Saving Faith and Obedience

[ollie]

SAVING FAITH AND OBEDIENCE

Dan Petty

The doctrine of salvation by faith alone has been a hallmark of Protestant theology since the beginning of the Protestant Reformation with Martin Luther. Luther was especially emphatic in his assertion "that faith alone justifies us and fulfills the law" ("Preface to Romans"). In his Preface to the New Testament, Luther made the well-known statement that "the epistle of St. James is an epistle full of straw, because it contains nothing evangelical." By this Luther admitted that his own theory of salvation by faith alone clearly contradicted James' teaching (James said "not by faith alone" in 2:24).

By "faith alone" the reformers clearly meant belief or trust, apart from anything else. Obedience to them was, though important, definitely not compatible with the free grace of God and its acceptance by faith. So faith, unaccompanied by any work of man, brought man to salvation. The doctrine was accepted by most Protestant churches, and is still widely preached today. It is explicitly stated in many denominational creeds. In the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England, as well as in the Articles of the Methodist Church, is found the statement, "Wherefore, that we are justified by faith only is a most wholesome doctrine, and very full of comfort."

Very often in efforts to persuade people to obey the gospel of Christ, we have to confront this false doctrine. One mention of the command to be baptized, and many can (and will) quickly quote the phrase "saved by faith only" almost as if it were a part of Scripture. If only people could recite the Scriptures with such readiness! It's amazing, isn't it, how well we can learn the wrong lessons, and how poorly we learn those that are right.

We Christians need to be able to answer this and other objections to true obedience to God. Not only is the "salvation by faith only" doctrine not found in God's Word, the very opposite is plainly taught there. Notice these examples which show that true faith includes obedience.

1. In John 3:36, John wrote, "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (emphasis mine, dp). It is unfortunate this verse is not as well known as verse 16. Do you see the significant point of the passage? The words "believe" and "obey" are put in positions of equality. The writer is using the technique of repetition of the opposite as a means of emphasis ("he who believes...but he who does not obey"). The person who "does not obey" Christ does not truly "believe" in Christ.

2. Another good illustration is Hebrews chapters 3 and 4. In 3:18-19, the writer states: "And to whom did He swear that they should not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief" (emphasis mine, dp). Again, compare 4:2, where the Israelites fell in the wilderness because the word "was not united by faith"; and 4:6, which says they failed to enter the Promised Land "because of disobedience" (emphasis mine, dp). Please notice that in these passages, faith and obedience are used interchangeably; their disobedience was a manifestation of their unbelief. The point, of course, is that we must take care not to follow the same example of disobedience (4:11).

3. A third example is found in Acts 16:30-33, the conversion of the Philippian jailor. In reply to the question, "What must I do to be saved?", Paul and Silas told the jailor to believe. Many like to read this verse and stop; and then say, "He was only told to believe in order to be saved." Please read on, however, and observe that other things were told the man ("the word of the Lord"), after which he was baptized (which he could only have learned when they spoke to him God's word). But now look especially at verse 34: the jailor rejoiced greatly, "having believed in God." What did his believing include? It included obedience to the "word of the Lord." It included baptism.

Surely anyone can see the truth of these Scriptures clearly. They well illustrate the teaching of James, who taught that faith is "perfected" when it works through obedience (James 2:17-24). It is possible, of course, to have faith but not obey. Not all faith is obedient. But that kind of faith is not faith that saves. It is, as James said, "dead" faith. "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone" (v. 24). No wonder Luther deleted James, in effect, from his New Testament.

Our plea to those who still have not rendered the "obedience of faith" (Romans 1:5; 16:26) to the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that they will do so. Only in this way can they have the assurance of forgiveness of sins and eternal salvation in the final day (2 Thessalonians 1:8; 1 Peter 4:17). **



**http://www.geocities.com/Athens/6303/faithobe.htm
 

[John the Baptist]

SAVING FAITH AND OBEDIENCE

Dan Petty

The doctrine of salvation by faith alone has been a hallmark of Protestant theology since the beginning of the Protestant Reformation with Martin Luther. Luther was especially emphatic in his assertion "that faith alone justifies us and fulfills the law" ("Preface to Romans"). In his Preface to the New Testament, Luther made the well-known statement that "the epistle of St. James is an epistle full of straw, because it contains nothing evangelical." By this Luther admitted that his own theory of salvation by faith alone clearly contradicted James' teaching (James said "not by faith alone" in 2:24).

