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Author Topic: Back and worse than ever (spritually)...  (Read 2795 times)
brad5
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« on: November 16, 2006, 04:38:15 PM »

Some of you may remember me from several months ago, but most probably don't...

Anyway, I was a doubter/seeker back when I first came here, but I soon became admittedly closed-minded to those doubts and have since found that nothing eased the doubts. Instead, I just found myself saying (in my heart) "Everything is argued... so how do I know this is correct? ...I don't."

And since then, the doubts just became completely destructive. My morals are all messy, I'm genuinely not sure if there's a God, I don't fear Hell for some reason (probably because I'm genuinley uncertain that it even exists and so I'm just thinking of the "idea" of Hell rather than the actual place), and whenever I try to do what the Bible says is right, I find myself feeling imprisoned because I don't really "want" to do it... and as I result, I find myself messing up and within minutes doing things that the Bible says is evil...

The thing is, me knowing what is morally-correct is just intellectually, and from the mind. If I can be honest, it doesn't even come from my heart. Instead, I find myself remembering what it was like when God was in my life (I used to be a Christian, but fell away), and intellectually I miss how life was back then... but in my heart, I also don't mind how life is now, but intellectually I do mind and wish God would come back to me. That might sound confusing, but hopefully it makes sense...

So I guess, in other words, it feels like I have a grip on God, but He doesn't have a grip on me (which is what I was trying to get at with the whole thing about how I intellectually miss God, but in my heart I don't mind life how it is now).

I don't really have any questions... just wondering if anyone can help/pray/give advice/etc...

Thanks in advance.

-Confused Brad Huh
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2006, 05:17:13 PM »

Hi brad5. I'm glad that you have come back here.

First of all you said that you wished that God would come back to you. God has never left. He never leaves us nor forsakes us. That is a promise that He has made to us and God never breaks a promise. It is us that might slide away from Him. Getting right with God is the way to start. Remembering what God has done for us. The wondrous gift that He has given to us all, the gift of Salvation, His wondrous act of total love that He did for us on the cross.

I would like to say more but I have to run right now. My prayers are with you and I hope that you will stick around so that we can talk some more.

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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2006, 07:58:36 PM »

Hello Brad5,

Welcome back. If you were once truly saved, I would like to echo what Pastor Roger said. GOD doesn't leave us. We can ruin our fellowship with GOD by letting the things of the world be the priorities in our lives, but GOD is still with us. You must know that our GOD is a jealous GOD, and HE punishes and chastises HIS children who exalt the things of this world over HIM. For this reason, all Christians are punished and chastised numerous times in this short life. We are drawn closer and closer to what HE wants, and for some of us it takes almost a 2 x 4 between the eyes every now and then.

If you've ever truly been a child of GOD, nothing else will make any sense, and you will search for a replacement that doesn't exist. With the same "IF", you will never be happy until you rededicate your life to CHRIST and renew your fellowship. You will be miserable because you are ignoring the Holy Spirit of GOD in your heart who is continually telling you what's right.

I will definitely be praying for you. My suggestion is that you also pray, read your Bible, and renew your fellowship with GOD. If you really weren't saved, maybe you are feeling the conviction of your sins and thinking about asking CHRIST to be the Lord over your life. In either case, the only real answer is JESUS CHRIST, and you aren't going to be happy until you make things right between you and GOD.

Brad, please feel free to continue this discussion, and maybe others will want to join in with us. We can start from the very beginning if you want to.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 5:17-18 NASB  For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.  So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
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carsncandy
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2006, 08:06:44 PM »

Hey there Brad5.
I was thinking about what you've posted.....
Most of the people I know have felt like you do now.
I really agree w/Roger, God has NEVER left you, you turned away. Okay, so turn back.
There are times in my life I have seemed alone. But what I see here for you is HOPE. When I feel alone or am struggling or going through a season of dry times, it"s what I "know" that keeps me walking the walk. We walk by FAITH, not by what's moral. I am a sinner.

