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Author Topic: Religious Women  (Read 2222 times)
s1gibbens
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« on: December 01, 2004, 05:03:58 AM »

  Women play a very important role in the bible? Some served Jesus Christ and others continued his population. I think it was a shame that none of the twelve disciples were women, was this due to inequality? If there were twelve disciples today would some of them be women? Is it only due to feminist movements that women have a place in the church today? I have some male Christian friends and they are still very derogatory about women having any prominent position in the church.
It is only recently that I have discovered my faith, because of issues in my life, God helped me through it but I want to now how women fit in...
’Let women keep silent in churches, for they are not permitted to speak…’ (1 Corinthians 14:34)
Is this what God wanted of women?

Many thanks s1gibbens x

If GOD brings you in it, he will bring you through it. Prayers go up and blessings come down!
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LennyToo
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2004, 03:08:01 AM »

I don't think Paul meant for women to literally remain silent...I think that was a warning for women not to be busy bodies...gossips, etc. One way to find out, is for all women to cease verbal expression in the church...no Sunday school teaching, no choir singing, no praising outloud....just think on that for a bit!!!
It would be a sad day in the church of Christ.
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2004, 11:39:26 AM »

1 Corinthians 14.   The whole chapter deals with prophecy and tongues during public worship and keeping order during the worship service.  

1 Cor 14:34 the particular phase you quoted refers to women remaining silent.  1 Cor 14:29-33 deals with people prophesizing in turn so everyone is not talking all at once.  When I used to attend a Pentacostal church the women used were more moved emotionally than the men.  Often more women prophetized than men as well.  Perhaps it was this way during Paul's time.  Paul didn't say no one or only men should prophesize but that order should be kept during the service.

My bible footnotes explain that there is a God-ordained order.  Women are to be in submission to their husbands or fathers both at home and in church.  In 1Cor 11:5 "And every women who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head - it is just as though her head were shaved."  He is acknowledging that women do pray and prophesize during worship but must do so with proper respect and order.  (if you don't know, true prophesy always agrees with scripture never contradicting it)

This "order of creation" and "submission"  are concepts that many women today find difficult to understand.  The family unit: husband(man) and wife(woman), has been around since the Garden of Eden.  God created the family.  

My pastor has also explained that women may have been sitting in another part of the church according to Jewish custom.  If they could not hear what was going on they would shout out questions to their husbands and disrupt the service.  However, I do not know if this was the custom (segregation by sex) practiced in Corinth at the time.  

As for what is happening at your church, I decline to comment as I don't understand what is going on there.  You had best pray that you may change and be given wisdom to deal with any conflicts that may occur.  

The more I studied the history of the feminist movement and the biographies of the leaders, the more disenchanted I have become with the movement.  You must ask yourself if any of these women were pious Christians doing what the scriptures teach.  
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Shylynne
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2005, 06:47:03 PM »

I think it was a shame that none of the twelve disciples were women, was this due to inequality?

Is that like shame on God ?   Wink
God chose the twelve diciples, and, according to His Word, wants the same thing for women as He does for men, that is lives that are completely yielded to Him, and only then do our personal roles in His kingdom, and all our relationships fall into place as He intended them to be.
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2005, 06:24:49 PM »

I don't think Paul meant for women to literally remain silent...I think that was a warning for women not to be busy bodies...gossips, etc. One way to find out, is for all women to cease verbal expression in the church...no Sunday school teaching, no choir singing, no praising outloud....just think on that for a bit!!!
It would be a sad day in the church of Christ.

I have read that the Greek word translated as "silent" is better word as "quiet-spirited".
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2005, 08:10:12 PM »

It has been my experience in the Holiness faith that women are more open to shouting and praising the Lord than most men are. I have been taught that God uses both and if the man won't carry out God's will it is left to the woman to do so. I love praising the Lord and I am not a bit shy when it comes to that. This is only my opinion in what I have experienced.
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2005, 11:54:29 PM »

If women are not allowed to speak in church, why then are we commanded to wear a head covering when we get up to  puplicly pray or prophesy?  The head covering was symbolic, and today it can be applied still in a different way.  If she goes before the congregation, she needs to have a symbol (or at least today someone needs to let everyone know) that says she is not trying to usurp God's order of design (that being God, man, then woman), and that she is not wishing she was a man.  Really!  I think the other gal was right, we can probably translate this to mean gossiping and such.

