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Author Topic: Signs of the time in an average news hour.  (Read 1394 times)
2nd Timothy
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« on: January 05, 2004, 07:24:32 PM »

I have never been an alarmist, or doomsayer.  But as of late, there are numerous happenings in the world that are hard for even unbelievers to not take notice.  Consider some of the following.

Signs in the heavens.  Anyone remember the recent rash of solar flares we had late last year?  Not that that means a whole lot.

Earthquakes are seemingly in the news quite a bit as of late.  Not that we don't have them all the time, but there has certainly been a lot of rumbling going on in the last month or so.  We've even had a few just today on the moderate scale.  Not that this means a whole lot.

Israel is in the news everyday on world coverage.  Its always related to peace and unrest in that region.  Every other nation of significance is always following her about in an effort to encourage peace too.  Not that this means a whole lot.

Just today, Robert Mundell, a nobel-prize winning economist, often credited with paving the way to the European single currency, has called for a global currency.  Saying that its time to reconsider this option.  Also we are hearing alot about how the Euro is at an all time high against the US dollar.  Not that this means a whole lot.

Terrorism is another item that will be seen on any news hour.  Governments of the world are always concerned with this problem and attempting to thwart it.  Not that this means a whole lot.

Wars and rumors of wars.  Iraq, North Korea, China and Taiwan, Afganistan, India and Pakistan, war on terrorism, holy jihad.  Sound familiar?  Not that this means a whole lot.

Pestilences and disasters.  Sars virus, mad cow disease, flu epidemics, Aids virus, eathquakes, meteors striking the earth (just happened in Iran although no damage was reported.)  Not that this means a whole lot.

Wickedness of man, love of pleasure more than God, Murders, drugs, sex.  Not this means a whole lot.

Taken alone, any one of these signs is easy to overlook.  However, looking at all of them, and at the rate they are happening in our time is not.   Most unbelievers and sadly many Christians seem oblivious to what is happening in the world around them.  No doubt, a few will say that Jesus appearing could be many years away (My Lord delayeth his coming).  However, if you look at times and events at the end of the 19th century and compare them to the end of the 20th century, what an increase in signs we see today.  How much longer before he returns?  Jesus said, when you see these things begin to come to pass, know that the time is short.

We seem to be rapidly aproaching the day.  Prophecies of Daniel and Revelation are becoming shadows on the horizon ever so clearly.  All the signs that Jesus gave us are happening.  He said it would be like the birth pains of a women.  Contractions start, and get closer and closer together, with ever increasing intensity.  I challenge anyone to sit and watch world news tonight and view it in light of what we know about what Jesus said would be signs of his soon return.  Most unbelievers don't give it a second thought.  Much like Noahs day.  But we who know him should not.   The signs are almost neon like for us.

Let us be alert and eager for his return, and ever working to lead others to him before it is too late.

Keep Looking up!

Maranatha!
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Tim

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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2004, 07:32:02 PM »

Virtually all of these are going on virtually all of the time.  With a few tweaks to the details you could have made the same post 5 years ago, or 10, or 50, or 500.
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2nd Timothy
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2004, 07:51:08 PM »

Yeah,

a tweak to Israel becoming a nation,

a tweak to the whole world being able to see the 2 wittnesses lying on the street dead (TV)

a tweak to technology being avaible to mark or implant individulas, enabling them to make purchases, and be tracked by a world wide network.

a tweak to an age when many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.  Buying a ticket to fly anywhere in the world within a few hours, and knowledge and technology increasing on an unpresidented scale.

a tweak to the world being consumed with Israel's peace and security.

a tweak to all the leaders speaking of globalization.


Just to name a few tweaks  Wink

Grace and Peace!
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Tim

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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2004, 08:03:16 PM »

Yeah,

a tweak to Israel becoming a nation,
People have been talking about that for around a hundred years at least.

Quote
a tweak to the whole world being able to see the 2 wittnesses lying on the street dead (TV)
That's been possible since the invention of the printing press.

Quote
a tweak to technology being avaible to mark or implant individulas, enabling them to make purchases, and be tracked by a world wide network.
You can find equivalents.  I dare say people said the same when standardised passports were introduced, or when registers of births, deaths & marriages started to be centralised at Somerset House instead of just being kept in the parish church.

