Confused

[alice]

Please help!

I am have reached a point in my life where I am beginning to question my faith and I don't know what to do.

A friend of mine (who is a good person but not a Christian) was explaining evolution and the big bang theory to me. He is very intelligent and has a Masters degree some area of science(I dont know exactly what). It seemed that every question I asked him, he had an answer and it all seemed to make so much sense at the time.

He said things about the Bible not being proved and pointed out passages that I haven't seen before that disturbed me.

I came away feeling very lost and confused and though I've prayed for answers, none have come.

What can I do to resolve this? I feel like my brain and my heart are not speaking to each other.

[charlie]

Alice,

Evolution is bunk, I'll repeat, evolution is bunk.

Have a look at this site and then tell me what you think.

http://aig.gospelcom.net/home.aspx

[michael_legna]

Please help!

I am have reached a point in my life where I am beginning to question my faith and I don't know what to do.

A friend of mine (who is a good person but not a Christian) was explaining evolution and the big bang theory to me. He is very intelligent and has a Masters degree some area of science(I dont know exactly what). It seemed that every question I asked him, he had an answer and it all seemed to make so much sense at the time.

He said things about the Bible not being proved and pointed out passages that I haven't seen before that disturbed me.

I came away feeling very lost and confused and though I've prayed for answers, none have come.

What can I do to resolve this? I feel like my brain and my heart are not speaking to each other.

Let me start by explaining that I have a Mater's degree in Nuclear Physics, just so you can get a sense that I know something about this area.

Be assured that being a scientist does not mean you cannot have faith.  Your friend either doesn't remember or perhaps never knew that science doesn't even claim to be pursuing truth.  Because of something called the white crow thought experiment (which proves that scientific experiments can never prove anything) science now is pursuing the best most workable theory.  That is because science's job is to give us control over our world and you need predicitive power to do that and that is what a good theory gives you.

Evolution does the best job of explaining the observable phenomena and so is accepted because it allows us to predict things in nature.  Creationism on the other hand has no predicitive power and so it is not a science at all.  Does that make evolution right and creationism worng?  No!  It makes evolution more valuable to scientists in their control of this world.  

A more extreme example might help.  In the early days of electromagnetics a man named Maxwell came up with some great formulas (still used today) that explained most of the behavior observed to that point in time.  Unfortunately the mathematics used was something called quaternions and that form of math was mainly applied to gears and levers.  Did physics reject his theory for that reason?  No.  Did physics think that the air was full of little gears and levers?  No.  They used the theory and the math until something better came along to better predict behavior.  They knew it wasn't the truth but they don't care because the paradigm of science is different from the paradigm of religion.  One seeks predicitive power and the other seeks truth.

The Big Bang does a great job of prediciting the ratio of hydrogen to helium observed in the universe.  Is it true?  No.  There will be a better theory along in the future.  Do the scientist care?  They shouldn't.  The scientist might even someday embrace the story of Genesis if there was found a way from within it to offer better predicitions than what they had, but then again they would do the same for a theory built on gears and levers - oh that's right they already have.

I would only add that much of the Bible is written in parables or stories with many levels of meanin.  So although I will always contend that a proper interpretation of scripture will be the truth, I do not contend that any specific interpretation by man is the truth.  That leads us to the next question.  Is the six day creation a proper interpretation of the Genesis story?  I don't know I am only a man and am not qualified to say.  But there is a real possibility that the story is there to teach us something much deeper and more important than the mechanics of how God made everything.  So there are two ways out for a scientist of faith.

I hope this helps, but I sense there is something deeper threatening your faith and maybe this is just a symptom.  If it is let us know if we can help.

[Sower]

Please help!
I am have reached a point in my life where I am beginning to question my faith and I don't know what to do.
A friend of mine (who is a good person but not a Christian) was explaining evolution and the big bang theory to me. He is very intelligent and has a Masters degree some area of science(I dont know exactly what). It seemed that every question I asked him, he had an answer and it all seemed to make so much sense at the time. He said things about the Bible not being proved and pointed out passages that I haven't seen before that disturbed me. I came away feeling very lost and confused and though I've prayed for answers, none have come. What can I do to resolve this? I feel like my brain and my heart are not speaking to each other.

Alice:

Here is what you can do to strengthen your faith and resist the devil:

1. Believe with all your heart that God created both our brains and our hearts, and the Gospel, the Bible, and Christ satisfy BOTH.  Being a Christian does not mean checking our intelligence at the door. The Bible meets all the demands of human intellect [which is nothing in comparison to God]

2. Understand clearly that Satan used this man very specifically to sow doubt in your mind, and you must understnad that you were under Satanic attack: "When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, THEN COMETH THE WICKED ONE, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart.  THis is he which received seed by the way side... But when they have heard, SATAN COMETH IMMEDIATELY, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts... Those by the way side are they that hear: THEN COMETH THE DEVIL IMMEDIATELY, and taketh away the word out of their hearts LEST THEY SHOULD BELIEVE AND BE SAVED (Mt. 13:19; Mk. 4:15; Lk. 8:12).

