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The Crusader
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« on: March 10, 2004, 06:25:09 AM »

Rom.10:4: For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
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Kasey
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2004, 08:05:32 AM »

Rom.10:4: For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Of course he is, but The Law that is being spoken of is the Law of God - Christ  is the end of that law because you need his shed blood in accordance with obeying them Smiley

Malachi 3:6: For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

God doesnt change, so for him to abolish His own law is to make the Bible out to be a lie. Smiley

Only the animal sacrifices were take away as according to Hebrews 9-10 Smiley

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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2004, 01:14:30 PM »

     Kasey,

    Do you keep the law and abide by the law? Do you break the law? What happens when you break the law and sin?

    How many times can the law be broke by sin before Salvation is lost?

    What must a person do and believe to be saved according to your understanding?

                                                    Paul2
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2004, 02:43:32 PM »

Matthew 1:23.  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


John 8:51.  Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.....

 ...52.  Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
 53.  Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
 54.  Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
 55.  Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
 56.  Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
 57.  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
 58.  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
 
Kasey, the above three Bible references refute much of what you say.

ollie
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Kasey
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2004, 02:58:35 PM »

    Kasey,

    Do you keep the law and abide by the law? Do you break the law? What happens when you break the law and sin?

    How many times can the law be broke by sin before Salvation is lost?

    What must a person do and believe to be saved according to your understanding?

                                                    Paul2

I keep the Law of God as expressed from Exodus to Deuteronomy ASIDE from the animal sacrificial law. Everyone has sinned and come short of the glory of God, therefore, yes, i have broken the Law of God.

There is no limit to how many times the Law of God can be broken by you - but that is only if it was a mistake and not intentional. Therefore, confess your sin, ask for forgiveness and try not not to break the Law of God again.

According to my understanding, the only way for a person to have everlasting life is to believe in these

1. That Christ was the Messiah sent from God.

2. That Christ was the only begotten Son of God, though HUMAN and NOT part divine.

3. That Christ led a life without sin and therefore died for our transgression, paying the eternal death penalty, thereby giving us The Gift of Grace.

4. That in The New Covenant, Christ commands up to keep The Law of God as it was in the Days of Old EXCEPT for the animal sacrificial Law. If sin is the transgression of the Law of God, therefore, dont sin, dont break the commandments and statutes, therefore, KEEP THE LAW.

This is my understanding of what it means to have everlasting life.
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Kasey
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2004, 03:03:54 PM »

Matthew 1:23.  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


John 8:51.  Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.....

 ...52.  Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
 53.  Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
 54.  Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
 55.  Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
 56.  Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
 57.  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
 58.  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
 
Kasey, the above three Bible references refute much of what you say.

ollie

Those passages dont refute anything that I have said, but merely verifies it. Before Abraham, I was. Yes, Christ existed before Abraham because Christ is God. Emmanuel is correct, God was with us, but as a human, not divinity. Christ became divine again after his resurrection.

For anyone to say that I deny the diety of Christ is to state a lie. I never denied him, only reaffirmed him. For people to state that he was part divine while he was here are for you to deny his death - for to truly die, you must be mortal. God is not mortal, therefore, he cannot die, therefore according to what you believe, his "death" is meaningless for he did not truly die.

Mortality is the only thing that lets people die. If Christ was part God, he could not have died - PERIOD, Therefore, the error of those who claim that I speak not according to the truth of scripture is exposed.
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2004, 03:37:00 PM »

Matthew 1:23.  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


John 8:51.  Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.....

 ...52.  Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
 53.  Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
 54.  Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
 55.  Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
 56.  Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
 57.  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
 58.  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
 
Kasey, the above three Bible references refute much of what you say.

ollie

Those passages dont refute anything that I have said, but merely verifies it. Before Abraham, I was. Yes, Christ existed before Abraham because Christ is God. Emmanuel is correct, God was with us, but as a human, not divinity. Christ became divine again after his resurrection.

For anyone to say that I deny the diety of Christ is to state a lie. I never denied him, only reaffirmed him. For people to state that he was part divine while he was here are for you to deny his death - for to truly die, you must be mortal. God is not mortal, therefore, he cannot die, therefore according to what you believe, his "death" is meaningless for he did not truly die.

Mortality is the only thing that lets people die. If Christ was part God, he could not have died - PERIOD, Therefore, the error of those who claim that I speak not according to the truth of scripture is exposed.

