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| | |-+  Is Water Baptism needed for Salvation? The Bible says no.
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Author Topic: Is Water Baptism needed for Salvation? The Bible says no.  (Read 15301 times)
Jabez
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« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2003, 08:32:14 AM »

Something i found...

Baptism is how we get into Christ.

Baptism is always accompanied by faith and repentance.

Baptism is God’s terms of surrender.

Baptism is our signal to God we have accepted Christ’s gospel.

Baptism is the external washing with water and the internal washing away of sin by God.

Baptism is “calling on the name of the Lord.”

Baptism is being unified with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection.

Baptism is “clothing” ourselves with Christ.

Baptism is “accepting” Christ (on His terms, not ours)

Baptism is when our sins are forgiven.

Baptism is when we receive the Holy Spirit.

Baptism is how and when we come into contact with the blood of Christ.

Baptism is when we are reborn.

Baptism is an act of faith.

Baptism is how we enter the kingdom of God.

Baptism is when we are added to the body of Christ (the church).

Baptism is when we exchange our life for His.

Baptism is when we die to ourselves and come alive in Christ.

Baptism is the washing of regeneration, and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

Baptism is the starting gun of a race of a new life.

Baptism is proclaiming in Christ the resurrection of the dead.

Baptism is when the old dies and the new arises. In this manner we become saved.

Baptism is the point in time when we become saved.

Baptism is when we stop living for ourselves and start living for Jesus.

Baptism is how and when we scripturally make a conscious decision to dedicate our lives to Christ.

Baptism is how we scripturally enter into a relationship with Christ.

Baptism is the gavel striking the bench proclaiming forgiveness of sins, the end of the old and the birth of the new.

 

BAPTISM:

is done FOR the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38)

is done to SAVE us (1Peter 3:21, Acts 2:40, Mark 16:16)

Is done to WASH AWAY OUR SINS (Acts 22:16)

is done to be  REBORN to new life (John 3:5, Romans 6:3-6)

is done to CLOTHE ourselves with Christ (Gal 3:26-27)

is done so that  GOD will RESURRECT us from death (Colossians 2:12, Romans 6:3-6)

is done as a REQUIRMENT to enter heaven (John 3:5)

is done to put us INTO CHRIST (Romans 6:3-6, Galatians 3:26-27, 1Corinthians 12:13)

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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2003, 09:00:42 AM »

**Food for Thought**

God’s salvation plan teaches to be saved we must:

1.)   Hear the “good news” of Jesus Christ (Romans 10:14)

2.)   Believe (Hebrews 11:6; Acts 8:37; Mark 16:16)

3.)   Repent of our sins (Luke 13:3,5; Acts 2:38; Acts 17:30; Mark 10:15)

4.)   Confess faith in Jesus Christ (Acts 8:36-37; Romans 10:9)

5.)   Be baptized (in water) for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:37-41; 1Peter 3:21; John 3:3-5; Acts 22:16; Romans 6:3-8; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:26-27; Mark 16:15-16; Acts 8:34-39; Titus 3:5; Ephesians 4:5)

6.)   Remain faithful for the rest of our lives and carry our cross daily (Revelation 2:10; Matthew 24:13; Luke 9:23)

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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2003, 09:21:51 AM »

Wrong & Wrong

You need to do a lot more studying Bro

Brother Love Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2003, 09:31:25 AM »

WHats Wrong!And yes iam still studing...
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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2003, 10:14:47 AM »

At the point of belief according to 145 scriptures that link salvation with belief/faith alone.

There is not a single passage, not even an allusion to failure to be water baptized will result in condemnaton/judgment.

John 5:24 is quite sufficient to refute the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration.

aw
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« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2003, 10:29:58 AM »

John 3:3-8
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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2003, 12:01:25 PM »

The OT, circumsicion whcih was established with Abraham (Gen 17:10) by God when He instituted His covenant with Abraham.

This act produced the blood which ratified this first covenant according to Heb 9:18.

And this outward act was a shadow of the really teaching of Gods word, which is circumcision of the heart, because circumcision is a sign of one who has entered into a covenant with God, and  of the seed of Abraham,Who are called Jews.

If were not so, then God would never have caused the following truth to be inscribed into the Holy Scriptures;

Rom 2
17  Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18  And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19  And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20  An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21  Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22  Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23  Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24  For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25  For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26  Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27  And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Water Baptism in the NT, is a shadow of the real Baptism with the Holy Spirit spoken of by John the Baptist at (Jhn 1:33), the act of it does not save, but the individual who is water Baptized is making a public declaration of his FAITH in the Word of God.

