Am I a Legalist ?

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen Pilgrim!

The law of love is the greatest law of all and there is no greater love than that Jesus Christ has for us.

[Kris777]

Even though you guys say that the 10 commandments were done away with at the cross I still feel that I should follow them, not as a way of salvation, but as a guideline (along with other teachings of Christ in the Bible) to live my life.  I feel that our lives have to stick out some way from the ways that the unsaved live.  And that way is to live the best way that I can be imitating Christ.  When ever anyone is turned off from Christianity it is usually by Christians that are only "Christian" on Sunday and then live a destructive life the other six days of the week.

[airIam2worship]

Amen Pilgrim!

The law of love is the greatest law of all and there is no greater love than that Jesus Christ has for us.

Amen PR, without love it would be impossible for any one to live in accordance to any part of God's Word.

It is love that motivates people to do what is right towards others, without love there is no fear of God and without a fear of God, there is nothing but an inclination to continue sinning and soing nothing but evil.

It is love that keeps people bonded to God, God is Love.

[Soldier4Christ]

Even though you guys say that the 10 commandments were done away with at the cross I still feel that I should follow them, not as a way of salvation, but as a guideline (along with other teachings of Christ in the Bible) to live my life.  I feel that our lives have to stick out some way from the ways that the unsaved live.  And that way is to live the best way that I can be imitating Christ.  When ever anyone is turned off from Christianity it is usually by Christians that are only "Christian" on Sunday and then live a destructive life the other six days of the week.

Trying to follow them is one thing. Making them a requirement to do is something else entirely. However if we follow what Jesus said about the commandments we cannot go wrong. All the commandments are based on love. If we do and say all things out of our love for Jesus Christ and reflect the love that He has for all then we have followed His commandments. As long as we are in the flesh we will have our failures for none is righteous.



Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

[Pilgrim]

Even though you guys say that the 10 commandments were done away with at the cross I still feel that I should follow them, not as a way of salvation, but as a guideline (along with other teachings of Christ in the Bible) to live my life.  I feel that our lives have to stick out some way from the ways that the unsaved live.  And that way is to live the best way that I can be imitating Christ.  When ever anyone is turned off from Christianity it is usually by Christians that are only "Christian" on Sunday and then live a destructive life the other six days of the week.

The Israelites thought that they could obtain righteousness by the deeds of the law.  Romans 9&10 tells us they deceived themselves on this point and missed out on true righteousness that comes through faith in Jesus Christ.

Rom 9:30 “What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31  But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32  Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33  As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Rom 10:1  Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2  For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3  For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5  For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.”



Below is a quote from “Subverters of Souls”  http://www.nlbchapel.org/Subverters.htm


   “Law and grace cannot be mixed. Living by law will bring damnation and death, living by grace will bring life and a clear conscience before God. Those who teach righteousness through law keeping, subvert the souls of those who foolishly listen to them, those who teach salvation by the grace of God, bring the words of life to those who will listen to them.

Gal. 3:1 “O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?  2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?  3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?  4  Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if [it be] yet in vain.  5  He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”

    Those who teach and hold that Christians must keep the law of Moses would do well to pay attention to the apostle Paul in the above verses. Paul is so amazed that those who were on the right path to begin with are now far removed from the true gospel and have instead embraced a false gospel of law keeping. How can this be? Paul calls the Galatians, who think that they have to keep the law of Moses, foolish (verse 1,3). Paul goes on to demonstrate their foolishness by asking a couple of rhetorical questions. Any one who teaches that Christians must keep the law of Moses would do well to answer these questions as well. Paul first asks:

“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”

    This is a rhetorical question and the obvious answer is that anyone who is saved was saved by grace through faith and not by their own attempts at keeping the law of Moses as Eph. 2:8-10 declares. Paul then builds upon this question by asking another rhetorical question:

“Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? "

    In other words, are you so foolish in acknowledging that you were saved by faith to think that your sanctification  will now be made perfect by your fleshly attempts at keeping the law of Moses? Paul is teaching the Galatians by rhetorical questions that not only are they saved by faith but that their perfection is of faith as well. Our salvation is through faith and our Christian walk is by faith, not by the deeds of the law as false teachers would have you believe.

Gal. 3:11 “But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.”

[Allinall]

I think that there's an important factor often overlooked when debating on our responsibility in keeping the Law, whether it be the 10 commandments or otherwise.  That factor, is that the Law was not the Law apart from sacrifice.  The old sacrificial system was acceptable to God, but was not the perfect sacrifice that Jesus would supply with His death on the cross.  When He died on the cross, He "completed the Law."  As He'd said, He hadn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.  How?  By the sacrifice He made.

In making that sacrifice, Jesus completed the Law.  There is no Law that binds the New Testament believer, but Grace does.  If there were, the sacrifice would remain and Jesus died for naught.

Just a thought...

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

I think that many people connect the Ten Commandments with an attempt to avoid sin or not sin. Of course, there is no man who was ever able to keep the Ten Commandments, and we have a much better covenant with GOD.

In simple terms, there is nothing wrong with a Christian trying to avoid sin as long as they aren't trying to establish their own righteousness. Here, we know that no man has any righteousness except as filthy rags. The Holy Bible clearly warns us not to attempt to establish our own righteousness and to yield to the Righteousness of Christ.