The First Ecumenical Council at Nicea in 325 A.D. affirmed that Christ was Fully Man and fully God.  Therefore subject to all that men are subject to, including death.

The way you believe was he Exact thing a man named Arius believed at that time.  In fact, the Reason that Council was called was to refute Arius' claims.  Someone is wrong it's either the One person who thinks that man was not Divine from his Human birth until the Ressurection, or the Entire rest of the Church, Who know that he is fully Man and fully God.  I'd say those are pretty bad odds for you my friend.
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Kasey
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2004, 03:51:56 PM »

The council of Nicea is nothing but a collaberation of people who believe in a "church" organization to teach them what the truth of the Bible states, NOT what the BIble states itself. The Council of Nicea is The Roman Catholic position on these subjects, NOT the Bible.

Christ could not be part God and part human. The Websters New World Dictionary states the word "God" to be the following

1. A supernatural, IMMORTAL being with special powers over the lives and affairs of poeple and the course of nature.
2. An image that is worshipped
3. A person or thing diefied or excessively honored or admired.

This makes what the council said to be a CONTRADICTION. Humans are MORTAL, God is IMMORTAL, therefore, its in error, sorry.

According to the English language in itself, Christ could not have been part God and part Human at the same time, it is not pertinent to logic and reason
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2004, 05:00:42 PM »

The council of Nicea is nothing but a collaberation of people who believe in a "church" organization to teach them what the truth of the Bible states, NOT what the BIble states itself. The Council of Nicea is The Roman Catholic position on these subjects, NOT the Bible.

Christ could not be part God and part human. The Websters New World Dictionary states the word "God" to be the following

1. A supernatural, IMMORTAL being with special powers over the lives and affairs of poeple and the course of nature.
2. An image that is worshipped
3. A person or thing diefied or excessively honored or admired.

This makes what the council said to be a CONTRADICTION. Humans are MORTAL, God is IMMORTAL, therefore, its in error, sorry.

According to the English language in itself, Christ could not have been part God and part Human at the same time, it is not pertinent to logic and reason

Well first off the Bible wasn't around until the 4th Century so your first argument is out the Window.  Also the Roman Catholic Church didn't exist till 1054 so thats a good 600 year time period in between the Council of Nicea and the Roman Church.

2nd, I didn't say part man part God. He was Fully Man And Fully God.

Lastly, I'm glad that the English language can now tell us all we need to know about Theology.    
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2004, 05:28:53 PM »

Matthew 1:23.  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


John 8:51.  Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.....

 ...52.  Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
 53.  Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
 54.  Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
 55.  Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
 56.  Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
 57.  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
 58.  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
 
Kasey, the above three Bible references refute much of what you say.

ollie

Those passages dont refute anything that I have said, but merely verifies it. Before Abraham, I was. Yes, Christ existed before Abraham because Christ is God. Emmanuel is correct, God was with us, but as a human, not divinity. Christ became divine again after his resurrection.

For anyone to say that I deny the diety of Christ is to state a lie. I never denied him, only reaffirmed him. For people to state that he was part divine while he was here are for you to deny his death - for to truly die, you must be mortal. God is not mortal, therefore, he cannot die, therefore according to what you believe, his "death" is meaningless for he did not truly die.

Mortality is the only thing that lets people die. If Christ was part God, he could not have died - PERIOD, Therefore, the error of those who claim that I speak not according to the truth of scripture is exposed.
"Divine"
      a. God is one. Unity is ascribed to God.
      b. The Father is divine: a distinct person.
      c. The Son is divine: a distinct person.
      d. The Holy Spirit is divine: a distinct person.
      e. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are classed together, separately from all other beings.
          a. God is one. (See passages cited under Attributes, Unity.)
          b. The Father is divine and a distinct person. The Word "Father" is used in the Scriptures in a two-fold sense in relation to the Godhead: sometimes as equivalent to God, sometimes to the first person of the Trinity.