Furthermore, that this FAITH is the real thing is evidence by the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, which is received by same FAITH which Abraham had
 by the children of the promise;

Rom 9
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rom 4
16  Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17  (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth (gives life to) the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

All who understrand the word of God, do so because it is given to them to underdstand and believe, this final verse sums up this matter, plainly.....

Col 2
10  And ye are  complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14  Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Notice at verse 11, that whether jew or gentile, those who come to faith in Jesus, are circumcised without hands. buried with Jesus in baptism and are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God, who raised Him from the dead, the Holy Spirit given to them as a deposit of the Faith they now possess of the FAITH of God. (Rom 3:3)


Blessings,

Ptero
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ollie
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« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2003, 03:50:10 PM »

Quote
Baptism is very important; no one who takes the Bible seriously can dispute it.
Quote
Not even Jesus Christ, who was baptised to fulfill all righteousness. Matthew 3: 13-17  

Quote
But:

1.   Is it necessary to be saved?
Mark 16:16.  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 
Quote
2.   Does it actually wash sins away?
Acts 22:16.  And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
 Acts 2:37.  Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
 38.  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 
Quote
3.   Is true faith needed for one to want baptism so it saves them?
Acts 2:37.  Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?.......
 Acts 2:41.  Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.......
Acts 2:47.  ......Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

       
Quote
No to all three.  It is not necessary because Christ took care of that.
Christ thinks it is necessary.  
       
Quote
It also doesn't wash sins away because it is a work opposite of faith.
Baptism is not of the law given to Moses, therefore not a work
Faith brings us to baptism.
Acts 8:26.  And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
 27.  And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
 28.  Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
 29.  Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
 30.  And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
 31.  And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
 32.  The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
 33.  In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
 34.  And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
 35.  Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
 36.  And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
 37.  And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Quote
Finally, Faith does not make one get baptised to get saved (it will never save anyways).  Lets say a believer does not want to get baptised, is he really a believer?  Like the statement, "Saved Will Work to be saved," no.  Believing that he's sins are washed away when baptised defeats the purpose of Christ's work on the Cross - never did believe Christ can.
Romans 6:1.  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
 2.  God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
 3.  Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
 4.  Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
 5.  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
 6.  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
 

Quote
Ps.  Since I have school, I need to be stern - No flood!  I answer verses one-by-one - no exceptions.  So don't give me a list.

agur  

Have a good day.
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« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2003, 04:29:07 PM »

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

For Christ sent me not to baptize  WOW!!!

Verse 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. WOW!!!

Ollie, Quote:
 
Baptism is very important; no one who takes the Bible seriously can dispute it.

A4C, Quote: Yes it is, only ONE Baptim Not 2, 3 or 4. Ephesians 4:5, NOT by human hands Col 2:11,12.
God The Holy Spirit is NOW the Baptizer, He Baptises the BELIEVER into Christ, which NOW is The C-H-U-R-C-H.
NO WATER.

Ollie, Quote:
Mark 16:16.  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

A4C, Quote: but he that believeth not shall be damned. NOTHING about NOT being Baptized.

Ollie, Quote:
Romans 6:1.  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2.  God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3.  Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4.  Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5.  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6.  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

This is the ONE Baptism Ephesians 4:5 with 1 Corithians 12:13
NO WATER.

HERE is a list of cults that do not follow Paul today because they require Israel's water baptism for salvation.... Jehovah's Witnesses , Catholics, Mormons, Church of Christ, and others.... who you going to believe? Men or God?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
(2 Timothy 2:15 KJV) Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


Have A GRRRRRRRRRRRREAT Day Grin



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« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2003, 05:34:30 PM »

"Mark 16:16.  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

A4C, Quote: but he that believeth not shall be damned. NOTHING about NOT being Baptized."

It says plenty for baptism for the believer.
Simply because believing brings one to baptism.

A non believer will not be baptised, so why tell Him/her not to be?
If one does not believe one will not be baptised being in disbelief.
One that does not believe will not do any of God's will, so it is not necessary to mention it when giving the consequences of not believing.
 It is a given that the non believer will not be baptised so it is not written. A non believer is damned already so why should God's word say that " he that believeth not" and is not baptised "shall be damned". Not believing damns
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« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2003, 05:44:34 PM »

"Mark 16:16.  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

A4C, Quote: but he that believeth not shall be damned. NOTHING about NOT being Baptized."

It says plenty for baptism for the believer.
Simply because believing brings one to baptism.

