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His_child
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« on: August 17, 2004, 03:13:13 PM »

I hear so often Christians claiming we are not to judge others.
I also hear that the Bible says we will judge the world.
I know the Bible does not contradict itself so how can both be right?

Many years ago I made out a long post on why I thought a certain cult was wrong to follow.
I had plenty of Bible verses to back up my post.

Someone responded with Matthew 7:1 and then told me not to be judgemental.
Was the person who accused me of being judgemental suffering from a case of judgementalism?
Did I get judged? or was that person just using discernment?

Have you ever noticed that people who quote Matthew 7 are no longer judgemental? They now refer to their judging as being discerning.

Is there a right way to judge?
Examples please?
Verses please?

Is there a wrong way to judge?
Examples please?
Verses please?

Are we to never judge at all?
Verses please?
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To Who I want my God to be.
He's Who I want my God to be.
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Kristi Ann
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2004, 04:03:46 PM »

Hello Sweetie,

I have been quoting Matthew 7:1-5 a lot.  You can blame it on me sister.   Undecided

I am truly sorry I have been doing this. I believe that Judging someone is up to God not I.  In the Bible a woman was to be stoned to death and Jesus said to them he who is without sin cast the first stone.  None of the men threw any stones at the woman.  Jesus forgave the woman and the men, just like He still does with all of us!!

Love Sis,  \o/

KristiAnn
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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2004, 04:23:38 PM »

Krino: judge:
1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
also, to pronounce an opinion as to right or wrong; to determine, resolve, decree; to pronounce judgment (sentence).


Is there a right way to judge?
Examples please?
Verses please?

Jhn 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment
A judgment based only upon consideration of the Word of God concerning a particular activity.

Is there a wrong way to judge?
Examples please?
Verses please?

As above, according to appearance....what something appears to be in relation to what we think it should be, as opposed to what the Word says. We should also NOT make a judgment as to someones final disposition, as in condemning them. That is Gods sole authority and bailiwick.
Mat 7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
In this passage, the first judge is present, active....meaning that at the current time, the one involved is actually doing the action (judging), whereas the "shall be judged" is future, passive. In the future, the judgment shall be levied against the one currently doing the judging by someone else....guess who!

Are we to never judge at all?
Verses please?

Hbr 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil

Here, "discern" is diakrisis, from the same root as krino, and means:
a distinguishing, discerning, judging.

Judgment of an activity as good or evil, right or wrong, is a necessary part of being Christian, and involves the application of Gods declared judgment (right or wrong) concerning a given activity. When we make such a judgment, we can then choose to be involved with it, or to turn away from it. Job was spoken of as a
"man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil"
Here the word eschewed simply means that he recognized that which was evil, and stayed away from it.

Paul spoke quite extensively to Timothy about the necessity of "judging", or discerning, and what to stay away from, and what to concentrate on. Such things certainly couldn't be done without a measure of "judgment" going on.

Example: God condemns homosexuality, along with robbery, murder, greed, slothfullness, licentiousness, and many other things.  We, in turn, and based solely upon what He says, can judge such activity as being outside the ken of His will and preference. Therefore, someone involved in that activity is not on His list of favorites. But, we do not condemn the person doing the activity....we DO try to point out to them what God says about it. From that point on, if they continue, then we do what Paul says...."after the second and third admonition, from such turn away".


And, as Jesus said to the woman KristiAnn mentions, after forgiving her, He said "go and sin no more".
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BroHank
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JitC
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« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2004, 07:19:27 PM »

I hear so often Christians claiming we are not to judge others.
I also hear that the Bible says we will judge the world.
I know the Bible does not contradict itself so how can both be right?

I'm pretty sure the following answer is correct: We are not to judge others right now. But after the tribulation, in New Jerusalem, some of us may be judges of the twelve tribes.
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Allinall
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2004, 09:15:03 AM »

I replied this in another thread earlier concerning this very thing.  Hope this helps:  Smiley


AMEN!! DreamWeaver!!!!  Grin


Remember all we are Not to Judge anyone at all!!!!!


Matthew 7:1-5

1 JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye

Holy Bible -- King James Version



God Said it I believe it DONE!!!!!!


Blessings,   \o/

Hmmmm...then Paul disobeyed Jesus and commanded us to do likewise...

Quote
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

Paul here pronounces and commands the execution of his judgment.  Get rid of the evil person!  Kick him out!  And why?  To restore him.  Ya know what?  It worked!  They obeyed Paul, and the sinful brother repented and came back...only they wouldn't let him back in!  So Paul writes them in 2 Corinthians to let the fellow back in.  The first recorded instance of church discipline, predicated by believers judging one another and acting upon it accordingly.

