Speaking in Tongues?

[Glory to God]

   Growing up I attended different types of churches, Babtist, Holliness Babtist, Methodist...etc...  I never really thought much about talking in tounges then. Now grown, saved recently, I am learning alot of things old and new. This is a subject I don't understand. I even researched on the internet, but I didnt get an answer. Is speaking in tougnes a gift from God....and all have the gift to do it? Or is it not that at all. Please share your views with me.  

[Jemidon2004]

Not all have the gift of tongues friend. Paul makes that clear in Ephesiahs 4 i believe if i remember correctly. "And He gave some gifts to be apostles..." and so forth. So no not all have the gift to do it. I really don't see the need for it other than the self edification some of these denominations so eagerly want. There are mulitple tongues threads on here somewhere, though I don't really know off hand where they're at. But it's my view that tongues have ceased overall because it became something of a self edification issue. I can see how one could become prideful because they had such a gift and someone else didn't. Just a few thoughts. God Bless

Joshua

[M]

There is much said about the gift of tongues in 1st Corinthians chapters 12-14.  Read these chapters over.  This explains what might be going on in some churches today.  However, some people want this gift so badly, they become good at faking it.  They just babble and disrupt the worship service.  There should be someone to translate and only one person should be speaking at a time.  

Acts 2 tells about the Apostles receiving the gift and being able to speak with people hearing them in their own language.   This seems more useful to me.  I haven't heard about that happening in any church today.  Some people do indeed have a gift for learning to speak foreign languages and speak well in public.  

I don't see any reference to tongues in Ephesians 4.  

[LiL-Christian]

[quote author=Jemidon2004  I really don't see the need for it other than the self edification some of these denominations so eagerly want. There are mulitple tongues threads on here somewhere, though I don't really know off hand where they're at. But it's my view that tongues have ceased overall because it became something of a self edification issue.

I really agree w/ you on that on. I've just recently been baptized in the Holy Spirit and am still a beginner at it. Maybe self-edification is good, but we also need to remind ourselves (we mean those of us that speak in tongues) of what the bible says of speaking in tongues. you listed one part about not everyone having that gift. In Acts then the disciples got together in that one house and the Holy Spirit met them all there, something happened. In this case what became in "inside the house" thing also went outside the house, somewhere in there it talks about how everything and everyone was still or something, im not sure i'll have to look into it. I personally believe that tongues is accociated w/ healing (doesnt matter what kind of healing.) Its a very powerful gift and one that you really have to be careful because the enemy can twist it and as you us not even understanding what we are praying out in tongues could turn into words of blasphemy or something.

[MalkyEL]

The tongues that is present today within the christian community is not of God.  The reason tongues was given was for the proclamation of the Gospel by the disicples who did not know the language of the nation they would be sharing with.

There is no scriptural proof for a personal prayer language.  When one is a believer in Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit indwells fully.  It is by God's Spirit that we are transformed and renewed by a refining process to do His will.  Speaking in tongues has nothing to do with this.  There is no power associated with tongues and this is not presented anywhere in Scripture.

Here is a link that gives the history of tongues in this country, where it originated from, and why it is not of God.

http://www.seekgod.ca/topicwaves.htm#tongues

imho, tongues is nothing more than a way for one to believe they are doing something to enhance their relationship with God.  It is an age old problem.  Rather than relying fully on God for His ability to grace us with insight and knowledge, man has fallen into pride and elevating his own "spirituality" to do something "for" God that He does not need and does not want.

shalom, nana

[LiL-Christian]

The tongues that is present today within the christian community is not of God.  The reason tongues was given was for the proclamation of the Gospel by the disicples who did not know the language of the nation they would be sharing with.

There is no scriptural proof for a personal prayer language.  When one is a believer in Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit indwells fully.  It is by God's Spirit that we are transformed and renewed by a refining process to do His will.  Speaking in tongues has nothing to do with this.  There is no power associated with tongues and this is not presented anywhere in Scripture.

