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Author Topic: Revelation accounts...  (Read 2068 times)
Seven_Tides
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« on: June 16, 2003, 09:26:39 PM »

Quote
Revelation 6:13
"and the STARS of the sky fell on to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind."
Quote

I have examined this verse closely, and I believe that STARS
does not refer to actual gaseous stars. First of all, a real
star would char the earth if it moved one mile closer, let alone
falling upon the earth. Second, stars are held by gravity, so
they wouldn't be able to fall in the first place, especially if they are light years below the earth. Thirdly, wouldn't the
passage say STARS OF SPACE rather than STARS OF THE
SKY if it were talking about gaseous stars? I believe these are
angels, because angels are referred to as stars in the Bible, and Lucifer was referred to as the "Morning Star."

Here are a few other passages.

Quote
Revelation 8:10-12
"The third angel sounded, and a GREAT STAR fell from heaven,
burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters. The name of the star is called Wormwood; and a third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because they were made bitter."

I believe this one is a chemical/biological weapon. Why?

1>Wormwood is poison, and so is a chemical weapon.
2>It will burn like a torch if it is located in space, and then
dropping onto the earth, through the atmosphere.
3>It will drop from heaven ( which is the sky)

Quote
Revelation 9:1
"Then the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a STAR from heaven
which had fallen to the earth; and the key to the bottomless
pit was given to HIM."

There is no doubt that this no gaseous star, for it refers to
the STAR as a HIM. Are gaseous stars referred to hims or hers? No. They are referred to as "its". We know that an actual star would char the Earth within an increase of one mile towards the Earth, and it can't be a comet because, like
anything that is non gender, it's referred to as an "it". It can't
be Jesus, because HE is HIS time of glory, and would definitely contradict the Prophecy. It can't be the antichrist
or the false prophet either, because they have not been
introduced yet. So I believe it is Satan himself. Why? He is
Abbadon and Apollyon, the Angel of the Abyss, the Destroyer,
the one who has the key to the bottomless pit. This takes
place after the War in Heaven, when Satan and his demons
fall from Heaven (Revelation 12:7-10).

What do you think?

I don't believe this is perfectly true. It's only a possibility; an
observation. I have studied these verses carefully, but I am
probably wrong.  

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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2003, 12:35:12 AM »

Seven_Tides

Beautiful study process if I may say so, but there are critical problems within it's content.

In reading the quotes from scripture you have provided I see alterations from the actual text as in a revised or altered edition of the Bible. Which version are you studying?

Second I would re-read concerning the Destroyer and ponder this: Ok read first and ponder later...


Revelation:9

3
And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have "not" the seal of God in their foreheads.
5
And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

11
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

18
By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19
For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21
Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

The ones being "tormented" are in torment for what they have heard from the very ones described by most as the bad guys.

Read it carefully and tell me the part that says these are the evil ones. (Abaddon and those with him.) Even the name is backwards as abba don is spelled aba ddon.

You will find that Destroyer works both ways. If you are the good guys and have come to destroy the ways of those who proudly sin, Destroyer is a good thing. And if the Truth is torturing you even the torture is a good thing, no?

I am not putting a curve on this segment I am stopping one. Look at it closely and tell me what you see for yourself.



The word Star is flexable. We use it every day to signify the key players in a good movie as well as sports and all other prospective arenas of competition. Is it not written that Heaven is under attack and with the sword of the mouth (The Word) Angels shall fight.

You are right on in feeling they might be Angels of the Lord. (The Stars)

Expansion:

If the Pit were to be the web. And the key happened to be the thing that unlocked it for the world to better see and use, would that not make Bill Gates a candidate for the Angelic position described because of windows?

He's a man not an Angel you say?

I would say re-read the scripture more carefully!

(This is where I install a ton of scripture but instead I will just mention a couple of things)

 There is but one Judgement day, and besides scripture calling the worthy the Angels of the Lord, I can quote Him directly concerning judgement day.

"Know ye not that we judge angels?"

I say this to your edification and along the path which is truth I desire all who walk to look carefully and see the Truth.

I must also mention something very important directly from the Lord. In the time frame described often as "In that day" the Lord has said, "The greatest shall be least, and the least shall be greatest"

"The first last and the last first."

Trust that I can make mention of many things that will stear those who seek in the right direction, but in the end it is for them to find by their own efforts. (The whole truth I mean) And to reveal all things would rob them of that chance. Therefore, I only point and watch as they go about their way to seeing and saying it is truth.

That's when you have found Him.


(P.S. comcerning the third part of men know this: There are three kinds of men today and they are known by their level of belief. )

I knew the whole time. (sought and found proof)
I shall believe just in case. (heard a little and are afraid)
You must think I have lost my mind. (forget it)

Which third would you say will hear and be tormented by the sting of the Truth?

In your service.

John.

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Ancient and Honourable, John West.
Seven_Tides
Guest
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2003, 11:51:54 AM »

[quote from Comforter today at 12:35:12am:]Seven_Tides

Beautiful study process if I may say so, but there are critical problems within it's content.

In reading the quotes from scripture you have provided I see alterations from the actual text as in a revised or altered edition of the Bible. Which version are you studying?

Second I would re-read concerning the Destroyer and ponder this: Ok read first and ponder later...


Revelation:9

3
And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have "not" the seal of God in their foreheads.
5
And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

11
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

18
By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19
For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21
Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

The ones being "tormented" are in torment for what they have heard from the very ones described by most as the bad guys.

