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Author Topic: The Rapture....does it matter to me?  (Read 5882 times)
Amorus
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« on: June 26, 2006, 11:38:56 AM »

The Rapture seems to becoming an increasing popular debate lately.
I don't know if this is really a debate issue, so I thought I would post it here.  I probably need to make some clarification first.  I do believe in the "Rapture." For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. (1 THESSALONIANS 4:16-17), Do I care when that happens.....pre, mid, post......no.   I think its really great that there are Christians who are studying this subject in such great detail.  ( REVELATION 1:3 ) Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.  I can see the world today and I can see what was written and shown through prophecy.  Is it exciting to me?  Somewhat and I can't argue that its interesting.  But, my salvation is in the hand of Christ who paid that price on the cross, who was resurrected three days after and went to be at the right hand of the Father.  There are definite situations that I do not want to face in this life, but would I be faithful to say in those times that Christ, who has walked beside me and most times carried me, would turn from me?  Would leave me alone in this world?   ( REV 7:16-17 ) "Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst.  The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat.  For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water.  And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."  There is a difference for me in seeing thoughts through the spirit and seeing them through the flesh.  For me I like to study the gift of Salvation, really try to understand what Christ was like, what He did, and what he went through. So, is there really a need to "prove" (and I know some of you are trying Cheesy) when this awesome event will take place or do we realize that as Christians, Christ has already saved us and no matter what is to happen to us on this Earth, that we will be with him forever in paradise?  Please remember this is a friendly discussion, just wondering what thoughts are out there to help my knowledge grow.  All opinions will be heard and taken seriously by myself......I can't speak for others however. Grin  And once again, please remember that I am not attacking anyones opinion.  I'm trying to increase my own knowledge from some great insight that seems to be common place on these forums.  So, out with it, whats all the hoopla about?  Grin
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« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2006, 12:32:32 PM »

I agree Amorous, What is the importance of when as long as we know that the rapture, whenever it takes place, will in fact happen and we will be with our Lord and Saviour. Personally I think that arguing over such things detracts from the most important part of God's word, the wonderful word of the Gospel.

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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2006, 01:39:55 PM »

a big AMEN to everything. We need not worry about 'when' it will happen. We need to be doing His will and helping to increase the number of people who will be apart of this Event!!!!   AMEN!!



           Soldier for HIM.....Tina
                       
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2006, 10:55:41 AM »

Amen Sister, we need to be busy doing the things Jesus told us to do and He will come back for us not a minute too soon and not a minute too late. That is His promise.
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2006, 05:18:20 PM »

AMEN -Am-, PR, Tina, and Maria!!
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« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2006, 12:16:35 AM »

I think that the reasons for studying the events leading up to the rapture is so when someone asks us about the things that are happening today in the Middle East we can explain to them and lead them to God. Jesus' Second Coming is actually what all of these events are leading up to and not the rapture. We are not to know the day or the hour in which the rapture will happen.
Kathy
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« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2006, 08:38:25 AM »

Amen to all.

The Bible clearly tells us that we will not know when Jesus it to come again.  This being a key point in the entire process of the rapture and tribulation.  We will not know.  But one thing that Jesus told us to always be prepared for it.

Those that are trying so desperately to find a date for the return of Christ are seeking an excuse.  They are looking for a time so they know that 4 weeks before that time they better start straitening their life out and get going right with God again. 

Jesus does not want us to be saved but living unrighteously up until the time before he comes and then start being righteous.  He wants us to always be righteous and live according to His will.  For this is the glory of God to see it in our everyday lives and the planting of the seeds that God will nurture in others.  Not only is our spreading of the Word with our mouth and out literature part our "Commission" but to live according to who we are in Christ.

I once heard a speaker ask this and it is so true in our everyday life and what we as followers of Christ should be doing
"Are you becoming what you became?"
So true in that we who are saved have already become spiritually a saved being.  Now the question is are we acting and growing into that which Christ has made of us?