3.  DO NOT GO BACK AND HAVE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSIONS WITH THIS "FRIEND" -- He is being used as the enemy of your soul. Don't forget that Satan knows the Scriptures and used them against Christ (Matt. 4:1-11).

4.  Prayer is not exactly where you will receive the answers, but immersing yourself in Scripture and BELIEVING IT AS A LITTLE CHILD [in simple faith and without questioning] IS THE ANSWER: "Man shall not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of God... Verily, I say unto you, EXCEPT YE BE CONVERTED, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 4:4; 18:3).

5. The human intellect and human reason are at war against God and against the things of the Spirit: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved IT IS THE POWER OF GOD.  For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, AND WILL BRING TO NOTHING THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE PRUDENT... For after that in the wisdom of God THE WORLD BY WISDOM KNEW NOT GOD, it pleased God BY THE FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING to save them that believe... For ye see your calling, brethren, how that NOT MANY WISE MEN AFTER THE FLESH [human nature], NOT MANY MIGHTY, NOT MANY NOBLE ARE CALLED: But God hath chosen THE FOOLISH THINGS OF THE WORLD TO CONFOUND THE WISE... (1 Cor. 1:17-31).

6. Faith is believing God and trusting Him and His Word EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE NO PHYSICAL PROOF: "Through FAITH we understand that THE WORLDS WERE FRAMED BY THE WORD OF GOD, so that things which are seen [the visible universe] were not made of things which do appear [was literally made out of "nothing" -- God spoke and it was done]... But WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him." (Heb. 11:3,6).

7. Ask yourself: Do I believe God even though I do not understand [and may never understand] everything?  If you believe God with all your heart, nothing that Satan throws at you will ever shake your faith:  "LET GOD BE TRUE, BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR" (Rom.3:4).

[ebia]

As michael has implied, there is no incompatibility between Christian faith and the results of science, and the vast majority of Christians (outside of the United States at least) are perfectly happy with, for example, the theory of evolution.

Unfortunately, the administrators of these forums saw fit to remove the forum for discussion of this topic, so I can't refer you to the many previous debates on this issue.

[alice]

Thank you all for your kind replies.
I would find it very hard not to talk to Jon (my friend) again as he is a very good friend and assures me that he's not trying to talk me out of my faith, but is just being honest.

I have always tried to live my life through the word of Christ and The Bible but Jon showed me verses in Exodus and Leviticus that upset me very much about slavery and some other strange rules.

Does God really want us not to question? Did he not give us mind that we could use to find truth around us? I feel that if I don't look for truth, then I'm just kidding myself and not being honest.

I have tried to ignore these thoughts but they wont go away.

Also, I'm frightened to speak to Pastor about this as I don't want him to think I am bad.

Can I go to Hell for questioning The Bible?

[Mr. 5020]

Can I go to Hell for questioning The Bible?

You need to study your Bible more.[/size]

[alice]

I have been studying my Bible but I'm worried by what I've been shown.

Verses about slavery and murdering people for working on the sabbath. My mother never told me about this.
Neither did George (our pastor)


Also, Jon told me that there is proof that the world is older than the bible says.

I am very confused and upset.

[Symphony]

Hi, Alice.  Just let all that "upsetness" flow all over you, cuz as you start looking into this "law of liberty", as Paul calls it, I think you'll start to see all that upsetness  start to flow away.  

First, discussions like yours will always get you looking at the trees, and not the forest.

For instance, your friend there(hehe--well, "maybe"-- ), is giving you reasons why "not" to believe.  Is that correct?

Notice that friends such as this, or in discussions such as this, never will be broached the simple alternative question, and certainly equally as valid, as, "Why "NOT" believe?"  That is, why shouldn't we believe?  (Thank you to Whitehorse, here, on this one)

And launch into all the reasons as to why we can believe in all the bible teaches or even just implies--easter, and rising from the dead, and forgiveness, and salvation from our sins(try telling him that you are not a sinner, just for kicks, and see if he doesn't acknowledge suddenly that there is such a thing as sin--hehe), Christmas and love and babies and air to breathe and birds that sing and bees that buzz.

And then tell him that he must be blind.