By "faith alone" the reformers clearly meant belief or trust, apart from anything else. Obedience to them was, though important, definitely not compatible with the free grace of God and its acceptance by faith. So faith, unaccompanied by any work of man, brought man to salvation. The doctrine was accepted by most Protestant churches, and is still widely preached today. It is explicitly stated in many denominational creeds. In the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England, as well as in the Articles of the Methodist Church, is found the statement, "Wherefore, that we are justified by faith only is a most wholesome doctrine, and very full of comfort."

Very often in efforts to persuade people to obey the gospel of Christ, we have to confront this false doctrine. One mention of the command to be baptized, and many can (and will) quickly quote the phrase "saved by faith only" almost as if it were a part of Scripture. If only people could recite the Scriptures with such readiness! It's amazing, isn't it, how well we can learn the wrong lessons, and how poorly we learn those that are right.

We Christians need to be able to answer this and other objections to true obedience to God. Not only is the "salvation by faith only" doctrine not found in God's Word, the very opposite is plainly taught there. Notice these examples which show that true faith includes obedience.

1. In John 3:36, John wrote, "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (emphasis mine, dp). It is unfortunate this verse is not as well known as verse 16. Do you see the significant point of the passage? The words "believe" and "obey" are put in positions of equality. The writer is using the technique of repetition of the opposite as a means of emphasis ("he who believes...but he who does not obey"). The person who "does not obey" Christ does not truly "believe" in Christ.

2. Another good illustration is Hebrews chapters 3 and 4. In 3:18-19, the writer states: "And to whom did He swear that they should not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief" (emphasis mine, dp). Again, compare 4:2, where the Israelites fell in the wilderness because the word "was not united by faith"; and 4:6, which says they failed to enter the Promised Land "because of disobedience" (emphasis mine, dp). Please notice that in these passages, faith and obedience are used interchangeably; their disobedience was a manifestation of their unbelief. The point, of course, is that we must take care not to follow the same example of disobedience (4:11).

3. A third example is found in Acts 16:30-33, the conversion of the Philippian jailor. In reply to the question, "What must I do to be saved?", Paul and Silas told the jailor to believe. Many like to read this verse and stop; and then say, "He was only told to believe in order to be saved." Please read on, however, and observe that other things were told the man ("the word of the Lord"), after which he was baptized (which he could only have learned when they spoke to him God's word). But now look especially at verse 34: the jailor rejoiced greatly, "having believed in God." What did his believing include? It included obedience to the "word of the Lord." It included baptism.

Surely anyone can see the truth of these Scriptures clearly. They well illustrate the teaching of James, who taught that faith is "perfected" when it works through obedience (James 2:17-24). It is possible, of course, to have faith but not obey. Not all faith is obedient. But that kind of faith is not faith that saves. It is, as James said, "dead" faith. "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone" (v. 24). No wonder Luther deleted James, in effect, from his New Testament.

Our plea to those who still have not rendered the "obedience of faith" (Romans 1:5; 16:26) to the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that they will do so. Only in this way can they have the assurance of forgiveness of sins and eternal salvation in the final day (2 Thessalonians 1:8; 1 Peter 4:17). **



**http://www.geocities.com/Athens/6303/faithobe.htm
 

*****
Ollie:
What do you read in Matt. 25's CLOSED door passage? This is clearly seen to be compared [to] the heavenly denomination's revolt? (testing) See verse 1. For they [ARE VIRGINS]!! Their testing was not that of false doctrinal teaching. The Bottom line is the ETERNAL WORD OF CHRIST telling [ALL] of His creation that WITHOUT [ME] YE CAN DO NOTHING & IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS! They TOO ARE ETERNAL! See Heb. 13:20. And the others WORLD'S' of Heb. 1:2 or Heb. 11:3! See Rev. 22:9. All of the LOST ONES [HAVE REJECTED CHRIST]!!  :' (See John 12:42-43 & Isa. 5:3 & then verse 7 for who it is that He is talking about. And this IS DONE IN FULL MATURE LIGHT!! A 'CLOSED DOOR' as in Gen. 4:7.

