Shroud of Turin image has a ponytail! so do I!

[Paul2]

    This is the Tremissis coin from Constantinople, AD 692 compared to the shroud. Look at the eyes on the coin, notice anything?






   Is the shroud an actual photograph of the Judge and Savior and creator for that matter of this world? Is this the cloth that Peter found lying in the tomb? Is this cloth a photographic testamonial of the resurrection of Jesus Christ?
I dare say I believe that it is! The question I have is "who" folded the cloth or "napkin" that wrapped his head and left it folded in the tomb by itself, and why was that cloth folded, and the other left laying there. If I was Peter I would have taken both to show to the other disciples. What did John "see" in that tomb that made him believe Jesus was resurrected before the scriptures were revealed to him? He didn't assume the body was stolen but he saw something and believed Jesus was resurrected.

      Who folded the "napkin" that wrapped Jesus head and placed it by itself away from the cloth lying there and why?

John 20: 4: So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
   5: And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
   6: Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
   7: And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
   8: Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

    There were others in the tomb before Peter and John. Angels were in the tomb. If the shroud of Turin is the photographic evidence of Jesus' resurrection and was His burial shroud then God the father would have known an image would be left. Did God the father want the image and photographic evidence to be on the shroud? Could God the Father have instructed angels to remove the "head napkin cloth" and to fold it and place it aside before the resurrection so the "photographic image" could be left without blocking out His face? During the resurrection did Jesus body pass through the cloth so it fell flat with the top falling against the bottom?
   Jesus could walk through walls and locked doors, could he not pass through a cloth? Who folded the "head napkin" and WHY?

   By the way, the body on the shroud of turin has a ponytail. Part of His beard is torn out. Scripture tells us that Jesus was not esteemed. Did he have long hair as a disgrace? I have long hair in a ponytail. Why? Because I believe Jesus did. I wear my hair as a disgrace of sorts. I've been offered $1,500 by my old jewish boss some years ago to cut my hair. He said it made me look like a Jesus freak. David Crosby wrote a song called "almost cut my hair"  and in the lyrics he says "Almost cut my hair, happened just the other day, its getting kind of long, could have said it was in my way, but I didn't and I wonder why, feel like letting my freak flag fly, and I feel like I owe it to someone..."and when I first became a true Christian I was listening to that song and I to felt I owed it to someone, Jesus, so I have long (clean) hair in a Steven Segal type ponytail and I wear it as a disgrace for Jesus. By the way, ever seen a statue of the minute man from Lexington/Concord, you know the revolutionary war? They had ponytails! Our founding fathers looked like hippies! That was the style. To them their hair wasn't long. For all you long hair haters out their, some of us long hairs wear our hair long because we believe Jesus did and we wear it as a disgrace to remind people to judge us on what comes out of our mouths and not the length of our hair. Some of you better be hoping Jesus decided to cut his hair with all the bad mouthing you do.

    Jesus approved of John the Baptist having long hair, where do you think Nazarites got their instructions? Samson got in all sorts of trouble when his hair was cut and God set the rules for nazarites. Well some people take their own personal oaths to God and some choice to do it by wearing their hair long, I'm one of them.
 
                                                        Paul2

[Saved_4ever]

Garbage, phoney, bunk etc.

[Paul2]

Garbage, phoney, bunk etc.

    How much research have you done? Nobodies been able to produce anything even close. The threads are dehydrated but only the top most fibers and theirs no color pigment on the cloth. Do "ALOT" of research and explain why.

[Saved_4ever]

Blah blah I've seen plenty.  The simple fact it was in the hands of nuns makes it null and void.

Jesus never took the Nazarene vow, obviously he drank of the fruit of the vine.

I love people that think long hair is OK.

1Co 11:14  Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

So now you think it's not a shame or that God changed his mind?  Or maybe even that Paul didn't know what he was talking about?