I don't think that how you "feel in your heart" has a whole lot to do with the TRUTH. The truth is arguable but still the truth. The truth is, HE LOVES YOU !
Go ahead call to God.....(He's waiting anyway). I know His forgiveness is bigger than ANYTHING you can do. He loves you the same as before. You changed He didn't so your new walk w/the Lord won't be as it once was, it'll be better, different and  better.
Since  you do "know" in your mind, make a choice for God. Not for God's sake but your own. After all He didn't go to the cross for His sake but for yours.
As for doing what's right, let Him sort all that out. Call out, ask him to prove Himself, HE WILL!
Peace brother. I'm praying.
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Isaiah 40:31 but those who hope in the Lord will renew thier strength. They wil soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2006, 11:25:43 PM »

Hey brad5,

I cannot say wether you fell away or not or wether you were truly saved to begin with, given this medium of communication.  One thing I can say for sure is that He is obviously still calling you and drawing you to His Son Jesus.  That is what I see in your plea for help.

#1 - everyone here is praying for you to put yourself aside and receive Jesus as your Savior.

#2 - look around and think of all the wonders our scientists cannot explain away - on the earth and in the heavens - and consider the existence of a loving, purposeful, creative God who made all we see but punishes wrongdoers for their unbelief while being merciful at the same time.  The natural disasters we frequently see are a result of the initial disobedience of the first Adam - not God's plan for mankind.  Simple sowing and reaping - and we all are doing the reaping.

#3 - read the 3rd chapter of John again and do what it says.  In another place He tells us: "... without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." Hebrews 11:6  NKJV

When you truly believe that He is - that He exists - He will reward you with eternal life, the gift of faith, and forgive those sins that weigh you down so badly as soon as you ask for forgivness.  Your exercise of that God given faith will please Him - your seeking will be rewarded and you will enter the Kingdom of God - right here  - right now.


Now, be aware, brad5, that you have frustrated satan again and he will make lots of effort to regain your heart.  Find strong Christian brothers and sisters right away - tell them of your decision - pray and worship with them - avoid your old friends (?) and hangouts and live a pure life.

You will feel the difference from the new beginning.
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"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.  John 5:24  NKJV
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2006, 11:39:32 PM »

Hey Brad I also agree with Pastor Roger, God doesn't leave us we leave God.

One way for you to know is a thread here.  This isn't by us, but archaeologist.  This link is Recent Archaeological Finds  <---backs up, what we know to be true.  Re-discoveries of some of the places, artifacts in the Bible.
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brad5
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2006, 03:50:53 AM »

Thank you everyone.

However, I found these links and the scary thing is that they seem to describe me better than I did in my above posts.

http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/GillsExpositionoftheBible/gil.cgi?book=heb&chapter=006&verse=004&next=005&prev=003

http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/GillsExpositionoftheBible/gil.cgi?book=heb&chapter=006&verse=005&next=006&prev=004

http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/GillsExpositionoftheBible/gil.cgi?book=heb&chapter=006&verse=006&next=007&prev=005

http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=heb+10:26,27

http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/GillsExpositionoftheBible/gil.cgi?book=heb&chapter=010&verse=026&next=027&prev=025

My knowledge is in fact 'of the head' and not of the heart, and I do continue to willfully sin, and my faith that I did have (looking back on it) seems counterfeit... so I'm bothered by this, and all of this started because I fell into the mindset of "It can all be argued"... and I'm a rather closed-minded person, especially now -- but I thought it wasn't possible to commit an unpardonable sin? I'm confused. Can someone elaborate? Can I still be saved? Please help. Thank you.

-Brad  Huh
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2006, 04:00:40 AM »

Hello Brad,

I'll do the best I can to answer your questions and help you any way that I can.

There is only one sin that can't be pardoned and forgiven in this life - rejecting JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour. All of this is possible ONLY because of JESUS dying on the Cross for us.

