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David_james
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« on: November 24, 2008, 09:42:28 AM »

I think it can be but can't find anything concrete that it is.
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2008, 10:04:43 AM »

Yes, prayer is a part of worship. Having a right relationship with God is a part of worship and prayer is a part of having a right relationship with Him. It all ties in together. If we look at the Greek word for pray we find that it is a word that is closely relative to the word for worship.

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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2008, 10:30:01 AM »

thank you but some how I don't think that will convince someone that when they pray to Mary or a dead relative, that they are worshiping them
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2008, 10:45:05 AM »

Probably not, in such situations they ignore the rest of scripture that which tells us that those things are wrong. When praying to others in this manner they are in fact attempting to elevate those individuals to the level of God. Only God has the power to answer prayers and only Jesus Christ is the mediator between man and God.

1Ti 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Deu 18:10  There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11  Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.


(1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14) also tells us that we are not to communicate with the dead.


Consider the characteristics of God. God is omnipresent—everywhere at once—and is capable of hearing every prayer in the world (Psalm 139:7-12). A human being, on the other hand, does not possess this attribute. Also, God is the only one with the power to answer prayer. In this regard, God is omnipotent—all powerful (Revelation 19:6). Certainly this is an attribute a human being—dead or alive—does not possess. Finally, God is omniscient—He knows everything (Psalm 147:4-5). Even before we pray God knows our genuine needs, and knows them better then we do. Not only does He know my needs, but He answers my prayers according to His perfect will.

So in relation to the attributes of God, in order for a dead person to receive prayers the dead individual has to hear the prayer, possess the power to answer it, and know how to answer it in a way that is best for the individual praying. Only God hears and answers prayer because of His perfect essence.

No where in scripture does it tell us that we can pray to Mary or any other dead person. Jesus does however tell us how to pray and to whom we should pray in Mat 6

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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2008, 10:55:42 AM »

In this case, it isn't that they are elevating the dead, they think praying is just basic communicating.
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2008, 11:07:09 AM »

Even then as I said in my above post they don't have the abilities of God to hear or answer.

In Deu 18:11 the words their of "a consulter with familiar spirits" is speaking of those that speak to anyone dead including Mary. This is also the case of a "necromancer" spoken of in 1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14

In order for Mary to hear the prayers of all that attempt to pray to her she would have to be at the very least  omnipresent. We know that only God has this characteristic. So in that aspect they are indeed attempting to elevate that person to the stature of God.

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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2008, 11:38:50 AM »

GOOD MORNING BROTHER DAVID AND ALL!

First, I agree 100% with what Pastor Roger has said. I also firmly believe that prayer is part of our Worship of GOD. Prayer is most often times used to THANK GOD and praise HIM. The biggest THANKS is always the GIFT OF HIS SON ON THE CROSS for our sins.

I think that one of the best common sense ways of looking at this is that Christians don't pray to dead things or objects. Our LORD and SAVIOUR is ALIVE and is VERY GOD! Bluntly, prayers to the dead and objects is most commonly associated with the occult and/or devil worship. Prayer by its very nature is one of the most reverent things that Christians do, and it is worship. Brother, I know that many people are confused with this, but I really don't understand why. If we assumed that prayer isn't worship, these folks would still be trying to communicate with the dead. IF there is an answer, it would be from a demon - not GOD. Only some pretty sick folks would want to communicate with demons, and it certainly wouldn't be for good.

GOD'S WORD clearly tells us there are forces of LIGHT and forces of darkness that have been at war for thousands of years. As Christians, we should believe the BIBLE and know that there are evil spirits and powers of darkness. This is nothing to be taken lightly and certainly isn't any kind of joke. GOD is supernatural, and so is the devil. The ONLY POWER OF LIGHT we can connect to with our prayers is VERY GOD - AND NO OTHER! IF THERE IS ANY OTHER CONNECTION - IT WOULD BE WITH THE POWERS OF DARKNESS! Brother, this is just one reason why Christians make it obvious WHO they are praying to. On the exact opposite of the coin, devil worshipers also make it obvious who they are praying to. Prayer is deadly serious and should never be taken lightly. GOD does hear us when we pray, and HE loves to hear our prayers. If you think about this, IT'S AWESOME! We can pray anytime we want to, and this amounts to a direct audience with our CREATOR! Christians should know that prayer must be done in the most reverent ways because we are talking with GOD HIMSELF.

