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EndTimeAction
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« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2003, 07:34:09 PM »

Hello all,
Im new to this forum, actually this is my first post in any forum.
I agree 100% that we are not under the law of tithing. For some however, 10% of increase to their local church is a good place to start. I personally do not find anything "wrong" with tithing, it is a good prinsible to give 10% of our increase to the work of the church. But as we grow in muturity as a believer we must learn to be led by the Spirit in our giving of money, as well as all types of giving.
The interesting thing about tithing under the New Testament is that is almost absencent. I have found four different passages which mention the "tithe" in the New Testament.


Matthew 23:23: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others."

This is repeated in Luke 11:42. THis tithe was not money but was with garden herbs, Also the Mosaic Law was still in force. These Pharisees lived under a different covenant with different laws than the New Testament believer does. By Christ's death He inaugurated the New Covenant, thereby bringing about a change in the law (Lk. 22:20; Heb. 7:12).

Luke 18:12: "I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get."

In this passage Jesus is telling the parable about the Pharisee and the tax-collector. The self-righteous person trusts in something "he does" to be accepted before God, but he is not justified before God. Christ is speaking about a Pharisee who tithes living under the Mosaic Law, not of a Christian tithing under the New Covenant.


Hebrews 7:1-10: "For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace. Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he abides a priest perpetually. Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth of the choicest spoils. And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest's office have commandment in the Law to collect a tenth from the people, that is, from their brethren, although these are descended from Abraham. But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham, and blessed the one who had the promises. But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater. And in this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on. And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes, for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him."

This passage is showing us the excellence of Christ, who ministers as a priest far superior to the Levites. So this passage can not be used to enforce the tithe on Christians. It has nothing to do with Christian giving, but everything to do with the superiority of Christ.

There is not one word in all the New Testament to command that New Covenant Christians must tithe.

 The New Testament however gives us much instruction on the subject of giving.

Im short on time so I will finish my thought tommorow.
God Bless You All!
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« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2003, 05:51:25 AM »

Welcome aboard EndTimeAction, Grace & Peace

There is not one word in all the New Testament to command that New Covenant Christians must tithe.

The New Testament however gives us much instruction on the subject of giving.

AMEN!!!

Brother Love Smiley

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« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2003, 11:47:21 AM »

Oklahoma Howdy to EndTimeAction,

I sincerely hope you enjoy the Christian fellowship here.


Love In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2003, 06:57:24 PM »


The New Testament doesnt tell us to give 10% of our increase.          "Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver" (2 Cor. 9:7). The Old Testament tithe was required by law.  The New Testament teaching on giving focuses on its voluntary character. "For I testify that according to their ability, and beyond their ability they gave of their own accord" (2 Cor. 8:3).  We are free to give the amount we choose to give. If we want to give 10%, we are free to do so. However, if we decide to give 9 per cent or 11 per cent, or 20 per cent or 50 per cent, then so be it. Our standard of giving is not a fixed percentage point, but the example of our awesome Savior.       "For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich" (2 Cor. 8:9). Our standard of giving is Christ Himself, who did not give 10 per cent or 20 per cent or even 50 per cent, but 100 per cent! He gave everything He had, including His very life in order to redeem sinful men and women like you and me!


Peaople that have alot of money feel that if they just pay their ten per cent, God is pleased. But for a wealthy man to give ten per cent of his income may actually be displeasing to God if he is living a life of extravagant luxury, while giving a mere appeasment to the work of God and the needs of others. The will of God for this man may be for him to be giving 40 to 80 per cent of his income instead of ten per cent. We must be led by the Spirit through prayer as to how much money we shall give.

Those who are poor should not feel guilty if they are not able to give ten per cent of their income. It is true that God will honor and bless the man who gives sacrificially, but if an individual decides that he can't give ten per cent of his income and still meet his basic needs, he does have that liberty. After all, God has nowhere told Christians that it is their duty to give any fixed percentage point. Anyone who says so does not have an understanding of the scripture.

If it is true that tithing was part of the Old Covenant worship of Israel, and has no practical bearing upon New Covenant Christians, the question is, what does the New Testament actually teach about giving?

1 Corinthians 16:1-2: "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come." Paul directs the church of Corinth in their collection for the poor saints in Jerusalem to give proportionately to how they have prospered. Though there is no mention of the saints in Corinth giving a tithe, they are instructed to give proportionate to their prosperity. Those who have more to give should give more.


Acts 11:27-39: "Now at this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. And one of them named Agabus stood up and began to indicate by the Spirit that there would certainly be a great famine all over the world. And this took place in the reign of Claudius. And in the proportion that any of the disciples had means, each of them determined to send a contribution for the relief of the brethren living in Judea."  In other words, they gave according to their ability. Those with more money, gave more. Those with less money, gave less. Very simple.