Please feel free to ask anything you want to, and we'll try to help you. First, the biggest question is - have you already accepted JESUS CHRIST as your Lord and Saviour? If you don't know, that's OK. We can start any way that you want to.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:16-18 NASB  The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2006, 04:15:06 AM »

Hello Brad,

I just went to the first link you gave us. I would quickly tell you that the portion of Scripture you chose is very difficult, requiring a lengthy and very complex study.

With the problems you are telling us about, I suggest that you stay away from the most complex portions of Scripture and concentrate on what will help you. The first link deals with Hebrews and some really hard material that is misunderstood by many people. It's a contrast between Law and Grace, and one must study much of Hebrews with a heavy foundation and understanding of Mosaic Law, Jewish Traditions, Levitical Law, and then make the contrast between that and JESUS and the CROSS. Some of the New Testament Churches did have heavy foundations in Law that didn't go away quickly. You should also know that many Jews didn't accept JESUS as Messiah and King. These conflicts and very hard portions of Scripture aren't going to help you with your current problem. They are so difficult that they will probably just cause confusion.

I suggest Galatians, Ephesians, and Romans which all deal heavily with what JESUS did on the Cross and what HIS perfect Sacrifice means. Forget about the Law right now and concentrate on the Grace and Love of GOD - JESUS and the Cross - forgiveness by the Blood of JESUS - and finding out whether or not you are Saved. Your answers are with JESUS - not Moses.
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2006, 05:21:50 PM »

Brad,

You were correct in stating that what you are going through is in the head and not the heart.  It is the head that you are letting lead you. 

You mentioned you remember times when you were not walking in sin.  And you said that you missed how life was back then.  You were confused in what you did state when you said in your heart you don't mind how life is now.  I say that because in previous paragraph you mention that it is all messed up.  Your mind has no emotions, it is purely thought.  Your heart is your emotions.  It could not be messed up from an intellectual aspect because "messed up" is purely subjective which is an emotional response.

Now not to continue with semantics on the terms used let us just leave it at that.  But since it is your mind that is enjoying the things of today you can still feel the tug of God in your conscience because you recognize that it is messed up.  Your moral fabric which God created is tugging at you.  But if you sit back and listen to your thoughts.  Truly be given a situation and sit back and listen to yourself you will find a couple of things.  One side of you will sit there and it will be like those cartoons.  A part of you will already feel guilty for the thought.  A part of you will have selfish tons in it.  You will hear thoughts such as "I", "my", "mine", etc.  They will be purely focused on you and nothing else. 

Those are thoughts brought in by satan to keep you oppressed.  They are hard to resist but you have two items to help with.  A shield of faith to defend yourself and a sword of the Word of God to strike out at Satan with.  It is not good enough to simply sit and defend yourself.  You must strike out with faith and knowledge of the Word of God. 

And your comments about "it feels like I have a grip on God, but He doesn't have a grip on me" are way off.  God always has a grip on you.  He just wants you to let Him have control...complete trust in Him.  The phrase I goes away and it is all He in your actions.  You do not have a grip on God or you would not be doing the things you are talking about.  But always remember that no matter where you are or what you are doing, Jesus Christ is right there with you. 
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Sincerely
Brother Jerry

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I am unlike most fathers.  What I would like my children to have more of is crowns to lay at Jesus feet.
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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2006, 06:58:42 PM »

Hi Brad,

My prayers are with you.  Lots of great advice here! The first thing I thought of when I read your post was the complicated matter of it, or so it seems to me.  I think the fact that you are questioning what your doing is a pretty good indication that the Lord is trying to communicate with you.  Go ahead and ask him all the really tough questions that are laid upon your mind, why you are experiencing the confusion, and why you feel so distant.  (Knock and the door will open, seek and ye shall find!) I'll pray you will find what your looking for.

Peace to you and may you look to the one who is the only one who knows how many hairs are on your head, and how many breaths you took while sleeping this past evening.

-Am-
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2006, 08:45:20 AM »

Thank you everyone.

