JEWISH!!

[Petro]

So, whose sperm was it?

heidi,

You just presume God is able only to procreate within the bounds of the creation.

Your question is exactly the type of question which we need to avoid asking or even contending about because they lead to strife and are unprofitable and vain. (Titus 3:9)

Because it is just your opinion, that there was sperm., it is understood that the Holy Spirit is a Spirit, and therefore to imply He must be as a man, is not sound theology.

The inner workings of all this is a mystery to us, known only unto God, which unless revealed by God, we can only speculate on.

So there you have it, I trust you can see, how irrevelant it is to assert the Creator of everything has to conform to our notions, when producing His own sacrificial Lemb.



Blessings,



Petro

[Heidi]

But that's the point I was making, Petro. The very fact that Jesus was a product of God is such a unique and awesome miracle that his birht can't be compared to that of man! By the way, it is NOT my opinion that there was sperm involved. I simply asked what you thought about it. As a matter of fact, my question led me to agree with more  of what you were saying because it is very possible that it was Mary's egg that GOD fertilized which makes your statement about Jesus carrying Mary's DNA correct. I had never thought of it that way before.  So please, do not jump to conclusions about someone's motives in asking a question. It isn't a question that causes strife, it's jumping to flase conclusions that causes strife.

[Petro]

I didn't jump to any conclusions, your question was matter of fact, implying there was sprem involved.

But anyhow, since you put it the way you have now, I don't have a problem with your answer.

Yes His brtrh is unique, that is why He is reffered to as;

The Only Begotten Son of God

All the rest of Gods children are adopted...........

Blessings,  
Petro

[Heidi]

I was asking as a matter of curiosity because it is a fascinating concept and so unique! But i had previously assumed that the whole fertilized egg was an act of God but it must have been Mary's egg that God had touched. That is the only way she could have passed on Abraham's genes. Thanks, Petro.

[ebia]

Don't tell me we've actually got agreement on something.  

[ollie]

Acts 13:21.  And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.
 22.  And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
 23.  Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:25.  Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Acts 3:25.  Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Romans 1:3.  Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
 4.  And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

[Petro]

Acts 13:21.  And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.
 22.  And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
 23.  Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:25.  Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Acts 3:25.  Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Romans 1:3.  Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
 4.  And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Ollie,

I commend you, excellent verses,

That reminds me, that this same Jesus, will rebuild the fallen ruins of the house of David.

When God told David one of His sons would build Him a house, and that of His seed there would never lack a Son to sit on the throne, David assumed it would Solomon, but the curse on Jeconiah, ended that reign, and no one from Solomons lineage ever has nor will ascend the throne again, but Jesus who is a descendant thru avids Son Nathan, is the Son whom God spoke of.  He will sit on Davids throne forever in the coming Kingdom.

God Bless,

Petro

[eliyosef]

Actually Jesus was conceived by GOD into the womb of a Jewish woman so that it would fulfill the prophesy of His lineage. I take issue with the fact that He was Jewish.

The prophecy you are quoting in Isaiah 7:14 is a part of christian mistranslation of the hebrew word "Almah"  is the word for A young woman who is married or of marrying age. the hebrew word for Virgin is "Betulah" plus the sign in Isaiah was for King Ahaz and it was more than likely Isaiah's wife that was pregnant and if you read in Isaiah chapter 8 Immanuel is alive and well.

so no there is no virgin birth story in the Hebrew scriptures and the fact that jesus was born of a "virgin"  disproves him as the Jewish messiah

[Jabez]

So do you beleive Jesus is the Son of GOD?

[eliyosef]

So do you beleive Jesus is the Son of GOD?

By the very nature and composition of my post do you honestly think I do.
to answer your question there is little evidence beyond Christian doctrine that proves the guy existed. so the answer to your question is "NO".  Oh yeah and if you want to know know who the first-born son of G-d is check out Exodus 4:22

[ollie]

so no there is no virgin birth story in the Hebrew scriptures and the fact that jesus was born of a "virgin"  disproves him as the Jewish messiah

How does the information that the virgin birth of Jesus is not in the Hebrew scriptures and that Jesus was born of a virgin disprove Him as the Jewish messiah?

[Jabez]

So do you beleive Jesus is the Son of GOD?

By the very nature and composition of my post do you honestly think I do.
to answer your question there is little evidence beyond Christian doctrine that proves the guy existed. so the answer to your question is "NO".  Oh yeah and if you want to know know who the first-born son of G-d is check out Exodus 4:22

So you can not say "Jesus is the Son of GOD" or "Jesus is Lord"

read john 4:1-6

[ollie]

So do you beleive Jesus is the Son of GOD?

By the very nature and composition of my post do you honestly think I do.
to answer your question there is little evidence beyond Christian doctrine that proves the guy existed. so the answer to your question is "NO".  Oh yeah and if you want to know know who the first-born son of G-d is check out Exodus 4:22

The doctrine is not "Christian", but God's through His Son Jesus the Christ.

Jesus Christ is refered to in scripture as the firstborn of Mary.

Jesus Christ is not refered to as the firstborn son of God, except in Psalms, but as the only begotten son of God, conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of a virgin in the flesh.

 Psalm 89:27.  Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
 28.  My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

Jesus Christ is however the firstborn to resurrection from death to eternal life and firstborn in many other areas as mentioned in scripture.

All the faithful from the beginning of creation through to the end are sons of God.


Ollie

[eliyosef]

ok the virgin birth of jesus disproves him because 1. the idea of "virgin birth" is foreign to Jewish thought(i.e. greek mythology) the hebrew word "Almah" does not mean virgin it means "young woman" the Hebrew word "Betulah" means "Virgin" the latter(Almah) was used in Isaiah 7:14 and second of all the lineage of Jesus fail him because no messiah can go throught he cursed King Jeconiah (i.e. Jeremiah 22:28-30) where it says that no one of his seed will sit on the throne of David nor rule in Judah.  even so if you use the Line in luke there is one problem with that the line is not of legitimate messianic lineage it goes through David's son Nathan not Solomon. The line must go from David to Solomon and on down after Solomon it doesnt matter who it comes from it must be a descendant of Solomon, but in Jeconiah's case he cannot be an ancestor of the messiah because of His curse. The messiah must have a direct line to David in order to be the messiah and it must go through ones father because Jewish lineage is patrilineal (i.e. the book of Numbers chapter 1). So with the Virgin birth he has no line to David. His mother's line doesnt count because of the Torah prohibition..  With the "Virgin birth" no line to King David even if he did he is caught by the curse of Jeconiah.  all in all Jesus was a good candidate for Deuteronomy 13. but he was certainly not the messiah because he failed to mee the most basic criteria.
When it all boils down the Jewish messiah is a mortla man with earthly parent a direct line to King David who will bring to the earth an era of Peace and prosperity ( something that is greatly missing in this world)

[Heidi]

A lot of things are foreign to Jewish thought including God. Jesus fulfilled all of the prophesies in the Torah down to the casting of lots for His clothing. The rationale that Mary's lineage doesn't count is strectching it to its seams. Her ancestors were from the House of David whether the Jews want to admit it or not. To deny that I don't have ancestors because i'm a woman is delusional. The Jews ignore much reality in order to perpetuate their beliefs, including that fact that women don't have ancestors.