Hypocrisy - Clothes.

[Symphony]

One of the main criticisms levelled at believers is their two-facedness in civil life.

Clothes aren't suppose to matter, as Jesus and the Epistles make clear.  Clothes really don't matter (as long as you are wearing some).    

Practically, tho, that gets us into trouble already.

A secular example:   Several years ago an article in The New Yorker profiled a successful Hollywood movie producer.  He'd produced a number of fairly big hits over the last 25 years.

One of the producer's character traits, however, and one which got him into trouble, was that he dressed how he liked, even when going to social functions, business deals, etc.  He got into trouble because his collegues, in the same business circles, had to wear formal attire--suits, tie, ect.--yet he would wear jeans, open collar, frizzed up hair.

His collegues resented this.

That's just a secular example--the offender was not touted as a Christian, etc.  He was just "eccentric".  And people didn't like him for it.  

So if Christians don't concern themselves with their attire, then, for the example above's simple practical reason, we can't really participate actively in society--since much of business even today is still conducted formally--in attire that conforms to the expectations of others.  A policeman has to.  Many other jobs, professions, etc., too.

   
The secular working world resents it when they have to conform, just in order to keep their job, if you don't have to.

And isn't that understandable?

But aren't we being hypocritical?

[sincereheart]

So if Christians don't concern themselves with their attire, then, for the example above's simple practical reason, we can't really participate actively in society--since much of business even today is still conducted formally--in attire that conforms to the expectations of others.  A policeman has to.  Many other jobs, professions, etc., too.

Many jobs do require certain attire. Following Christ isn't one of those.  

The problem that I have with a 'dress code' at a church is that it excludes so many and seems to say that God is more interested in our outward appearance than our hearts- which is unscriptural.  

If we must 'dress' for church then the poor aren't allowed. And those who have given up earthly 'things' to follow Christ wouldn't be allowed. And Christ wouldn't be allowed. I don't recall ever reading in the Bible where Christ was dressed in the finery of the Pharisees.

I suppose it depends on which segment of society God has called you to witness to.  

[sincereheart]

An example from a Baptist site:
"When we send people overseas as missionaries, we tell them to spend time learning the culture so they can understand the people they are ministering to. That is just as important when dealing with cowboys."
___The Western-heritage culture is driven by several factors, he said, including interest in arena activities such as barrel racing and team roping, a great love for open spaces, an appreciation of country music and a dress code of boots, jeans and cowboy hats.
___"To have a work planted that is going to appeal to these people, we have to know what the barriers are and refuse to let those barriers be erected," he continued.
___Barriers can start with the pastor, Johnson said.
___"The pastor has to be a cowboy. Cowboys connect with cowboys. Cowboys know cowboys. They have a network, but you have to be a part of the network to get into the network."
___A cowboy mindset may be the most important factor, Nolen explained. "The start-up pastor has to have a great love and respect for Western culture and values."
___Those values include being non-judgmental, a love for simplicity and a country gospel without a lot of embellishment.
___"They also must focus on empowering men and women to do more than just sit in a pew," he added. "These are people who are used to doing things."


___"Western-heritage people listen to a lot of country music and in much of it is an underlying belief in God," he explained. "Because of that, they know about God; they just don't know how to know God. When people from the Western culture come to these cowboy churches, many of them are hearing the gospel for the first time. They find out that God is not out to get them but loves them very much."




http://www.baptiststandard.com/2003/3_10/pages/cowboychurch.html

[Bern]

I believe that, like the majority of God's Word, the verses regarding clothing are focused primarily on the heart attitude of the reader. In verses such as

Matthew 6:31  Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

and

Luke 16:19  There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:.... etc etc ( rich man and Lazarus story)

the key point in relation to this discussion is that worldy goods should not be our focus. If something becomes an idol to you, then it is a problem and needs to be repented of, or perhaps if it causes someone else to stumble in their walk with God, then its a problem. I don't believe that God is saying "all Christians must be scruffy and not care what they look like".  

 It strikes me also that these days, many younger Christians deliberately try to dress differently to their peers to set themselves apart. This to me is simply an inverted form of the sin of pride. Wanting people to take notice of you because you are in some way special.. above them.. you know who i mean.. the different colour shoes, pink and green hair, baggy jeans and lots of hippy jewelery type. Yes.. them.  

If your heart attitude toward God is right, then you are less likely to sin in any way.. dress included. On the point of dressing up for church.... well thats an interesting one.

I personally don't "make an effort" to look any different to how I would normally, yet at the same time I would feel wrong leading worship if I came to church in tattered jeans and big boots... I'm not sure why. I think it has to do with respect and reverance for God in some obscure way... but as you rightly say, God looks at whats inside. I think its an issue for ones own conscience. Also remembering, that if, as in my case, there are members of your congregation who would frown upon "sloppy dressers" leading worship or preaching, that we must not cause others to stumble. If you have to wear a suit to make them hear the message, then so be it.

Sorry long post.

[sincereheart]

I personally don't "make an effort" to look any different to how I would normally, yet at the same time I would feel wrong leading worship if I came to church in tattered jeans and big boots... I'm not sure why. I think it has to do with respect and reverance for God in some obscure way... but as you rightly say, God looks at whats inside. I think its an issue for ones own conscience. Also remembering, that if, as in my case, there are members of your congregation who would frown upon "sloppy dressers" leading worship or preaching, that we must not cause others to stumble. If you have to wear a suit to make them hear the message, then so be it.