2 Corinthians 9:7: "Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver." Paul tells the church to give what they have purposed in their heart. Notice that the Apostle does not tell them how much to give, or give them a fixed percentage. He simply tells them that whatever they have decided to give they should give. Notice that the apostle Paul leaves the amount up to the Corinthians. We are not to allow others to manipulate or intimidate us so that we give out of guilt or pressure.


Most churches that ive seen still teach the tithe. We are told that if we dont give our 10% that we are robbing God and that God will not and cannot bless us.  All of this runs contrary to the Apostle's teaching in 2 Corinthians 9:7 "let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." I personaly believe if we all were to do as Paul instructed, local churches would probably have more money coming in than they would preacing the tithe. People living under Grace are more likley to give more of their money than people still trying to live under the law. "For the law of the Spirit of life has set us free from the law of sin and death." Rom.




Acts 2:44-45 "And all those who had believed were together, and had all things in common; and they began selling their property and possessions, and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need."

1 John 3:17 "But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth."


Galatians 6:9-10 "And let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we shall reap if we do not grow weary. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all men, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith."


Philipians 4:15-18 "And you yourselves also know, Philippians, that at the first preaching of the gospel, after I departed from Macedonia, no church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving but you alone; for even in Thessalonica you sent a gift more than once for my needs. Not that I seek the gift itself, but I seek for the profit which increases to your account. But I have received everything in full, and have an abundance; I am amply supplied, having received from Epaphroditus what you have sent, a fragrant aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well-pleasing to God."

Luke 12:33-34 "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."


Ephesians 4:28 "Let him who steals steal no longer; but rather let him labor, performing with his own hands what is good, in order that he may have something to share with him who has need."
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« Reply #49 on: December 05, 2003, 11:11:18 AM »

Ephesians 4:28 "Let him who steals steal no longer; but rather let him labor, performing with his own hands what is good, in order that he may have something to share with him who has need."

A lot of pastors need to understand this verse.

Brother Love Smiley
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« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2004, 07:00:33 AM »

LOVE YOUR MONEY, not Christ, huh! Cry  If one LOVES Christ, Christ has BOTH THE MANS WILL & his $$$'s!! Then simple OBEDIENCE FLOWS FROM THE BORN AGAIN one heart!

Yet the 10% is not the only thing that is returned, huh?

---John

I sent all of my money to Oral Roberts, because he didnt want to go to heaven Grin Grin Grin

LOL Smiley Good one Ambassador

P.S. Amen to the study "NO MORE TITHING"

Your friend and brother

The Crusader
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« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2004, 08:10:31 AM »

I have seen a lot of quotes from the Bible, old and new Testament on what it has to say or not to say about tithing...  

   All I know is that God owns everything on this earth... and as someone said the New Testament teaches a lot about giving.. I know that there are charlatans out there who preach about a seed... and that if you give you will become rich beyond your wildest dreams.. and anyone who gives with that in mind is not giving as the widow gave... but to line their own pockets.

   Paul and the rest of the disciples counted on those who attended their "churches" to help each other and to send money to those who had none... sound familiar?  

   Our church has many wonderful programs of outreach and they need to be supported by our congregation to continue.  There are many trustworthy causes out there that could use our help.  The preacher needs payed, we are supposed to support our preachers, electric, gas, etc for the church.  Vacation Bible School, our MOPS group, Sunday School material, upkeep of the church... all kinds of things that are worthwhile and for the spread of the "Gospel"...

     I find that those who complain about tithing are either under the delusion that their money is their own, and God has no need of it.

      Or they just don't go to church anywhere, because they don't think that going to church is needed because they have all they need by being on the internet and reading and studying the Bible.  

     They know everything there is to know about the Bible , but they don't go out and become the light they are supposed to be. Being with other believers and supporting each other.

      The turn on the tv and  all they hear are the "preachers' out there on tv land who prey on those who have no church of their own... and they think that all churches and preachers are out to get their hard earned money, so they keep all of their money in the bank etc. and watch it grow as their hearts grow colder and colder..
  Joy
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« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2004, 11:08:01 AM »

It's not how much we give, but what that giving means:

Mar 12:41  And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
Mar 12:42  And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
Mar 12:43  And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
Mar 12:44  For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

What should we give? We give as God places on our heart. Sometimes it's more, sometimes less. We should be more concerned about why we are giving; out of love and obedience, or out of duty.

blessings
Gracey
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« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2004, 09:11:49 AM »

Hi Everyone  Cheesy

I used to believe that tithing was for today but am thankful I came to learn the truth that its not. One thing though, I don't think anyone can refute I think the real issue even today with God is where is your heart. Do you look to God as your source of supply or merely your job? Im not saying God would say this to you but what if God said, "Hey I want you to give your whole paycheck away this week to the poor and I'll take care of you from another source as you trust me" would we be able to release to God what he asks? God gives us our jobs thats true but how much do you depend on it? If one truly sees their job as their source isn't that idolarty?      
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« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2004, 12:58:17 PM »

