Construction of Image of the Beast in Australia

[Reba]

Matt 7:7-8

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
KJV

[ebia]

Ebia, any good argument is supported by sources and facts not just diatribe. I am sure many people will find the references helpful. Obviously your discussion is descending into point scoring and emotions, perhaps with some sensitivities regarding Freemasonry and pagan sites. You certainly do not seem to acknowledge the occultic or satanic undertones or the influence it exerts. I found some of your answers disconcerting especially if you are a Christian - if I may ask - are you a Christian? Paganism (Stonehenge included) and Freemasonry do not mix with biblical Christianity.

Have you ever been to Stonehenge?  If it doesn't impress and inspire you, then you are really missing something.  Sure, it was built way before Christ was born by a people that had no information about the true and living God, who were doing their best to seek that God however they could.  If someone were trying to recreate their ceremonies in Canberra, that I would be worried about, but an architect using at as inspiration?

You might as well say that the building has right-angles - an obvious link to the Pythagorean religion and to Islam.  Oh, and the phone numbers begin with 0 - more links to Islam.  


If you want to look for satan in our parliament, forget the building and look to the behaviour of a government that (acting on our behalf) stands by while a boat full of refugees sinks,  that locks up innocent children behind wire fences for years, that pays pacific islands to do our dirty work for us.

[Symphony]

I think ultimately that Dawn's image of the beast will be in literal fashion, as Dawn is intimating, don't you, ebia?  

Certainly we all here in western culture are the descendents or benefactors of a long history of ancient orders, customs, symbolism, etc.

I'm seeing a convergence of different themes, one of which is the occult and  world religions, which is what Dawn's focus is.  So we'll see a merging, like of  homosexuality, with the occult.  Indeed, listening to talk shows this weekend, gay proponents are all over the lone defenders of traditional marriage like flies on a carcass--some of them are nearly hysterical with rage at Christians or even just pseudo-Christians who might think that marriage should be heterosexual only.  And the other now global trends--the geometric explosion of technology, and travel and global politics--the "World Court" deciding on Israel's business(in fulfillment of prophecy, I might add... )--who knows, will the ICC be indicting the US soon, for having our Border Patrol along the Rio Grande?   ANd, worldwide socialism.  And international finance.  And the U.S. courst, for instance, are increasingly taking their cues from European courts, etc.

So we see one grand convergance of differing themes gradually overlapping and agreeing with one another--basically, that "man" is the center of the universe.  I suppose then we'll presume to make war on God himself--at least that's the scenario seeming increasingly likely--renegade creatures once and for all doing away with that pesky little nuisance known as "our Creator".

So Dawn is just pointing out one or several of those trends and the possible symbolism of it... it seems to me...??

And I might add, on the "beauty" of the art, of like the Romans, and their architecture.  Yes, it is striking, what the Romans could accomplish.  But I think the bottom line, and I think this is true of most worldly govenments up really until just fairly recently, they were all built on slave labor--and many time, very cruel, unforgiving slave labor.  Any "greatness" ascribed to them, I think, has to be done so with great care; I don't think there really has been that much "nobility" or real beauty, down through the ages, actually, without being too cynical about it.

[ebia]

If you look hard enough, you can see monsters in every shadow.  

[Symphony]

I think it's all generally true, though, ebia--don't you think?

True, it's not the ultimate point; Jesus Christ is the ultimate point, all revolving around Him, and His salvation for us...

[ebia]

I think it's all generally true, though, ebia--don't you think?

No.

True, it's not the ultimate point; Jesus Christ is the ultimate point, all revolving around Him, and His salvation for us...

... and the way's He asks us to respond to him.

[Symphony]

No.


I don't suppose you'd care to expound on that?


   

[ebia]

No.


I don't suppose you'd care to expound on that?


   

Step back a bit, and all these "signs" aren't significant at all.  They are either a figment of people's imaginations and/or are the kind of thing that is going on all the time.   You can sit down and find as many of these "signs" as you want in any time and place if you look for them as hard as you guys are looking.

[Symphony]

Perhaps, ebia.


But how do I know it's just that maybe you don't want them to be true, or significant?


Hmmmmmmmm??

Indeed, when I do step back, they loom larger than ever--the general themes.

Look at the previous century, world-wide, the most violent this world has ever known, in recorded human history.  Two world wars...people killed in the millions--47 million under Stalin, some 53  million in WWII...

And the major events now taking place are global--an International Criminal Court--has the world ever seen that that--ever??