Hmmmmm.... But what does the Bible say?
James 2
1   My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2   For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3   And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4   Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?


Matthew 6:
25 "Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?

The problem with 'dressing to worship' is that it limits your worship.  "Respect and reverance" for my Saviour is not limited by my wardrobe.  

[Shylynne]

when the message needs a suit  its the wrong message  

[Bern]

Perhaps we have misunderstood each other. I agree with what you're saying. However, I don't believe that deliberately looking respectable and smart when leading worship or preaching makes you less effective.

I believe its important not to allow a sense of false humility to develop. It seems that some people deliberately dress down in order to underline the fact that you dont have to dress up.

My comment about the suit was perhaps a little bit of an extreme example. My point was that some people view "dressing down" as not giving God your best. I personally am happy to listen to any preacher who has a word from God, and it would be fantastic if people paid no attention to appearances. They do though.

[Shylynne]

LOL  false humility?  

There is no right way to say "dress up for God`s sake"

because that is in itself is a contradiction to all that God is.

[sincereheart]

Perhaps we have misunderstood each other. I agree with what you're saying. However, I don't believe that deliberately looking respectable and smart when leading worship or preaching makes you less effective.

What does 'smart' look like?

I believe its important not to allow a sense of false humility to develop. It seems that some people deliberately dress down in order to underline the fact that you dont have to dress up.

I agree. Deliberately dressing 'down' or 'up' would fall into that category.

My comment about the suit was perhaps a little bit of an extreme example. My point was that some people view "dressing down" as not giving God your best. I personally am happy to listen to any preacher who has a word from God, and it would be fantastic if people paid no attention to appearances. They do though.

And since they do, maybe the pastor should be preparing sermons on what Scripture says about it.  

[Shylynne]

What does 'smart' look like?  




oh my!

[Bern]

I'm not saying that we have to dress up. I never said that. I totally agree with you, and all the passages that have been quoted. I'm just throwing in some ideas.. when I mentioned the false humility, I meant what i said. I've seen this in some churches. It almost becomes a competition to show who is the most humble. Unfortunately people are sinful and the heart is wicked and will trap you in all sorts of subtle sins, just when people think they are getting somewhere.  

A slight variation on this theme is the popular thinking of younger christians who dye thair hair pink and green and wear chains and generally look like punk rockers. hehe Its inverted pride. "hey look at me, I'm different.. I'm cool.. you dont have to look all posh to be a christian".

I don't want you to misunderstand me... I'm just simply presenting the other side of the coin.

[Shylynne]

Inverted pride?   Judging must be developing a new and improved vocabulary.  

Ever consider some 'younger christians' may have figured out whats really important?   The word "pride" can be found on both sides of that  coin.  

[sincereheart]

I'm not saying that we have to dress up. I never said that. I totally agree with you, and all the passages that have been quoted. I'm just throwing in some ideas.. when I mentioned the false humility, I meant what i said. I've seen this in some churches. It almost becomes a competition to show who is the most humble. Unfortunately people are sinful and the heart is wicked and will trap you in all sorts of subtle sins, just when people think they are getting somewhere.  

A slight variation on this theme is the popular thinking of younger christians who dye thair hair pink and green and wear chains and generally look like punk rockers. hehe Its inverted pride. "hey look at me, I'm different.. I'm cool.. you dont have to look all posh to be a christian".

I don't want you to misunderstand me... I'm just simply presenting the other side of the coin.

Here's a thought:
"The way to reach out to people is not to become more like the world. But to be seen to be different from the world."
 

Seriously though, I'd rather see unusual hair colors and clothing than all the latest styles!   Skin-tight, stretch, hip-huggers; skin-tight, stretch, low cut, midriff baring tops? That just ain't fashion!   And it isn't modest, either!

[Bern]

LOL! Very clever I wonder who said that? heheh

Different in a good way. hehe Yeah you're right though, that is better than some things. I suppose its more just my personal reaction towards stuff that i see going on around me... england has generally become a very spiritually confused nation. What Paul called "another gospel" is rampant over here. Kinda makes you more alert to subtle things i suppose. Folks here will have to forgive my forthrightness. hehe

[Bern]

I'm pleased someone sees part of what I'm getting at. In no way do I believe that "dressing up" makes us more or less effective as Christians, or more or less acceptable in God's sight. Like silver said, its a question of respect and effort. Its a personal thing. But what Silver mentioned about the way people wore "rock t shirts" was a good example of the teen culture that has invaded church these days. As you might have gathered I have a great dislike for the spirit of this age.. the age of compromise, at least thats how i see it. I wonder how many times I've seen teenagers wearing t shirts promoting some heavy metal band in a church service. A band that dishonours God and is an abomination in His sight.

Wow, I really do sound like an old man don't I? lol

The reason that "teen culture" and all that goes along with it, gets to me so much, is because I see all its effects in churches in my area all the time.  They aren't positive effects either. It seems to just go another step towards the permissiveness towards sin.

But ok the original thread was a lighthearted one about clothes.. so.. lol I wont get sidetracked here.