The Doctrine of Pastor Teacher......

[Soldier4Christ]

They are comfortable in their own way, without exploring the way God meant for all christians to comprehend His words.  For I know and millions of others (that follow this teaching) know, that this IS exactly the way the Lord meant for ALL of His children to know the word, and it is all because of our pastor teachers years and years of acedemic learning that have brought us to this conclusion.  This is the ONLY way, just like faith, it is something you know deep inside that our souls are unable to express.

Sister this is where we will have to disagree because I have seen the power of the spirit in peoples hearts and minds, especially in those that are educationally handicapped. That is restricting the Holy Spirit with man made absolutes.

[Amorus]

Quote from: linssue55 on Today at 10:09:54 AM
Yes I do understand what you are saying, what I am trying to say is I do not, nor will ever believe what you guys believe regarding pastor teachers, I know what the bible say's all about them.  I have seen both sides of the coin, and I know which side is real and true.  There is a reason for acedemic training and teachings, until you have listened to what I have listened to you cannot say, for the proof is in the writings, the proof is in the teachings.  I ran across this very same subject matter with christians for years, and I just say to myself "They do not understand!"   That is where I leave it.  It is up to every christian to decide for themselves.  I know someone that went to seminary for 3 years, and to this day he still say's, "What I have learned form just one tape (ICE) is more than what I have learned in the 3 years in seminary."  They did not teach ICE.  This was 20 years ago for this person, and we are both still under the same ministry.  I knew this 70 year old man that started on the tapes, he has always been a christian, and he said, "I have found the truth, the real truth after all of these years and now I walk around in utter happiness like I never have before.  I had no idea what I had been missing." I have dozens of these.  It is impossible for people to understand what  I have been trying to say, they are stuck in their old ways, as tradition may have it. 

They are comfortable in their own way, without exploring the way God meant for all christians to comprehend His words.  For I know and millions of others (that follow this teaching) know, that this IS exactly the way the Lord meant for ALL of His children to know the word, and it is all because of our pastor teachers years and years of acedemic learning that have brought us to this conclusion.  This is the ONLY way, just like faith, it is something you know deep inside our soul but are unable to express it. Nothing will ever change my mind

Grace and Peace to you......


Hello Linssue,
Seems like your an academic.   I'm confused by some of what you said in your last reply.  Are you saying that if Pastors do not teach by the ICE method, then they are not teaching correctly?  If God meant for all christians to comprehend His words only one way "(without exploring the way God meant for all christians to comprehend HIs words) (this IS exactly the way the Lord meant for all his children to know the word)" then what would be the point of prayer, reading the scripture and applying it to my own life struggles and happines? Why should I fall on my knees and praise Jesus when I could simply go to this person who had years and years of academic training and get my answer?  Since you are a theologian you will understand what I'm saying when I ask... would this not fall under the category "Appeal to the man?"  Years and years of academic study can give you knowledge, can make you feel secure in your answers............but it can not give you experience, experience that comes from the grace of our Lord!  Pro 3:7  Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.  Some of the best teachers in the world have been children, not sure they would understand the ICE concept! LUKE 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure."    Thanks for allowing me to post my opinion and for clarifying what you are saying. I'm one person who isn't affraid of what they don't understand, so please, in reading my response, do not assume that you can lump me in with groupings of common bodies of people that you have referred to in your previous posts...Thanks an aweful bunch! Blessings and love to you!
Your brother in Christ
-Am-

[Soldier4Christ]

I'm one person who isn't affraid of what they don't understand, so please, in reading my response, do not assume that you can lump me in with groupings of common bodies of people that you have referred to in your previous posts...

Yes, I question that also since I am currently going through this material. I am definitely not afraid of it although I am now seriously starting to question the teachings that go with it.

Such as :

We believe that the Bible, composed of 66 canonical books in their original languages, is the inspired, inerrant and infallible Word of God.

This would be to say that the KJV, NIV, ASV ......... are all not the word of God. I find a serious problem with this according to the teachings of the Bible.

[Amorus]

Yes, I question that also since I am currently going through this material. I am definitely not afraid of it although I am now seriously starting to question the teachings that go with it.

Careful PR!  That just might make you a theologian!. LOL.....  As I'm re-reading this material, it should be a debate on theological application, not what the scripture defines as Pastor/Teacher, and I think that is what linssue is getting at.  I do believe that there is more going on here then meets the eye.  We shall see where this leads us and may the light of the Lord guide this message to be a blessing to all who read it!  That those whose thoughts shall fall upon it may see that the disciples of the Lord do in fact love one another, even when they question and disagree, but in the end are only trying to get closer to the Lord!

[Soldier4Christ]

Careful PR!  That just might make you a theologian!. LOL..... 

  LOL  ....  nothing wrong with being a theologian as long as we keep our eyes on the most important thing. The main message that Jesus came to earth to deliver to us all  .... The Gospel.