I have some ideas about the disciples too.  Remember, Jesus was tempted like anyone.  He may have chosen all men disciples to eliminate that temptation (not that he would have sinned!)  He also may have chosen men because he knew that a woman for a disciple would make him look REALLY bad (women were like cattle back then) and give him more things to be accused and suspected of doing by those who hated him.  That new ridicule would have distracted people from his message.  There were quite a few women, however, that Jesus treated and taught as if they were disciples, but never chose them to actually be such for the possible reasons above.

While there were no women disciples, there have been many women prophets, and it is suspected by some theologians that Hebrews may have been written by Priscilla- a woman!
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Reba
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2005, 12:06:37 AM »

My take on this subject is a might bit different then most... I believe God has said for women to be silent ( It is Gods word not Pauls) because we tend to take over and lazy men welcome our taking over. The American church of today is very 'sissy' the men will not stand strong but bend around every curve (no pun intended). Look at what happened in the garden Eve sweetly said  "Honey" and Adam was had. Then he blamed her.

GUYS i know not ALL of you fit the above  but enough of you do to generalize in this way...

Reba ducks the rocks
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2005, 10:21:04 AM »

Look also to the scriptures to read about Deborah in Judges chapter 4.  The Israelites sinned so the Lord sold them into the hands of Jabin, a king of Canaan.  Deborah acted as a judge to settle disputes of the Israelites holding court under a palm tree.  She ended up organizing the army for battle.  When she told of the plans to Barak, a man, he said to her "If you go with me, I will go; but if you don't go with me, I won't go."   So here is a soldier, a man, needing a woman to go with him to battle.  Well, he did recognize that she was a prophetess.  Deborah replied "I will go with you. But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the Lord will hand Sisera )commander of Canaanite army) over to a woman."  

If men are not around to do the Lord's work because they are too wimpy or not brave enough, God will put a woman in place.  It ended up that Jael, a woman, was brave enough to kill Sisera.  Women shouldn't have to go to battle like Deborah did or kill as Jael did.  The men should have been taking leadership.  

I don't feel that God doesn't not really "call" women to be ministers.  It is only because the men are not doing enough that God has to call women.  
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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2005, 11:39:02 AM »

If it hasn't come to your attention yet, there is a thread in Theology under Apologetics called "Re:ARE WOMEN ALLOWED TO SPEAK IN CHURCH?", that you might find interesting, especially since some men have responded.

M, I liked your point about Deborah prophesying that because the soldier wanted her to go to battle with him, he would lose the honor of killing Sesera.   It made me think of Isa 28:6 where it says "For a spirit of justice to him who sits in judgment, And for strength to those who turn back the battle at the gate."   It seems Deborah's place was to sit in judgment and his to "turn back the battle" and he confused the two callings, maybe as assurance that the battle would do better with her there or who knows?  
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2011, 05:09:33 PM »