Here is a link that gives the history of tongues in this country, where it originated from, and why it is not of God.

http://www.seekgod.ca/topicwaves.htm#tongues

imho, tongues is nothing more than a way for one to believe they are doing something to enhance their relationship with God.  It is an age old problem.  Rather than relying fully on God for His ability to grace us with insight and knowledge, man has fallen into pride and elevating his own "spirituality" to do something "for" God that He does not need and does not want.

shalom, nana

Maybe the tongues that we pray in today are nothing compared to the tongues prayed in back then. but we dont know that for 100% proof that back then God ONLY gave that gift to the apostals. Yes i believe that tongues comes out in many forms and patterns and all that. For instance I speak Russian and I can remember the very first time I heard someone speak in tongues, and this person doesnt speak Russian what so ever, but I heard (and Im telling you the truth) every single word that, that person prayed, I understood it very well 100% of it. I believe that, thats one way God STILL USES TO SPEAK THROUGH HIS CHILDREN therefore i cant say that tongues no longer exists to this very day. And yes I fully agree on the half that the enemy can use tongues for his own glory too, that you have to watch out for. But i can't say that tongues is all of the enemy. Dont forget these few verses in 1Corinthians below.

1 Corinthians 12:10

1 Corinthians 12:28

1 Corinthians 12:30

1 Corinthians 14:4

1 Corinthians 14:39

[bluelake]

  Growing up I attended different types of churches, Babtist, Holliness Babtist, Methodist...etc...  I never really thought much about talking in tounges then. Now grown, saved recently, I am learning alot of things old and new. This is a subject I don't understand. I even researched on the internet, but I didnt get an answer. Is speaking in tougnes a gift from God....and all have the gift to do it? Or is it not that at all. Please share your views with me.  

Glory,
there is some controversy about speaking in tongues. It occured at Pentecost in chapter 2 of Acts. These folks spoke in actual languages. Again in Acts 10:44 and Acts 19:6 These folks were all believers when they received this gift.
In the early church God was using signs to get the attention of certain people. Today we have the Bible.
You may want to read 1Cor.14 also 1Cor.12:28-30
Some churches teach that tongues are a required event to prove that a person is saved. That isn't true. We are saved by grace. Eph.2:8-9
The Bible also tells us that not all will speak in tongues.
The Holy Spirit gives His gifts as He determines. 1Cor.12:3
 Please read these scriptures. it will answer a few of your questions.

God bless you,
bluelake

[bluelake]

The tongues that is present today within the christian community is not of God.  The reason tongues was given was for the proclamation of the Gospel by the disicples who did not know the language of the nation they would be sharing with.

There is no scriptural proof for a personal prayer language.  When one is a believer in Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit indwells fully.  It is by God's Spirit that we are transformed and renewed by a refining process to do His will.  Speaking in tongues has nothing to do with this.  There is no power associated with tongues and this is not presented anywhere in Scripture.

Here is a link that gives the history of tongues in this country, where it originated from, and why it is not of God.

http://www.seekgod.ca/topicwaves.htm#tongues

imho, tongues is nothing more than a way for one to believe they are doing something to enhance their relationship with God.  It is an age old problem.  Rather than relying fully on God for His ability to grace us with insight and knowledge, man has fallen into pride and elevating his own "spirituality" to do something "for" God that He does not need and does not want.

shalom, nana

nana,
The link that you gave does not give a statement of their faith. Do you know who they are?
The tongues spoken today are glossolia.
 I have never heard of anyone speaking a real language. The term 'prayer language' isn't found in scripture. At least I don't think they use that term. Do you know?

God bless,
bluelake

[Layman Bairn]

I’ve been browsing this and other threads regarding tongues for a few weeks…finally decided to put in my two cents. I really don’t entertain the fantasy that anything I say will persuade the opponents of tongue speaking to reconsider their stance. I cringe at the statements so many make with such assumed authority.

YES. shameful, fleshly, embarrassing displays and performances under the auspices of tongue speaking and manifestations of the Spirit abound. It would seem the enemy has worked overtime in this area to divert many away from some of God’s greatest gifts….the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and accompanying helps. I’m grieved over the embarassment brought on the community of believers by the goofy antics of "out-there charismania”.

Leonard Ravenhill once said: “it’s time we decide whether the Bible is absolute or obsolete”. If  we decide it’s obsolete then I understand how picking, choosing or twisting scriptures to build our prejudiced cases is to be expected. But, if we hold that the scriptures are absolute, God breathed, living, eternal truth, perhaps we should lay our opinions and suppositions aside and willingly receive. If we choose a middle ground, between absolute and obsolete, between literal interpretation and whimsical, we then step onto the broad way of theological knit-picking….the primary tool of the enemy to cause division on the Christian landscape for two thousand years.