Technology, transportation, communications--all multiplying geometrically(not arithmetically)...

Politics and economies all now move in reference to the globe, not just a locale or region...

Everything today is "global"... (including anti-Semitism  )
 
That's not being "alarmest" or paranoid or speculative.  It's just true.


     
   

[ebia]

But how do I know it's just that maybe you don't want them to be true, or significant?

Whether or not I want them to be true doesn't affect their truth.   Believing something because we want it to be true isn't somehow better or worse than disbelieving it because we don't want ti to be true.

Look at the previous century, world-wide, the most violent this world has ever known, in recorded human history.  Two world wars...people killed in the millions--47 million under Stalin, some 53  million in WWII...

Technology has enabled us to create bigger single attrocities than were possible before, and far more people live now than ever lived before - I forget the figures, but something like more people have lived in the last 100 years that the previous rest of history put together.   So of course the attrocities can be worse.  Never the less, major attrocities have happened in the past - for instance I believe its true to say that more poeple died in the battle when Hanibal defeated the main Roman army than has ever died on a single battlefield in a single day before or since.  Wars have been going on in most of the world pretty much non-stop since before Christ was born.

Also note, that both world wars were nearly 60 years ago now.  

And the major events now taking place are global--an International Criminal Court--has the world ever seen that that--ever??

Technology, transportation, communications--all multiplying geometrically(not arithmetically)...

Politics and economies all now move in reference to the globe, not just a locale or region...

Everything today is "global"... (including anti-Semitism  )

So everything is more global - what does that prove?

 Anti-semitism is certainly not at anything like the worst levels it has reached in the past - opposing the policies of the modern state of Israel is not anti-semitism.
 

That's not being "alarmest" or paranoid or speculative.  It's just true.

And irrelevent.

[Dale]

  Dawn in post #7:
<< Finally take a look at the map of Canberra at the end of chapter 10 - where the major roads form the Masonic pyramid as depicted on the US Great Seal (reverse side).  >>

  It took me awhile to unjumble things from opposite sides of the world here...
  I assume you're talking about the same Masonic pyramid that people who believe in the Illuminati believe is on the U.S. dollar bill. It is actually the reverse side of the U.S. Great Seal.
   In reply: The pyramid is a symbol of strength and permanence and the eye is the Eye of Providence. The pyramid does not represent the pyramids of Egypt. On the contrary, it has thirteen layers because it represents the strength and permanence of the original thirteen states.
  In short, the claim that the eye on the pyramid of the U.S. Great Seal is the Masonic All Seeing Eye is a false claim.
  It seems that everything you are saying is based on the assumption that Freemasonry is evil, something that you have not demonstrated to be true.

[Dale]

 Dawn in post #10:
<< I might remind you that the Pantheon was built as a temple (rebuilt by Hadrian in the 2d century) to the pagan god's of Rome  >>

  The Parthenon was built to Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom.
  The Parthenon was blown up by the Turks when they occupied Greece. Does that make the Moslems our allies?
   You may know that there is a replica of the Parthenon in Nashville, Tennessee, the home of country music.

[Dawn]

Dale (posts 25 & 26),

Firstly the Parthenon is in Athens whilst the PANTHEON is in Rome.

The pyramid with the all-seeing eye is indeed a Masonic symbol (symbol used by the Grand Master of the Lodge) and can be clearly traced back to pagan ancient Egypt. It certainly does not have Christian origins. The all-seeing eye is actually the Ut Chut (also spelled Wedjat) Eye and is associated with Osiris and the god Horus (Ra Hoor Khuit). An ancient Egyptian coffin text even refers to it as the 'all-seeing eye of Horus'.

Regarding Freemasonry being evil - Freemasonry contains false doctrines contrary to biblical Christianity. See http://www.equip.org/free/DM166.htm for a concise article on the incompatibility of Freemasonry and Christianity.

[Symphony]

I'm FOREVER getting those two confused--parthenon, pantheon.  


   *sigh*  

[Dale]

  Dawn in post #27:
<< The pyramid with the all-seeing eye is indeed a Masonic symbol (symbol used by the Grand Master of the Lodge) and can be clearly traced back to pagan ancient Egypt. >>

  Give me one reason to believe that this has anything to do with the U.S. Great Seal. Who do you believe is responsible for this Masonic influence? Can you name one believable historian who believes that the Great Seal is a Masonic artifact?

  I assume that you know that the library at the University of Virginia, designed by Thomas Jefferson, is a smaller version of Rome's Pantheon. What significance do you see in that?