Sin Poll Question

[nChrist]

I'll ask the moderators not to participate until 11-15.

There is considerable confusion on this issue, so this is a good question to discuss. Please list a reason for your vote and any Scriptures that apply.

[Jon-Marc]

Absolutely not. When God saved me He gave me ETERNAL life and not temporary life. He doesn't adopt us into His family and then kick us out as soon as we sin. We have an Advocate, Jesus Christ, Who intercedes for us when we sin and lets the Father know, "I paid for their sin, and they are mine!" We will lose fellowship and blessings and will be chastised, but we will NEVER lose our salvation. I am sealed by the Holy Spirit onto the day of redemption, and I am safe and secure in Jesus Christ--FOREVER!

If works (sin) can cause us to lose our salvation, then that means that works can obtain our salvation or at least keep us saved. God said in Eph. 2:9 that salvation is NOT from works.

[HisDaughter]

I voted so now I guess I put my reasons and verses here?

I voted: No.
I know with certainty that I have salvation through Christ who died for me while I was yet a sinner and I will be a sinner until I am with Him
David sinned over and over again and because of his sin he had one of the most disfunctional families there ever was.  However he was called a "man after God's heart."  David sin but when he repented he never did that particular sin again.

My verses:
1 Kings 8:46  "When they sin agains you --for there is no one who does not sin---

Romans 7: 15, 17-20  "I do not understand what I do.  For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.  I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.  For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.  For what I do is ot the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do --this I keep on doing.  Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

1 Cor 8:12  "When yo sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
Paul is talking to brothers in Christ who sin

2 Cor 5:21  "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."
At one time I wondered what it meant to be "in" Christ, so I did a little study on the word "in" and this is what I found:

• within the bounds of
  to a condition of
  having the activity or function of
  wearing (I like the thought of "wearing Christ"!
  by means of
  with reference to
  to the inside
  to a goal of place
  do as to be included or contained (I like this one too!)
  

Gal 6:1a  "Brothers, if someone is causght in a sin, you who are spiritual, should restore him gently.
(Again, Paul is talking to brothers in Christ.

1 Timothy 5:20 "Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning"
(And again Paul is talking to belivers in the chruch.  He is saying to rebuke as in correct not "kick out".

1 John 1:8  "If we claim to without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

1 John 2:1  "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin.,  But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense --Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

And finally:

1 John 5:16- 17  " If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life.  I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death.  There is a sin that leads to death.  I am no saying that he should pray about that.  All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death."




I'll bet you've been wondering if I knew my Bible or could just give smart-alek replies and posts! 

[/i]

[Littleboy]

Yes, is my answer to the poll ? & Here's some of my reasons for thinking this way:
Romans 6:
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1TIM. 5:
19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.


1 Peter 4
1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
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There's a verse or two somewhere in the Bible that says that your name Can be Blotted out of the Book of Life.
I'll find them if you need me too?

And the other one IF the Blind follow the Blind, Both shall fall into the Ditch...

This is what some Christians will say on that day and they were able to do some wonderous things & look where they thought they were going:
MATT. 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
 
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


I'LL Find More, Later Ok?
YLBD





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1 John 2:
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Love and Serve ONE GOD(the God of Abraham,Issac & Jacob) with ALL your Heart Mind & Soul
& Love your Neighbour as you Love yourself,,,,, IF WE Do those two things we have FULFILLED all those things that God has asked of us thru his SON & the Laws of the Prophets.. JESUS said that...

ONCE you find Jesus, WHY does it seem so Impossible for us to keep from Sinning?
And i'm not talking about the ones picking up sticks on the sabbath or not wearing your seatbelts or your motorcycle helmets or any other thing like that!

Just don't Lie, Steal, Kill, Fornicate, Drunkeness, ECT. ect. ect.The things in his Doctrine that he says don't do or you will Burn?

The Lord shows me Favor on a daily Basis and I've been this way about sin for a long time Now..
So i'm not changing anything i'm doing, And God Will Judge me on this Matter,
And as Long as I remember Too be Merciful, I Will Obtain Mercy, Because mercy Conquers Judgment from God...

Once you know Scripture you have no excuses for what you do and everything is being written Down, to be opened on that day & then the Book of Life...
Once a person has read All the words of God, Can that person say to God I did'nt know that was a Sin?
It was Unintentional, Lord...
Good Luck with that one...
YLBD
P.S
More Later If Needed

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

This is a debate question, so please feel free to debate all you want. The moderators won't take part in this debate until 11-15 and maybe never.

Love In Christ,
Tom

KEEP LOOKING UP!!

[HisDaughter]

Yes, is my answer to the poll ? & Here's some of my reasons for thinking this way:
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Hi Little boy!  I only have a minute because I have to get ready for work and take my grandson to daycare this morning.

So let me get clear on your thinking.  You are saying that if you sin you could lose your salvation?  Not true my friend.  We all sin everyday.  If not by outward actions then in our own hearts.  Have you quit sinning because you are saved?  No.  Everyone sins.  That is just a fact of life until we are will HIM.

Take your first verse that I have copied.    "if any man sin we have an advocate"
And according to the verses that I used, even Paul said that he does things that he didn't want to (sin)

Your second verse: "propitiation "  meaning: to appease or conciliate somebody or something
We wouldn't need that if we didn't sin.
In fact we wouldn't need Jesus "on a daily basis" if we didn't sin.

I'm sorry Littleboy, I am typing and thinking in a hurry this morning and will have to get back to this later.

Love In Christ,
Yvette

[David_james]

I don't know.
There are some sins that I do. I ask God for help but I still do it. I don't like doing it but I'm too weak. I need to repent to go to heaven right? But I'm not really repenting if I keep falling into the same sins am i? 