I quite obviously disagree with the belief that women have not been called to preach, nor to be leaders is not true a, my opinons are based on the Holy  Biblie.
 Romans chapter 16 verse 6.
“Greet Mary, who bestowed much labor on us.”
How is this? a woman again is honored and proclaimed victorious! Again
are we men put to shame. Or rather, we are not put to shame only, but
have even an honor conferred upon us. For an honor we have, in that there
are such women amongst us, but we are put to shame, in that we men are
left so far behind by them. But if we come to know whence it comes, that
they are so adorned, we too shall speedily overtake them. Whence then is
their adorning? Let both men and women listen. It is not from bracelets, or
from necklaces, nor from their eunuchs either, and their maid-servants, and
gold-broidered dresses, but from their toils in behalf of the truth. For he
says, “who bestowed much labor on us,” that is, not on herself only, nor
upon her own advancement, (see p. 520) (for this many women of the
present day do, by fasting, and sleeping on the floor), but upon others
also, so carrying on the race Apostles and Evangelists ran. In what sense
then does he say, “I suffer not a woman to teach?” (1 Timothy 2:12.) He
means to hinder her from publicly coming forward (1 Corinthians 14:35),
and from the seat on the bema, not from the word of teaching. Since if this
were the case, how would he have said to the woman that had an
unbelieving husband, “How knowest thou, O woman, if thou shalt save
thy husband?” (ib. 7:16.) Or how came he to suffer her to admonish
children, when he says, but “she shall be saved by child-bearing if they
continue in faith, and charity, and holiness, with sobriety?” (1 Timothy
2:15.) How came Priscilla to instruct even Apollos? It was not then to cut
in sunder private conversing for advantage that he said this, but that before
all, and which it was the teacher’s duty to give in the public assembly; or
again, in case the husband be believing and thoroughly furnished, able also to
instruct her. When she is the wiser, then he does not forbid her teaching and
improving him. And he does not say, who taught much, but “who bestowed much
labor,” because along with teaching (tou~ lo>gou) she performs other ministries
besides, those in the way of dangers, in the way of money, in the way of
travels. For the women of those days were more  spirited than lions, sharing
with the Apostles their labors for the Gospel’s sake. In this way they went
traveling with them, and also performed all other ministries. And even in
Christ’s day there followed Him women, “which ministered unto Him of their
substance” (Luke 8:3), and waited upon the Teacher.
Chrysostom : Homilies on Romans – Homily 31 on Rom 16.6
 
 Lets discuss Junia a woman who was an Apostle Romans 16: 7 John Chrysostom said
Junia was a female
Chrysostom was not alone in confirming the gender of Junia as female.   Earlier
commentator Origen of Alexander (185-253) understood the name to be feminine.Others included Jerome (340-419) who wrote that Junia was a female.  Hatto of Vercelli (924-961,
Theophylack (1050-1108), and Peter Abelar (1079-1142).19
Not only was Junia “worthy of the appellation of apostle,” she was “well known
among the apostles”! The Greek description translated “well known” literally
means “marked out” and can also be rendered “distinguished, outstanding,
eminent”.
 I know  that some say no way was Junia  female, but I also know  from  well
known Biblical scholar Bernadette Brooten that she is convinced beyond a shadow
of a doubt that she  was a woman.. she had this to say "My own search for an
attestation has also proved fruitless.  This means that we do not have a single
shred of evidence that the name Junias ever existed.  Note that Brooten is not
only speaking of the lack of this name in NT manuscripts, but in ANY ancient
manuscript, Greek or Latin, secular or sacred!"                                                                                                    
Then their is Priscilla
Prisca (also called Priscilla) and her husband Aquilla, two of Paul's
"fellow-laborers" in the Gospel, instructed Apollos in the way of God according
to Acts 18:24-26.
  Acts 18:28 says that after Apollos left Ephesus with the encouragement and
recommendation of the "brethren," which means the Christian assembly, "he
powerfully refuted the Jews in public, showing by the scriptures that Jesus was
the Messiah."  Here we see an account of a woman teacher, along with her
husband, educating an already learned man of great ability and preparing him
fhis greatest accomplishments in the Gospel.
 Anna Luke 2:36 There was also a prophet, Anna* the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe
of Asher. She was of a great age, having lived with her husband for seven years
after her marriage, 37then as a widow to the age of eighty-four. She never left
the temple but worshipped there with fasting and prayer night and day. 38At that
moment she came, and began to praise God and to speak about the child* to all
who were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Women leaders and equality.
 Queen of Sheba when she arrived  in Solomon land was  accepted in Solomons
court without question.  :"Her entourage was large and powerful, there was no
question about her ability or legitimacy as a ruler  because of gender.The Queen

