Georges W. Bush Jr and the death penalty

[Fred7]

Can anyone explain to me why Georges W. Bush Jr, who claims to be a Christian, is so much for the death penalty ? If I understand the New Testament rightly, this attitude is in total contradiction with the teachings of Jesus.  
 

[Reba]

I am a christian and i could well cast a vote to send a murder to the gas chamber.

What makes you think the NT teachings did away with the death penalty? My guess would be the 'woman cought in adultry'. What Jesus did there was give what we today would call 'due prosses'. Christ gave the woman the full benefits of the law. Bad guys today get in the USA get the full benefit of the law. In her case the men there were as guilty as she.


Luke 23:39-43

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
KJV

[Fred7]

As an answer to your question about why I think that NT teachings did away with the death penalty, I sugggest that you read the following verses from the Gospel of Matthew


38* ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
 39* But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
 40* And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
 41* And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
 42* Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
 43* ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
 44* But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

[Reba]

Rom 13:1-3
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
KJV


Fred would you defend your family against a bad guy? or would you  tell the rapist now that you have raped my wife here is my daugther? Or do you draw a line at turning the other cheek?

[Sapphire W34P0N]

Honest question that has nothing to do with the topic at hand: Why do so many people insist on quoting the King James Version?

[ollie]

As an answer to your question about why I think that NT teachings did away with the death penalty, I sugggest that you read the following verses from the Gospel of Matthew


38* ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
 39* But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
 40* And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
 41* And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
 42* Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
 43* ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
 44* But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Does life imprisonment as punishment for murder violate any of the above as you are saying the death penalty does? If so then the conviction of life imprisonment for murder is also against the teachings of Christ. Where is the line drawn?

Romans 13 as Reba quoted is a good drawn base line to consider.


ollie

[Reba]

Why do so many people insist on quoting the King James Version?

Just cuz  

The KJV sounds like scripture to my ears and YES i know that is dumb.  

[Fred7]

Yes Reba, I would defend my familly against bad guys. As a matter of fact I think that it would be very difficult, if not impossible to be a
'real' Christian and turn the other cheek if someone was hurting people that one loves. My point was that so many folks who say that they are real Christians are not really. They just use what Jesus says when it suits them, and they always have an appropriate Bible quote ready when they want to criticise other people. I am still against the death penalty for the following reason: time should be  given for the guilty person to repent and turn his life over to God. They should be sent to prison for life; and I mean till the end of their days.
In any case, the death penalty doesn't deter anybody from commmitting murder.

[Reba]

In any case, the death penalty doesn't deter anybody from commmitting murder.

 In any case? Well when was the last time you heard of a dead guy killing someone?

I agree many who  claim the Name of Christ are not Christian, His Word tells us so. Supporting/or not the death pentaly in my mind is not the dividing line.

This time i voted for Bush, my reason.... I will not vote or support in any way a party or person who supports the killing of the unborn.  I do not know your view but i find it strange how many who support abortion are against the death pentalty for bad guys.

time should be  given for the guilty person to repent and turn his life over to God

Man can not stop the Lord from touching the heart of another person. Man may think he could whipe out an intire nation but those who God has sealed are sealed. We are saved in His timing not our own.  We are saved according to His will.

Eph 1:4-5

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
KJV

[Reba]

Off topic

Welcome to the forums Fred  

You will find here a pleasent mix of ideas, warmth, Christian fights and love, prayer, teaching and learning, even to the posting of different Bible versions.  
 In 5 years of playing on the 'net' this is most pleasent and yet not bound-up forum i have found. I consider these folks to be my internet church home and we all are goofy in our own ways.

[John 3:16]

i have not got a nice word to say about G.W BUSH so ill keep   there are a lot of people that say there a Christian but do they Live it

[Reba]

Did ya bother to vote? To vote in the land God has placed you? We sould be good citizens and voting is part of being good citizens. I guess you did not vote for Bush who did ya vote for?

[John 3:16]

yeah i voted but not Bush or Kerry i just lefted that part blink

[ajjessadams]

I am assuming that the gentleman is refferring to when the President was a Governor of Texas.  His job when reviewing appeals as a Governor is to see if the condemned did recieve due process in the courts and a fair trial by jury.  I very seriously doubt that he, or any other Governor enjoys that part of the job knowing the responsibilty inherint with his or her decision.

During the appeals process, which does takes quite a while, there is sufficient time for an inmate to find the light of God if they choose to.

[shrekandogre]

How is it that you can question Bush as a Christian?  First off he's not the only one who was for capital punishment/death penalty...last time i checked its been inforced before he was born.   Also when you kill someone you give up your natural right to life.  You forfeit your life because you took someone else's (murder cases and possibly manslaughter only).  Also Im going to throw in this Iraq thing.   He's trying to prevent future terrorist attacks from men like Ben Ladin and while he's at it he can overthrow the gov't because they are evil.   If you dont remember our Congress voted on it it wasnt just Bush decision.  How is this man showed that he's a Christian by his actions(they havent been bad), he's willing to say he's a Christian and acknowledge it in front of thousands while some of us wont say it around our friends at school, he's pro-life, and if you havent noticed a majority of his cabinet are Christians too.