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Author Topic: Eschatology, The Bible and The Koran  (Read 4017 times)
Soldier4Christ
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« on: March 03, 2006, 11:20:44 AM »

This thread is being placed in the Bible Study area for a purpose. As with all threads in this area it is strictly for Christians only. It is NOT in anyway to be construed as a support for the teachings of the Koran. Any posts made in support of the Koran will not be allowed. Such posts will be deleted and the person posting it may be banned without warning.

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"Disrespect, mockery, or blasphemy of Almighty God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Holy Bible, and Christianity are not permitted here. This would include the user name, anything in the user's profile, anything the user might post, and links to other sites that contain such material. Prohibited material obviously includes cursing, profanity, and "fill-in-the-blank" messages that suggest this material. Prohibited material also includes promotion or defense of alternate lifestyles, other religions, atheism, humanism, or other beliefs that are contrary to the teachings of the Holy Bible. Material of such types will be edited or deleted and the user may be banned. These and other rules posted by the Administrator of Christians Unite are final and not subject to debate."


ADDITIONAL BIBLE STUDY AREA RULES: Posting and participation in the Bible Study Area is for Christians ONLY. We would like this area to be permanent and one of the most popular on Christians Unite. The key to achieving this goal is how we as Christians will handle disagreements. Disagreements should be handled in a gentle manner with Christian Love, a manner that would honor and please Christ in the study of HIS HOLY WORD.


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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2006, 11:22:45 AM »

First I want to point out some things the koran says about the end times then I would like for us to point out the truth from the Bible. There are others here that are much more proficient in the Biblical end times message than I am so please step in and give me a hand where you are able.

There are three key figures for the end times in the koran.      Al-Dajjal which means "Imposter" the koran says he is the antichrist.  Al-Mahdi, the word mahdi means "The Guided one". Isa. This is the aramaic word for Jesus. The following is an excerpt taken from an un-named web site that portrays a rough chronological order of events according to the koran.



# "Al-Dajjal will come, claiming to be God holding Heaven and Hell. His purpose is to deceive, and unbelievers will follow him. He is short, red-faced, blind in the right eye, and has hair which sticks up. He will go around the world, but will be unable to enter Madinah or Makkah." [There are numerous detailed ahadith on this man.]
# "Al-Mahdi will come at the time of Al-Dajjal. He will call to the true Islam, and will be a military leader. His name will be exactly like that of the Prophet: Muhammad ibn Abd-Allah, and his father's name will match the Prophet's father's name also. He will be descended from Fatima, the daughter of the Prophet."
# "Isa (Jesus) will come at the time of Al-Dajjal and al-Mahdi as well. He will descend at the time of Fajr prayer on a masjid in Damascus, the capital of Syria. He is of medium height, red-faced, and his hair is as if he just took a shower. He will call people back to Islam, but he will also be a military leader. The People of the Book will revert to Islam, and wealth will be super-abundant. Isa will break the cross, kill the swine, and personally slay Al-Dajjal. He will stay on Earth for a long time thereafter, and then die."
# "An animal will come and call people back to Islam." [A partial description of this animal is that it is very hairy, so much so that one will not be able to tell its front from its rear (Arabic: 'Dab-ba'). Reference to this animal is mentioned in the Qur'an.]
# "Gog and Magog (two hidden tribes of people) will break free of the dam that holds them back, and ravage the earth. They will drink all the water, and kill people until Allah sends against them a worm which will wipe them out." [This is roughly before/during the time of Isa, although it is not entirely clear.]

After Isa has died allah supposedly then destroys all angels and the contents of the earth spill out.

Does anybody else see through these lies and see a correlation to Biblical prophecy here yet?

Now we know that Jesus Christ does not set foot on earth prior to the start of this battle as the koran indicates nor does He show up at the same time as the antichrist so we know this to be false right off. We also know that Jesus does not die. Now is it just me or is there a connection here to three leaders mentioned in Biblical prophecy? I believe there is. This is the reason that those following islam will be deceived by the antichrist. I also believe, as is evidenced in world events, that islam is working right now to bring these things about because they are taught that islam will rule the world.



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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2006, 01:06:11 PM »

In reference to Al-Dajjal; Revelation 13:3 And one of his heads seemed to have a deadly wound. But his death stroke was healed; and the whole earth went after the beast in amazement and admiration.
Zechariah 11:17 Woe to the worthless and foolish shepherd who deserts the flock! The sword shall smite his arm and his right eye; his arm shall be utterly withered and his right eye utterly blinded.