I will touch on a few quotes from this thread. I am leveling no personal attacks on anyone; in fact these quotes represent a remarkably accurate cross-section of the standard fare from the “tongues bad” faction.  


1 Cor 14:15-19
15. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17. For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

1 Cor 14:5
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. (KJV)

1 Cor 14:39-40
39. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40. Let all things be done decently and in order.
(KJV)



Many passages in 1Cor. are constantly used to support the idea that Paul is nullifying tongues and chastising the use of them. Paul is chastising the chaotic abuse of tongues and is teaching the way to conduct an orderly meeting, while yet affirming the value of tongues, i.e. (I would that ye all spake with tongues….)  (“forbid not to speak with tongues..”) That’s not my opinion, read it.

That Paul would rather they prophesy does not negate “I would that ye all spake with tongues….”. Shall we assume that the opponents of tongue speaking have rallied to what Paul “would rather”? and that prophesying is readily embraced in your meetings? I think not. Prophesying is another topic for yet another post. (if you’re reading, felix102, I know the value placed on all the saints prophesying where you meet). Everyone should do an intensive word study on “prophesy”.

MalkyEl wrote:
“There is no scriptural proof for a personal prayer language”

Bluelake wrote:
The term 'prayer language' isn't found in scripture. At least I don't think they use that term. Do you know?

True, The term “prayer language” is not used, but the reality of a personal prayer language is well documented. Again, the scripture… obsolete, absolute or twist to fit? You choose.

Paul makes an obvious reference to a personal prayer language. First he thanks God (he’s grateful for his tongue speaking). Paul could say to these Corinthians who were all about tongues, and over doing it to the extreme, “ I speak with tongues more than you all”! Then he says “yet in the Church…”.Paul spoke with tongues more than all these tongue fanatics, but he did it somewhere other than in the Church…Where? The market? Perhaps at tent makers conventions? Or…dare I say it…in personal prayer?. You tell me. The statements are clear: “ I speak with tongues more than you all”…. “yet in the Church…”

1 Cor 14:18-19. I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19. Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
(KJV)

Jude 1:20
”But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Shall we assume that Jude just means “praying”?, That whenever we pray it is “in the Holy Ghost”? Let’s not. Paul says: What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also” 1 Cor 14:15a. Sure does sound like more than one kind of praying.

1 Cor 14:27-28
27. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
(KJV)

 These verses concern tongue speaking. “to himself “ = private, personal, silently. “to God” = prayer….. Private, personal, prayer in tongues.

Jemidon wrote:
I really don't see the need for it [tongues] other than the self edification some of these denominations so eagerly want.

Jemidon uses “self edification” as though it means self-aggrandizement or some kind of selfish pursuit. Jude tells us:

20.”But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21. Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.” Jude 1:20-21 (KJV)

The words “building up” are from the same Greek root from which we get “edify”. Edifying ourselves is encouraged, it is needful. Yet in the church our concern must be to edify others.
(actually, and I vent, our concern in this day and age is to sit and listen to one person attempt to do all the edifying….another discussion)

M. wrote:

“Acts 2 tells about the Apostles receiving the gift and being able to speak with people hearing them in their own language.  This seems more useful to me.  I haven't heard about that happening in any church today.”

Dear M.:  Read LiL Christian’s quote below. It was posted two posts away from yours. Now you’ve heard. There are thousands of similar testimonies and thousands of Christians who ignore them.

LiL Christian wrote:
For instance I speak Russian and I can remember the very first time I heard someone speak in tongues, and this person doesnt speak Russian what so ever, but I heard (and Im telling you the truth) every single word that, that person prayed, I understood it very well 100% of it.

Finally, (and I must be approaching more like three cents):

Bluelake wrote: In the early church God was using signs to get the attention of certain people. Today we have the Bible.