As I'm re-reading this material, it should be a debate on theological application, not what the scripture defines as Pastor/Teacher, and I think that is what linssue is getting at.  I do believe that there is more going on here then meets the eye. 

That may be very true.

We shall see where this leads us and may the light of the Lord guide this message to be a blessing to all who read it!  That those whose thoughts shall fall upon it may see that the disciples of the Lord do in fact love one another, even when they question and disagree, but in the end are only trying to get closer to the Lord!

Amen!

[Amorus]

LOL  ....  nothing wrong with being a theologian as long as we keep our eyes on the most important thing. The main message that Jesus came to earth to deliver to us all  .... The Gospel.

Well said! 

[linssue55]

This entire chapter is of great value........

Proverbs

Chapter 03
{Chapter 3 - What David Taught Solomon}
{Principal from Deuteronomy 6:6-9: Parents Should Teach their Children Doctrine}
{Verses 1:10 - the Wages of Doctrine - David to Solomon}
1~~My son,
forget not my law/doctrine;
but let your heart/'right lobe'
keep/guard my commandments/precepts/
'categories of doctrines' {mitzvah}.

2~~For length of days,
and 'years of life'/long life,
and prosperity/peace/'inner happiness' . . .
they {the 'precepts of doctrines' in your soul}
shall add to you.

{Note: Remember God's perfect timing. It is not necessarily a long life as we think of it, but from God's viewpoint, a full life. One that is abundant and lived under inner happiness.}

3a~~Do not let mercy/'grace in action' {checed}
and doctrine/truth {'emeth} leave you.

3b~~Bind them about your neck.

{Note: Many people carried their signet rings around the neck - so doctrine is "God's signet ring" by which we cash God's checks.}

3c~~Write them upon the "tablets of your heart/'right lobe' ".

{Note: means to study doctrine, take notes, review the notes
and metabolize the doctrine in the thinking part of your soul.}

4~~So {a result}
shall you find grace/favor {chen}
and good understanding {towb sekel}
  {about the will/design/plan of God}
in the sight of 'Elohiym/Godhead
and {in the sight of} man.

{Verses 5-6: Doctrine is the basis of Divine Guidance}
5a~~Trust {batach} in Jehovah/God
with all your 'right lobe'/heart.


5b~~And do not lean
on your 'own doctrine'/'human viewpoint thinking' {biynah}.

{Note: Batach refers to the 'Faith Rest Technique'. Originally it was a wrestler's term - to 'body slam your troubles to God'. We all start with 'human viewpoint'. From the bible, we learn 'divine viewpoint'. Lean on the Lord and His Word. Then you will know how to Walk in the Righteous Ways of God.}

6~~In all of your Ways . . .
know {yada`} Him {God},
therefore, He shall level {yashar} your paths'.

{Note: This means that doctrine is paramount in your life when you know God. And how do you 'know God?' . . . by knowing His Thinking - which is in written form today - means to study bible doctrine. Finally, without God you have mountains in your paths - He will cut the barrier down to your size.}

{Verses 7-8: Protection from Mental Attitude Sins}
7a~~Be not 'wise' {chakam} in your own eyes.

{Note: This is an idiom for pride and arrogance - and the whole string of mental attitude sins.}

7b~~Respect/'Be in awe of' Jehovah/God.
  {principal of 'Occupation with Christ'}

7c~~And depart from 'the evil'.
  {the Spirit filled life - salvation, rebound when necessary, take in
  doctrine, apply it to life - overcomes evil, which here is
  emphasizing your own 'old sin nature'}

8a~~It shall 'lead to a healthy body'.
  {idiom: literally: 'health to your navel'}

8b~~And 'strength in your body'.
  {idiom again: literally: 'marrow to your bones'}.

{Note: The absence of arrogance and other mental attitude sins protects the physical body as well as your spiritual condition.}

{Verses 9-10: Doctrine Motivates Giving}
9~~Glorify {kabad} Jehovah/God with your substance {hown},
and with the firstfruits of all your increase.

{Note: There is no glory if your free will is not involved - you must want to give because He gave FIRST. The word INCREASE is the key. The only reason any believer ever 'increases' is because of God!}

{Note: The verse does not say 'tithes'. Tithing is NOT giving - it is taxation and is not a part of spiritual giving. Taxation was for believer and unbeliever alike in Israel. So 'tithes' was closer to our Income Tax situation today. Churches have NO RIGHT to ask you for a certain percentage! You give as God has graced you! And, if you are not a believer, you have no right to give! Spiritual giving is a PRIVILEGE for believers only and the amount is between the believer and the Lord and is no one else's business - period! They ask for a percentage out of ignorance and those who pay . . . pay out of ignorance of bible doctrine. Ignorance plus ignorance does not equal wisdom.}

(cont)

[linssue55]

10~~So shall your barns be filled with plenty {material prosperity},
and your presses shall burst out with new wine.
  {two idioms for business prosperity}

{Verses 11-20: Blessings of Grace}
{Verses 11-12: First Blessing of Grace is Discipline}
{Quoted in Hebrews Chapter 12:5}
11a~~My son,
do not reject the discipline of Jehovah/God.

