Acts 2:38 Explained

[AVBunyan]

Ambassador4Christ said:

"Someday soon I pray you will find that this teahing is true, the only thing sad is most do not see this."

I agree with Ambassador4Christ whole-heartedly.

Fellas, you keep lumping it all together – you’ve got to differentiate between how God deals with Israel as a nation vs. how God deals with the body of Christ. In the early part of Acts there is no body of Christ yet – God is still dealing with Israel.  Until you see this truth then you will keep trying put a square peg in a round hole.

My friends - start with Paul as Paul tells you to:

2 Tim 2:7  Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

May God bless  

[michael_legna]

Michael said:

"Here is your major problem, Paul didn't have a Gospel.  The Gospel is Jesus Christ's and His alone.  Paul could only preach that which was revealed to him by Jesus."

Below is what I was referring to when Paul says it was "his gospel":

Rom 2:16  In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 16:25  Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel,
2 Tim 2:8  Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

I understand that Paul got his message from Christ directly

My point was that Paul's teaching concerning salvation and Christ's cannot be different and your interpretation of Paul's message is different from the Gospel message of Jesus.

Micahel said:

"How do you know that this is in reference to John's Baptism?  It appears this is just another assumption of yours."

Just show me where John's message of baptism changed from John 1:31.

I didn't say that John the Baptist's message changed I am saying that the apostles never baptized in John's baptism they baptized in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit and you assume with no basis that this is not the baptism referred to in Acts 2.  I repeat do you have any basis to claim that the Apostles were intending the Baptism of John the Baptism and not the Baptism they had been sent out by Christ to do?

In fact we see in Acts 2:38 that this is not John the Baptist's baptism as he did not baptize in Jesus name and no one ever received the gift of the Holy Spirit through John's baptism.

Act 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Why would Peter be instructing people to be baptized as John the Baptist did it when Jesus told him to do it differently?

Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Michael said:

"The Greek translated as remission in Acts 2:38 is aphesis - Strong's 859 meaning  deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission."

Again we have different authorities - which Greek lexicon or mss?  

The two words are the same in the textus receptus the basis of the KJV.  To accept the KJV and not accept the Greek it was translated from is illogical.

My authority is the King James Bible and if I need to look up a word I will look it up in a Webster's but the final authroity is the KJV. You already know this about me so when you quote the Greek to me it is falling on deaf ears - sorry.

I understand your position, that doesn't mean I won't point out the flaws and inconsistencies in it for other readers to see.

Michael said:

"So verse 37, they ask, “What shall we do?”  and the question, “What shall we do?” indisputably means, What shall we do to be saved."

No, the verse doesn't say that - you are assuming it says that but it doesn't say that - you are adding to it - very clear you are Michael because if God wanted it there then He would have added it there.  When the issue of salvation comes up later then the jailer asks:
Acts 16:30  And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?  You just can't beat the book!!!

This wasn't me this was Shy Lynne - you got us confused trying to answer two posts at once.  It is more respectful to address each persons objects separately as lumping us together does more than lead to confusion as you will find your debaters may not agree on many points between themselves as well, (Shy Lynne and I are a good example) and an argument that carries weight with me may be non-sensical to her and vice versa.

My point, which you have not addressed yet, was that the preceeding events make it clear the remission/forgiveness of sins was for salvation as referred to in Acts 2:21

Act 2:21  And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

...and this is not some form of "saved" that is different from salvation, as you claim below because we see elsewhere that calling on His name is one of the descriptions used to refer to the faith of salvation.

John 1:12  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 20:31  But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

In fact Paul uses the same instruction to direct the gentiles in Rome to be saved.

Rom 10:13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved - which even in your multiple definitions of the word must be discussing salvation.

I'm not saying people were not "saved" - it is not the same salvation that we have today for back then there was no sealing, raising, redemption, etc.

So now you don't use Webster to find out what a word means - you redefine it on your own just because it doesn't fit your doctrine until it is redefined.  Saved doesn't mean saved in the same way in two different areas of the scriptures.  That type of inconsistency is never going to result in sound doctrine.

- all those truths that Paul spoke of - It was a kingdom age message aimed primarily for Jews before they finally rejected the kingdom offer and before Christ revealed the body of Chrsit truths to Paul later on.

So now you claim that Paul had additional revelations of Christ's message later in separate events from the ebing struck off his horse and left blind.  Tell me where do you get this idea?  The only instruction Paul got after that time was from Peter in Galatians.

You don't use the Greek if it contradicts your preconceived doctrine.

You don't use webster if it contradicts your preconceived doctrine.

And now you go outside of scripture to claim Paul recieved additional instruction as time went by that the Apostles did not even receive when Christ was on earth.

You know of course what else that means you are not using because it contradicts you preconceived doctrine!

[AJ]

1Co 1:12  Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

So what do we have here in this tread... followers of Paul?

Interesting

[AVBunyan]

1Co 1:12  Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
So what do we have here in this tread... followers of Paul?
Interesting

Maybe a little more study of the context of I Cor. 1:12,13 will be needed in light of the below verses.

