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« on: August 30, 2003, 01:27:04 AM »

      With the talk about the laws of the land, allowing 10 commandments in public forum, gay schools, ect ect I thought it would be good to see just what the some of our forefathers had to say.
       I have very few resources to use please jump in with what you have...... Wink

        Since he was 1st president, we'll begin with, George Washington
first order to his troops
         Every officer and man......to live, and act, becomes a Christain Soldier defending the dearest righs and liberties of his country.

        May 14,1787 warns the delegates to the Constitutional Convention
          if to please the people, we offer what we ourselves disapprove, how can we afterward defend our work? Let us raise a standard to which the wise and the honest can repair, the events is in the Hand of God!

        April 30, 1789  His Inagural Address to the both houses of Congress. Right after taking the oath, with his hand on the bible opened to Det Chapt 28.
        Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be perculiarly imporper to omit, in this first officail act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the council of nations and whose providential aides can supply every human defect:that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may be enable every instrument employed in its administration  to execute with sucess, the functions allotted to his charge.

    In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure myself that it erxpresses our sentiments not less than my own;nor those of my fellow citizens at large, less than either.

   No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nations seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency.

     And in the important revolution just accomplished, in the system of their United government the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities, from which the event has resulted, can not be compared with the means by which most governmetn have been established, with out some return of pious gratitude, along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage........

      We outght to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained: and since the preservation of the sacred fire of Liberty and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered as deeply,......

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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2003, 01:21:00 PM »

Good morning fellow Christians, love and peace in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord. More of what Pres George Washington has to say about this country, and how God plays a part in this country.

 October 3, 1789, proclaiming the A national Day of Thanksgiving

     Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore His protections and favor.....

       Now therefore, I do recommmend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of Nov. next. to be devoted by the people of these Unities States.... that we then may all unite unto him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to thier becoming a nation: For the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpostions of HIs providence in the course and conclusion of the late war, for the great degree of tranquilty uinion and plenty which we have since enjoyed, for the peaceable and the rational manner in which we have been enabled to establish contitutions of governemnt for out safety and happiness and praticularly the national one now laterly instituted for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed.....And also that we may then unitie in most humbly offerings our prayers and supplicationsto the great Lord and Ruler of Nations, and beseech Him to pardon our national and other trangressoins to promote the knowledge and practice of the true religion and virtue.....

Given under my hand, ath the city of New York, the 3rd of Oct. AD 1789.

« Last Edit: September 03, 2003, 11:51:43 AM by musicllover » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2003, 12:07:24 AM »

I pray that all have a had good Sabbath,

The Continental Congress was established to resist the unfair tax, laws. Congress apponts a official day of fasting and prayer for the colonies.
     May 16, 1776
        The congress..Desirous to have people of all ranks and degrees duly impressed with a solemn sense of God's superintending providence, and of their duty, devoutly to rely....on His aid and direction..Do earnestly recommend Friday the 17 day of May be observed by the colonies as a day of humilation, fasting, and prayer that we may with united hearts, confess and bewailed our manifold sins and transgressions, and by sincere repentance and amendment of life, appease God's righteteous displeasure, and through the merits and mediation of Jesus CHrist, obtain this pardon and forgiveness.

Sept 11,1777 , orders 20,000 bibles for the American troops. Written into law, its says.

      The use of the Bible is so univeral and its importance so great that your committee refers the above to the consideration of Congress, and if Congress shall not think it expedient to order the importation of types and paper, the Committee recommends that Congress will order the Committee of Commerce to import 20,000 Bibles from Holland, Scotland, or elsewhere, into the differnet parts of the Staes of the Union.
      Where upon it was resloved accordingly to direct said Committee of Commerce to import 20,000 copies of the bible.
     ( The US Marines still give bibles to our soldiers. They come with all there other gear issues to them, camouflaged too.)

         The congress then ok this endorsement to be printed on the front page of the bible approved for the American people. ( I assume these bibles are printed from the paper mention in the above article.)
      Whereupon, Resolved, that the Unites States in Congress assembled....recommend this editon of the Bible to the inhabitants of the Unites States, and hereby authorize Robert Aitken to publish this recommendation in the manner he shall think proper.