11b~~Therefore, do not loath His punishment.

12~~For whom Jehovah/God loves
He judges {yakach} . . .

even as a father to the son in whom He delights {ratsah}.

{Note: How does God judge us? He judges by punitive actions. God treats us in grace even when He disciplines us. The very fact you are alive and suffering is Grace. If He gave any of us what we deserved, we would be dead and not hurting anymore!}

{Proverbs Chapter 3: 13-18 See Revelation Chapter 2:7}
3:13~~Happinesses . . . to the man who finds wisdom

and the man that gains understanding {of doctrine} {tabuwn}.

{Note: Wisdom here is chokmah and would be epignosis in the Greek. Happiness STARTS with understanding doctrine! There are TWO types of happiness - 1) Inward - inner happiness and 2) Overt happiness. Both bound up in one package - doctrine in your soul}

14~~For 'its profit'/'the acquisition of it' {cachar}
  {the 'it' is wisdom - which is the only knowledge that means
  anything - God's Divine Viewpoint} . . .

is better than the profit/acquisition of money . . .

and its gain {t@buw'ah} . . . than fine gold.
  {believers should seek to gain doctrine, like most people seek
  to gain Gold!}

{Verses 15-18: Doctrine is from God's Grace}
15a~~She {doctrine} is more precious than jewels/rubies {paniyn}.
  {not only a sign of wealth but of enjoyment of the things from
  wealth}

15b~~And nothing
  {no detail of life - healthy, money, pleasure, success, popularity,
  loved ones}
can compare to her {bible doctrine}.

{Note: You can wipe out all details of life and still have happiness if you have the capacity for happiness in your life. But without the capacity for happiness that comes from doctrine, you will not be happy with any or all of these things.}

16a~~Long life is in her right hand.
  {concept of a FULL life as well as a long life. Doctrine can be the
  basis of long life - but it will be the basis for a full, happy,
  contented life.}

16b~~And in her {doctrine's} left hand are riches and honor.
  {You always get the right hand. But sometimes, you get the left
  hand 'in time' also. This refers to riches and rewards in time by
  advancing to spiritual maturity. There will also be rewards in
  eternity future for the spiritually mature believer.}

17a~~Her {Doctrine's} Ways are pleasant ways.

17b~~And her paths
are pleasantness/prosperity/'mental stability' {no`am}.

{See Revelation Chapter 2:7}
18a~~ She {Doctrine} is a tree of life
to them that lay hold of her.
  {Those who study and retain doctrine}

18b~~'And happy are all that hold her'/'Receiving inner happiness . . .
 the one who hangs on to her {doctrine}'.
  {Those with doctrine resident in the soul}

{Note: The tree of life in the garden is prohibited after the fall. Now doctrine is the tree of life. The key to happiness. The secret to happiness in this life is to 'eat of the tree of life' - resident and function in the Divine Dynasphere.}

{Verses 19-20: The Plan of God from Grace}
19a~~Jehovah/God by wisdom
  {Wisdom is 'His Thinking' - 'His Viewpoint' - 'His Word' - and the
  Word became Flesh - Jehovah here is Jesus Christ - and it refers
  to His Thinking - He 'thought' and the Earth came into existence}
has established/'laid the foundation of' the Earth.

19b~~By understanding,
He has established the heavens.

{Note: The universe's creation was the mental operation of His mind - His Omniscience combined then with his Omnipotence and the universe was created - and we have His Mind in writing - bible doctrine.}

20~~By His knowledge {the Omniscience of Jesus Christ}
the waters are divided
and the clouds drop down the dew.
  {Two idioms for prosperity under an agricultural society - rain -
  but what is the source of this prosperity? The thinking of God.}

[linssue55]

{Verses 21-35: Impact of Bible Doctrine}
{Verses 21-22: Importance of Application of Doctrine
  - David to Solomon}
21a~~My son
let not them {principals of bible doctrine}
depart from your eyes.

{Note: The 'eyes' have to do with perception and application of doctrine.}

21b~~Keep sound wisdom {tuwshiyah}
and discretion/'common sense wisdom'/concentration.
  {m@zimmah - means focusing your thinking on 'something of
  value'}

22a~~So shall they {principals of doctrine}
be life unto your soul {nephesh}.

{Note: The real life of your soul is bible doctrine - it is more important than the air you breathe}

22b~~And grace/favor {chen} around your neck.
  {like jewelry - it hangs around you like a beautiful necklace - grace
  attracts}

{Note: If you know doctrine, then you know that doctrine is your life. The only way to know God and His Character and His Essence and His Mind, His attitude, His concept, His plan, is by studying doctrine. Without doctrine 'love' is superficial. To really love someone, you need to know the real person first - their thinking. So if you have doctrine, God and His Word is your life - all other things are the 'details of your life'.}

{Verses 23-26: Doctrine Produces Confidence}
23a~~Then you shall Walk in your Way
'with confidence'/securely {betach}.