Its good to have [you] on this dark, dark, forum, good verses!

---John

[Whitehorse]

Hi, Ollie. If I'm remembering it right, Luther recanted that statement about the book of James, which is clearly inspired by the Holy Spirit. We are saved by faith alone, not by our works, but if we have faith, obedience is a natural consequence of that faith. Disobedient faith isn't faith at all, or is backslidden. Obedience is not contrary to the free grace of God but a natural fruit [i.e. Romans]. (I am Reformed.)

The gospel is replete with admonishions to repent, and warnings that the soul that sins will die. But we take it far too lightly here in America, because we're a rich nation, self-sufficient, and have bought into the deception of human sovereignty.

Please understand, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with riches- it is the love of money, not money itself, that is the root of all evil. (Job, Abraham, Lot, Solomon...all rich people given riches as a gift by God.)

[Ambassador4Christ]

"FAITH ALONE IN CHRIST ALONE"

[aw]

Saving faith is never alone. Works/obedience are not the CAUSE of salvation, but the RESULTS of it.

Besides, the obedience is the "obedience of faith."

A careful study of the word "OBEDIENCE" also means its definition is one of "listening and being attentive to" something. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

aw

[Whitehorse]

Wow, AW! That is a great point. That's neat about the hearing/obedience connection.

[aw]

I discovered that when one is attentive to the Word, it comes real to the person with the result that you just automatically "do" what was revealed to you.

A personal example: My battery went dead and I was unable to go to evening church services. i was complaining about it to the Lord but I picked up the bible and read where the Name of Jesus is above every name that can be named. (Phil 2:9,10) So, I went outside and spoke to the dead battery and said it could be named but Jesus' name was above it and so I commanded life to come into it. I got in my car and when I turned the key to crank it, that old jalopy almost jumped off the ground. The battery kept working until I gave the car away to a missionary and probably afterwards as well.

aw

[Petro]

Saving faith is never alone. Works/obedience are not the CAUSE of salvation, but the RESULTS of it.

Besides, the obedience is the "obedience of faith."

A careful study of the word "OBEDIENCE" also means its definition is one of "listening and being attentive to" something. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

aw

aw,

Amen..............

There is a sin that does so eassily beset Christians, and it is the one which cause us to take our eyes off of the Living Word of God.

I am convinced it is the same sin, which was committed at the Garden of Eden, disobedience , it causes our faith to waver, thus we don't do what we ought to do.

Thanks for your insight.

Petro

[Ambassador4Christ]

"For the preaching of the cross is to those who perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent" (I Cor. 1:18,19).
         
The world, with all its wisdom cannot save itself. It is
only Christ’s death on the cross that can save, for there our
sins were paid for, that we might be "justified freely by
[God’s] grace, through the redemption that is in Christ
Jesus" (Rom. 3:24).

[John the Baptist]

Saving faith is never alone. Works/obedience are not the CAUSE of salvation, but the RESULTS of it.

Besides, the obedience is the "obedience of faith."

A careful study of the word "OBEDIENCE" also means its definition is one of "listening and being attentive to" something. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

aw

aw,

Amen..............

There is a sin that does so eassily beset Christians, and it is the one which cause us to take our eyes off of the Living Word of God.

I am convinced it is the same sin, which was committed at the Garden of Eden, disobedience , it causes our faith to waver, thus we don't do what we ought to do.

Thanks for your insight.

Petro

*****
Hay you two, can you imagine Cain telling Christ that 'his believing faith' saved him, when he brought a disobedient fruit sacrifice? Sure ain't much differance than we see today, huh?

[Ambassador4Christ]

Saving faith is never alone. Works/obedience are not the CAUSE of salvation, but the RESULTS of it.

Besides, the obedience is the "obedience of faith."