1 Cor 4:16  Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
1 Cor 11:1  Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
2 Tim 2:7  Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

Nice chatting with you.  

[Shylynne]

Michael said: You don't use the Greek if it contradicts your preconceived doctrine.

You don't use webster if it contradicts your preconceived doctrine.

And now you go outside of scripture to claim Paul recieved additional instruction as time went by that the Apostles did not even receive when Christ was on earth.

You know of course what else that means you are not using because it contradicts you preconceived doctrine!

Now that explains a lot lol.

Maybe AVBunyan a little more study of the context of the whole of the gospels is be needed on your part in light of (quoting michael) "saved doesn't mean saved in the same way in two different areas of the scriptures."
The lack of any real depth of study is so evident where the student of the Word, draws conclusions which cause the message as a whole to appear to contradict itself.

I think michael is to be commended for his willingness to search the scripture to see if these things be true,
...perhaps he is more of a true berean than some...who will surely say amen if it looks good, sounds good, and soothes the itchy ears  










 

[AJ]

1 Cor 4:16  Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
1 Cor 11:1  Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.


even as I also am of Christ.

Sorry Paul was a follower of Christ and rebuked the church for saying they where followers of him.


1Co 1:13  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Who was crucified for you AVBunyan?

Whos name where you baptized in?

Nice talking to you too

[ollie]

1. Repent and believe the gospel is good enough for me

2. Do you have another plan?

1. What did you repent of?  Are you counting on being baptized? Are you saying Acts 2:38 is the gospel for you today?

2.  I don't but how about The gospel that Paul preached - I Cor. 15:1-5?  Paul's gospel is different from Peter's in Acts 2 - which message are you going by?

There is only one gospel and Paul and Peter preached the same good news of the Christ Jesus.

[michael_legna]

Again we have different authorities - which Greek lexicon or mss?  
My authority is the King James Bible and if I need to look up a word I will look it up in a Webster's but the final authroity is the KJV. You already know this about me so when you quote the Greek to me it is falling on deaf ears - sorry.

Here is the problem with using the KJV in English only to the exclusion of even the original Greek.

If we have a couple of verses that the KJV in English uses two different words for similar if not identical topics then we might be tempted to come up with a doctrine based on that difference.  This is true even if the original inspired writings used the exact same word for both terms.  We could take the position that the English is an inspired translation but then we develop still more problems.

But what happens for those who use the KJV in another language?  Perhaps one that uses the same word for both terms.  Do they develop different doctrine than those of the same denomination that use the KJV in English?  If they do then whose doctrine is right and whose is wrong?  Or if they develop the same doctrine how do they justify it.

The problem is because we have to decide on how we arrive at a KJV for other languages.  Do people who use the KJV in other languages get their translation of the Bible from the English or from the original languages as the original translators of the KJV prided themselves on?

Regardless of which method chosen the above problem can still arise because this other language may not have a one to one correspondence with English anymore than it has a one to one correspondence with Greek.  

But more than that - if we have them translate from the original Greek then each translation to a new language must be taken as inspired as well.  Therefore if they come up with terms where the same word is repeated when two different terms are used in another inspired language translation then we have inspired translations from which it is possible to develop contrasting doctrines.  If on the other hand we have them translate from the English for each new language version of the KJV then we force those using other languages to become scholars in English just so we can avoid becoming scholars in Greek.

And what of those who read the Bible in Greek?  Do they rely on translating the KJV into Greek from English when they had it in the original Greek to begin with?  That makes no sense at all, and even if they do that they still end up with the same problem of two words in English resulting in only one word in Greek.  

The problem you seem to think you have resolved (that of not requiring your average English speaking Christian of having to be a scholar and study the original languages) has merely been transferred to the rest of the world.  So the problem is actually larger since the rest of the world actually represents a vast majority of Christians; since English is a minority language.  

This entire approach is characterized by what is known as ethnocentricity and is fraught with difficulties if not even inherent prejudices.

[AVBunyan]

There is only one gospel and Paul and Peter preached the same good news of the Christ Jesus.

You read both messages and tell me they are the same:  

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Cor 15:1  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Cor 15:2  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1 Cor 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Cor 15:4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

[AJ]

This is the gospel of Jesus Christ...and if anyone teaches any other.. well you know.


Matthew 28:16-20 (KJV)
16. Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Mark 16:15-18(KJV)
15. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


Luke 24:45-47(KJV)
45. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46. And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47. And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


Acts 2:36-39(KJV)
36. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.



38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

47. And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among ALL nations, beginning at
Jerusalem.

So you see...simple

[michael_legna]

There is only one gospel and Paul and Peter preached the same good news of the Christ Jesus.

You read both messages and tell me they are the same:  

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Cor 15:1  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Cor 15:2  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1 Cor 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Cor 15:4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Of course they are the same, same Spirit wrote them both.

one is more detailed and complete than the other but they certainly do not contradict each other.