  1. Passages where "Father" is used as equivalent to God,  not implying personal distinctions. Deuteronomy 32:6; 2 Samuel 7:14; 1 Chronicles 29:10; Psalms 89:26; Isaiah 63:16;  Jeremiah 3:19; Malachi 2:10; Matthew 6:9; Mark 11:25;  Luke 12:30; John 4:21,23,24; 2 Corinthians 6:18;  Philippians 4:20; James 1:17; 1 John 2:15,16

  2. Passages applied to God in contrast with Christ, denoting a special relation to Christ as Son, in His office of Redeemer. Psalms 2:1-11; Matthew 11:27; 25:34; Mark 8:38; 14:36; John 5:18-23,26,27; John 10:15,30; 17:1; Acts 2:33; Romans 15:6; 1 Corinthians 8:6;  15:24; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Galatians 1:1-4; Ephesians 1:2,3;  4:5,6; Philippians 1:2; 1 Thessalonians 3:11,13; 2 Thessalonians 2:16; 1 Timothy 1:2; 2 Timothy 1:2; Titus 1:4; Philemon 1:3;  1 Peter 1:2,3; 2 Peter 1:17; 1 John 1:3; 1 John 4:14; Jude 1:1;  Revelation 3:21

      c. The Son divine, a distinct person from the Father.

  1. Christ pre-existent. Existed as a distinct person before He came into the world. Micah 5:2; John 8:56-58; 17:5; 1 Corinthians 15:47; Philippians 2:6,7;  Colossians 1:17; 1 John 1:1; Revelation 22:13,16 (read 13 & 16 together)

  2. Not merely pre-existent, but pre-eminent, above all things except the Father, co-eternal with the Father. Matthew 11:27; 28:18; Luke 20:41-44; John 3:13,31; Acts 10:36; Romans 14:9; Ephesians 1:20-22;  Philippians 2:9,10; Colossians 1:15,17,18; Hebrews 1:4-6;  1 Peter 3:22; Revelation 1:5; 3:14

  3. Creator of the universe. John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2,10

  4. Divine attributes ascribed to Him

      a. Omnipotence. Isaiah 9:6; Matthew 28:18; John 10:17,18; 11:25; 1 Corinthians 1:24; Philippians 3:21; Colossians 2:10;  2 Timothy 1:10; Hebrews 1:3; Revelation 1:8
      b. Omnipresence. Matthew 18:20; 28:20; Ephesians 1:23
      c. Eternity. Micah 5:2; John 1:1; Revelation 1:8
      d. Omniscience. Matthew 11:27; Luke 10:22; John 2:24,25; 21:17; Acts 1:24; Colossians 2:3; Revelation 2:23

  5. The divine name is applied to Him as to no other being except the Father, implying supreme divinity.  Psalms 102:24,25; Hebrews 1:8-10; Isaiah 7:14; 9:6; Malachi 3:1; Matthew 1:23; John 1:1; 20:28; Acts 20:28; Romans 9:5; Ephesians 5:5; Philippians 2:6; Colossians 2:9; Titus 1:3; 2:13; Hebrews 1:8-10; Psalms 102:24,25; 2 Peter 1:1; 1 John 5:20; Revelation 17:14; 19:16

  6. Exhibited in the Scriptures as the object of religious worship. Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 15:25; Luke 24:52; John 5:23; Acts 7:59,60; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Corinthians 12:8,9; Galatians 1:5; Philippians 2:10;  1 Thessalonians 3:11,12; 2 Timothy 4:18; Hebrews 1:6; Psalms 97:7; 2 Peter 3:18; Revelation 5:13

      d. The Holy Spirit is divine and a distinct person from the Father and the Son.

  1. The Holy Spirit is divine. Called the Spirit of the Father, the Spirit of the Son, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, the Spirit of life. Genesis 1:2; 6:3; Nehemiah 9:30; Isaiah 63:10; Ezekiel 36:27,28; Acts 2:16,17; Joel 2:28; Matthew 10:20; Luke 12:12; John 14:16,17; 15:26; Acts 5:3,4; 28:25; Romans 8:14; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Galatians 4:6; Ephesians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:8;  Hebrews 2:4; 1 Peter 1:2

  2. Is distinct from Father and Son, and is personal. The personal pronoun "He" applied to Him; personal acts ascribed to Him. Matthew 3:16,17; 28:19; Mark 1:10,11; Luke 3:21,22; John 14:26; 15:26; 16:13; Acts 13:2,4; 15:28; Romans 8:26; 1 Corinthians 12:11

  3. Converting, regenerating power ascribed to Him. Nehemiah 9:20; Isaiah 44:3; Ezekiel 36:26,27; 37:14; Joel 2:28; Matthew 3:11; John 3:5,6; 14:26; Acts 9:31; Romans 8:9,11,14; 1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; Galatians 4:6; 5:22; Ephesians 1:13; 3:16; 1 Thessalonians 1:6;  2 Thessalonians 2:13; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 John 3:24;  Revelation 22:17

      e. The Father, Son, and Spirit are classed together, separately from all other beings, as divine. Matthew 28:19; Romans 8:9,14-17; 2 Corinthians 13:14; 1 Peter 1:2; Jude 1:20,21

Result of the Biblical evidence in respect to the divinity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

  1. That the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are personally distinguished from each other. There is recognized throughout a personal relation of the Father and Son to each other. So of the Holy Spirit to both.