{Note: The 'Walk' is step by step through life - the confidence comes with knowledge of God's viewpoint.}

{Note: Confidence is NOT a sin! Many will try to make it seem 'haughty' when someone shows confidence. They are applying their sins and weaknesses to the person who they are seeing and envying. Knowledge of doctrine provides confidence in all areas of their lives.}

23b~~And your foot shall not stumble.

{Note: This has to do with coordination - when you have confidence you can Walk straight and tall and not stumble.}

24a~~When you lie down,
you shall not be afraid.

{Note: Only can be if you have doctrine in your soul and leave it up to the Lord to protect you - Faith Rest Technique}

24b~~Yes, you shall lie down,
and your sleep shall be sweet.

{Note: When David was fleeing his son Absalom who revolted against him, David lost everything (Psalm 4: yet he could lay down and sleep as they marched away from the city. When you have doctrine, no matter how great the disaster, you will be able to lie down and sleep peacefully.}

25a~~Be not afraid of catastrophe/'sudden fear'.

25b~~Neither of the plots of the wicked,
when it {their plotting} comes.

{Note: They do not always plot against you, but when they do, do not fear.}

26a~~For Jehovah/God shall be your confidence {kecel}.
  {Y@hovah actually is the verb 'to be' in absolute status quo -
  "I am . . . the Always Existing One" RBT says it is God the Son in
  view here}

26b~~And shall keep your foot from being trapped.
  {with doctrine to guide you, you do not step in a trap, pit, hole -
  you do what Doctrine teaches and you will avoid a lot of the
  pitfalls and snares in Satan's world}

{Verses 27-31: The Relationships of Doctrine}
27~~'Withhold not'/'Do not restrain' good {divine good}
from them to whom it is due/owed,
when it is in the power of your hand to do.

{Note: Only when in fellowship does God produce divine good through us - so first of all required is a mental attitude free of sins - that is the first thing we owe to fellow believers - to love them. And only under the power of the filling of God the Holy Spirit can we do this.}

{Note: From Romans we learn that we are to owe no man except love - this is the principal of impersonally loving other believers based on the doctrine resident in your soul - who and what YOU are, not at all related to what they are.}

{Avoid Mental Torture}
28~~Do not say to your neighbor,
"Go away, and come again, and tomorrow I will give . . .
when you have it 'by you'/'right then and there'.

{Note: This is mental torture. You can help your fellow believer right then and there, but you put him to shame by making him come back and beg. Don't do it. A Greek proverb is 'a slow paced favor is a flavorless favor'.}

{Respect the Privacy of Those in Your Periphery}
29~~Do not fabricate evil against your neighbor . . .
seeing he dwells securely by you.

{Note: Here a system of lies or some other way to downgrade your neighbor - the mind your own business principal.}

30~~Strive not with a man without cause,
if he has done you no harm.

{Note: This is the 'mind your own business' principal. Do not start trouble. Also fits for the revolutionist.}

[linssue55]

31a~Do not {intensively} envy { qana'}
the oppressor {'iysh}.

{Note: Qana' here is the Piel intensive stem meaning a lack of being relaxed - behind all the bad relationships being covered is 'mental attitude'. And, 'iysh we know from the previous verse is the one who is a bully or does not mind his own business.}

31b~~And choose none of his Ways.

{Note: Means do not 'retaliate' or bully back or spread rumors about him because he did about you.}

32a~~For the 'perverted one' {luwz}
is abomination to Jehovah/God.

{Note: The person who is minus Divine Viewpoint in his soul - no doctrine - is the perverted one. They can not Walk the righteous way of God if they do not know the righteous Way of God.}

32b~~But His secret
is with the righteous {yashar}.

{Note: His 'secret' is divine viewpoint - it is unknown to the unbeliever and the believer negative to the study of doctrine.}

{Verses 33-35: Antithetical Distich Verses (In common but Opposite)}
33a~~The curse of Jehovah/God
is on the house of the evil.
  {sin + arrogance = evil; and also, human good + arrogance = evil}

{Note: The curse of God is most frightening thing in the world!}

22b~~But He blesses the dwelling
'where there is'/of 'imputed righteousness'/'the just' {tsaddiyq}.

34a~He {God} keeps on being
caused to scorn/mock/ridicule {luwts - Hiphil imperfect}
the scorner/ scoffer/'arrogant negative type' {luwts}.
  {luwts - means someone who is indifferent to something that is
  important}

34b~~But He gives grace to the humble {`anav}.