If one does not believe one will not be baptised being in disbelief.
One that does not believe will not do any of God's will, so it is not necessary to mention it when giving the consequences of not believing.
 It is a given that the non believer will not be baptised so it is not written. A non believer is damned already so why should God's word say that " he that believeth not" and is not baptised "shall be damned". Not believing damns

OK Bro, your not going to hell because you believe in water baptism. And I know I am NOT going to hell because I do NOT.

Ephesians 4:5 There is "one Lord, one faith, one baptism". Despite this truth many preachers and teachers insist on a multiplicity of baptisms. This insistence constitutes a slap in the face of God for it demeans the operation of God (Colossians 2:12) as being insufficient. We are baptized by God the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) and no ritual of man (though borrowed from God's earlier Hebrew program) can add anything to that.
There are some that would preach THREE baptisms, some TWO and some ONE for the current Church age.

Some would sprinkle, some pour. Some would immerse two times forward, once backward. Some baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit while others do so in the name of Jesus only. Some baptize infants and others would baptize adults only. Some will say that you are not saved unless water baptized while others say that baptism is a testimony only. How sad! What a blessing it is to understand that Paul's commission did not include the Hebrew water rite of baptism (1 Corinthians 1:17). How reassuring it is to know that we are "complete" in Christ and that man can add nothing to our position in Christ nor take away any of our spiritual blessings "in heavenly places in Christ."



Grace & Peace  Grin
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« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2003, 06:33:00 PM »

Mk 16
16    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

How is it, many are that are Baptised in water do not have assurance they are saved??

Is it because they are only baptized in water, and not with the Holy Gohst??

The emphasis on being Baptized in Mk 16, is in believing, not being baptized, therefore it is possible to be baptzed, and not be saved.

If this is the case, then water baptism is not the Baptism, refferred to in Eph 4:5.
 
If this is so, then water Baptism is not what produces salvation, no  matter how many times one is water baptized.

So then baptism is that which is done by the Spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.  (Rom 2:29)

So Jesus, is speaking of the real Baptism at this verse, and  not of water Baptism.

Petro
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« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2003, 07:47:37 PM »

Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.”

—James 1:22

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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2003, 01:43:37 AM »

Please answer me this one question: How is being baptized not a work of righteousness?
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« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2003, 12:20:56 PM »

Please answer me this one question: How is being baptized not a work of righteousness?


No one has disputed whether Baptism is or is not a work of righteousness...

However if this work (or any other work for that  matter) is counted for something which acquires or is counted for something towards salvation, then it is not of God..
Titus 3:5

Righteousness is an imputed gift, just as all other gifts given by the GRACE of God and  needed to be made a member of the Body of Christ.

If I would have posted the passage instead of focusing in on just one verse, this woulk have been clearer on my previous posts/


Rom 5
17  For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
18  Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19  For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

And only the rightous do works of righteousness, and the knowledge of it is given unto them, to know it.

And this very fact is indispuable;  

2 Pet 2
20  For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21  For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22  But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Righteousness is required to be Saved,  both are given to the believer and grasped by faith, by the promises found in the Word of God, it is the Hope of every person whom God has saved,  it can only be attained in the present life by living in the Spirit, which has been given also by God.

The Apostle Paul makes this clear at;

Phil 3
8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9  And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10  That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11  f by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12  Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13  Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14  I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15  Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16  Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
17  Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18  (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19  Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
20  For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21  Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Note verse 11, it is true As King David points to the blessedness  of those whom have "righteousness imputed to them without works which believe on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness"; these are the ones which shall be resurrected in the end because tyheir sisn and iniquities are forgiven them. (Rom 4:4-8)

Righteousness, is part of the whole armor of God which is supplied by Him, to His soldiers.  Eph 6:14

It is also a fruit of the Spirit, I dare say..Phil 1:11, Heb 12:11

The righteous become skilled in the use of the Word of God, since they excersice their sense to discern good and evil, by reason of its  use.  Heb 5:13-14

So if Baptism is a work of righteousnes, then it is only performed bhy those who have been made righteous;
and follows believing to the saving of the SOUL.

And this is the reason why Jesus said at;

MK 16
16   He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

It matters little if a person who does not believe is ever Baptized or not, the motions of going thru the act of  water baptism will produce nothing;

And my final point is that water baptism before being Baptized with the Holy Gohst, does not garauntee anything, either...

If it did, then all the infants who have ever been and are being baptized, would all come to FAITH, and the truth is, very little do..




Blessings,

Petro
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