Abortion: Right or Wrong?

[NateyCakes]

Broken, What kind of cruelity??

AMEN to that baby being born normal!
I think that is so awful ppl justify the means for abortion!
"Oh, well the Dr told me my baby might come out deformed & there might be a chance he will be slow.." Etc, Yes, such a good reason to MURDER! **NOT!!** I like what was said, the Lord does EVERYTHING, every single thing for purpose & if you are pregnant, there IS reason & you should NEVER take that life!!!!!!

[Willowbirch]

The same place woman's soul came from when God created her out of Adam's rib?

[Broken]

Broken if your opinions on abortion are between you and God why do we know about them?

Because you asked.

If one has emotions abortion discussions will bring them out. I do not attempt to stifle debate if i did i would not have returned posts.  I am not the victim the babies are.

It does no conceivable good to continually mention them in here. The only reason I can imagine for you to mention them is to form for yourself some moral high ground where you can judge others, thinking us too ... polite perhaps to mention anything contrary to your views. Indeed, I might have been too polite to do so, and might have let the topic go, had you not then attacked me

A different grandchild was still born at about 22-23 weeks so tiny to hold .. This little guy had a name ,Jamie, he would be 9 this April 17 so  sweet so tiny perfect ittybitty hands and feet my heart broke for  my baby girl working to deliever a baby we knew was to be still born. I also have 5 healthy loving wonderful grandkids!

Then my congratulations on your grandchildren and my commiseration for Jamie. My sister was stillborn - which is how I know about the "disposal" practises of hospitals. They took her away, and we do not know what they did with her. One day, I hope very much that those who love to campaign, those pro-lifers who enjoy standing with a banner and bullying others, might turn their attention to the less glamorous causes, those which don't get the publicity, yet those which would be of use. Like that one. Make it so stillborn babies could have a burial, and not just be thrown into the hospital incinerator.

How is it that  those who show the photos of the carnage are the ones with their minds in the gutter. They did not do the killing.

Because they like looking at them.

yup i saw it   if you had read my post you would have found this post of yours  read the very end....

So why say that I said otherwise? I pointed out that I happened to be undergoing a particularly bad time, and I informed you of that purely and simply because I wished to explain if I had been inadvertently rude to you. You see, we got taught about manners a lot, and I know that if I am particularly ill, those manners tend to go out the window.

Yet I stand by my comments. You may indeed attack me all you wish, if it gives you some obscure pleasure to do so. And I stand by my assertion that I am not responsible for your daughter's abortions. Again: there is something wrong with your sense of ethics if you think that I am. I was not there, I do not know you, I am not a doctor or a nurse and even if I had been: I was not there. Or are you one of those who would blame all Christians for the holocaust, and all Europeans and all white Americans for slavery?

[Broken]

Are you not judgeing what it is to say what is and is not horrific?  We all suffer. So should I have been killed as a baby to save me from the trauma of this life?

Did you ever have one good time? This girl did not. Not one moment of peace, one moment of happiness, one moment when she was free from pain. No one has ever heard her laugh. Her whole life has been a struggle to make things marginally less painful for her. Not to get rid of the pain, because they can't. Just to lessen it slightly.
You are very different, I am very different. Hers is an unusual case - and as I stated above, that is how disabled someone has to be before I think that abortion is justified.

Broken do you believe that it is our right to decide what child lives or dies?  Seeing that it seems that you support mercy killing do you believe that if an adult is suffering then another person has the right to end their suffering?

I believe an adult has the right to choose. Once you are past the age of responsibility, it is your choice and yours alone to decide if you should die.
Of course, it is already normal, and has been for many years, that the doctors will see to it that you will die sooner than you perhaps might otherwise have done. Again it goes back to the maxim: thou shalt not kill, but thou shalt not officiously keep alive. It is just not something they advertise. But if the amount of medication it would take to stop a person's pain is enough to kill them - they will do it, rather than have that person live on in pain. Only "if" and only if that person is dying anyway.

I believe that even though that person's life is different from ours what is abnormal for us is normal for them.  Can't we learn from the sick?  My friend had a 2 year old sister that died in June.  She suffered greatly. Do you believe that they should have euthenized her like a dog?

You have more compassion for an animal than for a human? I would call that a shame.
I am sure we can learn from those we torture - but that does not mean we should torture them. We learned from the victims of the Nazis - should we therefore embrace their cruelty? No way!
How could I have learned from Claire? Why should I have forced her to live, in order that I might gain? Let me see...what I have learned from her is to make sure that I do not make someone suffer as Claire suffered.

God made us in His own image and I believe that being as important as we are to God we should not reduce a baby killing down to a level to parellel that of a slautering of a pig.  I don't understand your justifications Broken and I never will.  It is God's call who lives or dies.

Then why did you ask the questions? If you do not want to hear the answers, you should not ask for them.