Quote
a tweak to an age when many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.  Buying a ticket to fly anywhere in the world within a few hours, and knowledge and technology increasing on an unpresidented scale.
Trains revolutionised travel a couple of hundred years ago.

Quote
a tweak to the world being consumed with Israel's peace and security.
The world has been concerned with this since the setting up of a state of Israel was first mooted around ah hundred years ago.

Quote
a tweak to all the leaders speaking of globalization.
Like globalization is a new phenomenon - think about the Roman Empire, or the British Empire.


Quote
Just to name a few tweaks  Wink
Most people who have ever lived (or ever will live) have thought their time was special.   Just a modicum of critical thinking is required here.
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2004, 08:59:06 PM »

Quote
Yeah,

a tweak to Israel becoming a nation,
 
 
People have been talking about that for around a hundred years at least.

Fact:
*May, 1948: State of Israel was declared.
*The US and the Soviet Union were the first two nations to recognize it.
*The Arab League immediately declared war on it.

56 years to be exact.

Quote
a tweak to the whole world being able to see the 2 wittnesses lying on the street dead (TV)
 
That's been possible since the invention of the printing press.

Rev 11:9  And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

The slowness of newspapers cannot be overstated here.  While papers could have made this possible, the likelyhood of Satillite TV seems to fit with better accuracy.

Quote
a tweak to technology being avaible to mark or implant individulas, enabling them to make purchases, and be tracked by a world wide network.
 
You can find equivalents.  I dare say people said the same when standardised passports were introduced, or when registers of births, deaths & marriages started to be centralised at Somerset House instead of just being kept in the parish church.

Not on the level we have today.  The ease of a global network cannot be overstated again.  Wireless transactions with a micro-chip under the skin.  A world netword is in place that would enable one man for the first time to be able to track individuals world wide.  Try as you may to find equivalents of past, they don't come close.

Quote
a tweak to an age when many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.  Buying a ticket to fly anywhere in the world within a few hours, and knowledge and technology increasing on an unpresidented scale.
 
Trains revolutionised travel a couple of hundred years ago.

The introduction of the Boeing 707 in 1955 made inter-continental travel a reality (albeit for those in the upper income bracket). In 1970, the arrival of the Boeing 747 truly opened international travel to the masses. Aviation has come a long way from the humble flight of the Orville brothers.

While trains no doubt had their place in history as revolutionsing travel, doesn't even come close to powered flight.  Consider how long men have been walking and riding horses.  Then consider how quickly this changed when the train, car and planes came along.  The last hundred years alone cannot be overstated in how technology has exponentially increased.

Quote
a tweak to the world being consumed with Israel's peace and security.
 
The world has been concerned with this since the setting up of a state of Israel was first mooted around ah hundred years ago.

56 years ago.  And every news broadcast that we view, it is spoken of.   No matter what happens in the world, even the war in Iraq...news always consisntantly turns all eyes towards Israel faithfully.

Quote
a tweak to all the leaders speaking of globalization.
 
Like globalization is a new phenomenon - think about the Roman Empire, or the British Empire.

I doubt the Roman empire was too concerned about America's in their day.   Roll Eyes

Quote
Just to name a few tweaks  
 
Most people who have ever lived (or ever will live) have thought their time was special.  Just a modicum of critical thinking is required here.

Here I must agree.  But considering how far we have come in just the last 100 years, my critical thinking cannot overlook the obvious.   Bible prophecy is deeper than it is wide.  To misjudge the signs is to say...

2Pe 3:3  Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4  And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5  For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

The signs of his coming are glaring.  Being willingly ignorant of them is warned about in scripture.

Maranatha!
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Tim

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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2004, 09:21:26 PM »

Quote
Yeah,

a tweak to Israel becoming a nation,
 
 
People have been talking about that for around a hundred years at least.

Fact:
*May, 1948: State of Israel was declared.
*The US and the Soviet Union were the first two nations to recognize it.
*The Arab League immediately declared war on it.

56 years to be exact.
The process started way before 1948.