As for the slavery thing, if I'm interpreting his stance correctly here, he obviously isn't reading the Bible at all:  Jeremiah 34:10(and, interestingly, verse 11).

Finally, Alice, there are any number of verses in the New Testament on the importance of having your faculties trained, in order to "quench the fiery darts of the wicked one".  

We probably all go through what you are confronting.  It's a lifelong process.

But you'll have to "study to show thyself approved", so you can spot the manuvres that are being launched against you.

And believe me, they will be launched against you.  "...Satan hath desired to have me, that he may sift me like wheat..."

We're praying for you.  It's day by day affair.  

[alice]

Thank you all again. I'm so glad to have found the support and love of people on this site. I will challenge Jon to explain himself and point out his errors if I can.

To all who have replied, you are in my prayers.

Alice

[Tibby]

Nothing wrong with questioning, Alice. The Answers are what count.

If you would, please share these passages with us. I would be interested in what he said to disterb you.

Remember, there are PhDs who do believe in God. A degree only shows you are smart, it doesn’t mean you are right.

[2nd Timothy]

Thank you all for your kind replies.
I would find it very hard not to talk to Jon (my friend) again as he is a very good friend and assures me that he's not trying to talk me out of my faith, but is just being honest.

I have always tried to live my life through the word of Christ and The Bible but Jon showed me verses in Exodus and Leviticus that upset me very much about slavery and some other strange rules.

Does God really want us not to question? Did he not give us mind that we could use to find truth around us? I feel that if I don't look for truth, then I'm just kidding myself and not being honest.

I have tried to ignore these thoughts but they wont go away.

Also, I'm frightened to speak to Pastor about this as I don't want him to think I am bad.

Can I go to Hell for questioning The Bible?

Hi Alice,

I would encourage you to not be afraid to aproach your pastor for help.  Thats why he is there.  Your friend has been educated and taught things contrary to what the Bible teaches.  On the other hand, you are not equiped to debate his arguments because of the fragile state of your faith.  Your Pastor on the other hand should be.  And if he is worth his salt, he will not shun you for asking questions about Gods word.  He is your sheppard and is there for such guidance.  I strongly encourage you to get a properly balanced perspective from your pastor or someone who is strong in the word to assist you with friends ideas.

My prayers will be with you.

Grace and Peace!

[michael_legna]

Also, Jon told me that there is proof that the world is older than the bible says.

There is a very workable scientific theory that has as one of  it's results that the age of the earth is 4 billion or so years old, and that result allows scientists to predict many phenomena.  So because of it's usefulness the theory currently holds sway.  But philosophically it is only a theory not the truth in any absolute sense.  I for one think the 6 day creation related in the Bible is a parable to teach us other more important moral issues.  So I don't find a conflict with this scientific point.  However if I did I could take solace in the fact that science once claimed that the earth went around the sun, but doesn't anymore.  Suprised?  Read on.  

When first presented this sun centered solar system theory caused much dismay to religion of its time.  The Church, based on their interpretation of certain verses, had already said that everything went around the earth.  Their intelligence, authority and integrity were at stake so they came down hard on Galileo because he supported the sun centered solar system theory of Copernicus.  Who was right?  Well now most people think Galileo was.  

Most religious leaders no longer interpret the verses quoted back in Galileo's time to be literal.  The word of God wasn't wrong, but man's interpretation was.  But here is the kicker science has changed its mind.  A new theory has replaced Copernicus' theory.  Einstein's theory of Relativity says motion is all relative, so either model is right.  You can do all the math and get all the same predictions with the sun or the earth as the center of the solar system or of everything for that matter.  So both theories are equally valuable to science.  Which one is truth?  Science, again, doesn't care.  Science is not about truth.

I personally like to think the entire universe revolves around my right thumb.  The math is more difficult that way but I makes me feel important.

[alice]

The verses that disturbed me were in Leviticus and Exodus.

They seem to suggest that it's ok to have slaves.
There was one that said that if a man beats his slave and the slave dies, then the man must be punished unless the slave dies after a couple of days, in which case it's ok.

Also, Jon showed me a verse in Exodus that says a man who works on the sabbath must be executed.

Jon has said that I'm free to make up my own mind about what to believe but that I should have all the facts. I don't know where to look for explanations.

I think maybe I will ask Pastor George but I'm afraid that he will tell me not to speak to Jon who is a good friend and has been very good to me.

Have any of you read the verses I mentioned? What do you think?

[Symphony]

Hi, Alice.  I briefly addressed your slavery issue above.  In post no. 8.


As for the slavery thing, if I'm interpreting his stance correctly here, he obviously isn't reading the Bible at all:  Jeremiah 34:10(and, interestingly, verse 11).


'Hope this helps.