As I have said before the koran, (quran) takes the whole and discards, what they want. Here by breaking Revelation 22:19 And if anyone cancels or takes away from the statements of the book of this prophecy [these [a]predictions relating to Christ's kingdom and its speedy triumph, together with the consolations and admonitions or warnings pertaining to them], God will cancel and take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the city of holiness (purity and hallowedness), which are described and promised in this book.
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2006, 01:20:13 PM »

Amen brother, they indeed will suffer greatly and so will those that follow such teachings.

Did you consider Daniel 7 in comparison to the three mentioned in the koran and how easy it is for those in islam to be deceived because of this? For this reason I consider the koran as being the enemies war plans.
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2006, 01:28:45 PM »

When Jesus returns to the Mt. of Olives he will arrive from the direction of Edom (Southern Jordan)---with the blood of his enemies spattering his garments. He will bring with him the remnant of believing Jews who fled earlier to Jordan at the midpoint of the tribulation period.

During the Olivet Discourse, Jesus describes his future public return in these words, Matthew 24:29-31  29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn and [a]beat their breasts and lament in anguish, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliancy and splendor].  31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect (His chosen ones) from the four winds, [even] from one end of the [b ]universe to the other.

Though we know, Jesus is alive, and waiting for release from the our Father.

Most important of all;  Ignore, reject, or distort God's truth and you risk missing out on God's plan. You risk having to endure the terrors described in the book. You risk losing out on your portion of the tree of life and the beautiful Holy City. Believe it-because Jesus is coming soon! He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

I have to gather my thoughts and pray on this more. I know I can do better, then this. As this is weighting heavy on me now. I keep wanting to go off topic.
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2006, 02:54:30 PM »

A bit of a question; I remember learning somewhere that Islam came from the line of Ishmael in Genesis 16.  I don't remember the source, but is that correct?  I am reminded of what the angel said to Hagar, ""You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the Lord has heard of your misery.  He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers." (16:11-12)

Forgive me if this is a bit off topic.   Cheesy Though it does kind of speak as to why the Quar'an has the differences it does.
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2006, 03:10:40 PM »

A bit of a question; I remember learning somewhere that Islam came from the line of Ishmael in Genesis 16.  I don't remember the source, but is that correct?  I am reminded of what the angel said to Hagar, ""You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the Lord has heard of your misery.  He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers." (16:11-12)

Forgive me if this is a bit off topic.   Cheesy Though it does kind of speak as to why the Quar'an has the differences it does.


You are correct. Not only as to why the koran is the way it is but also why these people have problems even amongst themselves.

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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2006, 11:52:16 PM »

Israel exists by Divine Right, confirmed in both the Bible and Qur'an. I find in the Qur'an that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle therein (Qur'an Sura 5:21) and that before the Last Day He will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of their Land, gathering them from different countries and nations (Qur'an Sutra 17:104). Consequently, as a Muslim who abides by the Qur'an, I believe that opposing the existence of the State of Israel means opposing a Divine decree.

Every time Ahabs fought against Israel they suffered humiliating defeats. In opposing the will of God by making war on Israel, Arabs were in effect making war on God Himself. They ignored the Qur'an and God punished them. Now having learned nothing from defeat after defeat, Arabs want to obtain through terror what they were unable to obtain through war: the destruction of the State of Israel. The result is quite predictable. As they have been defeated in the past, the Arabs will be defeated again.

In 1919, Emir Feisal (leader of the Hashemite family, i.e., the leader of the family of the Prophet muhammad) reached an Agreement with Chaim Weizmann for the creation of a Jewish State and an Arab Kingdom having the Jordan River as a border between them. Emir Feisal wrote, "We feel that the Arabs and Jews are cousins in race, having suffered  similar oppressions at the hands of powers stronger than themselves, and by a happy coincidence have been able to take the first steps towards the attainment of their national ideals together. The Arabs, especially the educated among us, look with the deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement."

In Feisal's time, none claimed that accepting the creation of the State of Israel and befriending Zionism was against Islam. Even the Arab leaders who opposed the Feisal-Weizman Agreement never resorted to an Islamic argument to condemn it. unfortunately, that Agreement was never implemented, since the British opposed the creation of the Arab Kingdom and chose to give sovereignty over Arabia to Ibn Sa'ud's marauders, i.e., to the forefathers of the House of Sa'ud.

When the Saudis started ruling an oil-rich kingdom, they also started investing a regular part of their wealth in spreading Wahhabism worldwide. Wahhabism is a totalitarian cult that stands for terror, massacre of civilians, and for permanent war against Jews and Christians, and non-Wahhabi Muslims. The influence of Wahhabism in the contemporary Arab world is such that many Arab Muslims are convinced that in order to be a good muslim, one must hate Israel and hope for its destruction.