Quote
Quote
a tweak to the whole world being able to see the 2 wittnesses lying on the street dead (TV)
 
That's been possible since the invention of the printing press.

Rev 11:9  And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

The slowness of newspapers cannot be overstated here.  While papers could have made this possible, the likelyhood of Satillite TV seems to fit with better accuracy.
And I dare say whatever comes along in another 20 years time will seem to fit better than that.

Quote
Quote
a tweak to technology being avaible to mark or implant individulas, enabling them to make purchases, and be tracked by a world wide network.
 
You can find equivalents.  I dare say people said the same when standardised passports were introduced, or when registers of births, deaths & marriages started to be centralised at Somerset House instead of just being kept in the parish church.

Not on the level we have today.  The ease of a global network cannot be overstated again.  Wireless transactions with a micro-chip under the skin.  A world netword is in place that would enable one man for the first time to be able to track individuals world wide.  Try as you may to find equivalents of past, they don't come close.
You miss the point completely.  The point is, that the claims you are making could have been made at any point in the past, and (at the time) would have appeared equally convincing.  In another 100 years time, your indicators will look equally pathetic against whatever is happening then.


Quote
a tweak to an age when many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.  Buying a ticket to fly anywhere in the world within a few hours, and knowledge and technology increasing on an unpresidented scale.
 
Trains revolutionised travel a couple of hundred years ago.

Quote
The introduction of the Boeing 707 in 1955 made inter-continental travel a reality (albeit for those in the upper income bracket). In 1970, the arrival of the Boeing 747 truly opened international travel to the masses. Aviation has come a long way from the humble flight of the Orville brothers.

While trains no doubt had their place in history as revolutionsing travel, doesn't even come close to powered flight.  Consider how long men have been walking and riding horses.  Then consider how quickly this changed when the train, car and planes came along.  The last hundred years alone cannot be overstated in how technology has exponentially increased.
Rubbish.  Canals and railways made possible the industrial revolution - they made at least as big a change to the world as electronic communications have, it just took a bit longer.

Quote
Quote
a tweak to the world being consumed with Israel's peace and security.
 
The world has been concerned with this since the setting up of a state of Israel was first mooted around ah hundred years ago.

56 years ago.  And every news broadcast that we view, it is spoken of.   No matter what happens in the world, even the war in Iraq...news always consisntantly turns all eyes towards Israel faithfully.
1.  Thats a very american perspective - the rest of the world doesn't have America's obsession with Israel.  Israel is only the focus because people like you see it as the issue.  To use it as proof is, therefore, a circular argument.
2.  Like I said before - the nationhood of israel was an issue way before 1948.


Quote
a tweak to all the leaders speaking of globalization.
 
Quote
Like globalization is a new phenomenon - think about the Roman Empire, or the British Empire.

I doubt the Roman empire was too concerned about America's in their day.   Roll Eyes
And??   The Roman empire was "global" in terms relevent then, and the British empire really was global.

Note here, we've only talked about the MOST plausable of your "signs".  The rest (earthquakes, wars, etc) really have been going on without cesation throughout history.

Quote
Here I must agree.  But considering how far we have come in just the last 100 years, my critical thinking cannot overlook the obvious.   Bible prophecy is deeper than it is wide.  To misjudge the signs is to say...

2Pe 3:3  Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4  And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5  For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
The signs of his coming are glaring.  Being willingly ignorant of them is warned about in scripture.

People have been making identical predictions since the 1st century AD, based on exactly the same information.  So far, the scoffers have been proved right. Smiley


Quote
Maranatha!
The only thing you've said that I can agree with.
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2004, 11:44:51 PM »

Virtually all of these are going on virtually all of the time.  With a few tweaks to the details you could have made the same post 5 years ago, or 10, or 50, or 500.

I was going to say that but you beat me to it! :-( This is how things have been for ages. 2nd Timothy, you have what most would call “circumstantial evidence.”
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2004, 12:43:29 AM »

For me, I am excited to see events proclaiming the coming of the Lord.  I am baffled as to why some would not be excited at the possibility of his return, and at every sign he spoke of to indicate it.   My thinking is, if it has been this way for ages, that is even more reason to expect a soon return.  Not more reason to assume it will take longer.   Huh

Quote
People have been making identical predictions since the 1st century AD, based on exactly the same information.  So far, the scoffers have been proved right.

