The Jews.

[Symphony]

Who ARE the Jews?


An ethnic group?   Religious group?  A race?


If they're a race, are they a different race from the Arabs, or Palestinian?   Both Jew and Arab are Semitic, so how are Jews any different from an Arab?

If we say that they are different from an Arab because of what happened between Abraham and Sarah, then isn't that "religion", since Abraham and Sarah are only known about through the Hebrew Bible--thus "religion".  If that is "religion", then aren't they a "religious group."

If they are a "religious group", then isn't that in itself authenticating the Bible, itself?

If that authenticates the biblical narrative, the "biblical narrative" includes God's promise to Abraham, to make of them a mulitude, and to give them that promised land.

Unless we are going to pick apart the Hebrew narrative, accepting some parts here, but omitting other parts there.

[Reba]

Is it true the use  of the word JEW comes into being about 460bc give or take a few years?

[aw]

TRUE Jews are the ones who accept Jesus as Saviour and Lord. In order to properly understand it, we would, of necessity, have to enter into a discussion of REMNANT theology.

In terms of who are the REAL Jews, ther has always been a REMNANT according to election in grace. In Paul's day, for example,he is an example of the remnant since he was a devout Jew who accepted Christ. He lists his credentials as being from a certain tribe and sect such as a Pharisee, birthright, etc.

In Romans 11, a remnant will come out of the Great Tribulation who are JEWS and hence "All Israel shall be saved." This is obviously NOT the Church.

aw

[Petro]

Who ARE the Jews?




Symph,

Good question?

Bible answers this explicitly.....

Rom 2
28  For he is not a jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh;
29  But he is a Jew which is one inwardly and circumcision is that of the heart, in the the spirit, and and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Amen.....  I guess we who are counted as heirs are Jews.

Nothing wrong with that..

Blessings,

Petro

[Joan]

TRUE Jews are the ones who accept Jesus as Saviour and Lord. In order to properly understand it, we would, of necessity, have to enter into a discussion of REMNANT theology.



aw

So 99% of people who call themselves Jews are not? Idiot.

[Reba]

Rom 2
28  For he is not a jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh;
29  But he is a Jew which is one inwardly and circumcision is that of the heart, in the the spirit, and and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Wow Joan are you calling God an idot?

[Joan]

Read the post I quoted from.

[ebia]

Who ARE the Jews?


An ethnic group?   Religious group?  A race?


If they're a race, are they a different race from the Arabs, or Palestinian?   Both Jew and Arab are Semitic, so how are Jews any different from an Arab?

There are definite genetic traits that identify the pure jewish line.   Of course, there are very few jews with anything like a pure line except the Samaritans.

If we say that they are different from an Arab because of what happened between Abraham and Sarah, then isn't that "religion", since Abraham and Sarah are only known about through the Hebrew Bible--thus "religion".  If that is "religion", then aren't they a "religious group."

If they are a "religious group", then isn't that in itself authenticating the Bible, itself?

Didn't follow this bit at all, except to say that the Koran says the same as the bible on this, so if it "authenticates" the bible, why doesn't it "authenticate" the Koran.

[aw]

So 99% of people who call themselves Jews are not? Idiot.

aw: I'll forgive you because you are new, but if you are going to post insults at least have a scripture or two in mind. The bible defines who are  true "JEWS" and if they are not, they have merely a natural posterity which accounts for nothing.

As a believer in Christ, I can come closer to knowing where the 10 LOST tribes are than 99% of the Jews I know. I know quite a few and love them dearly but they are not going to make it unless they turn to Messiah.

Again, Paul was an example of the REMNANT and the EARLY church was mostly Jewish, but the reverse is true today. Tyhe remnant is growing again however and they alone are the TRUE Jews of today.

aw

[ollie]

TRUE Jews are the ones who accept Jesus as Saviour and Lord. In order to properly understand it, we would, of necessity, have to enter into a discussion of REMNANT theology.



aw

So 99% of people who call themselves Jews are not? Idiot.

God's ways are not man's ways and man's ways are not God's ways.

Man can call himself anything he wants. That does not necessarily make them that in accordance with God's inspired word.

[aw]

"Give no offense; neither to the Jew, nor Gentile, nor Church of God." (1 Cor 10:32)

The 3-fold division is always present. There are Jews who have a national posterity and related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Today, it is next to impossible to know who all of them are- there are 10 tribes that are still lost.

Not all who are Israel are Israel- only those who have been born again are true or spiritual Israel with the church being comprised of both Jews and Gentiles.

aw

[Symphony]

Well, I appreciate the figurative answers, but ebia is closest to what I was looking for---perhaps from just a literal point.


