What is the right thing?

[itsmeagaingod]

First, let me say I live in a small town in Indiana.  Each morning when I am driving to work I see a middle age gentleman sitting on a bench sleeping in front of the courthouse...he is there alot even during the day, sometimes when it is misting rain outside etc...  It really bothered me to the point I can say that maybe even it plagued me.  Well I asked a girl at work that goes the same route I do each day if she see's him and she said no, but later on she remembered seeing a piece in our local paper about him.  That same day as I came home i passed him again and I was really drawn to go back and give him some money, maybe testify to him...not sure what I was supposed to do and not sure if it was the lord drawing me or just my own soft heart.  I went on.  When I got home I looked the article up on the internet and turns out this gentleman just got out of jail not long ago for child molesting.  I still sit here torn about how i should feel.  First, I know that the lord looks down harshly on those that harm children.  But I also know that it is not my place to judge.  But I as well know that jesus testified to the prostitutes and sinners of the world.  This man is still a human being though and I am not sure why in such a small community noone steps up and helps.  But then I wonder why does he sit there is it for safety...feeling the courthouse and local sherriff's office is there or is it for publicity?  This man claims to have found god whilst he was in jail as well.  But then you think about what the child went through that he molested.  I am really torn as to how to feel, any thoughts?

[David_james]

Love and forgive him as Jesus would.

[Soldier4Christ]

As David said we are to love and forgive him. This does not mean that we should put trust in him by allowing him to be in a position where he may be tempted again. For the safety of others we must be careful in that manner. This includes your own safety. Witnessing to him, aiding him out of the homeless situation he is in (if he is indeed homeless), all of this is right in the eyes of God but keep in mind also at the same time that God does not expect us to purposefully put ourselves into a position whereby we may be hurt.

I am glad that you mentioned the publicity part. Perhaps he sits there so as to have an alibi so that he does not get accused of the same thing again?

It is difficult to tell without knowing more of him personally.

[itsmeagaingod]

I was thinking exactly what you was that it's okay to help but be cautious!  What if noone helps and this man freezes to death this winter (although he goes in the courthouse bathroom when it's cold), and he really is not saved...what a horrible tragedy!   There is so many tough things in this world you have to think through with what should you do from a christian aspect, and not just giving lip service to the idea of christian, I think if the lord is working in you things like this plague you...at least they should.  I think it all comes from the heart and the lord works right through your heart, at least that is how i know he is there.  Sometimes he has to hit me right in the face with things cause I often times like to depend on self a little to much...hence the name i picked when i signed for this site.  But I really do wonder about things such as this and this particular situation has really bothered me.   Here is the article: http://madisoncourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&subsectionID=253&articleID=39490

[David_james]

Are you very sure he isn't? All I am saying is, unless you see hard proof, you can never know

[itsmeagaingod]

am I very sure he isn't what?

[Soldier4Christ]

It is a horrible thing and he has even admitted to having done so. Yes, my heart goes out more to the victim than it does to this man. Yet my heart does go out to him also. He is in this situation because of what he did. It is a part of paying for what he has done. He does need a helping hand but at the same time he must attempt to do what is right also in abiding by the stipulations of his probation. He needs to attempt to find employment instead of just sitting camped out, if that is what he is doing, or get some vocational training.

[itsmeagaingod]

can't get a job without a address...but i agree with you whole heartedly.  I wonder how much help has been offered he has turned down.  I don't know why this bothers me so much.  You also have to remember he is very close to retirement age and to boot you have to remember he is in a very small community which makes it tougher I feel to get employment...everyone knows him.  I also feel that if he is for instance going across the street to the salvation army for meals etc... is he giving anything back?  I am sure they could use someone to clean a little etc...  I myself am working overtime to see my family through as my husband had a very bad back injury at work...we would still give to a good cause knowing the lord provides.  He has seen us through, so no worries that he will not take care of us even if i stopped and gave this guy a 100.00 dollars i feel the Lord would always take care of us.  But I just like to know that when I give those I give to turn around and give back and that does not have to be monetary.  Just the way the world should work in my opinion, then we would live in a much better place.

[Soldier4Christ]

Usually most Salvation Army's have children around so that probably would not be permitted.

I do agree on the giving. As for the giving back I prefer to call it give forward as I would rather the person do something for someone else that really needs it. Unfortunately there are some that don't want to do and just want others to continue giving to them. It would be really nice if this man truly has the love of God in him and is not one of those.

[itsmeagaingod]

Pastor Roger it seems after i posted the article and you read it, that you seem a bit apprehensive to?  Am I reading you correctly?  What do you think is the right thing to do?  And David if your asking me do I know for sure he is not saved, no I don't.  I don't know anyone's true heart, only the lord does.  But I do know there are alot of people in jail that say they found the Lord etc... in order to get time for good behavior etc...and get out and then they're actions don't show it.  Would also hold true for someone that is in the public eye that had done such a horrible deed...alot of people would think that if they said they had found god, that others may be more forgiving of them.  Just to throw that in to his interview seems a bit fishy and if you read the article he talks about seeing angels on the street etc..., it's just all very weird.  But for whatever reason I still can't help being drawn to him everytime i pass by.  Not sure if it is just my own soft heartedness or the Lord pulling me.