There is a comparison that helps some people understand the difference between Law and Grace:

1 - LAW - The coldness of stone and the sure knowledge of failure - the curse of sin and death. In short, there is a COLD and sure condemnation. Boil it down to three words:  "Me and death".

2 - GRACE - The personal warmth of the Holy Spirit living in your heart and the sure knowledge that the Blood of JESUS CHRIST on the Cross bought you and rescued you from the curse of sin and death. There is no possibility of failure because JESUS CHRIST can't fail. In short, there is the warmth of GOD'S LOVE, GOD'S GRACE, GOD'S FORGIVENESS, AND GOD'S ACCEPTANCE. THERE IS NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST JESUS! Boil it down to three words:  "JESUS and LIFE".

Any Christian who understands this will obviously want Grace from GOD, knowing there is no righteousness or acceptance apart from BEING IN JESUS. I only want to be seen in or through JESUS CHRIST because I'm ugly, dirty,  and unacceptable any other way. I want to do and say only the things that please GOD because I love HIM and I know that it hurts HIM when I sin. BUT, I also know that regardless of how hard I try that my only goodness and righteousness is in JESUS CHRIST, my Lord and Saviour forever.

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 2:19-22 NASB  So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

[Allinall]

Amen Tom!

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen AMEN and AMEN!

Heb 7:19  For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


Gal 3:2  This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:4  Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
Gal 3:5  He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


PRAISE GOD THAT I AM MADE PERFECT THROUGH HIS WONDERFUL MERCIES AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS !! 

[RKJ]

Northstar,

Mt 9:16  No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse. {new: or, raw, or, unwrought}
Mt 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved. {bottles: or, sacks of skin, or, leather}

Old - Laws, rituals, etc...
New - Jesus and His work for us..in place of all laws etc....
Garment , Bottle - You and I

1.  When you try obeying all the laws and its implications it is - as pointed out clearly, impossible.  Suppose you do (or you think you did) obey all the laws, you would definitely become self righteous (aka Pharisee) and get puffed up.

There are laws given in the scriptures of other religions too.  Every person tries to fulfill them and fails.  Many think they do fulfill the laws by their own might and reject when presented Jesus.

2 . Instead when we obey the Holy Spirit (beleive in Jesus and His work on the cross) given to us that covers everything.

You cannot have both as master of your life, you will love one and hate the other.  If you still try to mix then  "the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish"

[Garden of Glory]

I am puzzled: If the 10 Commandments are so impossible to keep, why did God write them with His own Hand? Is it logical that He would punish those who did not keep an impossible Law? Would you do that to your child??

Striving in the Spirit to please Him by keeping His commandments before one's eyes, is the only way they can be kept. No human can do it without being born again and powered by the Holy Spirit. All human efforts are futile, as the history of the Jews and Spiritless christians has proven.

It's bizarre to me the big commotion in America over the public display and honoring of the Commandments by Christians is here in this thread  said to be "dead", "done away with", "impossible to keep", and causes folks to be "puffed up".....how can we expect non-christians to respect them when your answers here seem to say that Christians can toss them aside and lean on "grace"??


St John saw the saints in vision thousands of years from his day and they didn't ignore the Commandments, or is there a "grace" spin to this verse too?:

{Note: the "AND" is not optional in this verse}

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.[/u]

[Pilgrim]

St John saw the saints in vision thousands of years from his day and they didn't ignore the Commandments, or is there a "grace" spin to this verse too?:

{Note: the "AND" is not optional in this verse}

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.[/u]

If this is talking about the Ten Commandments then we are all damned. No one, born again or not can keep the Ten Commandments. That is why God's Word calls them a ministry of condemnation and death.

1Jo 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Here is the commandment of God that brings life rather than death.

1Jo 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

[RKJ]

It's bizarre to me the big commotion in America over the public display and honoring of the Commandments by Christians is here in this thread  said to be "dead", "done away with", "impossible to keep", and causes folks to be "puffed up".....how can we expect non-christians to respect them when your answers here seem to say that Christians can toss them aside and lean on "grace"??

The thread (most posts) strive to say that the commandments are obeyed when one accepts Jesus Christ.  Before that one would obey or walk accordingly under 'moral' or 'judicial grounds'.  It is hard enough

After accepting Jesus Christ a person is driven by Holy Spirit to obey the commandments by virtue.  This is not as hard as it may sound.

Obedience thus is the work of Holy Spirit than the work of the man.  when one thinks latter there is all possibility in the earth that he would become self righteous.

[Kris777]

I want to do and say only the things that please GOD because I love HIM and I know that it hurts HIM when I sin. BUT, I also know that regardless of how hard I try that my only goodness and righteousness is in JESUS CHRIST, my Lord and Saviour forever.

Exactly!  And it is when we show through our actions that we love God do the unbelievers take notice.  See that is what I ment in my post.  To live as Christ wants us to live, not to live as the world.

[Kris777]

I am puzzled: If the 10 Commandments are so impossible to keep, why did God write them with His own Hand? Is it logical that He would punish those who did not keep an impossible Law? Would you do that to your child??

The law I believe was written to show us the right way to live.  It was also written to show us how much we mess up and need a savior.  God knows that we can't live up to His standards and that is why He died for us.  So that He could offer a perfect sacrifice that would clean us of our sins and transgressions once and for all.