I didn't know there were definite genetic traits---you mean, as even separate from their half-brethren, the Arabs?  Let's see, Hagar was Egyptian, which isn't necessarily Semitic at all--actually, Egyptian would imply a Hammitic lineage, therefore Isaac's half-brother, by Hagar, Ishmael, is actually half-Semitic,(by Abraham), and half-Hammitic(by Hagar).
So most likely the Jews then must have their own distinctive genetic traits.


Okay, another good point, ebia, but I'm not sure I said it didn't authenticate the Koran.  Of course, I doubt I'm going to be authenticating the Koran--at least to where it asks me to deny Jesus' divinity, or where Mohammed is taken up into the clouds....or that I'm suppose to fall down and become enamored at his marriage to an 11-year-old?  Okay, so they borrowed a few bars from Abraham.  ANd Abraham DID have a son named IShmael.  And it was predicted there would be enmity between the two?  But twice there in Genesis God does say he will bless the Ismaelites.

But there's always been enmity between half-siblings--basically over who gets included in the will, and the senority thing.  That's why polygamy is such a  minefield?

But ultimately here I'm just wondering how should a pagan world regard "the Jew"--that is, on what exactly do they base their anti-Semitism--that they're a race, a religion, or ethnicity.

That they have genetic traits would imply that Jews are then a race.

[ebia]

So most likely the Jews then must have their own distinctive genetic traits.

I'm not a geneticist, but thats my understanding, yes.  Of course, there are no racially pure jews (the Samaritans are just about the only group with any genetic evidence of jewish purity) and I doubt there are any racially pure arabs either.

Okay, another good point, ebia, but I'm not sure I said it didn't authenticate the Koran.  Of course, I doubt I'm going to be authenticating the Koran--at least to where it asks me to deny Jesus' divinity, or where Mohammed is taken up into the clouds....or that I'm suppose to fall down and become enamored at his marriage to an 11-year-old?  Okay, so they borrowed a few bars from Abraham.  ANd Abraham DID have a son named IShmael.  And it was predicted there would be enmity between the two?  But twice there in Genesis God does say he will bless the Ismaelites.

I still don't understand where you are going with this bit.  

But ultimately here I'm just wondering how should a pagan world regard "the Jew"--that is, on what exactly do they base their anti-Semitism--that they're a race, a religion, or ethnicity.

Prejudice doesn't need firm or well defined base, in my experience.

That they have genetic traits would imply that Jews are then a race.

Yep, but how many who call themselves Jews are genetically very jewish is another matter.  Many have a lot more other genes than jewish ones, having had non-jews marry into their families over the years.  's a touchy subject amongst some of the more conservative groups in Israel I believe.

[Joan]

So 99% of people who call themselves Jews are not? Idiot.

aw: I'll forgive you because you are new, but if you are going to post insults at least have a scripture or two in mind. The bible defines who are  true "JEWS" and if they are not, they have merely a natural posterity which accounts for nothing.

As a believer in Christ, I can come closer to knowing where the 10 LOST tribes are than 99% of the Jews I know. I know quite a few and love them dearly but they are not going to make it unless they turn to Messiah.

Again, Paul was an example of the REMNANT and the EARLY church was mostly Jewish, but the reverse is true today. Tyhe remnant is growing again however and they alone are the TRUE Jews of today.

aw

Dude I don't think the people who call themsevles Jews really care whether  you or anyone else think they are or not. They are "the true Jews" because they practice JUDAISM.

[nChrist]

This is a fascinating but difficult topic. To understand it, I think we must forget about what man thinks and concentrate on what God thinks and what is taught in HIS WORD.

Before their rejection of Jesus, the Jews were God's chosen people (HIS own - Israel). Almighty God made covenants with his own, Israel, and God will honor and fulfill those covenants he made, regardless of their rejection of Jesus.

After Israel's rejection of Jesus, things get much more complicated. Some in Israel accepted Jesus and are New Covenant Christians. The Gentiles who accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour are also New Covenant Christians. In Biblical terms, it is correct for a Christian to say they are a chosen people and a Jew, but man will not understand or accept this.

This would make a great Bible Study. Almighty God will certainly fulfill HIS promises to Israel and HIS promises to HIS children of the New Covenant. Petro has already said it, God's children are Jews. In the eyes of men, minus the Biblical teaching, Jews are unbelievers, a race and ethnic origin that can be traced back to the Israel of old. Please, don't anyone get angry about this. It would be a difficult Bible study and impossible for men to understand without the Holy Bible.

Love In Christ,
Tom