Samson also wore his hair in locks and if you are going to pretend to take the Nazarene vow I sure hope you are following it to the T else you need to shave your head completely.

[Tibby]

Haha, Sapph is right, you have shave you hear and burn the hair, I think.   I don't get why you didn't take 1500 to cut your hair a little shorter! Unless you know Martial Arts like Steven, the Segal-esque ponytail is a bit much.

[Symphony]

 
On the coin, Paul2, very interesting!  Thank you.

The shroud does present some very curious anomolies, for the scientific crowd.  BAR(Bib'l Arch'y Review)magazine did a cover article on it several years ago, focussing only on the pollen question:  Is the pollen embedded in the linen fibres from ancient Palestine??

Also, the image does seem virtually photographic.  How was that done??  So long ago.  I forget what the earliest date is that they can reliably authenticate the shroud to--whether it's 1700, 1200, or earlier.

And a very interesting point, Paul2--so you think the reason Peter didn't believe the body was stolen was b/c of the photographic evidense left on the shroud??

Dr. James Kennedy of the Coral Ridge Ministries(a strong supporter of Alabama's Chf. Justice Roy Moore, recently) gives a very stirring account of the Shroud, on audio tape.  

Pony tails.   Hmmm.  Yes, Segal is impressive with his, with the martial arts, and all that bone-cracking, snap-popping.  Really sort of a "Christ-figure", I saw him as, when Christ returns.  But then I found out Segal was, um.... well, with the family baby sitter....(ahem)...?   And some other "news" slightly tainted of...um...the Mafia(in real life--not the movies)??

Ponytails come across to me as just suspicious--that this person is trying to make a point.  Usually anyone who's trying to make a point, has an axe to grind.  If they have an axe to grind, then who's to say they aren't going to grind it on me??

I mean hair is hair.  Paul underlying point is purely practical--men are "laborers", long hair is a nuisance.  Didn't you just hear about that guy this summer, in CA(?), got his long hair caught in an amusement park ride??   Oh, I understand what happend there was horrible.

Practically, what's a man doing with long hair??  Other than a fashion statement.  And what are (Christian) men doing making fashion statements?  

Other than to keep your head warm(they say 40% of body heat exits an uncovered head)...

[Paul2]

Haha, Sapph is right, you have shave you hear and burn the hair, I think.   I don't get why you didn't take 1500 to cut your hair a little shorter! Unless you know Martial Arts like Steven, the Segal-esque ponytail is a bit much.

    I didn't want the $1500! I'm not for sale and neither is my hair!

    Let me explain a few things. I work with alot of young hippie types, and because I have long hair they listen to me. They see me as the wise old hippie. They can't relate to short haired business types or holier than thou Christian types. When was the last time you taught young long haired hippies about Jesus? One of my young friends converted, and went to India to do missionary work. Two of my friends are going on a pilgramage to Israel in November for 6 months. I had bible studies with these young hippie types in VW buses, camping with them, I worked with them shoulder to shoulder and I was their foreman. I reached out to people most Christians are afraid of or just plain ignored. I bought them bibles and hylite markers and showed them why I believe in Jesus. I taught them prophecy, doctrine, and now some of them are teachers. Try approaching a group of pot smoking hippies wearing a business suit with short hair and preaching to them, good luck! I came across as a "been there, done that" type without being judgmental and was excepted as the wise old elder who finally found truth. Paul said I become all things to all people to win them all. Well theres plenty of short haired holier than thou's out there but very few of them are evangelizing the new age hippie types. Oh I suppose some try but are they received and do they have results to show for their efforts. Many of my young friends have come to me and thanked me for taking the time to explain the bible and Jesus and admit that if I didn't look the way I did they wouldn't have listened. I have my own mission and Jesus knows my heart. To you I am a "shame" but to the people I have led to Jesus I am not. I seek crowns in heaven, not money or the praise of the "holier than thou" types that would never bother witnessing to long hairs.