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This teaches that the we must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus (not the baptism of John the Baptist as he did not baptize in Jesus name) for the forgiveness of sins (which is the reason Christ was crucified and raised again) and we will abide with God and He with us (which is what salvation is all about).

1 Cor 15:1-4  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

This teaches that we hear the Gospel (the good news that Christ died for our sins to make salvation possible for us) and that if we obey that Gospel and stay or abide in His teachings we will be saved.  That Christ was crucified for our sins and was resurrected and rose to heaven (all implicit in the teachings of the Gospel).

Just because one set of verses is more complete than another does not mean they are contradicting each other.  For example:

John 15:17  These things I command you, that ye love one another.

1 John 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

If you think these teach two different Gospels you are mistaken.  One seems to say all we are commanded to do is love one another.  But when we consider it in relation to the second we see that we need to believe in Jesus AND love one another.

The important thing is that we should not try to develop doctrine based on the simpler statement without considering the more detailed discussion.  This is what you seem to have done in your comparing Acts 2 and 1 Cor 15.  We should look for harmony in the scriptures as we attempt to interpret scripture, not contradiction.

[AJ]

There is only one gospel and Paul and Peter preached the same good news of the Christ Jesus.

You read both messages and tell me they are the same:  

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Cor 15:1  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Cor 15:2  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1 Cor 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Cor 15:4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Of course they are the same, same Spirit wrote them both.

one is more detailed and complete than the other but they certainly do not contradict each other.

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This teaches that the we must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus (not the baptism of John the Baptist as he did not baptize in Jesus name) for the forgiveness of sins (which is the reason Christ was crucified and raised again) and we will abide with God and He with us (which is what salvation is all about).

1 Cor 15:1-4  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

This teaches that we hear the Gospel (the good news that Christ died for our sins to make salvation possible for us) and that if we obey that Gospel and stay or abide in His teachings we will be saved.  That Christ was crucified for our sins and was resurrected and rose to heaven (all implicit in the teachings of the Gospel).

Just because one set of verses is more complete than another does not mean they are contradicting each other.  For example:

John 15:17  These things I command you, that ye love one another.

1 John 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

If you think these teach two different Gospels you are mistaken.  One seems to say all we are commanded to do is love one another.  But when we consider it in relation to the second we see that we need to believe in Jesus AND love one another.

The important thing is that we should not try to develop doctrine based on the simpler statement without considering the more detailed discussion.  This is what you seem to have done in your comparing Acts 2 and 1 Cor 15.  We should look for harmony in the scriptures as we attempt to interpret scripture, not contradiction.

Now theres an AAAAAAAAAAAAAmen


Gospel of Paul

1 Cor 15:1-4  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel....how that Christ DIED for our sins according to the scriptures;  And that he was BURIED, and that he ROSE again the third day

Gospel of Peter

Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the HOLY GHOST.

Both the same my friend.


The gospel for all mankind...

Death=Repentance=Die out to sin
Buried=Baptism=Buried with him through baptism
Resurrection=Holy Ghost=Walk in newness of life


Praise the Lord... it doesnt get any plainer than this.

[Sower]

In a nutshell:I believe Acts 2:38 is – it is not a salvation message today whatsoever.

wow where did you find that nutshell?  

From Paul - I Cor. 15:1-5 - Again, Peter's message is different - you can't see that?

The Gospel preached by Peter was the same that was preached by Paul, as well as Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James, and Jude, and all the other apostles and evangelists.

The Bible has ONLY ONE GOSPEL MESSAGE, which was preached to Adam, Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Moses, as well as to the children of Israel. Why don't you first go and check all references to the word "Gospel" and confirm this truth.

The Gospel is a PERSON -- the Lord Jesus Christ, and HIS FINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS.  Before the cross, the Hebrews looked FORWARD to the Lamb of God, and were saved by grace.  After the resurrection of Christ, sinners look backward to the cross and are saved by grace. JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER, and His Gospel is just as unchanging as He is. Praise God for that truth.

[Shylynne]

The gospel for all mankind...

Death=Repentance=Die out to sin
Buried=Baptism=Buried with him through baptism
Resurrection=Holy Ghost=Walk in newness of life
 
The Bible has ONLY ONE GOSPEL MESSAGE...and His Gospel is just as unchanging as He is. Praise God for that truth.


amen.

[ollie]

There is only one gospel and Paul and Peter preached the same good news of the Christ Jesus.

You read both messages and tell me they are the same:  

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Cor 15:1  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Cor 15:2  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1 Cor 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Cor 15:4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The Gospel:

Peter:  
Acts 2:22.  Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
 23.  Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
 24.  Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.  .....

...Acts 2:32.  This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
 33.  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the Promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
 34.  For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
 35.  Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
 36.  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

What must they do:

 Acts 2:37.  Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
 38.  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Paul:
1 Cor 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The difference being that Paul is writing to believers that have already heard and obeyed the gospel.

Peter is intially talking to unbelievers who are pricked in their hearts by hearing the gospel and want to know what they must do to obey upon believing the gospel.