This is the classic argument of those who oppose tongues and supernatural manifestations of God. There are volumes written along this thought line. It comes from this passage:

1 Cor 13:8-13
8. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
(KJV)

The language and sentence structure is very plain with a little study. Verse eleven is an illustration of the point being made. Paul is not saying he became a man and has now put away childish things like tongues…remember?  “…I speak with tongues more than ye all”? He is saying that now we are as children and are confined to these means, like tongues, prophesies and so on. It is such a stretch to propose that “that which is perfect” refers to the Bible. That which is perfect is the “then face to face” in verse twelve. Paul illustrates in verse eleven, the contrast between "now" with it’s “in part” and "then" with it’s “face to face”. The Bible is perfect, yes, but hardly the topic of this verse. Ephesians 4:13 defines very well the “then”:

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:  Eph 4:13  (KJV)

This is the “that which is perfect” which will come….it is when we are face to face with and have come “unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ”.

Diagram the sentences, read them as a paragraph. Studying the Bible is altogether a different undertaking than simply forcing scriptures, like puzzle pieces, to fit where they best support your view of reality. A friend and respected Bible scholar likes to borrow from his years in the info sciences when he says: ”If you torture the data long enough, they will say whatever you want them to”.

Agape

Bairn

[Reba]

There is much said about the gift of tongues in 1st Corinthians chapters 12-14.  Read these chapters over.  This explains what might be going on in some churches today.  However, some people want this gift so badly, they become good at faking it.  They just babble and disrupt the worship service.  There should be someone to translate and only one person should be speaking at a time.  

Acts 2 tells about the Apostles receiving the gift and being able to speak with people hearing them in their own language.   This seems more useful to me.  I haven't heard about that happening in any church today.  Some people do indeed have a gift for learning to speak foreign languages and speak well in public.  

I don't see any reference to tongues in Ephesians 4.  

 

Well said M,

I grew up in a Pentecostal church.  ( almost 60 years ago) Blessed to have been in a great Sunday school every week, Wednesday nite bible study, Sunday nite service, So very blessed to be a Pentecostal pastors kid,  .

I grew with tongues as a part of every day life in our home and church it was commonplace. I watched and learned i saw the lives folks led. I saw the "i speak in tongues so i am more spiritual than you" I saw wonderful (the term used at that time was) "God fearin” Christians live the Christian life. I have seen folks turn the tongues off and on like a switch. I was shocked to learn “ prayer language”  is not a scriptural term. Nor do I find “prayer language’ to be implied in scritpure. As for being new at it .... Isn't it a gift, there for not something learned?

As time went on I watched Daddy (the most Christ like man i ever knew) unconsciously ease back from the display of tongues as he became deeper in the Word. The more Christ like he grew, the less tongues.  As tongues was for the young church maybe tongues is needed for some young Christians.  I think of this then I know also there is not a  scriptural bases for “heavenly language”  Mind you I know

 1 Cor 13:1
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.


I just don’t believe it applies as many of us wish it did.  After saying much in the negative this is the scripture I will end with..


1 Cor 14:39

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
KJV  

[bluelake]

There is much said about the gift of tongues in 1st Corinthians chapters 12-14.  Read these chapters over.  This explains what might be going on in some churches today.  However, some people want this gift so badly, they become good at faking it.  They just babble and disrupt the worship service.  There should be someone to translate and only one person should be speaking at a time.  

Acts 2 tells about the Apostles receiving the gift and being able to speak with people hearing them in their own language.   This seems more useful to me.  I haven't heard about that happening in any church today.  Some people do indeed have a gift for learning to speak foreign languages and speak well in public.  

I don't see any reference to tongues in Ephesians 4.  

 

Well said M,

I grew up in a Pentecostal church.  ( almost 60 years ago) Blessed to have been in a great Sunday school every week, Wednesday nite bible study, Sunday nite service, So very blessed to be a Pentecostal pastors kid,  .

I grew with tongues as a part of every day life in our home and church it was commonplace. I watched and learned i saw the lives folks led. I saw the "i speak in tongues so i am more spiritual than you" I saw wonderful (the term used at that time was) "God fearin” Christians live the Christian life. I have seen folks turn the tongues off and on like a switch. I was shocked to learn “ prayer language”  is not a scriptural term. Nor do I find “prayer language’ to be implied in scritpure. As for being new at it .... Isn't it a gift, there for not something learned?

As time went on I watched Daddy (the most Christ like man i ever knew) unconsciously ease back from the display of tongues as he became deeper in the Word. The more Christ like he grew, the less tongues.  As tongues was for the young church maybe tongues is needed for some young Christians.  I think of this then I know also there is not a  scriptural bases for “heavenly language”  Mind you I know

 1 Cor 13:1
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.


I just don’t believe it applies as many of us wish it did.  After saying much in the negative this is the scripture I will end with..