[HisDaughter]

I don't know.
There are some sins that I do. I ask God for help but I still do it. I don't like doing it but I'm too weak. I need to repent to go to heaven right? But I'm not really repenting if I keep falling into the same sins am i? 

Here is your answer:

Romans 7: 15, 17-20  "I do not understand what I do.  For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.  I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.  For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.  For what I do is ot the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do --this I keep on doing.  Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.


This was Paul's struggle.  Did he go to Heaven or hell?
We will always sin.  Sometimes it will be the same thing over again.  But in prayer, God knows our heart.  At the time you pray, are you truely sorry?  Yes?  Then you are forgiven.  And God remembers it no more.
What did Jesus say about how many times a person should be forgiven by another?  7 x 70?  He was giving and example of God's forgivness.

[Littleboy]

Of course Paul struggled within, he helped kill Christians and many other bad things,
But by the end of his life, His struggles (the war between his flesh & spirit) had ended, You can see this by what's written in his other books..
If Sin Abides (lives) IN you, The Love of God CANNOT, HE says this, not just me...More than 1 time too...

The Pastor might want to tell you what the parable of the unforgiving servant means:
Matt. 18:21-35
It has NOTHING to do with God allowing you to just keep sinning and the Example Jesus gives is a Parable
When a verse says WHEREFORE in the beginning of the next verse, Try not to seperate it from the previous verse or you'll take what is being said out of context, as you can see you've done here...
Please don't take this wrong, OK?
If you reread this parable you'll see it's not how many times, But if you can't forgive someone for something so small,
HOW can I forgive you for so Much!
I think that was his Message, Not to keep on sinning I'll just keep forgiving you...
YLBD
P.S
 The reason were told to forgive our brother 7x70 is that to be forgiven you must be able to forgive,
and if you can't even forgive him 1 time, you cannot be forgiven for ALL you've done against God...

[HisDaughter]

I think I was misunderstood.  I course we don't go around doing whatever we please with the thought of " oh, well.  I'll just ask God to forgive me for that" and then go out and to the same awful thing again.   That certainly would not be repentant.
But yes God will forgive us if we are truly repentant, even if we do it again.

Lets say that I just stubbed my toe and I holler out a curse.  I'm going to feel might bad about it and I'm going to ask God to forgive me and help me with my foul mouth.  Then a couple days later I stub the same cotton pickin' toe and I holler out a curse.  Does that mean that I didn't mean that I was sorry the first time?  Of course not.  I was sorry.  But I did it again because I couldn't help it.  It was out of my mouth before I could stop it.  It hurt for crying out loud.  Now can I not be sorry again and ask for forgiveness again and ask God again to help me with my foul mouth?  Have I just lost my salvation?  Now the next week I'm up on a stool, trying to hang a curtain rod and I hit my thumb with a hammer.  What comes out of my mouth?  You got it.  A big ol' nasty curse word!  It might take me hitting and stubbing all my digits before I can ever get control of my mouth.
I've asked for forgiveness over and over and over for the same sin.  Is God going to say, "Sorry Yvette,  I can't let you in up here because you're too clumsy.  And besides that I have no more forgiveness for you."??  Of course not!  My God loves me.  He knows what an awful sinner I am.  That's why he sent his Son.

And as for Paul.  Of course he sinned.  He may not have kept going around persecuting the church, but he was human and therefore he sinned.  He may even have used the same cuss word I did when he stubbed his toe! 

[HisDaughter]

The previous post was "unintentional sin", so now for "intentional sin"

I've been saved and walking with Lord for a long time.  I've been faithful and have worked hard at putting my past behind me and I've grown in the Lord by leaps and bounds.
Now say some perverted puke rapes my little 3 year old grandson, who means more to me than anyone walking the face of the earth.  I go out and buy a hand gun and I plan on how I'm going kill that piece of wasted space.  I've thought about it and planned it.  When the creep comes out of the court house I shoot him right between the eyes and kill that cold piece dead!
Now that it's done, and I realize the extent of what I've just done, I'm regretful.  I'm eaten up with guilt and remorse over it.  I can't eat and I can't sleep.  I cry out in my agony to God for forgiveness.  Is He going to forgive me or am I going to lose my salvation?
Now remember I'm all ready saved and one of God's own.  But I planned and plotted this crime.  This sin of murder.  Just broken a commandent of God.
Is He going to forgive me?
Did God forgive David after he stole Uriah the Hittite's wife and plotted and planned Uriah's murder?  Yes.  God forgave David, the man after God's own heart!  David wept with repentance, and God forgave him.
Were there consequences for David because of his sin?  Yes.  That baby died.
Would there be consequences for me if I kill the puke that harmed my grandson?  Yes.  There are consequences for our sins.  But lose salvation over it?  No.  There is only one unforgivable sin.  And that is to deny the Holy Spirit.  To deny God.  To deny Christ.  To turn your back.

In Christ,
Grammyluv 

[Littleboy]

I'm going to have some cake...
YLBD
P.S
All your ?'s about that, God can answer one day for you ok?
Not for me to Judge that one...

[HisDaughter]

[David_james]

thank you grammy ((hugs)) I know now that I am not going to lose my salvation. 

[HisDaughter]

Thank YOU Brother David!  And great big hugs right back at ya! 



Every morning I get up and I can hardly wait to see what someone has posted on these polls and I am disappointed.  Of over 3,000 members there are only 4? 5? of us willing to jump up.

I am sure there are other ministers on here that are not moderators.  PK's?  Ladies?  Do you not have an opinion or a BELIEF?  This is the problem with the church today.  Everyone is happy to sit on the side lines and watch.
Say something.  Right or wrong.  That is how we learn folks.  Step out and say what is on your mind.  Tell me I'm an old bitty for writing this.  Anything!