Read it carefully and tell me the part that says these are the evil ones. (Abaddon and those with him.) Even the name is backwards as abba don is spelled aba ddon.

You will find that Destroyer works both ways. If you are the good guys and have come to destroy the ways of those who proudly sin, Destroyer is a good thing. And if the Truth is torturing you even the torture is a good thing, no?

I am not putting a curve on this segment I am stopping one. Look at it closely and tell me what you see for yourself.



The word Star is flexable. We use it every day to signify the key players in a good movie as well as sports and all other prospective arenas of competition. Is it not written that Heaven is under attack and with the sword of the mouth (The Word) Angels shall fight.

You are right on in feeling they might be Angels of the Lord. (The Stars)

Expansion:

If the Pit were to be the web. And the key happened to be the thing that unlocked it for the world to better see and use, would that not make Bill Gates a candidate for the Angelic position described because of windows?

He's a man not an Angel you say?

I would say re-read the scripture more carefully!

(This is where I install a ton of scripture but instead I will just mention a couple of things)

There is but one Judgement day, and besides scripture calling the worthy the Angels of the Lord, I can quote Him directly concerning judgement day.

"Know ye not that we judge angels?"

I say this to your edification and along the path which is truth I desire all who walk to look carefully and see the Truth.

I must also mention something very important directly from the Lord. In the time frame described often as "In that day" the Lord has said, "The greatest shall be least, and the least shall be greatest"

"The first last and the last first."

Trust that I can make mention of many things that will stear those who seek in the right direction, but in the end it is for them to find by their own efforts. (The whole truth I mean) And to reveal all things would rob them of that chance. Therefore, I only point and watch as they go about their way to seeing and saying it is truth.

That's when you have found Him.


(P.S. comcerning the third part of men know this: There are three kinds of men today and they are known by their level of belief. )

I knew the whole time. (sought and found proof)
I shall believe just in case. (heard a little and are afraid)
You must think I have lost my mind. (forget it)

Which third would you say will hear and be tormented by the sting of the Truth?

In your service.

John.
Quote

Well, I study mostly in NASB (New American Standard Bible),
but I also study from the KJV 1611 ( not the NKJV.)

Here's what the KJV 1611 says about Revelation 6:13, 8:10-12, 9:1, and 12:7-10:

Quote
Revelation 6:13
"And the stars of Heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig
tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty
wind."

Quote
Revelation 8:10-12
"And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from
heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third
part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the
name of the Star was called Wormwood; and the third part of the waters became Wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

Quote
Revelation 9:1
"And the fifth angel sounded, *and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth; and to HIM was given the key of the
bottomless pit."

*I used the reference in the middle of the page, and I found that " and I saw a star fall from Heaven unto the Earth" link
to Isaiah 14:12, and Luke 10:18.

Quote
Isaiah 14:12
"How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst
weaken in the nations."

Quote
Luke 10:17-19
"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even
the devils are subject unto us through thy Name. And He said unto them, " I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to treaf on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing
shall by any means hurt you."
Quote


I beheld Satan as lightning fall from Heaven. So,
it says Satan fell like a "lightning fall". Satan fell like light. Like
a star!

You see Comforter, the one who fell the first time was Lucifer.
The one who falls again is Satan. To the one who FALLS to the Earth from HEAVEN will be given the "Key".

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TheComforter
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« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2003, 01:18:29 PM »

There in lies the problem...

The references placed within the text often are unrelated to the subject, and are placed there by key words only. Meaning that anytime a few words match such as "Star fell from Heaven" they are listed along with each account of these words. This is a bad thing when attempting to rightly divide the word of God.

But let's not dabble in that realm, instead try the simple process of trying what is written and you will see differences in the two examples making them different from each other.

A "great" star would denote a Good angel, and when satan was fallen the reference you refered to denotes "How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst
weaken in the nations-(pay close attention to this it is critical later)" meanwhile, cast down  is not great but embarrassing to say the least for the one called satan.

Let the word dictate the Truth:

Revelation 20 contains the same scene as Revelation 9 as if a different camera shot the same scene, both being at the same time, from a different angle. That is the way of the Word that is unrecognized this day by most who study it. To rightly divide the Word one must find this secret or hidden fact and then learn to spot when one camera (so to speak) turns off and another turns on reviewing the same scene from a different angle.

The scene we now discuss from a different angle...

1
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more-(this is the part mentioned above that should be paid close attention to), till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

You will find a hidden blueprint to these "cameras" that shows where the books of revelation line up both across - to denote one camera on each line, and vertically - to denote where a scene matches in time at one of the sites we are preparing for a future event. I will place the image here and you are welcome to study it and see if you can find references that match in certain chapters as they connect up and down while finding each line to be an account of the same scene over above and below it. The 22nd chapter stands alone as the whole like one camera making a quick review of the whole scene therefore it is seperate at the bottom only because it starts in line with the others as they run through the scene from the start and the scene above it displayed as chapters 19-21 starts from a different or later point of reference.



I am full aware that this conversation took but a few moments but the wisdom and hidden facts contained within it take much time to spot and be seen.

"Blessed are the eyes which see the things that you now see, for many Kings and Prophets have desired to see them, and have not."

I will be called away for a short while, I will check in when I can. If I fail to respond now or ever know it is because I can not and not because I will not.

In your service.

John.
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