Should the Rapture matter to you?  Sure it should, just as the story of Moses should matter, or anything else in the Bible for that matter.  We are told that every word of it is for the edifying of saints, above reprooof, as well as the purpose of teaching.  So there is not a part of the Bible that "less" important than the others.  Nor is there any doctrine in the Bible that is less important than others.  We are to use it all and when you study and get to know a certain portion of the Bible (IE you have a thurough understanding of a book, story, concept, etc) then God will use you and your knowledge somehow, somewhere for His Glory and spreading His Grace.

Sincerely
Brother Jerry
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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2006, 09:03:06 AM »

Amen Bro Jerry.

I too admit I would like to know, but not to get right with God Grin

I am also thankfull that we humans are not privileged to the information. I for one procrastinate.........

If I have no idea when our risen Lord will return, and I am prepaired, then I will do everything I can to share His good news with those around me, that they may share in the exiting anticipation!

BIC
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2006, 03:27:35 PM »

Blessings to you!

I have some time between mission work and thought I would check in.

Yes, this seems to be very popular for debate and discussion at this time, both on news stations and at churches, as well as Christian chat rooms online.

I tend to not listen to ones that watch the "signs" and tell me when they believe this will occur. I read the Bible. In Revelations it clearly states that, only God will know the precise time, and I will wait on Him. I haven't stopped looking up, waiting for the glorious day when Jesus returns but I concentrate on doing His Work that He planned for Me, for His Glory, and not on when He will come back. Even after Jesus' resurrection, the disciples believed that THEY were in the end of times. Although there are many signs today, there were also just as many back then. We should just stay focused on Him, His Work, His Word and helping the lost souls to find Him and follow His Ways.

I figure it this way: I know where I am going, no matter when it happens, so I am not concerned when that will happen. God will reveal that to us in His Time. I have Faith in His Promise and can't wait to rejoice in His Radiance, Worshipping Him for all eternity!

God Bless,
Kelly
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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2006, 09:36:30 AM »

Thanks everyone for all your insight. 
Blessings!
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2006, 05:06:06 PM »

I certainly agree with most comments here.   I will say however, that this issue is spoken of greatly in the word and was clearly given for us to know Gods plan of history for mankind.  Bear with me for a few paragraphs if you would.


When the disciples came and asked Jesus privately "when will these things happen, and what will be the signs of your coming".  Jesus explained in great detail for them, and us, so that we would understand the signs that would signal His return.   So yes, it is important for us, just as it was them.  Not in a salvaic sense, mind you, but in the sense that we are not to be blind to Gods full plan for His Church as the world is.


1Th 5:4  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7  For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.

Paul tells this group of believers to WATCH and be SOBER.   Again, keeping things in perspective here, he doesn't tell them to run around like chicken little crying that the sky is falling, but clearly we are to be aware of the times we live in, be sober and sound minded, preparing ourselves with faith, love and hope of our redemption drawing all the closer.

I will say that current world events have opened many many opportunities for me to share Gods love with others.   The world is obsessed with end time talk.   Just watch a few hours of the history channel, or late blockbuster titles.   Doom and gloom as it were.   Of course they too can see the writing on the wall, but none of them are watching and sober to current events.   If we are not watching and sober to the times, how will we ever be able to share Gods love and peace with them, with an un-earthly peace in the midst of it all?

Simple answer....by standing firm on Gods word and promises regarding the signals of His soon return and how we were instructed by Christ himself to watch and know the signs.   Is the rapture important to me?   You betcha!  Not in a debatable sense, but in truth and hope!   

I hear all the time people saying how these signs have been happening for 2000 years, and saying the lords return was near for a long time.   Indeed, but if you look at the signs that Jesus himself gave, and the manner in which they would be taking place, it narrows things down significantly!   Note that Jesus did not say any of the individual signs could not happen from time to time....i.e. wars rumors of wars, or earthquakes.

He gave a series of signs that would all be taking place together, in a cycle like that of the birth pains of a women.

Wars, rumors of wars....earthquakes in various places, nation against nations, kingdom against kingdom, roaring of the waves, great signs and wonders in the heavens.

Consider the last 5 years as opposed to history
Tsunami's
Earthquakes
Katrina - wiped out an entire city -  displaced thousands of people from N.O.
Wars current, and rumors of wars
Threats of asteroid impacts
Plagues - bird flu, AIDS, etc...
famines - happening in many parts of the world.