 Cry  I wasn't making a prediction, just an observation.   While I wont argue the return could be hundreds of years away, your lack of enthusiasm for Jesus return and doubt confounds me coming from a believer.   Don't worry though, he will take you too, even if he has to do it with you kicking and screaming all the way up!   Cheesy

Mat 24:33  So you, likewise, when you see all these things, shall know that it is near, at the doors.
Mat 24:34  Truly I say to you, This generation shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled.
Mat 24:35  The heaven and the earth shall pass away, but My Words shall not pass away.

Truth is in the word.  I will stick with the word, not the scoffers of 1 AD or 2004 AD.  I hope he is as excited to see me as I will be to see him!

Maranatha!
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2004, 01:33:19 AM »

For me, I am excited to see events proclaiming the coming of the Lord.  I am baffled as to why some would not be excited at the possibility of his return,
I look forward to His return, I just don't see any indication that it's likely to happen in my lifetime.

Quote
and at every sign he spoke of to indicate it.   My thinking is, if it has been this way for ages, that is even more reason to expect a soon return.  Not more reason to assume it will take longer.   Huh
Your logic baffles me here.

Quote
Quote
People have been making identical predictions since the 1st century AD, based on exactly the same information.  So far, the scoffers have been proved right.

 Cry  I wasn't making a prediction, just an observation.   While I wont argue the return could be hundreds of years away, your lack of enthusiasm for Jesus return and doubt confounds me coming from a believer.   Don't worry though, he will take you too, even if he has to do it with you kicking and screaming all the way up!   Cheesy

Mat 24:33  So you, likewise, when you see all these things, shall know that it is near, at the doors.
Mat 24:34  Truly I say to you, This generation shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled.
Mat 24:35  The heaven and the earth shall pass away, but My Words shall not pass away.

The fact is, it's a bit late for Matt 24:34 to be literally true, so this could mean just about anything.


Quote
Truth is in the word.  I will stick with the word, not the scoffers of 1 AD or 2004 AD.  I hope he is as excited to see me as I will be to see him!
I'm sure he will be.  But I don't think it's healthy to be obsessed with waiting for His return.  Yes, we're supposed to be ready, and there's nothing wrong with praying for it to be ASAP.  But there's stuff we're supposed to be getting on with in the mean time.  In fact, if we aren't getting on with trying to sort the world out for ourselves, we simply aren't ready.

It's one of the big (and reasonable, in the light of this sort of post) accusations that Muslims in, for example, Pakistan throw at Christians: that Christian's don't bother to do what's right now, because God is going to come back any minute and sort it out for them. (us)  In the mean time Christians continue to ruin the creation that we are all supposed to be stewards of, and support the inequality and injustice in world.   The fact that this sort of obsession is mostly restricted to a very small proportion of Christians is neither here nor there, since American Christianity on the TV, and the behaviour of supposidly Christian countries and people, is what they see.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2004, 01:42:23 AM by ebia » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2004, 02:00:54 AM »

Quote
The fact is, it's a bit late for Matt 24:34 to be literally true, so this could mean just about anything.



Sorry, not drinking that koolaid   Smiley

Grace and Peace!
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2004, 08:52:24 PM »

If you look at it times are getting worse and worse. So I say is it getting close for Jesus to return? I with it is closer.  I know that the world is becomeing rotten, but how bad does it have to be, before Jesus comes back? No one knows accept the Father.  Yes there is signs, but is that the begining of the end or are we getting close to the end of the end. If that makes sense.  Anyway I think that we can bicker about it until we are blue in the face, but where does that get us.
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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2004, 09:03:56 PM »

I agree Kris.

It was not my intention to get into a debate about signs of the times.  If we focus on Christ and trust that God has it all under control the rest will take care of itself.

It is not my desire to debate, I just get excited when I see signs that are evident in my lifetime, whether or not they have been around years or not.  Can't help it!

Sorry if any of my comments have been offensive to anyone.  I guess I will just have to hold it in.

Grace and Peace!
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