I had to come to almost the end of this post before someone actually "hit it on the head" [unendingjoy] about tithing. It's really sad that so many have becomed so attached to "thier"  money that they really think it's thiers! Some heart!
God doesn't need your money at all..It costs the church..all the expenses that you would expect..[Imagine that!] There is no need to list the expenses, you can figure that out.
You give out of your love for Jesus Christ and so that the whole world can hear the Good News..you give of yourselves in addition..and serve Him in all the ways He has equipped you. It's not that hard to figure out, if you truly love the Lord and know Him.
He can see through all excuses. Smiley  
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« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2004, 05:53:47 AM »

The Jewish Nation of Israel was not "created" until Mt Sinai, Ex 19:1-8; and was there formed from the well over 600,000 (Gentile) descendants of Jacob (Israel), during their 430 years of Egyptian captivity; Ex 12:37,38. All of those well over 600,000 (Gentile) souls came from the original twelve (Gentile) sons of (Gentile) Israel. At Mt Sinai those well over 600,000 (Gentile) souls entered into The Old Testament Covenant of Law with God. And in order "to administer" it's well over 660 commandments, judgments, and ordinances, God created The Levitical Priesthood out of one of those twelve sons of Israel; i.e., out of The Tribe of Levi.

Inasmuch as those Levites were required to devote their entire daily lives to the care and conduct of the Jewish Tabernacle, they were not given any portion of The Holy Land, so they could also support themselves. Therefore, it became necessary for the other eleven tribes of Israel "to fully support" the one tribe of Priestly Levites, Num 18:21. Thus, "the 10% Jewish income tax".

Nowhere in biblical history was anyone else ever "ordained" to collect the foregoing 10% tithe, except the Priestly tribe of Levites; e.g., Heb 7:5. This they did "ACCORDING TO THE (strictly Jewish) OLD TESTAMENT LAW OF MOSES"! That this was indeed "A JEWISH ORDINANCE", is plainly so stated in Mal 3:7-10. And that (all) such "JEWISH ORDINANCES" were completely "BLOTTED OUT" dejure, at Calvary, is also plainly so stated in Eph 2:14,15, Col 2:14, Heb 9:1-10.


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« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2004, 02:11:16 PM »

Quote
Nowhere in biblical history was anyone else ever "ordained" to collect the foregoing 10% tithe

Tithing is an Old Testament command that was for the Jews and was in reality their "taxation" system. The tithe consisted of:

1 Temple Tithe (Tax)
2 Land Tithe (Tax) Lev. 27:30-33
3 Sabbath Tithe (Tax)
4 Special Profit-Sharing Tithe (Tax)

The required giving for the Jew was approximately 25 percent per year. In addition to all of this there was voluntary giving in the Old Testament which included first fruit giving (Ex. 23) and freewill offerings (Lev. 22).


The old testament tithe was, in reality, a form of taxation for the support of the theocratic form of government. By the same token, the "tithe" today is in the form of taxes paid to the government for its support.

The New Testament does teach that a Christian should give to God but only in the sense that it is freewill giving from the heart. While no specific percentage is given, we are to give:

1. In response to need - Acts 4:35, Acts 11:27-29
2. In a systematic and purposeful manner - II Cor. 9:7, I Cor. 16:2
3. In a sacrificial way that "costs" us - Mark 12:41-44, Lk 19:8
4. In a secret and humble way - Matt 6:1-4
5. In a cheerful manner - II Cor. 9:7

The long and short....."tithing" to your local church, or denomination, is not scriptural.....giving is (as each purposes in their heart).

Unfortunately, a drawback is that too many "christians" sitting in the pews don't pay any attention to the New Testament where it says that "a workman is worthy of his hire", and determine to keep the preacher poor and dependent....and others think they need to put him up in a mansion with a silver Rolls Royce and a gold Rolex.   Angry
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« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2004, 12:31:46 PM »

I don't like debates and don't like to get into one.

All I know is that I have been a tither all my life and have seen God's tremendous blessings in my life because of that.

I encouarage others to tithe as I would love to see them get blessed in the prosperous kingdom of God.

Love,

Helen
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« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2004, 12:49:44 AM »

I can't believe what I've been reading here! I never thought I'd come across so many Christians who feel the tithe is not necessary anymore just because it was in the old testament. In all honesty it sound like all of you who are anti-tithe are trying to justify your reasoning for not doing it, just because it comes from the Old Testament. Should we then abandon the Ten Commandments because they are from the Old Testament and be allowed to murder, lie, covet, and the like?
I should hope not!!!

I do agree that bible doesn't specifically address tithing in the New Testament, but I did find this:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17

These are Jesus's own words.

In Christ Alone,

Stephen
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