{Note: This verse is quoted in James 4:6. David failed many, many times. He was a murderer. He was a rapist. He was guilty of the half-forgiveness of Absalom. But he always returned to doctrine. His mind was so loaded up with doctrine that his thinking was very close to divine viewpoint.}

35a~~The wise {chakam}
will inherit honor/glory {SuperGrace blessings}.

{Note: The spiritually mature believer is the 'wise' in spiritual terms. He is the one who learns doctrine and applies it to experience.}

35b~~But fools {k@ciyl}
  {those in the interlocking systems of arrogance + negative to
  doctrine}
carry away dishonor/shame.
  {shame - that which brings his life to ruin}

[linssue55]

1Co 12:5  And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6  And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7  But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8  For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9  To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10  To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11  But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

One must remember that historical trends apply here (Isogogics), for without knowing historical trends, SOME of the things mentioned here are for the beginning of the church age......Pauls time, and does NOT pertain to us today.  God has given all of His children at least one spiritual gift.....that is what is being spoken here....."Spiritual Gifts"..........

I Corinthians

Chapter 12
{{Relationship with the Holy Spirit verses 1-11}
1~~ ATTENTION! {new subject}
Now concerning spiritual things {gifts}, brethren,
I keep on desiring for you not to be stupid.

{Note: If you do not know doctrine, you are spiritually stupid. An ignorant person does not know bible exists. A stupid person knows it is there but ignores it.}

2~~ You know that you were Gentiles,
carried away face to face with these dumb idols,
how so ever you were led astray.

3~~ Therefore, I cause you to understand . . .
that no one speaking by the Spirit of God
calls Jesus accursed . . .
and that no one can say that Jesus is the Lord . . .
but by the Holy Spirit.

{Note: This means that while a believer is in fellowship and filled with the Spirit and under the control of the Holy Spirit . . . it is impossible to sin or call Jesus accursed. It also means that only believers in fellowhisp can truly call Jesus Christ - Lord.}

{Differences . . . and the Holy Spirit}
4~~ Now there are diversities of {spiritual} gifts,
but the same Spirit.

{Note: The Holy Spirit gives everyone at least one spiritual gift at the point of salvation, but each gift is mixed with that person's personality and makes it a little different.}

{Differences . . . and the Lord}
5~~ And there are differences of administrations,
but the same Lord.

{Note: We are still discussing spiritual gifts and how they are different. This time we are discussing areas of service. We do different things but have the same Lord.}

{Differences . . . and God the Father}
6~~ And there are diversities of operations,
but it is the same God Who works all in all.

{Note: We all operate under the Plan of God the Father that we are to follow. Administration, teaching, praying, giving, etc. These are all different for each believer, we all have the same God.}

7~~ But the manifestation of the Spirit {filling of the Spirit
  using their different personalities}
is given to each one
to profit for all {believers}
on account of spirituality.

{Some of the Spiritual Gifts are listed in verses 8 - 12}
8-10~~ For to one {believer} is given
through the instrumentality of the Holy Spirit . . .
the word of wisdom {1}.
To another the word of knowledge {2} by the same Spirit. 9~~
To another {believer} the gift of faith {3}
in the sphere of the operation of the Spirit
  {this was the Gift of Faith which was a miraculous temporary
  gift - 'mountains could be moved'.}
To another the gifts of healing {4} by the same Spirit
  {this is 'gift' - plural. There were many types of healing powers
  that people had. It was a temporary gift given by God to
  evangelize the masses before the Canon of Scriptures was
  complete.}. 10~~
To another {believer}, the working of miracles {5}.
  {another temporary gift. No one has this gift anymore but God
  directly performs miracles.}
To another prophecy {6}
  {this was the ability to accurately see what was to happen in
  the future. Again was necessary for books like Revelation to be
  completed.}.
To another the gift of discerning spirits {7}
  {this is the Gift of being able to tell a true teacher of doctrine
  from a false teacher very quickly, once the Bible was completed,
  the true doctrine was now in writing.}.
To another kinds of languages {8}
  {this gift was the ability to speak in a foreign language without
  studying or even knowing the language. This gift allowed people
  to evangelize people in their own language so they would
  understand.}.
To another the gift of interpretation of languages {9}
  {when the person with the Gift of languages spoke, the
  evangelized gentiles would 'hear' in their own language the
  gospel, but the Jews would think the guy speaking was off base.
  This gift was to another person also not knowing the language,
  but could interpret for the other believers what the first person
  was saying so all would understand it was Biblically correct.}

11~~ But all these are energized by the One . . .
and same . . . Holy Spirit . . .
distributing to each one individually {referring to believers}
as He will.

{Body of Christ}
12~~ For as the body is one, and has many members,
and all the members of that one body,
being many, are one body forever.
So also is The Christ {The Church/Body of Christ}.

