JEWISH!!

[Tibby]

That is what I'm trying to find out, she seems to imply that she does believe in IC.

Monophycitism, I think is the name. Seriously, though, I doubt Heidi dabbles in Ancient Heresy.

[Petro]

Because He is not a product (offsrping) of Jewish blood. His conception was immaculate. He received no DNA from His Jewish lineage. He grew up among the Jews and was carried in the womb of  a Jewish woman. To the world He was considered a Jew, especially to the ones who don't believe He was immaculately conceived. "There is no place for the son of man to lay His head." He was not of this world.

heidi,

It is clear to me you do not understand who or what this Catholic doctrine refers to.

But thats OK, most Christians, sadly and actually are ignorant of what this church teaches, but if they familiarized themselves with scripture they would see, the differnces between what the bible teaches and what man teaches for doctrines of God.

The troubling point you make to me, is wher you said;

Because He is not a product (offsrping) of Jewish blood

This is clearly error, since Jesus is fully man because He was born of a woman, and fully God because His Father is the Holy Spirit, this is why the scripture says that, "that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." (Lk 1:35)

Jesus is refered to as Son of Man when reffering to His human attribute, and Son of God when refering to His diety and both are what make Him, the perfect intermediary between Man and God.

No Bible believing Christian should even concern themselves with the imaculate conception, it is not even mentioned in the bible.

Blessings,  

Petro

 

[Heidi]

So, Tibby and Ebia, do you believe that Mary and Joseph conceived Christ? If so, where does it say that in the bible?

[Corpus]

Heidi,

Petro's amusing musings aside, I think you might be confusing incarnation with immaculate conception.

[Heidi]

Maybe. I just know that the term "immaculate comception" was brought up when I said that Christ was conceived by God so I'm assuming that's what it refers to. I know that the bible does say that the angel, Gabriel, told Mary she was "with child" and I do definitely believe that Christ was conceived by God, not of two humans.

[Tibby]

Yeah, easy things to confuse. Being up on the lingo isn’t a prerequisite for being a Christian.

[Heidi]

Then what does the term "immaculate conception" mean?

[Tibby]

It means Mary is immune to original sin

[Heidi]

By that, do you mean she was sinless or that she was a virgin?

[Tibby]

Sinnless from the time she was formed in the womb.

She was a virgin when she had Christ, that is not up for debate.

[Petro]

Then what does the term "immaculate conception" mean?

heidi,


The dogma of immaculate conception refers, to Mary not Jesus, and it does not mean hers was a virgin birth.

The docrine of the immaculate conception of the virgin Mary (the mother of Christ) was invented by Rome in 1854 by Pope Pius IX , proclaimed and defined this dogma, here is what he said:
"In the frist instance of her conception, by a singular privilige and grace granted by God, in view of the human race, the Virign Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin."  (Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, December 8, 1854)
Pius XI (Enclclical Lux veritatis, Christmas Day, 1931) decreed that every good Catholic must believe in the Virign Mary as a mediator and intercessor with God.  At the same time the Pope appealed to Protestants to join in worshipping Mary)


In November 1,  1950 AD, Pope Pius XII proclaimed a new dogma of the Assumption of Mary.
This new dogma, teaches Mary was "assumed (taken up) body and soul" into hesaven, an article of faith, to be believed on pain of eternal damnation. (Roamn Catholic theologians differ  on the time and place of this event)

All this is foreign to scripture, and has no place in Christian worship, nor theology.

This teaching was an invention by this pope, and a teaching of men taught as though it be a doctrine of God.

Blessings,
Petro



corpuss,


Perhaps you can tell us about the incarnation............

Petro

[Heidi]

Oh...Duh, Heidi. I'd never heard that before. No, I do not believe Mary's birht was virginal. Thanks, Petro.

[Tibby]

No, I do not believe Mary's birht was virginal.

Sorry, that threw me for a loop. Please explain

[ebia]

Oh...Duh, Heidi. I'd never heard that before. No, I do not believe Mary's birht was virginal. Thanks, Petro.

I don't think you've quite got it.

It's not that Mary's birth was virginal.  Its that when Mary was concieved by her parents by perfectly normal means, God arranged that she would be uncontaiminated by original sin , so that she would be completely free of sin and thereby a suitable vessel for Christ.

I hope I got that right - its not a bit of Roman doctrine I subscribe to, so I may be off slightly, but thats the jist of it.

On the other point, I don't think anyone here is claiming that Christ's was concieved by Joseph and Mary, but rather by God and Mary  (... concieved by Holy Ghost of the virgin Mary...) and that Mary's role in that is as a full parent, not just a carrier of the embryo Christ.  Therefore Christ inherits Mary's jewishness.

[Heidi]

Sorry...I obviously meant Mary's birth was not conceived by God. Possibly a Freudian slip? Nor do i believe Mary was sinless.