         DEFIANTLY NOT a seperation of Church and state here, the state is the one promoting and ordering and having the bibles written for the people of the good old USA.

 I found this next article to be very fasinating.....I'm sure some will too

ON July13, 1787 Congress passed "an Ordinancd for the Government of the Territory of the United States. This law passed again by congress and was signed into law by Pres. G. Washington, Aug4, 1889
Article lll
    Religion, moraltiy, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall be forever encouraged.

   So would some like to explain to me what "FOREVER" means?
The Congress at that time knew religion and morality was NECESSARY TO good government and happiness of mankind....... what has changed? WE have, not the word, not What God believes about morality. God is the same today yersterday and will be tomorrow.......WE are the ones who have allowed freedom of choice to run away with morality, all in the name of "tolerance" we the people of this great unitied states......I am ashamed of what I have not done to keep my part of this world moral and corrupt free. But we aren't out of time yet. Pray people, Pray that God wouldn't bring judgement on this nation, that we the people would stand up united with one voice for God again.

    Have a safe and wonderful Holiday......
« Last Edit: September 02, 2003, 07:58:52 AM by musicllover » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2003, 04:01:17 PM »

     A quiet Labor Day at my house, suppose to be reading my History for class tomorrow.....so what am I doing? I'm reading History but not quit what my instructor had us reading....SSSSSShhhhhhh I'll read it later....

To add a little more to what I posted last evening.
May1, 1789
 The war of Independence was about over, and Continental Congress was about to become Congress of the USA, house Representatives vote to elect Rev. William Linn, a dutch refomed minister as it chaplain. They voted to pay him 500.00 dollars from the federal treasury for his salary. And the Right Reverend Bishop Samuel Provost was elected in as Chapalain of the Senate. He too was payed from the federal treasury. And to this day both houses still open with Prayer.
I'm still trying to see were seperation of church and state is....Its not part of our constitution like some would have us believe.
      If congress felt the need to keep faith and state seperate then WHY would they unaminoulsy approve a resolution asking Pres G Washington to declare a National Day of Thanksgiving.

            Day of Thanskgiving. Resolved. That a joint committee of both Houses be directed to wait upon the Pres of the Untied States to request that he recommend to the people of th U.S. a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the many signal favors of Almight God, especially by offording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a constittion of government for the safety and happiness.

     no this seperation of church and state is a fabrication of the ACLU and others who don't want Christians to have a say in, ANY SAY about anything of the USA. This is only the beginning. ONe more baby step to taking away of all Christian rights. The key term on some sites has been tolerance....tolerance works both way......but as Christians we aren't to tolerate sin. WE each have a responsiblity to identify "sin" measured by the word of God. Some say that (for one example) homosexuality isn't mention in the new testament, but it is mentioned, along with several other sins......Rom 1:24-31.

I might add here that the last line of the Rom scripture warns any who "approve" the mentioned acts to be in sin as well.....

With permission from Tom (our own blackeyedpeas) I cut and pasted this from his site..http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/index.html..I would encourage anyone to go there and read, its very well put together, and very well said. .

Thomas Jefferson was in France as an ambassador during the Constitutional Convention that ratified the First Amendment. However, some of Thomas Jefferson's words in a private letter eleven years after the ratification of the First Amendment were used to form the modern concept of "separation of church and state". Thomas Jefferson's words, "thus building a wall of separation between church and state", appeared in a private letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802, trying to assure them that the federal government would not and could not try to establish a national denomination. His words were taken out of context, and the intent of his words did not resemble the modern concept of "separation of church and state". Thomas Jefferson's words were clear when viewed in context with the rest of his letter. Further, Thomas Jefferson's deeds and other words make it clear that he would not tolerate the current concept of "separation of church and state". Let's examine some of Thomas Jefferson's words and deeds to see if he would tolerate the REMOVAL OF GOD FROM PUBLIC VIEW:
"In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the General Government." (1805, second Inaugural Address by President Thomas Jefferson).