{Note: With the definite article 'The', it refers to Christ and all members in union with him Positional Truth, union with Christ. 'Christ', without the definite article, refers to the person of Jesus.}

{Mechanics of Positional Truth - Union with Christ}
13~~ For by the instrumentality of one Spirit are we all . . .
once and for all . . . baptized into one body,
whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free;
and, have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

(cont)

[linssue55]

{Problem of the Spiritual inferiority complex - all parts are important - Verses 14-31}
14~~ For the body is not one member . . . but many {parts}.


15~~ If the foot shall say - maybe it will, maybe it won't -
"Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body".
Is it {the foot} therefore not of the body?

16~~ And if the ear shall say,
"Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body."
Is it therefore not of the body?

{Note: This is the same principal as verse 15.Brother ear, for example, may have a non-obvious gift such as helps or administration. Maybe brother eye's gift was an obvious gift of the day- tongues or miracles. Brother ear feels maybe he is not saved because he can not speak in tongues. Paul gives analog in next verse. All members are important.}

17~~ If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing?
If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling?


18~~ But now has God set the members
every one of them in the body, as He desires.

{Note: God the Holy Spirit distributes spiritual gift, at least one to each believer, as He wills. No one ever earns or deserves the gift he receives. Strictly a Grace process - based on Who and What God is - all the merit and Glory then goes to God, not to us- similar to salvation itself - by faith - it is a Gift of God, not of works lest any one should boast.}

19~~ And if they were all one member, where is the body?

{Note: Say we were all a 'bunch of eyes', where would the body be? If everyone had the gift of healing, but no teachers or administrators where would we be? Balance is needed. Teamwork.}

20~~ But now are they many members but one body.

21~~And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you." Nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you."

22~~ No, much more those members of the body
which seem to be more feeble {without apparent usefulness}
are necessary.

{Principal of Invisible Hero's in the Body of Christ}
23~~ And those members of the body,
which we think to be not honored,
upon these we bestow more abundant honor.
And our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

{Note: Think how important is the digestive tract, yet if you got to chose the part you would be, who would be the intestines? But they are important.}

24~~ For our comely parts have no need {to be publicly displayed}
but God has tempered the body together
having given more abundant honor
to that part which lacked {praise}.

25~~For the purpose that
there should be no division/strife in the body.
But that the members should have the same care one for another.

26~~And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it.
Or, one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it.

27~~ Now you all are the body of Christ and members in it.

{Spiritual Gifts listed in order of merit}
28~~ And God has appointed in the church:
first Apostles,
second prophets,
third teachers, after that
powers {miracles - 4}, then
gifts of healings {5},
helps {6},
administration {7}, and of
tongues {8-speaking in a foreign language unknown to the speaker}.

{Leadership/Communication Type Gifts}
29~~ Are all Apostles? No.
Are all prophets? No.
Are all teachers? No.
Are all workers of miracles? No.

{Temporary Gifts Used in a Spectacular Fashion to Evangelize before the Canon was Complete}
30~~ Have all the gifts of healing? No.
Do all speak with tongues? No.
Do all interpret? No.

{The More Excellent Way}
31~~ But you all covet earnestly the best gifts,
but I will demonstrate to you a more excellent way.

{Note: The Corinthians all wanted the spectacular spiritual gifts. Paul will now explain to the 'more excellent way in Chapter 13 -the filling of the Holy Spirit . . . Agape love.}

[linssue55]

Ha, ha......Ok people, slow down and breath, I am being bombarded with notifications. Ha!  I am old and not as fast as I used to be, ha.

[linssue55]

The doctrine of the ministry

 

            1. Greek synonyms of service.

                        a) Douleuw which means to serve as a slave.

                        b) Qerapeuw, which means to serve in a medical sense, medical practice. This is where we get the word “therapy.”

                        c) Latreuw, which means to serve for wages. A bona fide system of service.

                        d) Leitourgew, which refers to public service — police, military, government administration, etc.

                        e) U(perterew, means to be helpful to someone.

                        f) Diakonew, the verb. The noun is diakonia. One other is diakonoj. Sometimes this word is transliterated “deacon.” Sometimes it is translated “minister” and that is a good translation.

            2. The usage of diakonoj and diakonia. There are five different uses in the Bible:

                        a) The political use. This is for the head of a state in Romans 13:14. The word diakonoj is used once in the Bible for those who are in charge of a country.

                        b) A general use. It is the universal ministry of every believer in the Church Age as a royal priest — 2 Corinthians 3:6; 4:1; 6:3,18.

                        c) It is used of church administrators or deacons — Philippians 1:1; 1 Timothy 3:8-13. Deacons administer the activities of the church, so it connotes administration.

                        d) It is used in a specialised way for the pastor-teacher of the local church. It is used in the sense of his authority, his communication of the Word of God, and his policy-making — 1 Corinthians 3:5; Ephesians 3:7; Colossians 1:7, 23; 4:7; 1 Thessalonians 3:2; 1 Timothy 1:12; Hebrews 6:10; Acts 6:4.