Incidentally, in countries where Wahhabism did not spread, this idea is not rooted. An organization called "Muslim for Israel" was recently founded in Canada. A pro-Israeli Muslim journalist from Canada tells that some muslims support her openly, yet many more Muslims tell her, "We are with you, but are afraid to tell it." The same happens to me.

Al-Qaida is a Saudi organization, created by the House of Sa'ud, funded with petro-dollars profits by the House of Sa'ud and used by the House of Sa'ud for acts of mass terror primarily against the West, and the rest of the world as well.

As Pastor Roger asked, does anybody else see through the lies. A correlation to Biblical prophecy here yet?
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« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2006, 08:55:16 AM »

Brother, maybe I'm just cross eyed this morning, or not coherent enough to make sense of this yet, but a few comments left me scratching my head here.....

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Consequently, as a Muslim who abides by the Qur'an, I believe

 Huh

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A pro-Israeli Muslim journalist from Canada tells that some muslims support her openly, yet many more Muslims tell her, "We are with you, but are afraid to tell it." The same happens to me.

Surely I misread what you meant here, but it sounds like you are claiming to be muslim  Huh   Say its not true!  Cheesy   Me thinks I need another cup of coffee  Wink


Some interesting points have been brought up non the less.    I certainly have been pondering all that is happening as of late trying to find some connection with prophetic scriptures in relation to islam.   Whether or not islam is the catalyst that will send the world headlong into the tribulation or not I don't know.   I believe much is still missing from the picture to make this claim as of yet.  However, clearly the devil is using islam to further his grip on this world.  And it seems obvious thus far that islam will play a role in some shape or form in the end.   

As mentioned before, when my parents went to Trinidad west indies as missionaries, I was forced to attend a muslim school.   Of course those days had not yet revealed the violence we see today from this group.   Being in that setting, I had the opportunity to witness to a few muslims in person and just recently via e-mail.    Muslims will tell you that one cannot glean any so called truth from the koran in english, saying it does not translate right.   Yet interestingly, all the muslims I have spoken with (except one) all speak only english....lol    My question is, how are they getting truth if they can't speak the dialect the koran was written in?   Much like catholicism in the middle ages, their religion is spoon fed to them from their religious leaders and they follow blindly.

The main argument a Christian will face when witnessing to muslims is, how do you know what the truth is?  For muslims, their ONE claim to the authenticity of the koran is, "no one can make a verse like one of the Suras". Huh      Also interesting is, in the koran itself, it tells its followers that they are to adhere to Biblical prophets and believe them, yet, today they will tell you that the Torah has been altered by the Jews, and the Bible by Christians.   Yet in recent months, some muslims are calling for the re-writing of history to omit the holocaust.    Roll Eyes     I wonder why the koran does not mention this tampering.   If no one can make a verse like one of the surahs, why would it tell its readers to abide by Biblical prophets if they were going to tamper with its writings?    Surely the god of islam is knowledgeable to know this would happen  Wink


I know I have ventured off topic from eschatology here, but just wanted to add some other food for thought to start off with.


Pastor Roger and Dreamweaver have already given a lot of information on this I was not aware of.   Certainly some interesting correlations regarding end times.   Hal Lindsey has been hammering away at this since the early 70's.   I personally believe Islam will most likely play a major role in the endtimes.   While many of these things seems to be brewing just under the surface, I believe when God removes the Church and finally turns His focus back on Israel, islam will certainly be one of the greatest tools at Satans disposal to attack Gods agenda.


Maranatha!
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« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2006, 10:24:49 AM »

Brother, maybe I'm just cross eyed this morning, or not coherent enough to make sense of this yet, but a few comments left me scratching my head here.....

 Huh

Surely I misread what you meant here, but it sounds like you are claiming to be muslim  Huh   Say its not true!  Cheesy   Me thinks I need another cup of coffee  Wink





I think and hope that we have some cut and paste there that isn't marked as such.   Wink Wink  Shocked Shocked Grin Grin


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« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2006, 10:42:09 AM »


I certainly have been pondering all that is happening as of late trying to find some connection with prophetic scriptures in relation to islam.   Whether or not islam is the catalyst that will send the world headlong into the tribulation or not I don't know.   I believe much is still missing from the picture to make this claim as of yet. 


The very reason that I brought this study up. I found it interesting that the koran points out three leaders in the end times and that the Bible points out three horns (leaders). There are some stark differences as to who these leaders are though. This is where those following the koran will be deceieved. I also find it interesting that just recently there was a group stating that the world would be go to one single rule under islam. This rule called the Khalifate features a leader, known as a Khalif (the title literally means the successor to Mohammed), who heads worldwide Islam. Assisted by a ten-man council (kings or leaders), his decisions are totally binding on all Moslems. Looking at other things that are happening right now this one world rule looks like a very good posiibility of happening.