Thomas Jefferson also served as president of the Washington, DC public school system while serving as the President of the United States. Thomas Jefferson placed the Holy Bible and Isaac Watt's hymnal as the two primary reading texts for school children during his tenure.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2003, 12:41:24 AM by musicllover » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2003, 11:50:50 AM »

Good morning,
               I've been a good girl, I did my homework first......AHHH does anyone know anyting about intergers???
I am so thankful we don't have to do algebra to get into Heaven.. Grin Ok before my brain short circuits out.....
     The president is John Adams, for clarity.
   Just a real quick resonse to my previous post, I can't excuse what Adams signed, I don't know his motives. But at the same time I wonder. I've have my own opinon, The fact is Congress reversed what John Adams(1797) signed.
      I ask myself did Adams understand what the Muslim faith was? Many think the Islamic faith is peace loving and good Christians. Shoot they pray 5 times a day, have memorized 99 name of God (there god I should say). Respectors of life. But you begin to dig and get into the fundamentals of this faith you can see its not the same God as Christians have. Then you also have the several diff sect of Islam to deal with Muhammad died in 636, this caused a split, some saying Muhammad heir should take his place, and other believeing someone else. SO you have the breaking up of the Known Islamic to several diif groups. Sunnis, largest group, and finding them in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Libya. Then the Shiaites, rememer the Ayatollah, Khoumeni, and then the Ahmdiayan which was founded in the 1800,,,,,now that may be who John Adams was dealing with, you see this group today on College Campus, airports sometimes. , and yet another small group call the Sufi. Either way, I can't explain why J Adams signed except to give food for thought and to give the readers, possible excuses for Adams. He simply  lacked understanding who Muslims were. Remember we have several years between the Orginal signing in 1797,and the reversal of this agreement in 1892. And as early as 1931, and again in 1952, the trinity decesion was upheld that establishes us as a Christian Nation.

is it a plane is it a bird....NO its supermom got to get to work on more home work.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2003, 04:15:59 PM by musicllover » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2003, 12:16:18 AM »

Good Evening,
                   Time to go to bed but to wind down a little I thought I would go on with the Declaration of Independence. Now I'll sleep with visions of congress dancing in my head. LOL......

July 4, 1776, Continental Congress declared our national idependence from Great Britain.
         When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and Nature's God entitles them.......
         We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their Creator these ae life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..
           We Therefore, the Representatives of the United State of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions......
            And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divince Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our scared honor.

The men in that room each signed there names and agree with what was written. 3 did refuse to sign Randolph, Mason and Gerry, (didn't have there first names) but thirty-nine signed. Fourteen deputies had departed for their homes, and three--. One of the signatures for an absent deputy, John Dickinson, he had another rep from same state sign for him George Read. With enough votes from each state, it passed  Unanimously and its been here ever since.
       We have one of the best systems in place for the people, the government. IF it aint broke why fix it. No its not perfect. But it sure beats nothing at all, beats communism, or dictator ship.

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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2003, 12:09:28 PM »

Excerpts from The Treaty With Tripoli By Sherman D. Wakefield

1. John Adams did not write it, an Arab, Hassan Bashaw did.
2. It was improperly translated by Joel Barlow to include the infamous Art. 11, which did not exist in the original Arabic.
3. The treaty was re-written during Jefferson's presidency which excluded the the mysterious insert of non religious roots of the US .
4. George Washington was president when the treaty was signed at Tripoli, but by the time it reached the Senate for ratification John Adams was president, and it was the latter who presented it to the Senate
5. Yet the congress adopted it even with the erroneous text making it legally binding, and uselful to those who hold to the separation of church and state.
See below the story, makes for interesting reading.