of Sheba conducted herself with the dignity and stature of the head of state.
She did not seem to abuse her power or to underestimate it. In order for a woman

to achieve her stature and position, she would have had to obtain and retain the
respect of her people,the military and  religious leaders andthe palace courtAll
of them primarily male dominated groups" The IVP Women's Bible Commentary pg  192.
 Deborah and Jael;~~~~
 Deborah status and responsbilities  In Israel are taken for granted. She is
introduced as an emergency substitue for the men who have failed to come
forward. Her standing in society is a secure and accepted one as a prophet
through whom God Speak s ibid pg 133." In the time of  Judges a married woman
Deborah was already acknowleged as a prophet and judge when she was called to
summon Barak to lead the nations against the enemy. The text does not suggest
that Barak was weak Judges 4: 4-9 he recognized that the Lord had chosen to
speak thru Deborah and with spiritual insight he insisted  that she should
accompany him to battle" ibid pg 643.  
Jael outwitted Sisera and killed him insuring he could do no more harm.

 Phoebe who was the only female to be named as a deacon.
 
 Church Leaders  Apphia , Tabitha, Lydia, Nymphas, Euodias  and Syntyche, and
Chloe. Lydia started a church in her house Acts 16:15.

 
Eudoias and Synytche  Paul wrote a letter to them and asked them to be of the
same mind and asked of his true companion to do all they could to help them. He
praised them saying they had  labored by his side in the gospel. What is never
even hinted at is that they should give up their ministry, or turn it over to
another.
 MiriamThe congregation of Israel, a religious body called by God out of bondage and
into the wilderness, was certainly a “church.” Indeed, Stephen spoke of it as
“the church in the wilderness,” Acts 7:38. The very first note of praise raised
to God in that “church,” was responded to by Miriam and her women, with timbrel
and dance,¾“Miriam the prophetess”(Exodus 15:20). And why should she have been
called by the inspired Word “the prophetess,” if God had never, and did never
use her voice to declare His will to Israel? God gives no empty (lying) titles.
And this woman prophetess, was one of three great leaders of whom God said:“I
brought thee up out of the land of Egypt . . . and I sent before thee Moses,
Aaron and Miriam” (Micah 6:4).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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Lscarlette
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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2011, 05:13:30 PM »

Equality
 The Bible teaches equality for all regardless of gender.  The Story of
Zelophehads Daughter and Galatians 3:28 make this clear.

 I also feel that   Micah 6;8 teaches this.He has showed you, O man, what is
good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and
to walk humbly with your God.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Prophecy
 Joel 2:28
 Acts 2 :1
"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be
my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the
earth" (Acts 1:Cool.
Acts 1:14 (New International Version, ©2010)
14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary
the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers. The empathic inclusion of women on 
equal terms with men is especially instructive. For prophecy was less to with
prediction of the future and more to do with acting as a mouthpiece of God.
Prophecy was a teaching ministry in which the the prophet declared the word of
the Lord. Women with men, are  equipped by the Spirit .
 
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go
instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your
Father, to my God and your God.’”
 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: “I have seen the Lord!”
And she told them that he had said these things to her.

 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 The Trinity
 "Sexuality is a gift through which self-transcendence may be experienced in
union with the other. It should not be used in antipersonal way as an attempt to contain and delimit  human being. To place artifical boundaries and limits around persons by reducing personhood to function and gender is to regard such
persons as static objects rather than full human beings. If one takes seriously
a trinitarian  understanding of the creation of humans in the image of God, a
number of implications for male-female relationships emerge.Male-female
relationships are to be patterned after the relationality of the Trinity in
whose image human beings have been created. Unity and  diversity should be held
together without dominance and hierarchy."
The IVP Womens Bible Commentary pg 546.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joyce Meyers said it  like this When I think of what Satan has done to women it just sickens me. This quote may not be exact, but is close
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