                        e) There is also an evil usage of the word in 2 Corinthians 11:15 where it is used for Satan’s ministers. This is a counterfeit of the local church concept and Satan uses his ministers in religion.

            3. There are other words which identify the pastor-teacher or the minister of the local church. The function of the pastor-teacher is not religious, he is the teacher of the Word of God. It is his objective to so communicate doctrine that the royal priesthood under his jurisdiction in the local church will move to supergrace status which is the normal function of the priesthood and at which point the believer becomes spiritually self-sustaining.

            So we have three different words in addition. These three Bible words all indicate something different in the pastor-teacher.

            a) The first is the authority of his person. The Greek word is presbuteroj, often translated “elder.” It is found in 1 Timothy 5:17,19; Titus 1:5; James 5:14; 1 Peter 5:1. It always refers to the pastor, it does not refer to a church officer in the Bible. The distortion of this is to utilise this for a church officer. There is only one elder in a local church. The word means originally, “old man,” not in the sense of age but in the sense of title. It is a title of authority, it means the one in command of the local church. So this is the authority of his person.

            b) The authority of his policy. The Greek word for this is e)piskopoj. Unfortunately this is translated “bishop.” The reason for that is because of the Church of England and the translators being related to the Church of England who saw fit to translate this word (which means “inspector”) “bishop.” But actually it refers to the one who is an overseer, the one who has charge of observing what is going on, the one who sets up the policy for the workers on the plantation. So it comes to means the authority of his policy. Philippians 1:1; 1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:7.

            c) The authority of his message is found in two words: pastor-teacher of Ephesians 4:11. The first word, poimhn, means shepherd. So shepherd-teacher would be a better translation. This had the connotation that the sheep need feeding and need to be led properly and the shepherd has to find food for them. This is the first part of it. Secondly, we have his function, didaskaloj which means to teach a group. This means that a pastor doesn’t have to run around and personally spend time with members of his congregation.

            4. We also have some synonymous identification with these words. In Acts 20:17,28 we discover that all of these words are synonymous, referring to one person. In verse 17 the elders of Ephesus are called pastors in Acts 20:28. In this same context we have presbuteroj, e)piskopoj, and poimainw; they are told to feed the sheep, and all three of them are words used in the previous point.

            5. The appointment of the pastor is described in 1 Corinthians 12:11,28. God the Holy Spirit sovereignly bestows this gift on the pastor-teacher apart from human merit. The appointment of the pastor has nothing to do with the people. No congregation makes a pastor, a pastor makes a congregation. A pastor makes a great congregation by sticking to his job of teaching the Word of God and not allowing any portion or any individual in the congregation to run over him. Ephesians 4:11 — the gift of the pastor-teacher is strictly a gift of the Holy Spirit, not of the individual involved.

            6. The principle of the right pastor-teacher, right congregation is taught in 1 Peter 5:2. Every believer has a right pastor. Geography is usually the issue but there has to be a right pastor, your right pastor, the one who gets to you with doctrine, the one who causes you to be occupied with the person of Christ because you see who and what He is.

            7. The authority of the right pastor is given in Hebrews 13:7,17; 1 Thessalonians 5:12. His authority is absolute.

            8. The concept of the pastor as the total product of God’s grace is taught in 1 Corinthians 15:10; Ephesians 3:7; 1 Timothy 1:12-16.

            9. The reward of the pastor — Hebrews 6:10; 1 Peter 5:4.

            10. The biblical documentation for the existence of pastors: Colossians 1:23-29; 1 Timothy 2:24-26; 3:1-9; Titus 1:6-9; Ephesians 3:7-13.

 

            A minister is a male believer in a local congregation. As he grows spiritually he becomes aware of the existence inside of him of the residence of a spiritual gift. The spiritual gift was received at salvation. His awareness of the gift is based upon his daily intake of doctrine (after his own academic training has been accomplished through Seminary teaching) , the daily function of GAP (Grace Apparatus for Perception.....daily intake of bible doctrine) causes him to become aware of this gift. It is not an emotional thing although certainly he has the right to get emotional about it if he is enjoying what he is doing in life.

 

[linssue55]

The importance of Bible doctrine to the believer priest
 

            Every believer is a member of the royal family and therefore he must have the right perspective with regards to doctrine. There are false concepts whereby people think they can read the Bible for themselves and grow up. You cannot read the Bible for yourself, you cannot memorise it and grow up. All of this requires the function of a pastor-teacher who is released for the sole objective of studying and teaching, studying and teaching.


            1. By definition, what is doctrine? Bible doctrine is the content of the canon of scripture derived from exegesis, isogogics, and classification of promises, principles and categories. Bible doctrine is called the mind of Christ — 1 Corinthians 2:16. Bible doctrine is the Word as it is taught. In content it is simply whatever the content may be, a promise, a principle, or some axiom, some historical description or narrative, but when it is communicated it is called doctrine.