  2. They each have divine names and attributes.

  3. Yet there is only one God.

Torrey's Topical Textbook. The topic being "divine".

Your thoughts resemble those of an "Arian".

Study and grow, listen and stop attacking, and may you know the peace of God through His Son Jesus the Christ.

Ollie
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2004, 05:42:28 PM »

Quote
For people to state that he was part divine while he was here are for you to deny his death - for to truly die, you must be mortal. God is not mortal, therefore, he cannot die, therefore according to what you believe, his "death" is meaningless for he did not truly die.

Mortality is the only thing that lets people die. If Christ was part God, he could not have died - PERIOD, Therefore, the error of those who claim that I speak not according to the truth of scripture is exposed.

Jesus in the flesh was part devine.  He was part mortal, because he was born to a mortal mother, and part immortal, because he was the seed of an immortal father.  His being half mortal is what allowed him to die on the cross, and his being part immortal is what allowed himself to be resurrected.
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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2004, 06:26:45 PM »

Luke 8: 43: And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,
   44: Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.
   45: And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
   46: And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.
   47: And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him and how she was healed immediately.


    The woman in the above verses tapped into the "virtue" of Christ's deity without his permission. Jesus felt somebody had accessed his power as deity without his permission. Faith of the woman drew the healing power of Jesus' Deity and she was healed. Jesus felt that the healing power came from Himself, it was His virtue that had gone out to the woman. Notice she only touched the border of His garment, but he felt virtue had gone out of Him. This is an example that Jesus Christ was not merely human only while on earth. He added humanity to His Deity. Jesus has always been God and will always be God.

    I'll pick up the Scripture where I left off and make another point as well.

Luke 8:48: And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
   49: While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's house, saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master.
   50: But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.
   51: And when he came into the house, he suffered no man to go in, save Peter, and James, and John, and the father and the mother of the maiden.
   52: And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
   53: And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.
   54: And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.
   55: And her spirit came again
, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
   56: And her parents were astonished: but he charged them that they should tell no man what was done.


       "She shall be made whole", body and soul. "And her spirit came again" Her spirit or soul rejoined her body, and she lived.

    Her body slept when her spirit or soul departed and her body awoke when her spirit or soul was made whole with her body again by Jesus.

    I don't expect to change your mind, just pointing out the facts is all I'm trying to do.

    Your Jesus is a different Jesus than that of the Bible. The Biblical Jesus always was and will be God! Your Jesus (the fully human, not God Jesus) never existed. The Jesus you will face at your judgement will be the God/man Jesus Christ of the Bible. Jesus christ = 100% God with 100% humanity added to the 100% God. Fully God and Fully man.

    You deny the Biblical Jesus, who and what he is and has been. You don't know him and can expect Him to say he doesn't know you either. You won't be alone, the Jehovah's witnesses, the Mormons and lots of cults and "isms" deny who Jesus really is also. Nothing that has been made was made without Jesus. Jesus is the Creator of all things. Jesus was killed in his humanity not His Deity. Jesus is God!

    You want to teach us lies about who Jesus is, and you expect us to just follow you straight into hell. You tell us theres no eternal hellfire to worry about, well I don't believe you! I know who Jesus is, and Jesus is God. My Jesus warned me about hellfire and those who would try to lead me astray into Hells fire. I'd have to be a fool to let you teach me what the Bible says when you don't even understand who Jesus really is, if you can't figure out that Jesus is God what else have you made mistakes about?

    Find Salvation for yourself before trying to lead others to something you have not found for yourself.

    Finding yourself in the literal lake of fire will be a hell of a place to find yourself and realize you were wrong! I just hope you don't mislead anybody else into following you there.

                                                             Paul2
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« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2004, 08:27:39 PM »

Quote
Those passages dont refute anything that I have said, but merely verifies it. Before Abraham, I was. Yes, Christ existed before Abraham because Christ is God. Emmanuel is correct, God was with us, but as a human, not divinity. Christ became divine again after his resurrection.