1 Cor 14:39

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
KJV  

Reba,
Thank you for your post. Is your church the UPCI? There is more than one Pentecostal type as you know. Their doctrine varies on certain issues.

I'm aware of some, that do fake tongues. They want so desparately to fit in. How sad. Also the spiritual pride exists.

God bless you,
bluelake

[Reba]

Assemblies of God

[seekeraftertruth]

It is my impression that "speaking in tongues" as explained in Acts meant that the speakers could be understood in the languages of those listening to them.  In other words, the speakers were given the gift of speaking (or being understood) in these other languages.

This would seem to make "speaking in tongues" the ability or gift of having someone (say an English speaking American) speak in a foreign language (say, French) that would be understood by the French members of the audience; or perhaps the English speaker would be understood in French by the person in the audience, even though the speaker was speaking in English.

Either way, "speaking in tongues" apparently does not mean babbling some gibberish that bears no resemblance to any actual language ever spoken.....as we see in some of today's churches, or when watching some of today's the televangelists. From the Biblical point of view, it would seem to have been simply the gift of making oneself understood in a foreign language.

   Acts:2:3-11.....KJV

   3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

   4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

   5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

   6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

   7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

   8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

   9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

   10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

   11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

[MalkyEL]

blue lake wrote:
nana,
The link that you gave does not give a statement of their faith. Do you know who they are?
The tongues spoken today are glossolia.
I have never heard of anyone speaking a real language. The term 'prayer language' isn't found in scripture. At least I don't think they use that term. Do you know?

nana:
If you scroll down on the home page, after the list of articles and see that she has given her statement of faith by subject and Biblical text for support.  Also, at the end of every article, as well as at the bottom of her home page is a link to click on for the salvation message, which is also her statement of faith.  I have also read her responses on some forums where she explains that her statements of faith can be found within the articles as she defends her position with Scripture, not supposition.

You are also correct, that today's "tongues" are glossolia, not the tongues that were given at Pentecost.  This is where the error lies.  Tongues was given for proclamation of the Gospel, not a personal prayer language.  This concept is not found within the NT.

When Paul stated that he spoke in tongues more than any others, was because he was appointed by God to bring the gospel to the gentiles or the nations.  That being the case, he would not know the language and by the gift of the Holy Spirit was given the ability to speak a language he did not know.

This would fall in line with the edification references particularly in 1 Cor 14.  Speaking the mystery would be known to God, not to the person speaking, as they did not know the language.

"Praying in the Spirit" is not evidenced within the scriptures quoted in this thread to "prove" it.  That is inserted into the meaning of the text.  Again, when Paul said he prayed with his mind and with the Spirit - it was praying how we choose, and then allowing the Spirit to pray through us as He wills - not in an unknown tongue, but in our known language, as guided in our thoughts by the Holy Spirit.  He might also be referring to Romans 8:26 where he states that the Spirit groans in words that cannot be uttered - in an intercessive capacity.

In reference to someone hearing tongues today in their native language and it being the gospel message, is indeed a true gift of the Spirit.  However; I have also heard that some, while speaking in tongues were blaspheming God in a foreign language and it was interpreted as that, by someone who knew the language they were speaking.

The problem with tongues today, is that they were taught.  Not received as a gift.  This happened from the time they were brought to this country.  This is why I believe the seekgod articles are critical to understanding this phenomenon which has snowballed out of control.  She does  extensive documented research that covers all angles of this "spirit".

tongues link:  http://www.seekgod.ca/topicwaves.htm#tongues

seekgod home page: http://www.seekgod.ca/index.htm

I wondered if someone could give me scripture reference that there is a "baptism in the Holy Spirit" for believers.  The references in each Gospel did not state baptism "in" the Holy Spirit, but rather "with" the Holy Spirit.

thanx and shalom, nana

[cris]

Some believe speaking in tongues is not for today.  Some believe that it is.  If tongues isn't for today, what do the following verses mean?


Romans 8 verses 26 and 27

And in the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for (us) with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the (will) of God.

Anyone?  Comments?  Thoughts?