    Its funny to me that so many people will quote the hair passage but in their Church women will speak, and preach.
They seem to forget the passage of women remaining silent in the Churches! Jesus uses me long hair and all. He died on the cross so that those with long hair could also receive salvation, and I bring to them the gospel, I buy them Bibles and study the bible with them so they will be able to defend their faith and witness to others. As Jesus said, let he without sin cast the first stone! Go try to convert some hippies to Christianity and come back when you have results.
    The world has enough holier than thou's but not enough evangelists that are willing to approach people they look down on. Jesus went to sinners, not to the temple where the "good" people were. You can't evangelise in a church, people their already know the gospel. Reach out to those who nobody else will preach to.

    By the way, nobody has tried to witness to me in 13 years, no not one. They must assume because I have a ponytail I must deserve to go to the lake of fire, that I'm unworthy of the Gospel. Isn't that nice of the short haired Christians out there? The only group that has witnessed to me was the Jehovah's witnesses, who teach lies instead of truth. The cults will try to convert long hairs but not many Christians do. Try witnessing to a long hair and start off telling them their hair is to long and is sinful, and critize everything they do and see how far you get. You will turn them off to the truth. Faith must come before repentance because without faith repentance is IMPOSSIBLE!

    You can explain to God when you get to heaven why you didn't bother trying to witness to the long haired people, me, I'll point to the long haired friends of mine before His throne
and explain that I thought they were worth it. God knows my heart and He knows your heart. Jesus died for sinners and we are all sinners, short haired sinners and long haired sinners, and even bald sinners. Seeing you can tell me to cut my hair you should condemn the next woman who speaks in church as well so you won't be a hypocrite.

    I wonder how many people will ignore me from now on seeing I have long hair, no matter what truth I put forth.

                                                                                                                                                       Paul2

[Paul2]

Pony tails.   Hmmm.  Yes, Segal is impressive with his, with the martial arts, and all that bone-cracking, snap-popping.  Really sort of a "Christ-figure", I saw him as, when Christ returns.  But then I found out Segal was, um.... well, with the family baby sitter....(ahem)...?   And some other "news" slightly tainted of...um...the Mafia(in real life--not the movies)??

Ponytails come across to me as just suspicious--that this person is trying to make a point.  Usually anyone who's trying to make a point, has an axe to grind.  If they have an axe to grind, then who's to say they aren't going to grind it on me??


Practically, what's a man doing with long hair??  Other than a fashion statement.  And what are (Christian) men doing making fashion statements?  

Other than to keep your head warm(they say 40% of body heat exits an uncovered head)...

    I'm not a Steven Segal fan, I was trying to explain that I'm not a dirty greasy hippie. I appear clean cut from the front because my hair is pulled back. I'm not making a fashion statement either. My hair works as a witnessing tool to long haired hippies that think to be a Christian one must be "perfect." If you tell someone that when they accept Jesus as savior they must change everything at once they won't accept Jesus. I let Jesus change their hearts. He will convict them Himself and lead them to repentance. If you try to get people to repent all things at once they will be turned off. Jesus can get the job of repentance done far better than I.
                                                    Paul2

[Saved_4ever]

:snore:  :sigh:  Excuses excuses, a plenty.

I guess because I have my head shaved I must be a holier than thou, business type.  Next excuse please.

[Heidi]

First of all, I believe the shroud is authentic. There are too many things about it that can't be explained as anything but the burial cloth of Christ. Especially the inverted image. I believe it is massive energy similar to what I experienced when I received the Holy Spirit. Most of the scientists believe that the image was made by some form of radiation.

As for the long hair issue, I do believe that Paul 2 is wearing his hair that way to make a point. But we all dress however we dress to make a point, whether it's to look clean-cut, sexy, unsexy, etc. I personally dress for my husband. I know he'd love me if i were bald, but I've decided i want to make it easier on him.

