Apostolic succession

[LuckyStrike]

Greetings in the name of Christ Jesus, Allinall.

The number one problem with the concept of apostolic succession is the definition of an apostle.  An apostle was an apostle because:

1.  They personally witnessed the risen Christ.
2.  They were personally taught by Christ.
3.  They were personally called an apostle by Christ.

I disagree. You are equivocating the office of Apostle (Ephesians 2:19-20, see also Acts 1:21-22, 2 Corinthians 12:12) with the gift of apostleship (Ephesians 4:11-13, 1 Corinthians 12:28-31). Apart from the chosen Apostles (Mark 3:13-19, Acts 1:18-26, Acts 9:1-16, Romans 1:1, etc.), the gift of apostleship was given to James (Galatians 1:19), Barnabas (Acts 14:14), Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25), Silas and/or Timothy (1 Thessalonians 1:1 + 1 Thessalonians 2:7), and two unnamed believers (2 Corinthians 8:18-23).

What does the word "apostle" mean? The Greek word for "apostle" is apostolos (Strong's #652), which means:

"1. a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
a. specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
b. in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers
b1. of Barnabas
b2. of Timothy and Silvanus" (Strong's Lexicon)

"a delegate; specially, an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ ("apostle") (with miraculous powers):--apostle, messenger, he that is sent." (Strong's Greek Dictionary)

In essence, apostolos simply refers to "one sent forth," such as a messenger, delegate, or representative. However, the nature of this spiritual gift depends on situational context. Specifically, who does the sending? And why is a person sent? If you survey the Scriptures, you will notice that James, Barnabas, Epaphroditus, Silas, Timothy, and the two unnamed believers fulfill varying functions.

However, at the same time, I would agree that the gift of apostleship is a rare gift, which is counterfeited by many cults.

My problem with this "succession" is that in order for it to meet the defenition, both historically and scripturally, Jesus is still giving us further revelation.  This is, biblically speaking, heresy.

Agreed. Apostleship cannot be passed down in any form.

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

I would make this one real simple:  99% of those who call themselves Apostles today are involved in a con game - the other 1% are insane. I think that just about covers the entire 100%. This brings to mind a host of people making money by misusing the precious name of JESUS CHRIST. They will all meet JUSTICE at GOD'S appointed time.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 6:10-14 NASB  For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

[LuckyStrike]

Brothers and Sisters,

I would make this one real simple:  99% of those who call themselves Apostles today are involved in a con game - the other 1% are insane. I think that just about covers the entire 100%. This brings to mind a host of people making money by misusing the precious name of JESUS CHRIST. They will all meet JUSTICE at GOD'S appointed time.

I agree, yet disagree. Close-mindedness is equally erroneous as unquestioning gullibility.

To the contrary, the answer to counterfeit apostles is not a denial of Biblical apostleship in general, otherwise we unwittingly deny the power of God the Spirit. Therefore, let us test individuals on a case-by-case basis.

[nChrist]

I agree, yet disagree. Close-mindedness is equally erroneous as unquestioning gullibility.

To the contrary, the answer to counterfeit apostles is not a denial of Biblical apostleship in general, otherwise we unwittingly deny the power of God the Spirit. Therefore, let us test individuals on a case-by-case basis.

Hello LuckyStrike,

We'll have to agree to disagree then, and that's fine. I won't argue it with you. I'll simply say that GOD had a time, a place, and a purpose for many things that are PAST. I probably understand the basis for your beliefs, and you are welcome to them. I simply disagree and say that it's not a matter of close-mindedness, rather it is a matter of rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 10:29-30 NASB  "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. "I and the Father are one."

[Soldier4Christ]

I think the key words here are "call themselves Apostles". It goes hand in hand with those that call themselves prophets. It is a self-righteous, self-elevating action with an intent other than to serve the Lord. This is seen a lot today. The majority of these people have the intent to serve self or satan instead of God.

[nChrist]

Pastor Roger,

Brother, that's an accurate summary. The real shame here is the damage done to those who are lost and the babes in Christ. They offer ample evidence for unbelief, hypocrisy, and confusion. The cure involves the fact that Christians don't place their faith in men, rather we place our faith in One who never fails, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 18:2 NASB  The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

[Kelly4Jesus]

The cure involves the fact that Christians don't place their faith in men, rather we place our faith in One who never fails, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever.

Amen to that!!!! Many are being swayed by these rich, self-proclaimed profits. Benny Hinn being the first to come to mind. Because I put a prayer request in on his site at one time, I am unsuccessful in removing myself from his mailing list (even though I have threatened to report this to his server). I was told in the last message that, I wasn't following God's Will by giving money to the Hinn ministry and God, basically would punish me for it. Okay, not exact words but that is how it is given in context. How many do not have the believe in God--faith strong enough to read the Word or too desperate for help that they focus on people like this instead of His Face? I am afraid to know. If we just give that amount of ourself to Christ, these false prophets would go under completely and be exposed. The problem is that, today's society seeks immediate rescue and doesn't want to wait on God's timing in many circumstances. This is how false prophets get so rich and famous--along with being believed by their false miracles.

It is sad, but we must do all we can to keep everyone focused on Christ, and Christ alone. Without Him, there are no miracles. With Him we are healed, loved and provided for, as well in rich in a way that no money can ever come close to.

God Bless,
Kelly

[nChrist]

Amen Sister Kelly4Jesus!

