I like the way that you addressed this question and other associated issues. Evil is our problem and our making. JESUS IS THE ONLY ANSWER!

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
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cris
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2005, 04:16:11 PM »


Thank you BEP!

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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2005, 08:36:26 AM »

Did God make evil?  Hmmmm...NOPE!!![/b]  Grin  Did God forsee what angels and man would one day do?  Yup.  That's why the Bible says...

Quote
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him...

Ephesians 1:3-4

Sin didn't surprise God.  Sin wasn't created by God.  Yet God forsaw, and planned for sin.  How does that work?  Dunno.  I like Chris' answer.  He's God!   Grin  Simply, however, it pays to understand just what sin is.  My pastor spoke from Romans 1 this week and related it as such:

Unholy[/b][/u] - sin against God's Being

...and...

Unrighteous[/b][/u] - sin against God's will.

Sin is that which is contrary to God and His will.  God didn't make anything contrary to Himself.  But He did make beings that struggle with those things that are.  Why would He do that?  He's God!  And..

Quote
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Hebrews 11:6

God didn't make automatons.  He made individuals with the choice to obey Him based on their belief of Him.  At the heart of every sin lies the seed of disbelief.  

 Smiley
« Last Edit: February 08, 2005, 08:39:45 AM by Allinall » Logged



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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2005, 10:54:00 PM »

Knowledge of good and evil came about because of Adam and Eve eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

It is mentioned in Genesis 6 being in the hearts of men and God is preparing to bring an end to all men, save Noah and family.

ollie
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2005, 12:52:32 AM »

Knowledge of good and evil came about because of Adam and Eve eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

It is mentioned in Genesis 6 being in the hearts of men and God is preparing to bring an end to all men, save Noah and family.

ollie

 The keyword here is the "knowledge" of good and evil. There was evil before Adam and Eve. We know this because the serpent (satan) had obviously already rebeled against God's authority - the serpent then, took his rebellion and deceived Eve, who then persuaded Adam to rebel against God also.

satan is the father of evil - man folowed his lead.

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ollie
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2005, 04:46:25 PM »

Knowledge of good and evil came about because of Adam and Eve eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

It is mentioned in Genesis 6 being in the hearts of men and God is preparing to bring an end to all men, save Noah and family.

ollie

 The keyword here is the "knowledge" of good and evil. There was evil before Adam and Eve. We know this because the serpent (satan) had obviously already rebeled against God's authority - the serpent then, took his rebellion and deceived Eve, who then persuaded Adam to rebel against God also.

satan is the father of evil - man folowed his lead.

Bronzesnake
Good points. I agree. I was thinking more in terms of origin with man. The original question was more to origin, period, and not necessarily with man.

Thanks,
ollie  Smiley
« Last Edit: February 15, 2005, 04:50:04 PM by ollie » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2005, 09:30:32 PM »

God created evil and His Word tells us that He does evil:

Isaiah 45:5  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6  That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.  7   I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


Isaiah 54: 16Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.  15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. 16 Let our lord now command thy servants, [which are] before thee, to seek out a man, [who is] a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

1Sa 16:23 And it came to pass, when the [evil] spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1Sa 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and [there was] a javelin in Saul's hand.

1Sa 19:9 And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with [his] hand.

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
 
shalom, nana
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2005, 11:06:16 PM »

What does Sa stand for?
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2005, 11:16:55 PM »

If you mean the Sa as in 1Sa 16:14 above then it stands for Samuel.

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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2005, 12:06:29 PM »

Sister Nana,

Isaiah 45:5  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isaiah 45:6  That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isaiah 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Sister Nana, as used in the context here from the Hebrew, the evil spoken of relates to the fruits of sin, NOT SIN and certainly not the sin of God, rather the sins of man and the consequences. The fruits of sin or the payment for sin would more properly be translated as something like sorrow, wretchedness, adversity, afflictions, calamities, etc. One should not misread this portion of Scripture and misunderstand it to mean that God sins or does evil like the devil. The fruits and payment for sin are most definitely terrible, but the cure is JESUS.

Amos 6:3  Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of violence to come near;

As you can see, the day of the Lord's Judgment is referred to as an evil day, and it is obviously associated with payment for sin. It will be a terrible day for the lost who have rejected JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Colossians 3:4  When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2005, 01:52:35 PM »

Isaiah 45:5  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6  That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.  7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I think that this verse says that God creates evil.  But I know that he definently does not do evil.   There is a difference.
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Romans 10:9  "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth thy Lord Jesus and believe in thy heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

Jesus is our first, last and only hope.  Without Him we would be nothing.
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2005, 01:18:32 AM »

Isaiah 45:5  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6  That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.  7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I think that this verse says that God creates evil.  But I know that he definently does not do evil.   There is a difference.


Kris, did you not read my post above?  I explained that verse completely. GOD DID NOT CREATE EVIL!!!!!

EVIL WAS FIRST FOUND IN LUCIFER, NOT GOD!!!!  In Eze 28:15 it says that evil was first found in Satan, not God.  You can't take one verse like the one in Isaiah without comparing it with others and comparing it with the Hebrew.

Saying that God created evil is heresy and very bad doctrine.

be blessed

Silver

Why would it say that in Isaiah then? Undecided

Ok. I guess I'm not getting it or something.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2005, 01:21:30 AM by Kris777 » Logged

Romans 10:9  "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth thy Lord Jesus and believe in thy heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

Jesus is our first, last and only hope.  Without Him we would be nothing.
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« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2005, 06:36:40 PM »

God did create evil - His Word does not lie.  The word create in Isaiah 45 is the exact word that God uses in Genesis 1:1 to create [bara] the world.  Because people do not understand the Infinite and Awesome Majesty of God, they do not understand that God created and does indeed do evil.  The OT states verse after verse that God did evil, sends evil, sends evil spirits, repents of evil.

He created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden.  There is also plenty of evidence in the NT that God does evil as well.

God is Eternal - Forever.  He created ALL things, ALL concepts, ALL ideas.  He created evil for His purpose.  satan did not get an idea for evil himself.  satan cannot create, he can only imitate.  evil was present in the form of pride when satan [lucifer] was in heaven - he chose to act on it.  he became prideful and wanted to elevate himself over God.

God created satan [lucifer] - and God created evil.  As Isaiah 54 states - God created "the waster" to destroy.

A really good example of this is found in Job. When satan came before God to inflict Job - satan asked God to extend His [God's] hand and cause destruction to come upon Job.
[Job 1:10-12]

Another example is the creation of Adam and Eve.  God said it was good when He created them, yet He created them with the propensity to do evil - hence the warning not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.  When satan tempted them, that proclivity was acted upon and man sinned against God.

shalom, nana
« Last Edit: March 21, 2005, 06:52:29 PM by MalkyEL » Logged

Be mindful of the prisoners, as having been bound with them; of those ill-treated, as also being in the body yourselves.  Hebrews 13:3
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