[Heidi]

I just want to add that I don't think that the image on the shroud showed up right away much as pictures don't develop until they're in the right atmosphere.

[Tibby]

Its funny to me that so many people will quote the hair passage but in their Church women will speak, and preach. They seem to forget the passage of women remaining silent in the Churches!

Ha, haha, ha! Right… Maybe you should spend less time with the Hippies, and more time in a CHURCH! Most churches do not have women preachers, many church DO that that Verse literally. Most of the people here in this board do! The vast majority of churches follow that verse.

Jesus uses me long hair and all. He died on the cross so that those with long hair could also receive salvation, and I bring to them the gospel, I buy them Bibles and study the bible with them so they will be able to defend their faith and witness to others. As Jesus said, let he without sin cast the first stone! Go try to convert some hippies to Christianity and come back when you have results.
    The world has enough holier than thou's but not enough evangelists that are willing to approach people they look down on. Jesus went to sinners, not to the temple where the "good" people were. You can't evangelise in a church, people their already know the gospel. Reach out to those who nobody else will preach to.

Stop make excuses! Hippie and “freaks” judge me all the time because I wear A&F or Old Navy, they call me a sell-out ,a prep. They don’t even know me. Don’t start on “the people of the church are to judgmental” crap! The People of the world are to judgmental! CHRISTIAN hippies are to judgmental! I’ve seen these “alternative Culture” outreaches, the workers, the people minister, all look down on me because I’m not wearing all black and fish *FISHSLAP* net shirts. I don’t have a Vertical industrial, so I must no be saved, I have bought into the ways of the World. To be honest, most non-saved freaks are fine with me, they get to know me, and they think I’m fine. It is the Christian ones who seem to shun me, thinking I can never save their non-Christian counterparts.


 

By the way, nobody has tried to witness to me in 13 years, no not one. They must assume because I have a ponytail I must deserve to go to the lake of fire, that I'm unworthy of the Gospel. Isn't that nice of the short haired Christians out there? The only group that has witnessed to me was the Jehovah's witnesses, who teach lies instead of truth. The cults will try to convert long hairs but not many Christians do. Try witnessing to a long hair and start off telling them their hair is to long and is sinful, and critize everything they do and see how far you get. You will turn them off to the truth. Faith must come before repentance because without faith repentance is IMPOSSIBLE!

Hey, here is an idea, maybe they see you as a Christian, they see you saving these hippies, and they know you are a Christian, so they don’t see a point in witnessing! Maybe they see the spirit of God in you ,and THAT is why they don’t witness to you. Why does it matter if they didn’t witness you to, are you TRYING to look like a sinner? Uh? You make a big deal about people not witnessing to you, it sounds to me like you seem to me that if you look like you do, and people don’t try to witness to you, it is because they see through the outer layer, and see a Man of God. Like all Sub-culture’s, all you are doing are looking for reasons to be offended!  

You can explain to God when you get to heaven why you didn't bother trying to witness to the long haired people, me, I'll point to the long haired friends of mine before His throne
and explain that I thought they were worth it. God knows my heart and He knows your heart. Jesus died for sinners and we are all sinners, short haired sinners and long haired sinners, and even bald sinners. Seeing you can tell me to cut my hair you should condemn the next woman who speaks in church as well so you won't be a hypocrite

Turning things around, how many Preps do you witness to? How many Yuppies? How many Marine-look alikes? How many hicks? Seems to me you have just as much to answer for as the Preps, Yuppies, Marine-look alikes, and hicks who didn’t witness to hippies.

[Tibby]

Here we go, the Sub-culture “No one understand me, they are all close-minded. The are to judgments to see that I’m right and they are wrong”


 

I didn't want the $1500! I'm not for sale and neither is my hair!

1500 dollar that could be used to feed starving children, or clothes cloth children is going to waste in you bosses bank account  because you have to much pride to cut something as trivial as your hair off. Maybe you could have shipped the 1500 off to your friend in India, help him buy a few bibles in one of the many languages spoken over there, but NO, God forbid you let them cut you constantly growing hair!