For anyone to say that I deny the diety of Christ is to state a lie. I never denied him, only reaffirmed him. For people to state that he was part divine while he was here are for you to deny his death - for to truly die, you must be mortal. God is not mortal, therefore, he cannot die, therefore according to what you believe, his "death" is meaningless for he did not truly die.

Mortality is the only thing that lets people die. If Christ was part God, he could not have died - PERIOD, Therefore, the error of those who claim that I speak not according to the truth of scripture is exposed.

Kasey,

You need to get a learner's permit before you drive or attempt to teach driver's education. I'll give you a few hints that should help you to recognize your gross and false teaching. There are two types of death in the Holy Bible and in real life:  (1) Physical; (2) Spiritual. This might help you some in your gross misconceptions and your false teaching about death. Strong's can't help much without common sense, a beginner's understanding, and the HOLY SPIRIT in the person's heart. You are completely lost since you don't believe that Jesus Christ was GOD when HE was crucified on the cross. As a result, you don't have the HOLY SPIRIT in your heart.

Your denial that you claim is false in your second paragraph sticks out like a sore thumb in your first paragraph. You denied Jesus Christ in the same post you claimed that you did not deny Jesus Christ. Webster's and Strong's can't help you or save you.

The only exposure you claim in your third paragraph is your own ignorance. We've had two people on the forum recently who were self-proclaimed Kings and Messiahs. They were probably the same person, and that person is probably you. Are you a King or a Messiah Robert, or whatever name you are using this week? Your writing styles, topics, and beliefs sure are close. Your message hasn't changed and neither has the reception. We reject you totally as King. Our King is the LORD OF HOSTS, JESUS CHRIST, VERY GOD, THE GOD WHO WAS CRUCIFIED ON THE CROSS FOR OUR SINS.

Or, are you a prophet this week? The devil would love mankind to be back under the law. The devil would also love for mankind to believe that Jesus Christ was just a man. Your profession of Jesus Christ was very labored and only after four people asked you. Prior to that, pork and shrimp were more important, and nobody had to pry that out of you.

I'll pray for you Kasey, Robert, or whoever you are.  
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grace
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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2004, 09:27:18 PM »

Quote
Acts 15: 5-10  But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up, and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses." 6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter rose and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God who knows the heart bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us; 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you make trial of God by putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."

Kasey, Psalm119, Charlielad, why do you try to put ďa yoke upon the necks of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?Ē

I looked at the Hebrews passage you mentioned, and Iím not convinced that only the Animal Sacrificial Laws of the Levitical Priesthood System were fulfilled through Christís blood. Those two chapters alone may not prove that the Law of God as expressed from Exodus to Deuteronomy was included, but it certainly doesnít prove that it wasnít.  And thereís just too much else, like I Cor 10, that suggests to me that it was. Nope, Iím not convinced. And, looks like, neither were Peter, the apostles and the elders.

If I follow the Law that is written on my heart, I will not rape, pillage, cast spells, sacrifice people, take a sum of money for the life of a murderer, take bribes, etc.

Re.
Quote
Land laws. inheritance laws. Relationship to God laws. Relationship to others. law and justice, family law and relationship laws. animal regulations, government and civil officers,feasts and observances,capital laws and offences, foreign relations, etiquette and moral laws labour and work,food and health laws, General welfare, enconomic and monetary laws, Churches and ministers, servants and employees. warfare and military laws. and many more
:
In a wounded world these laws are needed for us to live semi-civilly with each other. They and their enforcement keep the peace to a great extent; weíd be nuts to eliminate them, and I know none but a few overzealous anarchists who think otherwise. They are there for our good, and we do well to follow them. However, these secular laws encounter the same problem as the shadow of Godís Law did: Legalism. Secular legalism. We try to legislate morality, fairness and decency, but thereís always a loophole. The secular Pharisees of today still can act abhorrently without, technically, breaking a letter of the law; another reason why we, in our wounded world, need God.

And besides, is there no distinction between keeping the peace (by keeping secular laws) and receiving salvation (by keeping God's Law, you claim)?

In His love,

-Grace
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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2004, 09:32:35 PM »

RATS!!!

Posted this on the wrong thread!

Please disregard... I guess that's what I get for replying while dead tired...

Moving it to the right thread...

-Grace
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