Can anyone name a time in history when ALL these things were taking place at the same time, in a cycle of ever increasing magnitude?   Jesus said this would only be the beginning!

Add on top of that current geopolitical landscape of a revived Roman empire living and thriving as Daniel predicted in the OT, and Israel being restored to the promise land as Ezekiel predicted and suddenly Jesus words over 2,000 years ago don't sound like distant story from a history book....its current headlines on a daily basis.


Let me be clear, I am not date setting here as no believer should, but I will boldly say we ARE INDEED living in the final hours of history.   And I know this not because I am some self proclaimed prophet giving a prediction....I know it because we are the only generation to experience ALL the above just as described in scripture, and in the same exact manner Jesus said they would happen.   


Let me ask the same question as the OP did.  Is the Rapture important to me?   Yes sir!   Why?   Because I know time is running out on this world.   Millions are drowning in the icy seas around us.   WE MUST know the times and plant crops of  Gospel seed before the spring rains begin, and its too late for those who do not know the times that lay ahead.  And, Jesus told us to watch so as to be ready for His return, to be living righteously in service to Him when he arrives.    Is the rapture important to you?    It should be! 




Grace and Peace!
« Last Edit: July 17, 2006, 05:17:30 PM by 2nd Timothy » Logged

Tim

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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2006, 11:00:04 PM »

Blessings Tim!
Okay, I must be a stick in the mud (if we had any mud, due to the heatwave in Kansas). I still think all these things happened throughout history, from Earthquakes, to volcanoes, astoroids (and now, space junk is falling), floods--wars; do you ever remember a time when someone wasn't having one, somewhere? If there wasn't a war, someone started one, it seemed, just to keep busy.

In my lifetime, I have seen our world atlas turn into a bunch of countries that are no longer there. I witnessed Mt. St. Helen's erupting, Mt. Popo (only know Mexican name, since I lived behind it when I was in Puebla) erupting in Puebla, Earthquakes in California (when isn't there one?), Tornadoes everywhere (me included), Hurricanes (been there--lived in Massachusetts, Hurricane Bob is the call to fame for my first born child..hee hee). There is the space shuttle incident, Oklahoma City Bombing..and I know I am missing TONS of events during that time period. Truthfully, I can't see one part of history where our earth wasn't in some sort of a mess, naturally or by man's own hands.

I lived in Vegas for many years. If that isn't the original city of sin, I don't know what is. Yet, I heard everyone here talking that, New Orleans was being "paid back" for all it's sin. When Vegas becomes ocean front property, I will worry but until then, I will just do as Jesus tells me to do, and keep looking up, awaiting His arrival. If I don't see Him come here on earth, I know for SURE I will see him when I go to heaven.

What was my point, anyway? If anyone has a clue, let me know. Sometimes, I just like to hear the sound of my fingers typing. Smiley

God Bless,
Kelly
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Kelly
 
Psalm 62: 5 Find rest, O my soul, in God alone;  my hope comes from him.  6 He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2006, 04:07:34 AM »

Amen 2nd Timothy!

I loved your post, not just because we agree on many areas of Bible prophecy. I love the fact that GOD put every WORD in the Bible for a reason. We are to read and study GOD'S WORD from cover to cover very diligently for many reasons. The main reason is that GOD gave us HIS WORD to read and study for Salvation, instruction, encouragement, and a host of other reasons. It is a joyous challenge to study GOD'S WORD, even the highly complex and time-consuming Bible Prophecy.

YES, the RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST is an important and precious topic, and it represents a beautiful PROMISE of Almighty GOD. We know that the Promises of GOD will be fulfilled perfectly at HIS appointed time, and it appears that time is growing near. RIGHT NOW WOULD BE WONDERFUL!

Brother, we've been missing you. Wherever you are and whatever you are doing, many of us are doing the same thing you are:

KEEP LOOKING UP!!