What are the facts regarding this important treaty? In the first place it was not written by George Washington or anybody else in the United States, but in Algiers and signed at Tripoli on Nov. 4, 1796, and at Algiers on Jan. 3, 1797, by Hassan Bashaw, dey or bey of Algiers, and Joel Barlow, U.S. Consul to Algiers. The original is in Arabic and the English text was translated by Joel Barlow. Both texts were submitted to the U.S. Senate on May 29, 1797, and the treaty was ratified and proclaimed in Philadelphia on June 10, 1797.
The part of this treaty of special interest to Freethinkers is, of course, Article XI, but it is seldom quoted in full by them. The complete Article explains why the first part is mentioned and why the Musselmen or Moslems would make a treaty with a non-Moslem nation. The entire Article Xl in the original treaty reads as follows:
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,--as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquillity of Musselmen,--and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mohammedan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever interrupt the harmony existing between the two countries."
Only since about 1930 has it become clear to scholars that the Arabic parallel to the English Article XI is not the original of the supposed quotation but has no relation to it. There is no Article XI in the original Arabic, and in its place is a crude letter of no importance from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha of Tripoli. This discrepancy remains a mystery to this day.
Long before the United States came into existence, the Barbary States of northern Africa had gained their revenue from piracy and the European nations had paid them money and gifts for immunity to their vessels. This practice was adopted by the young American republic, and tribute was part of the treaty of 1796-97. Article X of this treaty with Tripoli states that the money and gifts demanded by the bey had been paid. A "receipt" dated Nov. 21, 1796, and included in the treaty acknowledges the following: 40,000 duros (Spanish dollars), 13 watches, 5 seal rings, 140 ells of cloth, and 4 garments, in lieu of annual tribute to Tripoli. A "note" dated Jan. 3, 1797, also itemizes what the United States still needed to pay. The matter was finally settled by the United States paying the equivalent of $18,000 on Apr. 10, 1799.
But the bey of Tripoli still [was] not satisfied. By 1800 he thought he had succeeded in intimidating the Christian nations of Europe and thus thought he could impose new conditions on the United States through U.S. Consul Cathcart at Tripoli. Cathcart refused any more tribute, but on May 4, 1801, the American flag staff was cut down and Cathcart left on May 24. President Jefferson sent out a few frigates to defend American shipping, and in February 1802 was authorized to use all the ships that were necessary including private vessels. The port of Tripoli was blockaded by American ships and bombarded,
but not taken. When the bey saw the Americans were too much for him a new treaty with Tripoli was drawn up and signed on June 4, 1805, which called for no further tribute. The treaty of 1796-97 had been annulled by the war. The treaty of 1805 does not have the passage: "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion," but its Article XIV is practically the same as the previous treaty's Article XI with that omission.Like the treaty of 1796-97 however, this later treaty also showed the government of the United States to be impartial in matters of religion--that it had no established religion, and that the question of religion and religious opinions was not to be considered in national affairs. It showed that it was not the policy of the government to compel those within its jurisdiction who are not Christians to act as though they were.

John Adams, in his proclamation of the treaty, said he had "seen and considered the said Treaty" and "by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, had agreed to accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof." And even though the Barlow translation leaves much to be desired, the fact remains that it has been printed in all official and unofficial treaty collections since it appeared in the Session Laws of the Fifth Congress (1797) and in The Laws of the United States, edited by R. Folwell (1799). Article VI of the United States Constitution made this treaty doubly binding by saying: "all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land, and the judges in every State shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."

Thus Article XI was made valid for the United States, and it should now be treasured as a basic document for the American doctrine of the separation of Church and State.

 It already is treasure by all that want to maintain the separation of church and state, and who want God to be silenced, hoping to convince others that there was no intention in our founders to keep God in the midst of the foundation and principles of the USA.  Well they are wrong. Looking for loopholes. These brave men mentioned God in everything and almost every document, especially on the atheists beloved MONEY "IN GOD WE TRUST" in caps and the word LIBERTY, our liberty comes from our trust in God. Watch the US deteriorate as we discount God, the two go hand in hand!

Sunodino travails...
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15
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« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2003, 01:57:26 PM »

Good Afternoon,
                    I am taking a break from intergers postives neg absolute values.....which I am finding to be a real pain in the backside right now......

My next vicitm.......HAAAHEEEE.........ok ok enough.