[Soldier4Christ]

Yes, the information in the article did make me a little bit more skeptical towards him due to the things that you mentioned just now. You mentioned the Salvation Army being just across the street. They are much better set up to help a person such as him than an individual is. If you really feel led to help this person out perhaps it would be better to do it through the Salvation Army. That would put an additional safeguard in the picture for you.

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

I spent my life in law enforcement and wanted to offer a few very broad observations - agree or disagree - they are true:

1 - Many people live on the street because they want to. I know this sounds odd, but it's true. I dealt with many for 25 years who had families and homes to go to. I had dealings with them often enough to have conversations with them. Please keep in mind that this is just one category of people living on the street. They say it's the ultimate freedom - don't pay taxes - don't get hounded by the IRS - can be "John Doe" if they want - don't pay bills - do what they want - go where they want - sleep where they want - etc., etc. I knew many people who lived on the street most of my career, and they are still living on the street. Most of them have alcohol and/or drug addictions that they ENJOY, and they don't want their family or others to be telling them what to do. Many of them also have income that is spent almost entirely on their addictions. Their food and other essentials are usually given to them by kind hearted Christians.

2 - Some people are homeless short-term under conditions not of their own choosing. BUT, remember there are all kinds of shelters - BUT they all have rules against alcohol and drugs. All shelters must have rules for the safety and welfare of other residents - and some can't or won't obey those rules. The same is true for staying with family members. If they don't have rules for "Homeless John" or "Homeless Jane", they WILL. It's just a fact of life that many people living on the street don't like rules and won't obey them. Many shelters won't take them because the shelter already has experience with them breaking the rules. Their freedom to do what they want to is more important than obeying rules. Many of them are anti-social, and some are sociopaths. AND, the worst are criminals and near psychopaths. Many of them are almost harmless, but many of them are dangerous. If they have lived on the street for any length of time, it's reasonable to consider they are armed at least with a knife. This is to protect themselves primarily from people who think just like they do.

3 - If you want to help people like this, first know that there are numerous categories of dangerous, criminal, and addictive behaviors to consider. Forget about the appearance that indicates they might be helpless and too weak to hurt anyone. Some of them are weak, but many are more than capable of harming others in many different ways. Many of them are also cons and have all kinds of games to get their next fix or their next bottle. Make a habit of helping them in SAFETY. Don't put yourself in danger, and please don't consider yourself to be so rough and tough that they can't harm you or victimize you in some way. Take other people with you to help them - mainly because there is some degree of safety in numbers. Help them during the daylight in public places and bring a cell phone to call for help if you need it. Take a hint that things are getting dangerous if more homeless people start to congregate. Pay attention to your SAFETY!

4 - Make a habit of NEVER GIVING MONEY! Many will simply go buy their next round of alcohol or dope. Give them food or some other necessity INSTEAD OF MONEY! A great gift for a career homeless person is a warm coat, warm clothing, a sleeping bag, gloves, a warm head covering they can pull down over their ears, insulated underwear, canned goods of food with a self-opening tab, and other things that would be wise for survival. Repeat - NEVER GIVE THEM MONEY because most of them will spend it on their addictions.

5 - Many career homeless people don't want an identity, and they don't want others to know their real name. Many of them deal with the police several times a week. Many of them have GROUP homes that are abandoned or empty houses and buildings. This saves money for their addictions. Some of them actually share rented apartments or houses for the same reason. They don't want to spend their government, welfare, disability, or other checks for necessities. They nearly always have fights in group situations because none of them want to obey rules, and they don't want anyone telling them what to do. Some of them had a group home or a shelter and were kicked out. Many of them have spent time in prison for a variety of crimes - including the worst ones like MURDER. Some of them are quite dangerous - even when they are too high or drunk to walk. DON'T ASSUME THEY ARE HELPLESS!

In conclusion, remember there are all kinds of organizations, government and private, to help people. There are food banks, shelters, and programs of just about everything you can dream of. HOWEVER, most of them have rules, and they must have rules. None of them allow drug or alcohol use, and ALL have systems designed to PREVENT paying for alcohol and drugs. Alcohol and drug environments are DANGEROUS - NOT just for the users - for everyone coming into contact with them. DON'T ALLOW THEM TO MAKE YOU A VICTIM! It isn't WISE to give them your name, address, telephone number, or other identifying they could use for identity theft or other criminal activity. Help them in all kinds of smart ways. SADLY, many of them have criminal games to play with soft-hearted Christians. You are an easy VICTIM because you are soft-hearted, and they know how to use that soft heart for all kinds of con games. Many are quite happy to play con games with your church or any other group of people trying to help them. KNOW THIS UP FRONT and stick to smart ways of helping. As an easy example, you don't want to allow them to get you alone and isolated on their turf. Just use your imagination about what might be done to you. Their turf is the alley, under the bridge, in a broken down building, in an abandoned warehouse, and all kinds of places where it would be difficult for you to get help. BE SMART WITH YOUR SAFETY. HELP THEM, BUT NOT WITH THEIR ADDICTIONS!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Christian Quotes 96 -
Troubles and perplexities
In the tumult and discord of human troubles and
perplexities, how blessed are the balm-words of
Christ, "Your heavenly Father knows that you have
need of all these things!" Matthew 6:32
 -- John MacDuff  1895