I simply cannot see how anyone can justify such incredible cruelty. How you can justify making someone live who will never even know that they are living. Who feels only pain. Whose entire life is a literal Hell to them. Whose pain is greater than you or I can ever know, and who does not understand what is happening to her. That to me is the worst cruelty I can imagine. I could not do it; and I do not understand the minds of those who could.

NateyCakes,

Broken, What kind of cruelity??

Immense pain. Every minute, of every day, for thirty years and, it seems, for many years yet. Pain that cannot be taken away but only lessened. Pain not understood, the pain that makes a baby make this sort of noise...its not crying, its a cry of despair, for a pain that they have never been free from and never will be free from. Death will be a blessing for Claire. She gets nothing out of life, absolutely nothing. She can learn nothing, give nothing, does not understand what she is given either. I'll give you the measure of how disabled this child is: she is always cold, and used to wrap her arms around radiators. The heat burned all the skin from her hands and arms - and she did not understand that in order to stop the pain she must move her arms away. Even an animal has more brain than that. The poor girl has no sense, no understanding - her life is pain and nothing more. To make her live, to force her to live when she would have died at birth is intolerable cruelty we would not visit on a dog much less a human.

"Oh, well the Dr told me my baby might come out deformed & there might be a chance he will be slow.." Etc, Yes, such a good reason to MURDER! **NOT!!** I like what was said, the Lord does EVERYTHING, every single thing for purpose & if you are pregnant, there IS reason & you should NEVER take that life!!!!!!

I have never justified the abortion of babies who have learning disabilities, who do not look right, who are physically disabled. My best friend has a learning disability, a good friend at college was in a wheelchair. I grew up among disabled people of all ranges because my mother worked with them. I would not say they should die, any of them. It is an issue of quality of life. Every one of them can bring something to the world and can receive from the world. Every one. Their lives are worth living.
Claire's life is not worth living. If you, like I, had grown up listening to the moans of someone unable to comphrehend why they hurt so much. If you had watched her chewing the skirting boards and banging her head off walls because she understood nothing but pain any more, because the pain drove her, and drove her mad. If you had seen the agony she went through, the harm it caused her and her entire family, who could not stop her pain. If you had seen that wreck of a life that cannot be salvaged, that brings nothing to anything, and whose family hope only that she will find things easier after death - because she will not find it here, if you had seen that, perhaps you would say differently.

She was never meant to live. They did not expect her to live. But here she is at 30, for she has the misfortune to have good heart and lungs, and is likely to live for years yet. In agony. She is the reason I support abortion in some circumstances, because I saw her and I would not put someone through that. At the time of Jesus, she would have died. A few years before her birth, she would have died. Only extra-strenuous efforts saved her life. Doctors often don't make such efforts for babies they know will die young, or have a terrible life, you do not know the sorts of babies who are stillborn, or who die shortly after birth. Babies never destined for life. Claire should have been among them. She was not, and the result is a life more terrible than anything I could even imagine.

Have you the hardness of heart to put another through that?

[tony]

Greetings from snowy Ohio!

Adhering to the commandment, “Thou shalt not kill” I have been pro-life for as long as I can remember.  Thank you for sharing the quotes and web site.  They have certainly strengthened my, already steadfast, pro-life stance.

Your Brother in Christ,

Tony

[HopeAndFaith]

Let me say first off that this thread should be marked with a "caution, graphic picture" warning. as i started from the 1st page, i bypassed a link to an abortion site, by my choice. i had no idea that a photo was going to be on the 1st page below. Umm... how do say this nicely? I had a miscarriage 3 weeks ago yesterday at 10 weeks. i avoided the link because i didn't want to see the very thing i feared seeing as i miscarried. Sorry, i was a little upset about that photo, i didn't know there would be photos. Phewww! ok, that being said...

I used to be pro-choice, even as a Christian. My view point was this: If a woman is raped or pregnant due to incest, i thought that she should be able to decide for herself. I was sexually abused by my own father, so being pregnant from incest or rape was just about the most horrible thing i could imagine. I knew that killing and murder were serious sins, but i just couldn't stand the thought of making a woman under those circumstances carry a baby.

I never thought that a child should be aborted because of deformities. My youngest bro (who is really my cousin on my mom's side, but was adopted by our family) was born premature, was probably already handicapped, but then was shaken by his father who was a drug addict, my uncle. we dont know how handicapped he may or may not have been before the shaking, but i cant imagine my life without him. He is so funny, a joy. He is now 22, but has the mental capacity of a 4 year old.

When i became pregnant with my daughter in 2000, i changed my mind about abortion. I don't know how any person could support abortion after feeling a baby kick, move with purpose in the womb. even at the early stages. If an embryo is not considered to be alive, how could cells divide? that would be a scientific miracle. a thing has to be alive to divide cells. we were told we only had a 30% chance of ever conceiving because of 3 female problems i have. after 11 years of marriage, we got the best blessing ever.  after feeling the miracle with in my belly, i could never condone abortion, no matter what the circumstances.

