Sin Poll Question

[nChrist]

Hello Preacher,

I can see that you simply want to argue, and you haven't even read the thread. Look at the thread question and the answers to that question. Believe whatever you wish to believe. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. More than enough hard Scripture is already listed to answer this question, but answer it in your own mind however you wish. I have better things to do with my time. You and one other want to argue the impossible, so maybe the two of you need to get together, or maybe the two of you are already together. Regardless, I have other work to do.

[preacher]

Hello Preacher,

I can see that you simply want to argue, and you haven't even read the thread. Look at the thread question and the answers to that question. Believe whatever you wish to believe. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. More than enough hard Scripture is already listed to answer this question, but answer it in your own mind however you wish. I have better things to do with my time. You and one other want to argue the impossible, so maybe the two of you need to get together, or maybe the two of you are already together. Regardless, I have other work to do.

[preacher]

Just that you know the are no one here with me but the lord . But thirty seven years ago I got born again not to say that I have not made mistakes but tried to get out of the sin business. Don.t mean to take time away from you

[nChrist]

Just that you know the are no one here with me but the lord . But thirty seven years ago I got born again not to say that I have not made mistakes but tried to get out of the sin business. Don.t mean to take time away from you

You sound exactly like Littleboy. Both of you have sinned whether you want to admit it or not. Big or small - Sin is Sin, but maybe you'd rather call them mistakes. GOD says that our righteousness is as filthy rags and ALL men sin, so what GOD calls it is all that matters.

[preacher]

but if we have god in our lives do you think we get up ever day to let sin control us

[heatherchelle_2000]

Dear Preacher,
     Please do re-read this thread slowly and carefully.  Think about what each person has written before you write your next post.  It will help your writing fit into the conversation better.  You and Littleboy seem to have the same opinion on this subject and it might be a good idea to contact him to see if you have anything else in common.  Maybe you guys could become good friends.   
     It is my belief that salvation is permanent.  Even if I committed a sin and was run over by a bus immediately afterward, I would still go to heaven.  (I try very hard not to sin, with varying degrees of success.)  We do have to struggle daily to die to our old sinful selves and instead be made new in the attitude of our minds.  But that process has nothing to do with salvation.  We choose to become new creatures in Christ because we want to please God and because that is how we become an example of His love and His power to our fallen world.  Every time Christians sin we are telling non-Christians that Jesus is no good!  But we are still forgiven and we are still going to heaven.  God bless you and have a happy Easter!

[jayglo83]

OK I had to get in on this.  This question in itself shows total ignorance of what Jesus did on the cross, and what the entire word of God is about. it shows a religious mindset that has infiltrated the what most like to call "Christian" church. Or is that the reason for asking it. surly you knew the kinds of answers or questions it would bring.

.............Sin in and of itself does not damn anyone!................

blackeyedpeas said it best by using the scriptures. but the whole flux of the "Bible" is renewal of man to God through the shed blood of Jesus.
Now once all was complete Jesus himself said. "It Is Finished" The completion of the covenant that God made with man was complete at the very moment.

Eph 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14  For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
Eph 2:15  Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
Eph 2:16  And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Sin no longer has power except through the accuser of the saints. Sin in and of itself is not the issue. once you have accepted Jesus as your Sacrifice.

Again in Ephesians he says

Eph 2:5  Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6  And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7  That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

His gift of Salvation did not have anything to do with whether you sinned or did not sin. Once we accept him in our lives as Savior and Lord sin becomes a non issue. Once you truly get a picture of the absolute GRACE (unmerited favor) then sin itself begins to be distasteful. the outcome of which is a life that is a whole lot cleaner than the one you had lived.

What brings Salvation is Accepting Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice for the authority that Adam laid down in the first place.
What brings"damnation"(separation from God) is Not accepting Jesus as the Ultimate sacrifice for all sin.

I could go on and on, this is an issue that keeps most Christians crying at the alter instead of decrying in the streets the Name that is above every name.

You have heard the term "Plead the Blood" right? well if you haven't you should. Most of the old timers say "I plead the blood" in a crying bleating plea of unworthiness not understanding at all what the Blood means. The term Plead is a legal term. For instance, when you stand before a judge He will ask you "How do you plead" you can say "hey yes I blew it. man I was a scum of the earth and every time I turn around I screwed up, but I plead the blood. That sacrificial blood of the "SINLESS" Lamb of God. That and that alone is what can can get you off.

It is a gift of God not of your own works lest any man should boast.  If your reading this I hope that if you havn't, you will accept Jesus as your sacrifice for all sins. and begin a new life. Man it is "Mind Blowing" The peace that it brings.

[nChrist]

AMEN HEATHER AND JAY!

We are NOT working our way to Heaven, mainly because we don't have the means to do so, and OUR OWN righteousness is as filthy rags. We DON'T place our faith and trust in any man, including ourselves, because NO man can provide what GOD requires EXCEPT OUR PERFECT AND HOLY LORD AND SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST! This is why we place our faith and trust in JESUS CHRIST and make HIM the LORD over our lives. JESUS CHRIST is the ONLY WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE! We find our Peace with GOD ONLY IN AND THROUGH JESUS CHRIST!