Quote
There is only one sin that can't be pardoned and forgiven in this life - rejecting JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour. All of this is possible ONLY because of JESUS dying on the Cross for us.
I've always wondered... if someone comes in contact with God, understands it, and then rejects it then, is that the unpardonable sin? Or is it if we continue to reject it until we physically die? "Rejecting Jesus Christ as saviour" sounds more like the early one, but I thought we had unlimited chances until the day we physically die.

So... which one is it, if you know?

Thanks again.
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2006, 09:00:59 AM »

Brad you are correct in that it is if we reject Christ unto our physical death.  Our one chance is the chance we  have right now in this life.  there are no second lives that we have a chance to accept Christ.  The unpardonable sin is rejecting the free gift of salvation in this life.
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Sincerely
Brother Jerry

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I am unlike most fathers.  What I would like my children to have more of is crowns to lay at Jesus feet.
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2006, 02:00:11 PM »

Thank you everyone.
I've always wondered... if someone comes in contact with God, understands it, and then rejects it then, is that the unpardonable sin? Or is it if we continue to reject it until we physically die? "Rejecting Jesus Christ as saviour" sounds more like the early one, but I thought we had unlimited chances until the day we physically die.

So... which one is it, if you know?

Thanks again.

Hello Brad,

Faith in JESUS CHRIST and what HE did for us on the Cross is what Saves us. Beyond this saving faith is yielding to CHRIST in our daily lives, growing stronger in CHRIST, and wanting to gladly serve HIM.

The joy of a Christian becomes more full as they grow in the strength of CHRIST and start yielding to HIM. We actually have a fellowship with HIM and other Brothers and Sisters in CHRIST. Some things we do make this fellowship stronger, and some things we do harm or reduce our fellowship in CHRIST.

Brother, maybe you are describing a time in your life where you are not yielded to CHRIST, and that is making you unhappy. Having a bad time in your life does not mean that you have lost Salvation, but it would mean that you are unhappy and feeling empty because you aren't experiencing the level of fellowship you once had. Brother, we're trying to understand what you are going through. It's obvious that you are unhappy. Are you in a bad time or a time of rebellion against GOD in your life? If so, you won't be happy again until you yield to CHRIST and rededicate your life to HIM. This would not be a second Salvation, as there is no second Salvation. This would simply be you recognizing that you are unhappy because you aren't yielded to CHRIST and living for HIM.

Brad, many portions of Scripture start with something like, "these things I write that your joy might be more full." These areas of Scripture usually contain instructions about how Christians can be happy and enjoy the riches of CHRIST in our lives. I'm beginning to think that you are describing a bad time in your life where you are not yielded to GOD. If so, this would be a matter of prayer and asking GOD to help you turn your life around in a direction that will please HIM. I definitely think that you need some time in prayer and thought about your life right now. In the meantime, many of us will be praying for you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Colossians 3:15-16 NASB  Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful. Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
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brad5
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« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2006, 05:36:36 PM »

Well I just read The Bible Answer Book, specifically Chapter 4, which is titled "How can I be Certain that I've Not Committed the Unforgiveable Sin?"

In it, the author says that the unforgiveable sin is indeed a continuous ongoing rejection of Christ. However, he also says:

"Furthermore, those who have commited the unpardonable sin have no godly regrets. As Paul emphasizes in the book of Romans, they not only continue in their evil ways, but approve of others who do so as well. (Romans 1:32)"

So this leads me to believe, that we do have a limit to how long we can reject Christ. Otherwise, how can a man be alive to display his irregrets (which indicate that he's commited the unpardonable sin, and yet he's still alive)?

This brings me back to what I said in the posts with all those links. I still willfully sin, and my knowledge and care seem to be "of the head" and not of the heart. I mean... when I'm not actively thinking about God, I don't really care. But when I'm thinking about God, all I'm thinking about is what it was like when I wasn't walking in sin... as I said in the first post:

Quote
but in my heart, I also don't mind how life is now, but intellectually I do mind and wish God would come back to me.

In other words, my care seems to be of the mind, and not of the heart... so does that mean my care isn't genuine? And futhermore, does that mean that I've committed the unpardonable sin?

 Huh

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