Brother David, the above and many more reasons are why Christians refuse to play certain games or use services that are typically associated with the devil. The devil is quite real, but ALMIGHTY GOD has infinitely more POWER and is definitely the MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE! The question always come up:  "Why doesn't GOD destroy the devil and all evil? HE will at HIS Appointed time. GOD'S Ways are beyond human comprehension, but GOD has told us what HE wants us to know in HIS WORD.


Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 7:18-19 NASB  For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2008, 12:13:35 PM »

Thank you Brothers.

I, myself, fail to pray often but when I do pray, it feels empty
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2008, 12:39:33 PM »

A lot of prayer is in the attitude. If it is done in a feeling of duty, or of talking to yourself, the feeling of unanswered prayers, the expectation of receiving an immediate answer or something along those lines then it can have a feeling of emptiness. Prayer should be done from the heart, with all faith that God is going to answer those prayers in His time and in a manner in which He knows is best for us, not expecting that it will necessarily be according to our own desires but His will for us. Jesus is a friend to us as well as our Father. We should talk with Him accordingly having all trust and faith in Him.

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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2008, 12:56:02 PM »

It is done in feeling of duty. I know my prayers are answered when real.
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2008, 12:58:50 PM »

Thank you Brothers.

I, myself, fail to pray often but when I do pray, it feels empty

Hello Brother David,

Again, I agree 100% with what Pastor Roger told you. We are living in hard times that are going to get much harder, so many people are depressed - including many Christians. There are even many Christians who understand and believe Bible Prophecy feeling down and beaten. In reality, nothing could be further from the TRUTH. We simply must keep KNOWING that this short life is NOT all there is, AND THIS WORLD ISN'T OUR HOME! I know this is hard to do, but we have the Promises of GOD to think about and dwell on. If I was beaten to death today by a bunch of GOD haters, I would be absent from the body and present with the LORD! Don't feel sorry for me if you hear that GOD took me home. I just want to yield and do HIS WILL until the last moment. It will be a time of rejoicing when we go home.

Brother David, I know there isn't many pleasant things in the news or in this world, but we aren't of this world. It isn't easy for even Christians to keep things in proper perspective these days, but GOD will help us if we want HIM to. Some would ask what we have to be happy about, so I think that it's time for one of my favorite posts again. Spend some quality time in studying some of the most beautiful portions of Scripture in the Bible that tell us what we have to be happy about.

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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2008, 01:00:23 PM »

One Hundred Things That Are Free To Us By CHRIST! - Part 1 of 5

1.  ACCEPTED ---------------- EPHESIANS 1:6  To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

2.  ALIVE WITH CHRIST -------- COLOSSIANS 2:13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

3.  ASCENDED --------------- EPHESIANS 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

4.  ADOPTED ----------------- GALATIANS 4:5  To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

5.  AMBASSADORS ---------------- 2 CORINTHIANS 5:20  Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

6.  ACCESS -------------- EPHESIANS 2:18  For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. & ROMANS 5:2  By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

7.  ALL THINGS --------------- I TIMOTHY 6:17  Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

8.  ANOINTED US --------------- 2 CORINTHIANS 1:21  Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

9.  APPREHENDED ---------------- PHILIPPIANS 3:12  Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

10.  APPOINTED------------------1 THESSALONIANS 3:3  That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.

11.  ATONEMENT --------------ROMANS 5:11  And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12.  AUTHORITY ----------------- TITUS 2:15  These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

13.  ASSURANCE ---------------- 1 THESSALONIANS 1:5  For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

14.  ABUNDANCE OF GRACE --------- ROMANS 5:17  For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

15.  BAPTIZED ---------------- CORINTHIANS 12:13  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

16.  BLESSED ------------------- EPHESIANS 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

17.  BURIED ------------------- COLOSSIANS 2:12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead

18.  BELOVED -------------------- ROMANS 1:7  To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

19.  BUILDED TOGETHER ------------ EPHESIANS 2:22  In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

20.  CALLED ----------------- ROMANS 8:30  Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2008, 01:01:34 PM »

One Hundred Things That Are Free To Us By CHRIST! - Part 2 of 5

21.  CHOSEN ---------------- EPHESIANS 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

22.  CIRCUMCISION -------------- COLOSSIANS 2:11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

23.  COMPLETE ----------------- COLOSSIANS 2:10  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

24.  CONFORMED -------------- ROMANS 8:29  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

25.  CRUCIFIED ------------------ GALATIANS 2:20  I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

26.  COVERED ------------------- ROMANS 4:7  Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

27.  CONFIRMED ---------------------- 1 CORINTHIANS 1:7-8  So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:  8  Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