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« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2006, 02:17:57 PM »


The very reason that I brought this study up. I found it interesting that the koran points out three leaders in the end times and that the Bible points out three horns (leaders). There are some stark differences as to who these leaders are though. This is where those following the koran will be deceieved. I also find it interesting that just recently there was a group stating that the world would be go to one single rule under islam. This rule called the Khalifate features a leader, known as a Khalif (the title literally means the successor to Mohammed), who heads worldwide Islam. Assisted by a ten-man council (kings or leaders), his decisions are totally binding on all Moslems. Looking at other things that are happening right now this one world rule looks like a very good posiibility of happening.



Very interesting....I had not heard this either!



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I think and hope that we have some cut and paste there that isn't marked as such.

Yeah me too! lol   I'm sure its something like that.
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« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2006, 03:11:02 PM »


I think and hope that we have some cut and paste there that isn't marked as such.   Wink Wink  Shocked Shocked Grin Grin



Part of that is from a e-mail, I am witnessing to in Canada. He is muslim, I am Christian. He is trying to sell me on the muslim faith, while I am showing him, the truths in the Bible. So far, I have out shown him, on how inaccurate the koran is.

This is some of the things, I've been involved in lately witnessing to muslims.
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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2006, 08:30:58 PM »

Part of that is from a e-mail, I am witnessing to in Canada. He is muslim, I am Christian. He is trying to sell me on the muslim faith, while I am showing him, the truths in the Bible. So far, I have out shown him, on how inaccurate the koran is.

This is some of the things, I've been involved in lately witnessing to muslims.

That makes better sense now that we know that.

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« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2006, 08:16:54 AM »

Was checking out Hal Lindsey's site this morning.  His new article goes right along with the discussion started here.   There were a few items I am just now hearing for the first time also.   I will quote only a small portion of it.


Quote:

The largest sect of the Shias, called The Twelvers, believe there were 12 imams after Muhammad and that the last one, Imam Mahdi, still lives, but he cannot be seen until Allah determines it is time to prepare the faithful for Judgment Day.

The Twelfth Imam, according to Muslim scholars, is also pictured in the Book of the Revelation as the Rider on the White Horse in Revelation 6:2.    Shocked

Traditional Christian interpretation of Revelation 6:2 sees the Rider on the White Horse as symbolic of the antichrist's bloodless political rise to global power before unleashing the persecution of the Great Tribulation.

The rider on the white horse is followed by the Rider on the Red Horse;

"and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword." (Revelation 6:4)

Ahmadinejad believes the Mahdi will lead the forces of Islam to global conquest in a war that will cost the lives of a third of mankind. And he believes that he is destined by Allah to start that war.  Shocked

The diplomatic fiction is that the UN can somehow threaten or cajole him out of fulfilling his divinely-appointed destiny by a threat of economic sanctions. (Ahmadinejad is a religious aesthetic who lives in a tiny apartment and drives a 20-year-old car.)

And the plot continues to thicken.

Does this mean we are on the brink of the Gog-Magog War? It depends on how one defines 'brink'. Most interpreters of Bible prophecy put the Gog Magog War somewhere near the mid-point of the Tribulation Period, and there is an overwhelming body of Scripture to back up that position.

Other commentators put the Gog-Magog War somewhere near the beginning of the Tribulation Period, either just before, or just after, the Rapture of the Church. There is an equally impressive body of Scripture to support that position. As to which is absolutely right, it remains to be seen.

However, the Pentagon admits that even a successful massive airstrike against Iran's nuclear infrastructure won't end Iran's nuclear ambitions. At best, it might stall them for five years or so until they are able to rebuild.

Assuming the strike doesn't rebound into an all-out Islamic retaliatory war against the West, and, to this point, it isn't all that clear that it would. But it might.

And the clock just keeps ticking.

End Quote:

Entire article here : http://www.hallindseyoracle.com/articles.asp?ArticleID=12567



Some extremely interesting things going on there.   This Aman-Jihad dude is obviously twisted in the head, but some of the things he says is rather hair raising.   At this point I still hold that the EU makes a better case for what we understand of the final Kingdom mentioned in Daniel, but current islam overtones is making a strong case too...lol.   Perhaps islam winds up being the woman riding the beast?   Huh    Difficult call at this point, but I will say we are living in some interesting times here.   The devil seems to be working overtime as if he knows the end is in sight.   The pre-written history of Daniel and Revelation will rise to the surface as we get closer and closer.   

I can imagine Jesus is sitting on the edge of His throne waiting for the Father to say, "Its time to receive your Bride Son, lets bring Her home".

Maranatha!
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