[itsmeagaingod]

Thank you bep for the concern of my safety...my husband has made it very clear that I am not to under any circumstances to approach anyone without him or someone else with me, even if it is in front of the courthouse and police station.  He is very protective, and had it not been for the fact that that is where the gentlemen sit I would never have thought of going back.  It was in broad daylight in front of the police station.  I guess because it is such a small town that was why it was so heartbreaking for me to see this man sitting there day after day...it just don't happen here that someone is so apparently homeless.  Not that there may not be other homeless people but it is not visible i guess.  There have been alot of valid points brought up on this thread that are making me think this through more thouroughly.  I am beginning to feel as though this man has been given opportunities and from things I have read has picked and chose which one's he would accept.  I read there is a homeless shelter for men, which I did not know about in our town...which brings up the question why not go there.  Then you have a address, then you can seek employment etc... and as I have said before I want to help people that not only helps themselves but turns around and gives back to others, and that does not have to be monetary but it is important to give back.  Like i said it is not commonplace here to see someone homeless and so I guess it really bothers me to see it, guess I am somewhat secluded from alot of things in this world living where I live, although things such as drugs and crime seem to be getting worse even here.  But I just know I am gonna drive by tomorrow on my way to work and when I see him I am still gonna feel bad for him...maybe that is what he wants everyone to feel and it works on my part.  I am really gonna pray about this and try to figure out if it is "self" leading me or the Lord.

[Soldier4Christ]

Your feelings just mean that you do have the love of the Lord in your heart and not a hardened heart that so many have today. It is important though to balance that soft heart with the wisdom of God also and not that of our own.

I am really gonna pray about this and try to figure out if it is "self" leading me or the Lord.

This is seeking God's wisdom and I will be praying with you in this matter.

[nChrist]

Hello itsmeagaingod,

Sister, you don't ever have to apologize for being soft-hearted and loving. That's what GOD wants us to do and what GOD wants us to feel. I live in a relatively small city of about 140,000 that goes up and down with the military base we are actually joined with. There are dozens of homeless people in my city, and there are places for all of them to get permanent help and leave the street. Some want to leave the street and some don't.

I would like to encourage you to act on the love you have in your heart in a smart way. It will be winter soon, and that homeless man will have greater needs if this is his way of life. One of the best things you could do to help him is provide some necessity he could use for the entire winter. Give him a good coat or an insulated wind suit like a farmer might use in the fields. It doesn't have to be new. If you are a person of average or below average financial means, please don't consider spending a lot of money your own family needs for necessities. It sounds rude and heartless for me to say that many of them live the way they do by choice, but that's the truth. Many police officers provide necessities for homeless people often - especially during the winter. I'll tell you a little secret that all police officers know: many street people do things to be arrested during harsh winters. They get a break from the weather, get fed, get cleaned up, and are treated good. They know the system and know how to get xxx number of days in jail. They also know that if they stay too long, they will go into DTs or various kinds of withdrawal from harsh street drugs. SO, they also plan their stay to get their next fix or bottle on time. We know that, and they know that we know it.

We try to make sure they don't freeze to death during harsh winters and check on them often. I'll give you an example of them making the system work. The officer shakes them and asks them if they are ok. They get up and swing wildly at the officer - missing him or her by a mile. The officer arrests them for a minor offense like disorderly conduct and takes them to jail. There is no irony that minor offenses like this against police officers increase dramatically in harsh winter storms. Don't you know what's really happening in this situation? The first thing the officer does in booking the person into jail is making sure they get fed and something warm to drink. The officer already knows what this person was doing and why. On the other side of the coin, many officers are hurt in dealing with street people. AND, officers can get some of the deadly diseases the street people carry with them. Many of them have worn out their welcome in just about every agency designed to help them, so they rely on the jails. Police officers also check what they have to survive before they get out of jail. Police officers many times give them what they lack when they get out. This is just one reason why most of them never want to hurt police officers. That's why they missed by a country mile with that swing on the officer.  This doesn't mean that the officer lets the guard down because the same person might try to kill them on the next meeting. It's a complicated matter of survival, and it's also a matter for prayer and actions by those with soft hearts. You might even hear the judge ask them, "How long do you think you need to spend in jail?" You know that the judge also knows what's going on.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Christian Quotes 328 -
"These, then, are the two points I wanted to make. First, that human
beings, all over the earth, have this curious idea that they ought to
behave in a certain way, and cannot really get rid of it. Secondly,
that they do not in fact behave in that way. They know the Law of
Nature; they break it. These two facts are the foundation of all clear
thinking about ourselves and the universe we live in."
 -- C.S. Lewis