Benjamin Franklin, One of the most famous men to have singed the Declaratoin of Independence, and the Sonstitution of the US. He founded the University of Pennsylvania, was a scientist, aurthor, and printer, he was also Gove of Pennsylvania.
       As Governer 1748 he porposed a day of fasting and prayer,
         It is the duty of mankind on all suitable occasions to acknowledge their dependence on the Divine Being......that Almighty God would mercifully interpose and still the rage of war among the nations....that he would take this province under His protection, confound the designs and defeat the attempts of its enemies, and unite our hears and strengthen our hand in every undertaking that may be for the public good, and for our defense and sceurity in this time of danger.

From Benjamins autobiography:
          I have been religiously educated as a Presbyterian, and ...I was never without relegious principles.
    I never doubted, the instance the existence of the Deity, that he made the world and governed it by his Profidence, that the most acceptable service of God was the doing good to man, that our souls are immortal, and that all crime will be punished, and virtue reward, either here or hereafter.
      These I esteemed the essentials relegion, and being to be foudn in all the religions we had in our country, I respected them all, though with differnet degrees of respect, as I found them more or less mixed with other articles, which without any tendency to inspire, promoste or confirm morality, seved principally to divide us, and made us unfriendly on one another.
        This respect of all.....induced me to avoid all discourse that might tend to lessen the good opinion another might have of his own religion, and as our province incrased in people and new places of worship were continually wanted and generally erected by voluntary contribution, my mite for such purpose, whatever might be the sect was never refused.

         Though I seldom attended any public worship, I had still an opinion of its propriety, and of its utlity when rightly conducted, and I regularly paid my annual subscription for the support of the Presbyterian minister or meeting we had in Philadelphia. he used to visit me sometimes as a friend, and admonish me to attend his administration.

          Well dear ole Ben, didnt like to attend church. BUT he payed his tithes. Believed in God, and thought that each relegion had some place of respect in this country. Benjamin Franklin sounds alot like many people of today. Well church is important, but I'll stay home on SUnday and watch the football game so I can tell Pastor about it.....lol....
       Benjamin Franklin was appointed to a committee to make a seal for the USA. They wanted something that would  capture the spirit and character of this New nation.
        Franklin suggested this
                     Moses lifting up his wand, and dividing the Red Sea, and Pharaoh in his chariot overwhelmed with the waters. This motto ," Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God".


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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2003, 12:22:11 AM »

Benjamin Franklin cont................

A letter written to the Ministry of France:
        Whoever shall introduce into public affairs the principals of the primitive Christanity will change the face of the world.
         A bible and a newspaper in every house a good school in every district-all studied and appreciated as they merit-are the  principal support of virtue, morality, and civil liberty.

Printed by B Franlkin
       "Information to Those Who Would Remove to America." for Europeans who were considering coming to America.
       Hence bad examples to youth are more rare in America, which must be a comfortable consideration to parents. To this may be truly added, that serious religion, under its various denominations, is not only tolerated, but respected and practiced.
       Atheism is unknown there, infidelity rare and secret, so that persons may live to a great age in that country without having their piety shocked by meeting with either and Atheist or an infidel.
        And the divine Being seems to have manifested his approbation of the mutual forbearance and kindness with which the different sects treat each other, by the remarkable prosperity with which He has been pleased to favor the whole country.

         June 28, 1787 The Constitutional Convention in a dispute. B Franklin spoke this to the delegates,
      In the beginning of the contest wtih Great Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayer in this room for the Divine protection. Our prayers, sir were heard and they were gracioulsy answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending proidence in our favor.
     To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful Friend? Or do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?
      I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise with out His aid?
      We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of babel. We shall be divided by our partial local interests. Our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages......
        I therefore beg leave to move- henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service.

WOW a very powerful speeck that Benjamin delivered......a good place to stop for tonight.......... my own thought here
Seems that they do say prayer each morn, before conducting business of the nation. I wonder if anyone is really listening to those prayers.......more so, Does God hear them anymore, or has he had to turn a deaf ear to the reprobate request brought before the governing council? Do we not need to pray in the will of God? Don't pray out of habit, or tradition, pray for the reason that Mr Franklin said he was afraid would happen, our own agenda getting in the way of what the Almighty desires.......sigh. good evening          

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