A careful study of the word "OBEDIENCE" also means its definition is one of "listening and being attentive to" something. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

aw

aw,

Amen..............

There is a sin that does so eassily beset Christians, and it is the one which cause us to take our eyes off of the Living Word of God.

I am convinced it is the same sin, which was committed at the Garden of Eden, disobedience , it causes our faith to waver, thus we don't do what we ought to do.

Thanks for your insight.

Petro

*****
Hay you two, can you imagine Cain telling Christ that 'his believing faith' saved him, when he brought a disobedient fruit sacrifice? Sure ain't much differance than we see today, huh?

John "BOY" the baptist, You've traveled to another dimension; a dimension beyond sight and sound .....  

[geralduk]

Just because Luthor was wrong about JAMES does mean you can ASSUME he was wrong concernign "justyfication by faith"
For where as HIS faith was FOUNDED ON THE scriptures.
AND ACKNOWLEDGED NO OTHER AUTHORITY FOR IT.
Then we do not BLINDLY folow him as soem do the pope who does not.
But search the scriptures!
Now was PETER wrong when he said "thou art the Christ the Son of the living God"?
OF COURSE NOT!
Yet by YOUR logic he must have been !
The mistake Peter made was that he thought that the revaltion that he got was the WHOLE.
and when The Lord went to go "a little further" and reveal more it cut across peters thinking and revaltion!
and JUMPING TO THE WRONG CONCLUSION sought to disuade the LORD as to the truth.
Luthor had just come out or was coming out of romes bondage.
and the FOUNDATION of his understanding was faith and no works.
we are saved.

WHICH IS TRUE.

But james was NOT talking about the WORKS of the LAW bu the works PROCEDEING from FAITH.
Paul on the other hand was talking about the WORKS of the LAW.
Just because they are BOTH talking about WORKS does not meen they are both talking about THE SAME THING!

But where as Luthor being an honest man could be corrected as he held the scriptures as the FINAL authority  and tghe FOUNDATION of ALL true faith in God.
But the popes of this world counting THEMSELVES above the LAW and the scriptures and INFALLABLE CANNOT BE.
an they who folow them are as BLIND as they are.
But they who are justyfied by FAITH and it is by GRACE are we saved NOT works lest any man should boast.
have had thier eyes opened.
and have beennseald  with the SPIRIT of truth.
So they do not nor should folow BLINDLY those who preach but with the UNDERSTANDING and LED to WALK in the light EVEN AS HE IS IN THE LIGHT..." and so they who preach and they who hear are UNITED in "THE faith that was once and for all delivered unto the sainst..."
For it is or should be CHRIST who LEADS them both.
Both to preach and to UNDERSTAND the Word of God.

[ollie]

Being justified is living within the law, and today God's people are justified through grace by faith in Jesus Christ as that is the law given by God. God asks for obedience to and abiding in that law.

[John the Baptist]

Being justified is living within the law, and today God's people are justified through grace by faith in Jesus Christ as that is the law given by God. God asks for obedience to and abiding in that law.

*************
Well, just supposing??? Say that the Father gave His blessings upon John for his part in the baptizing of our Master, which He did! And John did accept Christ as the Son of God! (and again he did!)

Then John told a 'sordid' tale, just think about it! Adultery?? why that is from Christ' ten commandments! and it cost him his head, huh? Surely John was an legalist & deserved that! Who cares that he was 'converted at birth'? Luke 1:36 & 41)
He actually had no business telling Philip's wife Herodias, (or Philip) that they were breaking the law of God by living in adultary! Wow! How dumb of Him, huh?? Did he not realize that if he would just wait a [very short time] that his message would not have been TRUTH at all, or needed? Dumb John huh, he did not know that the law of God would soon be Voided out, done away with, and finished! Then adultary vanished into eternity by 'only beliving'! HOGWASH!

Beheaded? Well just 'censored' for starters! And we thought that [ALL] LAW WAS FINISHED?

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

HOGWASH! makes no sense at all, the pig simply gets dirty again minutes later, just like someone striving for self-righteousness under the law. The pig will always be dirty, regardless of how many times you wash it.