            2. A vocabulary is necessary. Six words are used for doctrine in the scripture.

                        a) The first is a Hebrew noun leqach. It means doctrine, learning, knowledge, i.e. what one receives into his mind or learns. This word is used for doctrine in Deuteronomy 32:2; Job 11:4; Proverbs 4:2; Isaiah 29:24.   

                        b) A second Hebrew noun is musar. It means instruction or doctrine. It means you have doctrine that you have taken in — Job 10:8; Proverbs 1;2; 4:13; 23:23.

                        c) The Greek noun didaskalia means teaching or doctrine or what is taught from the scripture — Matthew 15:9; Ephesians 4:14; Colossians 2:22; 1 Timothy 1:10; for doctrine of demons in 1 Timothy 4:1; 1 Timothy 5:17; 6:1,3; 2 Timothy 3:10,16; 2 Timothy 4:3; Titus 1:9; 2:1,7,10. In other words, throughout the pastoral epistles, 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus, practically every time you see the word doctrine it refers to this noun didaskalia.

                        d) The Greek noun didaxh is the act of teaching or what is taught from the scripture — Matthew 7:28; 22:33; Mark 1:22,27; Acts 2:42; 5:48; Romans 6:17; 16:17; 1 Corinthians 14:6,26; 2 Timothy 4:2; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 2:14,15,24.

                        e) The Greek noun logoj which has numerous correct and accurate meanings. In Hebrews 6:1 it refers to doctrine.

                        f) The Hebrew word shemuah means what is heard or doctrine — Isaiah 28:9.

            3. Bible doctrine has a long history, a history that begins with God in eternity past — Proverbs chapter 8. Here is one passage that emphasises the importance of Bible doctrine. There is nothing more important in your life than doctrine as illustrated by this chapter in Proverbs.

 

            Proverbs 8

            Verse 1 — “Does not wisdom call.” The word for wisdom here is chakmah — it is the equivalent of the Greek sofia and it refers to the application of e)pignwsij doctrine or metabolised doctrine to experience. Chakmah is e)pignwsij. Wisdom calling is the application of doctrine to experience; “and understanding lift up her voice?”

            Verse 2 — “On top of the high places on the street [doctrine was taught in city auditoriums], At intersections she takes a stand” — doctrine was taught outdoors in those days at places where people gathered. “She” refers to Bible doctrine.

            Verse 3 — “Beside the gates leading to the city, At the entrance she communicates aloud.” They often had small auditoriums at the gates of cities.

            Verse 4 — “To you, mankind, I call; And my voice [communication of doctrine] is to all mankind.”

            Verse 5 — “You who are ignorant, learn doctrine [learning, of course, must precede thinking]; You who are fools [referring to negative volition], learn the importance of understanding [the importance of application of doctrine]”.

            Verse 6 — “Hear [qal imperative from shamah — you have to hear, concentrate, listen], for I [doctrine] speak noble things; And the communication of my lips is virtue.”

            Verse 7 — “For my mouth [the personification of doctrine] communicates truth; For my lips detest evil.”

            Verse 8 — “All the words of my communication are integrity; Nothing is twisted or perverted in them.” [Twisting and reversion refers to false application of doctrine or misunderstanding of doctrine or the heresies that are passed for doctrine. If you are twisted in your understanding you are perverted in your thinking. If you are twisted in learning you are perverted in application.]

            Verse 9 — “To those who understand [the hiphil participle of the verb bin — causative active voice, which means we are caused to understand. This is the ministry of God the Holy Spirit.] they are all to the point, And perspicuous to those who have obtained knowledge [the qal active participle of the verb matsa — to find].”

            Verse 10 — “ Seize [laqach — to seize or to grab] my instruction, rather than silver [a matter of priorities]; And learning doctrine rather than choice gold.”

            Verse 11 — “For wisdom  (teachability) is better than precious gems; And all desirable things cannot be compared with her [doctrine].”

            The results of doctrine:

            Verse 12 — “I wisdom have a lifestyle [once you begin to apply doctrine (thinking doctrine — once there is understanding then there is thinking) that develops a lifestyle] of prudence [amarmar — the ability to regulate and discipline one’s self to the exercise of reason and common sense. Reason is learning the principles and common sense is the application of it]. I find [or discover] knowledge and discernment [knowledge is understanding of doctrine; discernment is thinking or application of doctrine].”

            Verse 13 — “To respect the Lord is to hate evil: I [doctrine] hate arrogance and pride, and perverted speech.”

            Verse 14 — “Counsel and sound judgement belong to me [Note: You are not counselled by someone on the outside; you learn doctrine and a part of the application is to self. We apply doctrine toward God, toward people and toward self]: I have understanding and power [understanding is the noun binah — metabolised doctrine. Power — giborah, (strong and intrepid of soul) means application of doctrine].”

(cont)