28.  CLEANSED ------------------- EPHESIANS 5:26  That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

29.  CREATED ------------------------- EPHESIANS 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

30.  CONQUERORS ----------------- ROMANS 8:37  Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

31.  CROWNED ------------------- 2 TIMOTHY 4:8  Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

32.  DAUGHTERS ----------------- 2 CORINTHIANS 6:18  And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

33.  DECLARED --------------------- 2 CORINTHIANS 3:3  Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

34.  DELIVERED ---------------- 2 CORINTHIANS 1: 10  2 Corinthians 1:10  Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

35.  ELECT OF GOD ---------------- COLOSSIANS 3:12  Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering &  TITUS 1:1  Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

36.  ENRICHED ----------------- 1 CORINTHIANS 1: 5  That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;

37.  ESTEEMED ------------ PHILIPPIANS 2:5  Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

38.  ETERNAL ---------------- TITUS 1:2  In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

39.  FAMILY ------------------- EPHESIANS 3:14-15  For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,  15  Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

40.  FELLOWHEIRS ------------- EPHESIANS 3:6  That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2008, 01:05:00 PM »

One Hundred Things That Are Free To Us By CHRIST! - Part 3 of 5

41.  FELLOWCITIZENS ----------- EPHESIANS 2:19  Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

42.  FELLOWLABOURERS ------------ PHILIPPIANS 4:3  And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

43.  FELLOWSERVANT --------------- COLOSSIANS 4:7  All my state shall Tychicus declare unto you, who is a beloved brother, and a faithful minister and fellowservant in the Lord:

44.  FELLOWSOLDIERS ---------------- PHILIPPIANS 2:25  Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.

45.  FORGIVEN ------------------ COLOSSIANS 2:13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

46.  FREEMAN ------------------ 1 CORINTHIANS 7:22  For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.

47.  FURNISHED ----------------- 2 TIMOTHY 3:17  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

48.  GLORIFIED --------------- ROMANS 8:30  Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

49.  HABITATION --------------- EPHESIANS 2:22  In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

50.  HEIRS ---------------------- ROMANS 8:17  And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

51.  HOLY ------------------- COLOSSIANS 3:12  Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

52.  HUSBANDRY --------------- 1 CORINTHIANS 3:9  For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

53.  IN CHRIST ---------------- ROMANS 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

54.  INHERITANCE -------------- EPHESIANS 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

55.  INSTRUCTED ----------------- PHILIPPIANS  4:12  I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

56.  INTERCESSION --------------- ROMANS  8:26  Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.  ROMANS 8:34  Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

57.  FITLY JOINED TOGETHER -------------- EPHESIANS 4:16  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

58.  JUSTIFIED ------------ ROMANS 3:24

59.  KNOWN OF GOD ------------ GALATIANS 4:9  But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

60.  LOVED ------------ EPHESIANS 2:4  But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2008, 01:06:49 PM »

One Hundred Things That Are Free To Us By CHRIST! - Part 4 of 5

61.  MADE MEET------------- COLOSSIANS 1:12  Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

62.  MEMBERS --------------- EPHESIANS 4:25  Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.  EPHESIANS 5:30  For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

63.  MESSENGERS -------------- 2 CORINTHIANS 8:23  Whether any do enquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be enquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, and the glory of Christ.

64.  MIGHTY ----------- 2 CORINTHIANS 10:4  (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)  COLOSSIANS 1:29  Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

65.  MINISTERS ------------- 2 CORINTHIANS 3:6  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.  2 CORINTHIANS 6:4  But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,

66.  NEW CREATURES ------------- 2 CORINTHIANS 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

67.  PARTAKERS ----------- EPHESIANS 3:6  That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:  1 TIMOTHY 6:2  And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.

68.  PEACE --------- ROMANS 5:1  Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

69.  PLANTED TOGETHER --------- ROMANS 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

70.  POWER WORKING IN US -------------- EPHESIANS 1:19  And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

71.  PREDESTINATED --------- EPHESIANS 1:5  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,  &  EPHESIANS 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

72.  PREPARED UNTO GLORY ------------- ROMANS 9:23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

73.  PRESERVED ------------ 2 TIMOTHY 4:18  And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

74.  PURCHASED POSSESSION ------------ EPHESIANS 1:14  Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

75.  "QUICKENED -------------- EPHESIANS 2:5  Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;

76.  "RAISED --------------- EPHESIANS 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

77.  RECONCILED ----------- ROMANS 5:10  For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

78.  REDEEMED ------------ GALATIANS 3:13  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

79.  REGENERATION ------------ TITUS 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

80.  RENEWED ------------ 2 CORINTHIANS 4:16  For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
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