But this goes in direct disobedience to what Jesus said!  Right?  Actually, wrong.  Jesus point was that we need not go around pronouncing judgments on our brothers sinful viewing habits when we have 6 affairs currently happening.  Or pronouncing judgment on our sisters gossiping when we have slandered good men out of jobs and good report.   We are to first take the telephone pole out of our eyes...not so that we can't help or judge our brother ever.  NO!!  Not what He says.  He says...

Quote
Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

If my brother's speck is a sin, and I'm not to judge it as one, then how am I to help him it get rid of it as Jesus says here?  You miss the point.  Judgment is expected, so long as it is right.  How does one make his judgment right?  Simple.  He let's God show him what's right via His Word.  "Thou shalt not commit adultery".  If my brother is committing adultery, he's gotta telephone pole in his eye, and I need to judge that, according to God's view of that sin, and restore that brother by helping him in the spirit of meekness because I'm no better than he is.

 Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2004, 11:01:51 AM »

Posted by Allinall:

*snip*

Say it again, Bro......say it again!!  Cheesy
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BroHank
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His_child
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2004, 07:59:00 PM »

Hello Sweetie,

I have been quoting Matthew 7:1-5 a lot.  You can blame it on me sister.   Undecided

I am truly sorry I have been doing this. I believe that Judging someone is up to God not I.  In the Bible a woman was to be stoned to death and Jesus said to them he who is without sin cast the first stone.  None of the men threw any stones at the woman.  Jesus forgave the woman and the men, just like He still does with all of us!!

Love Sis,  \o/

KristiAnn

KristiAnn-

You're not the only one who quotes Matthew 7.
I would like your input in this thread.
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I'm not following a God that's imagined.
Can't invent His deity.
That's why Jesus is the final answer
To Who I want my God to be.
He's Who I want my God to be.
-  Who? by Peter Furler and Steve Taylor (Newsboys)
bluelake
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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2004, 09:52:01 PM »

I hear so often Christians claiming we are not to judge others.
I also hear that the Bible says we will judge the world.
I know the Bible does not contradict itself so how can both be right?

Many years ago I made out a long post on why I thought a certain cult was wrong to follow.
I had plenty of Bible verses to back up my post.

Someone responded with Matthew 7:1 and then told me not to be judgemental.
Was the person who accused me of being judgemental suffering from a case of judgementalism?
Did I get judged? or was that person just using discernment?

Have you ever noticed that people who quote Matthew 7 are no longer judgemental? They now refer to their judging as being discerning.

Is there a right way to judge?
Examples please?
Verses please?

Is there a wrong way to judge?
Examples please?
Verses please?

Are we to never judge at all?
Verses please?


Debating doctrine is one thing, judging another person's salvation is what Mt. 7 is referring to.
Those who dig a pit will themselves fall into it. Ps.9:16

God bless,
bluelake


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JitC
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2004, 12:08:29 AM »

...judging another person's salvation is what Mt. 7 is referring to.
I'm curious, what makes you think that Mt. 7 refers ONLY to another's salvation, and not other things as well?
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Allinall
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« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2004, 10:56:47 AM »

I hear so often Christians claiming we are not to judge others.
I also hear that the Bible says we will judge the world.
I know the Bible does not contradict itself so how can both be right?

Many years ago I made out a long post on why I thought a certain cult was wrong to follow.
I had plenty of Bible verses to back up my post.

Someone responded with Matthew 7:1 and then told me not to be judgemental.
Was the person who accused me of being judgemental suffering from a case of judgementalism?
Did I get judged? or was that person just using discernment?

Have you ever noticed that people who quote Matthew 7 are no longer judgemental? They now refer to their judging as being discerning.

Is there a right way to judge?
Examples please?
Verses please?

Is there a wrong way to judge?
Examples please?
Verses please?

Are we to never judge at all?
Verses please?


Debating doctrine is one thing, judging another person's salvation is what Mt. 7 is referring to.
Those who dig a pit will themselves fall into it. Ps.9:16

God bless,
bluelake




Beg to differ.  Jesus isn't referring to salvation in any fashion there.  He's referring to people being to blinded by their own sin to effectively help their brothers and sisters out of their sin.  In other words, make sure you're right so you can help your brother get right.  Discernment and subsequent biblical judgment via the Holy Spirit and the Holy Scriptures to help one another conform to the image of the Holy Son.    Smiley
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"that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death"
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