Our good works are ONLY good if they are done in LOVE for GOD. If they are done as a duty, for recognition, or for any other reason - they are burned up as worthless. Further, good works are NOT required for Salvation. GOD judges our good works for ETERNAL REWARDS that are over and above Salvation. Those without any good works have not lived a good Living Testimony before men, but they have not lost their Salvation. Christians are EXHORTED (urged) to do good works and have a good Living Testimony before men, but this is not a requirement for Salvation. Above all, we must remember that our good works MUST be out of LOVE alone for GOD before GOD considers them to be good works.

I give THANKS every day that the work of Salvation was completed PERFECTLY by JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS. We place our faith and trust in HIM and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS - because HE IS RIGHTEOUS, PERFECT, HOLY, AND NEVER FAILS! These things CAN'T be said about any man, including ourselves.

GOOD NEWS!

1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever!

[Brother Jerry]

These people below, BELIEVED they were Christians, Only a Christian would Attempt or be able to do wonderous things in "his name"

Little boy...if that were true Paul would not have spoke of false prophets.  But since Paul does speak of them, there must have been people professing to be of God, sent by God, and leading people astray.  They may have even been performing "miracles" in the name of God, much like some of our "faith healers" we see today.

Matt. 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

And what is the "will of my Father"?  "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind"

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Now look at what they are saying here.... "But Lord I did this, and I did that, and I did all this stuff in your name....but not once did they say they loved the Lord they God with all their heart, and with all their soul, and with all their mind.  They tried to justify salvation through works and not through faith.

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It has been said before in this verse... "I never knew you."  Never is a powerful word here.  Keep in mind it does not say that "I knew you once and forgot you", it says I never knew you, this means that they had never really come to Christ in the first place.  If one could gain and loose their salvation as you state then Jesus would have said something like "I knew you once but you went away."

Later you pulled some other verses in Littleboy.  Thank you.  But let us take a look at what you have.

1 John 2:
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Now we have a couple of things here.  Look at verse 2, we see that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.  We can see that this is referring to that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world, for everyone.  I think you and I can agree to that correct...if not then we have a deeper problem to discuss .  But now what do you think propitiation means?  Looking up the definitions just to make certain, propitiate means "to make favorably inclined; appease; conciliate."  The common terms today would say this means to pay for, as in the phrase Jesus paid the penalty for our sins.  And I think we can probably agree on that too.  So how did He pay for our sins?  He died for them.
Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
There is just a few verses to support that, there are more but we shall limit it there to save space.

So in order to be propitiated for our sins required Christ to die...how many times can we kill Him?  Christ died once, Romans 6:10 above tells us that.  He died once unto sin.  He was crucified only once.  If we were to lose our salvation He would have to be crucified again in order to get it back.  No Christ died once to offer the gift of salvation to the whole world. 

Matt. 5:
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Ok so now let us look at verse 19 up there.  Notice it says whoever shall break one of these least commandments...which I am sure you would agree that would be a sin.  Notice what will happen to that person... they shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven...it does not say that he will not be allowed into heaven..just called the least. 

Now verse 20...what wast he righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees measured by?  They measured it by their works.  See the explanations above where Christ said "I never knew you" and what it was they said they were doing.  Not what was in their hearts but what their hands were doing in the name of God.

Can it get ANY plainer than that?

Exactly

Let me ask you this littleboy, do you believe that Paul never struggled with sin once he accepted Christ?  What do you make of Paul's writings in Romans 7? 

There are several other verses that I would like to bring up.  Because in order to truly study scripture you should always use scripture.

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Now it is understood that the drinking of the water that Jesus is talking about here is accepting Christ as Lord and Savior.  Notice the word never...remember our talk above about the power of that word?  If we could turn away the salvation and lose it then we would be "thirsty" again.  And that would change the meaning of the word never wouldn't it.
Let us also look at another powerful word in that verse...everlasting.  How long do you think everlasting is?  Is it only until we ask for it again?

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Never hunger....never thirst.... never means never.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Here we have never gain...and another word...eternal, which is another one like everlasting...just sorta keeps going and going and going.

And one final one
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

So Littleboy let me ask you.  Do you believe that?  Do you believe that Jesus simply stated that in order to live forever all you have to do is believe in Jesus and turn your life over to Him?  Littleboy God knows that we sin, Paul says that ALL have sinned.  God knows that have sinned, do sin, and will sin.  And God cannot look upon us that way.  He sent His only begotten Son (John 3:16) to live as a man, to die as a man, but to be resurrected victorious over death so that we too may live like a man, die like a man, but through Jesus be victorious over death.  We may stumble and we may hit roadblocks (1 Peter 2:.  But Jesus is there to pick us up and help us along.  His blood was shed to cover us so that when God looks upon us, all He sees is Jesus' blood and not our sins. 

This does not mean that a Christian should live in a sinful way, ie drinking, gambling, going to the strip clubs, not going to church, etc, etc.  By no means no.  We as Christians should turn our lives over to Christ and let Him lead us.  Preacher was heading in the right direction with it, we should not let sin dictate our actions, and that we should let our love of our God, and the gratefulness of our salvation shine in everything we do.  However we are going to stumble sometimes.  We ALL WILL sin sometimes, and if you think speeding is not a sin, then I would strongly recommend you go back and read Romans 13:1-7 which tells us that we should be subject to the higer powers, in reference to the government and the laws of the land.  And that disobeying them would be resisting the ordinance of God...and that is a sin.

Littleboy I will pray for you that you would come to understand the assurance of your salvation.  And that it is not by anything you have done or can do except accepting the free gift.  Jesus paid the price for salvation through His death and there is nothing more we can do.