It's a wonderful fact to know beyond any doubt at all that JESUS CHRIST will love us and hold us close to HIM for eternity. We know this even here in this short life. I can't imagine how beautiful this sure knowledge will be when the noise and evil of the world is gone, our last tear has been shed, and there will be nothing but peace, joy, and love forever!

We can dream about what it will be like as often as we want to, and I enjoy thinking about eternity several times each day. It makes me stop and give thanks. Just knowing about our real citizenship in Heaven does help to ease the pain of evil in this short journey here. We go back to the Bible and know that the suffering here is nothing in comparison to the joy that will be for eternity with JESUS!

We are talking about the deceptions and evil of men here, and I have one more thought that I'd like to share. We also have the Living Word of GOD, JESUS CHRIST, and the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD living in our hearts. GOD'S WORD is the ultimate source of truth, and it exposes the lies of men. Some people think of the Bible as just another book, but Christians should remember our living comforter and guide of those pages who lives in our hearts, the HOLY SPIRIT. The HOLY SPIRIT can test all things and guide us to the path that will be most pleasing to GOD. There is NO irony that path is also the best for us.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 12:2-3 NASB  "Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid; For the LORD GOD is my strength and song, And He has become my salvation." Therefore you will joyously draw water From the springs of salvation.

[Kelly4Jesus]

Hey brother Tom!
And to think that, our freedom was bought, not at a price of our own but by the Precious Blood of our Loving Savior, Jesus Christ! Yet, so many still feel they must purchase freedom from man, or find it in the promises of a false prophet. All they need to do is pick up the Bible. The Words in there can do so much more (infinite things) than the words from a person who also has his or her hand out for money! Our freedom is free. All we need to do is look Up and call out to our Wonderful Father! Praise Jesus!

After spending the whole day watching my kids, taking care of the house and then working throughout the night on my business, I went outdoors for my night time prayer. After praying, I felt the need to stay awake and just wait for God's Miracle to be shown to me--something I miss or take for granted every day. At the crack of dawn, I went out side and sat in the garden, watching God's nature come alive! How many times do we forget to take into account all the miracles, how simple they may seem to us, that He provides. Why pay for a picture show when we can go right outdoors and see God in all His Glory?  We get so busy in our daily lives--even debating this topic (lol) when we don't need to debate one thing, for it is well spoken--We are ALL saints in His eyes and all His children! Why even try to be anything else, when He has given us so much?

God Bless,
Kelly

[Shammu]

And to think that, our freedom was bought, not at a price of our own but by the Precious Blood of our Loving Savior, Jesus Christ! Yet, so many still feel they must purchase freedom from man, or find it in the promises of a false prophet. All they need to do is pick up the Bible. The Words in there can do so much more (infinite things) than the words from a person who also has his or her hand out for money! Our freedom is free. All we need to do is look Up and call out to our Wonderful Father! Praise Jesus!

God Bless,
Kelly

AMEN Kelly!!

[airIam2worship]

Amen to that!!!! Many are being swayed by these rich, self-proclaimed profits. Benny Hinn being the first to come to mind. Because I put a prayer request in on his site at one time, I am unsuccessful in removing myself from his mailing list (even though I have threatened to report this to his server). I was told in the last message that, I wasn't following God's Will by giving money to the Hinn ministry and God, basically would punish me for it. Okay, not exact words but that is how it is given in context. How many do not have the believe in God--faith strong enough to read the Word or too desperate for help that they focus on people like this instead of His Face? I am afraid to know. If we just give that amount of ourself to Christ, these false prophets would go under completely and be exposed. The problem is that, today's society seeks immediate rescue and doesn't want to wait on God's timing in many circumstances. This is how false prophets get so rich and famous--along with being believed by their false miracles.

It is sad, but we must do all we can to keep everyone focused on Christ, and Christ alone. Without Him, there are no miracles. With Him we are healed, loved and provided for, as well in rich in a way that no money can ever come close to.

Amen sister Kelly. Very well said.

 

Many are being swayed by these rich, self-proclaimed profits. Benny Hinn being the first to come to mind.

Sister Kelly, please forgive me, but I just found this to be a little amusing, I'm not knocking your spelling or anything, it's just the the connection really makes sense......
profit .............. prophet  I just thought that was cute.

[Kelly4Jesus]

 

OOPS! now I no how too spell! I went to collage!

Okay, had to put a joke in there. Seriously, I used to be a spelling bee champ. You can't tell that now, an you?

P R O P H E T S -- Prophets 
B E N N Y H. -- Profits

There, I think we got it now!

See what happens when you don't sleep? lol

God Bless,
Kelly

[Soldier4Christ]

OOPS! now I no how too spell! I went to collage!

Okay, had to put a joke in there. Seriously, I used to be a spelling bee champ. You can't tell that now, an you?

P R O P H E T S -- Prophets 
B E N N Y H. -- Profits

There, I think we got it now!

See what happens when you don't sleep? lol

God Bless,
Kelly

I do think it was an appropriate spelling.   

[ibTina]

To sum it all up.... to take your eyes off of JESUS... is a set up for failure!!

        In Christ.. Tina

[Shammu]

OOPS! now I no how too spell! I went to collage!

Okay, had to put a joke in there. Seriously, I used to be a spelling bee champ. You can't tell that now, an you?

P R O P H E T S -- Prophets 
B E N N Y H. -- Profits

There, I think we got it now!

See what happens when you don't sleep? lol

God Bless,
Kelly

I agree, that is very appropriate, Kelly. As for sleep, whats that?