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Thessalonians 4:13 NASB  But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 NASB  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 NASB  For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 NASB  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 NASB  Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:18 NASB  Therefore comfort one another with these words.
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2006, 06:44:07 AM »

Hi Kelly4Jesus!    Smiley    I don't think you're being a stick in the mud at all!   Nothing wrong with questioning what we hear  Smiley


Blessings Tim!
Okay, I must be a stick in the mud (if we had any mud, due to the heatwave in Kansas).  I still think all these things happened throughout history, from Earthquakes, to volcanoes, astoroids (and now, space junk is falling), floods--wars; do you ever remember a time when someone wasn't having one, somewhere? If there wasn't a war, someone started one, it seemed, just to keep busy.

In my lifetime, I have seen our world atlas turn into a bunch of countries that are no longer there. I witnessed Mt. St. Helen's erupting, Mt. Popo (only know Mexican name, since I lived behind it when I was in Puebla) erupting in Puebla, Earthquakes in California (when isn't there one?), Tornadoes everywhere (me included), Hurricanes (been there--lived in Massachusetts, Hurricane Bob is the call to fame for my first born child..hee hee). There is the space shuttle incident, Oklahoma City Bombing..and I know I am missing TONS of events during that time period. Truthfully, I can't see one part of history where our earth wasn't in some sort of a mess, naturally or by man's own hands.


Indeed!   All these things have happened in the past.  But as I said in my prior post, Jesus never said these things wouldn't take from time to time, which they have....but He specifically said that right before His return, they would ALL be taking place together in a manner such as birth pangs.   All the signs together, Cycling if you will, in ever increasing magnitude like contractions before birth.   Before the last few World Wars, you may be able to find throughout history major world events like these that have happened in a singular sense or maybe even a few together over periods of time, but today if you go take a look at the headlines, you will see ALL those signs taking place this morning.   In todays headlines you can read about a massive earthquake, a Tsunami that has killed hundreds, wars (Iraq, Israel/Lebanon), rumors of wars (Iran, North Korea) Nations against Nations, Kingdom against Kingdom (Japan/US-North Korea, Syria/Iran Israel).  If you have followed the news over the last 20 years or so, you will see an unmistakable pattern.   ALL these events are increasing both in frequency and intensity, just like labor pains.    I think you will be hard pressed to find a time in history where this was the case.     Jesus said when you see all these things taking place in the manner He described, know that it is near, even at the door!      Lump all this in with Israels appearance as a nation again, world leaders scrambling to involve themselves in peace in that very region, a Revived Roman Empire that Daniel speaks of in great detail, and you get a time in history unlike any that we have seen since Jesus time.   We are unmistakably close if we are to accept the signs Jesus told us would signal His return.   We don't know the hour or the day, but we know the signs, and those signs are pointing to the promise He gave concerning the nearness of His return.




Quote
I lived in Vegas for many years. If that isn't the original city of sin, I don't know what is. Yet, I heard everyone here talking that, New Orleans was being "paid back" for all it's sin. When Vegas becomes ocean front property, I will worry but until then, I will just do as Jesus tells me to do, and keep looking up, awaiting His arrival. If I don't see Him come here on earth, I know for SURE I will see him when I go to heaven.


I'm not sure I subscribe to the idea that events like these are "payback for sins" as some have said previously.   I also don't think we should be worried about these things either.  Like you say, we are going heaven one way or the other if we have accepted Him as our Lord and Saviour  Smiley     Kelly, He might very well tarry for some time yet.  All we can go on is what He told us to watch for.   If we go by that, He's got His hand on the door knob.   I too will wait for His good timing, but its clear we don't have long to wait.   Wink   


Quote
What was my point, anyway? If anyone has a clue, let me know. Sometimes, I just like to hear the sound of my fingers typing. Smiley

God Bless,
Kelly


LOL   Cheesy   I'm fairly sure your point was to Occupy till He comes!  To that I can only say Amen!   I will add that I'm occupied with a painful crick in my neck from all the looking up though  Grin

Blessings!
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Tim

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« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2006, 06:55:34 AM »

Tom said:

Quote
Brother, we've been missing you. Wherever you are and whatever you are doing, many of us are doing the same thing you are:


Thanks brother, Its nice to be missed!   Spring schedule keeps my tied up a bit, but I should have more time to visit with you guys now.


Grace and Peace!
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Tim

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