Its funny to me that so many people will quote the hair passage but in their Church women will speak, and preach. They seem to forget the passage of women remaining silent in the Churches!

Ha, haha, ha! Right… Maybe you should spend less time with the Hippies, and more time in a CHURCH! Most churches do not have women preachers, many church DO that that Verse literally. Most of the people here in this board do! The vast majority of churches follow that verse.

Jesus uses me long hair and all. He died on the cross so that those with long hair could also receive salvation, and I bring to them the gospel, I buy them Bibles and study the bible with them so they will be able to defend their faith and witness to others. As Jesus said, let he without sin cast the first stone! Go try to convert some hippies to Christianity and come back when you have results.
    The world has enough holier than thou's but not enough evangelists that are willing to approach people they look down on. Jesus went to sinners, not to the temple where the "good" people were. You can't evangelise in a church, people their already know the gospel. Reach out to those who nobody else will preach to.

Stop make excuses! Hippie and “freaks” judge me all the time because I wear A&F or Old Navy, they call me a sell-out ,a prep. They don’t even know me. Don’t start on “the people of the church are to judgmental” crap! The People of the world are to judgmental! CHRISTIAN hippies are to judgmental! I’ve seen these “alternative Culture” outreaches, the workers, the people minister, all look down on me because I’m not wearing all black and fish *FISHSLAP* net shirts. I don’t have a Vertical industrial, so I must no be saved, I have bought into the ways of the World. To be honest, most non-saved freaks are fine with me, they get to know me, and they think I’m fine. It is the Christian ones who seem to shun me, thinking I can never save their non-Christian counterparts.


 

By the way, nobody has tried to witness to me in 13 years, no not one. They must assume because I have a ponytail I must deserve to go to the lake of fire, that I'm unworthy of the Gospel. Isn't that nice of the short haired Christians out there? The only group that has witnessed to me was the Jehovah's witnesses, who teach lies instead of truth. The cults will try to convert long hairs but not many Christians do. Try witnessing to a long hair and start off telling them their hair is to long and is sinful, and critize everything they do and see how far you get. You will turn them off to the truth. Faith must come before repentance because without faith repentance is IMPOSSIBLE!

Hey, here is an idea, maybe they see you as a Christian, they see you saving these hippies, and they know you are a Christian, so they don’t see a point in witnessing! Maybe they see the spirit of God in you ,and THAT is why they don’t witness to you. Why does it matter if they didn’t witness you to, are you TRYING to look like a sinner? Uh? You make a big deal about people not witnessing to you, it sounds to me like you seem to me that if you look like you do, and people don’t try to witness to you, it is because they see through the outer layer, and see a Man of God. Like all Sub-culture’s, all you are doing are looking for reasons to be offended!  

You can explain to God when you get to heaven why you didn't bother trying to witness to the long haired people, me, I'll point to the long haired friends of mine before His throne
and explain that I thought they were worth it. God knows my heart and He knows your heart. Jesus died for sinners and we are all sinners, short haired sinners and long haired sinners, and even bald sinners. Seeing you can tell me to cut my hair you should condemn the next woman who speaks in church as well so you won't be a hypocrite

Turning things around, how many Preps do you witness to? How many Yuppies? How many Marine-look alikes? How many hicks? Seems to me you have just as much to answer for as the Preps, Yuppies, Marine-look alikes, and hicks who didn’t witness to hippies.

[Sapphire W34P0N]

Haha, Sapph is right, you have shave you hear and burn the hair, I think.

I do not wish to join this discussion, I just want to know what I have to do with this...

[Tibby]

I was writing two posts at once, one about/to you, and this one. I meant to type “saved” but I mixed posts and typed Sapph.  Everyone got the jest of what I was saying, and people had already quoted it, so I didn’t bother editing it.