I think i may have known there was something wrong with this baby i just miscarried. one night as we lay in bed, i asked my hub if we would be ok if the baby was abnormal. He said yes, we would love the baby more than ever. I knew i was ok with it, i just wanted to know how he felt.

Even though our baby- named Jimmy Poly by my 3 yr old daughter - is in heaven, and we never held him in our arms, i know God loved him before he was ever in my womb, as the scripture says. I know that he has a purpose in God's kingdom. I wish he was still with us, in my belly, but i know that one day we will see him in heaven.

I saw a cartoon once, in the newspaper: a man yelled to heaven "God, there are so may terrible things here on earth. Why haven't you sent someone to cure cancer, or AIDS, or leukemia?"

God answered back from heaven, " I have, but My people keep aborting them."

[twin_trip_mommy]

I am coming late to this topic but had to share that I think Abortion is murder. I did not read this entire thread (way to long) but I did read the first page and the last.

I get so frustrated with people that call it Freedom of Choice and say that the (I hate this word) “fetus” is not a human life until it is born. IMO that is sick.

Praise God He did not make my husband and I make a choice during our first pregnancy. I was told that I had a “sac” that was developing to slow and that I would have to make a choice to have it “removed” if it did not catch up. Thank the LORD that He in his infinite wisdom and ability took care of this Himself. At my next ultrasound the Doctors saw that the sac was empty. No need for “medical intervention”
A Doctor also told me once that one of my babies appeared to have Downs’s syndrome and another had Spinabiffida  (sp?). We refused any more testing (Dr admitted there was nothing that could be done with the results other then making the choice to abort or continue). ALL our children are living and none have Downs or spinabiffida.

I did look at the link but only after I saw the linked picture. I totally agree with the statement  “But if it is just "fetal tissue", then it should not bother you at all.” We as believers should know that it is NOT just “fetal tissue” and it should bother us to the core.

I am so sorry for your loss HopeAndFaith. I cannot imagine the pain you are going through. May the LORD give you comfort

[DovesWings]

I , too, am sorry for your loss hopeandfaith....I can't imagine that kind of loss.

My cousin now is going through a difficult pregnancy and she is doing whatever it takes to make sure these babies(twins) have the best chance of survival.

I had another cousin who's wife was raped and she too kept that child.

God plans lives for a purpose.  How do we KNOW what anyone is feeling unless we are living in their shoes?  By going according to the doctors saying that they are totally suffering, etc?  Doctor's aren't always right...they don't live in those ppl's bodies.  I'm sorry to hear that that poor girl has had to live like that, but I am sure that many ppl have benefited from knowing her and that God has blessed her Himself...besides, our greatest reward is in Heaven and eternal life w/ the Father.  

[ebia]

If an embryo is not considered to be alive, how could cells divide?

AFAIK no-one with more two brain cells to rub together has said an embryo isn't alive.   Being alive isn't sufficient to merit full rights as a human being, otherwise trees and mosquitos would both count as such.

[nChrist]

AFAIK no-one with more two brain cells to rub together has said an embryo isn't alive.  Being alive isn't sufficient to merit full rights as a human being, otherwise trees and mosquitos would both count as such.

Ebia,

Your rights to life as a human being were given by God, not man. Man needs to butt out of God's business.

[Shylynne]

I saw a cartoon once, in the newspaper: a man yelled to heaven "God, there are so may terrible things here on earth. Why haven't you sent someone to cure cancer, or AIDS, or leukemia?"

God answered back from heaven, " I have, but My people keep aborting them."

I like that!  

The father of lies  takes 'child' and turns it into 'choice'...the same  twisted play on God`s words he used in the garden..."ye shall not surely die"  to  "it`s really not a baby "...further  many knowingly or unknowingly adapt to the lie ye shall be as God when they take it upon themselves to decide if a unborn child will live or die.

[Corpus]

"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you live as you wish"

Mother Theresa

[Shylynne]

It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you live as you wish"

AMEN!

[ebia]

AFAIK no-one with more two brain cells to rub together has said an embryo isn't alive.  Being alive isn't sufficient to merit full rights as a human being, otherwise trees and mosquitos would both count as such.

Ebia,

Your rights to life as a human being were given by God, not man. Man needs to butt out of God's business.

Where does the bible say that God intends those rights to apply, in full, to the unborn?   It doesn't - it's an assumption.  It's an assumption I happen to agree with but you're only kidding yourselves by pretending it's clear cut.

[twin_trip_mommy]

Where does the bible say that God intends those rights to apply, in full, to the unborn?   It doesn't - it's an assumption.  It's an assumption I happen to agree with but you're only kidding yourselves by pretending it's clear cut.

As it is written in
Psalm 139: 13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,
16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

I don’t know if I would call it assumption or interpretation. I guess some would. My understanding of these verses is He knew me before I was born. He created me, He knit me together. All my days were planned. I don’t think anyone should have the right to end that life that God created. So therefore All life from conception to natural death belong to Him the creator of life and no one has a right to take that life.