Abortion: Right or Wrong?

[ebia]

Gone over the edge huh?

  Baby killers and those who support them in any way are murders murders of the helpless. You and those like you do not deserve the time of day. Your words support abortion you are a murder.

Reduced to "proof by personal attack" eh?  

[Reba]

Reduced?, i dont think so, i started there. You are a murderer if you dont think it is murder, how could my words be an attack? i will not respond to you again. Murders are not folks i care to talk with.

[nChrist]

Gone over the edge huh?

  Baby killers and those who support them in any way are murders murders of the helpless. You and those like you do not deserve the time of day. Your words support abortion you are a murder.

Oklahoma Howdy to Reba,

Sister, you must remember that many in this world are morally bankrupt. Almighty God will deal with those who murder the innocent at HIS appointed time, and in HIS chosen manner.

Sister, in the meantime:

KEEP LOOKING UP!!

Love In Christ,
Tom

[ebia]

Reduced?, i dont think so, i started there.

You start an argument with personal attacks?  

You are a murderer if you dont think it is murder, how could my words be an attack? i will not respond to you again. Murders are not folks i care to talk with.

I've never said it I don't think it's murder.   I do think abortion is wrong, and I've said so several times.

What I'm pointing out is that neither the bible nor logic PROVES that abortion is murder.

When I point out fallacies in people's "proofs", instead of a reasoned debate I'm subject to personal attacks.

[JudgeNot]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37785

[Reba]

The Babe is to cool Judge.

 Brains and pretty too.

 What part of "thou shalt not kill" dont we get.

[JudgeNot]

You and I "get it".  We aren't alone.  

Stand fast.

[2nd Timothy]

An unborn child is human. it is not a plant nor a puppy it is a live human.

Say's who?  That's your opinion; it's also my opinion, but it isn't self evident that a 4 cell embryo is fully human.

At what stage of life is it a right of one human to kill another? Scripture says simply dont kill.

Of course there is a cut off - there always is - or do you treat (human) eggs and sperm the way you treat an adult human?

You've got to be joking!  So a four cell embryo conceived inside the womb of a woman could turn out to be a plant or a puppy?  Expectant mothers beware!  

What I'm pointing out is that neither the bible nor logic PROVES that abortion is murder.

Maybe you should start by defining abortion for us.  

Allow me....
Webster:
Abortion
1 : the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus:

Termination of the fetus resulting in death.
Fetus, a developing human (unless you still hold to the idea that human cells could turn out to be a plant or a puppy).

Logically its plain to see that abortion is the willing termination of a human fetus resulting in death.   I'm sure Mr Spock would agree with my logic here.

As for scripture, try this one on for size.

Exo 21:22  If men strive and strike a pregnant woman, so that her child comes out, and there is no injury, he shall surely be punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him. And he shall pay as the judges say
Exo 21:23  And if any injury occurs, then you shall give life for life,
MKJV

Here, if the unborn child is miscarried, and "dies" due to the mother being struck, the sentence required is death.

It is clear to me that this addresses an unborn child as equal to that of a living man.  *you shall give Life for Life*  should the miscarried child die!   So how does this differ from intentionally terminating an unborn child?  The main difference I see is that some women now days are seeking to have their unborn children terminated intentionally.

Its wrong, plain and simple.  Scripture wont support, and neither does logic.

Grace and Peace!

[BUTCHA]

ebia
im sorry if you felt i attacked you, but im not just your thought process.
you said..................
I've never said it I don't think it's murder.  I do think abortion is wrong, and I've said so several times.

What I'm pointing out is that neither the bible nor logic PROVES that abortion is murder.
are you contradicting yourself?
you say its life right
it is not a plant
it is human at a young age
and when you end this life
you have killed it
 to kill a human life is murder
to kill a plant is ashame
 to kill a chicken is dinner

[Reba]

Butch  your funny! KFC

[BUTCHA]

Butch  your funny! KFC

ya and the mashed potato's and gravy is good to,

[JudgeNot]

"thou shalt not kill"

Actually, the literal translation is “Murder” as opposed to “Kill”.  I know, I know – you’ve heard it before – but I’m repeating it just for those who haven’t.  Why?  Otherwise, God would be guilty of breaking one of His own commandments.    

The guilty deserve death.  The innocent do not.  Babies in the womb are as innocent as they come.  

[Shammu]

I know I am more then likely to say this but.
Abortion is murdering a innocent human being created in Gods image. It has been proven that the unborn are alive, and moving in the womb of the woman.

[ebia]

An unborn child is human. it is not a plant nor a puppy it is a live human.

Say's who?  That's your opinion; it's also my opinion, but it isn't self evident that a 4 cell embryo is fully human.

At what stage of life is it a right of one human to kill another? Scripture says simply dont kill.

Of course there is a cut off - there always is - or do you treat (human) eggs and sperm the way you treat an adult human?

You've got to be joking!  So a four cell embryo conceived inside the womb of a woman could turn out to be a plant or a puppy?  Expectant mothers beware!  

That's not remotely what I said.  Stop building straw men.  I know it's easier than engaging in what I actually said, but it does nothing but make you look an idiot.

What I'm pointing out is that neither the bible nor logic PROVES that abortion is murder.

Maybe you should start by defining abortion for us.  

Allow me....
Webster:
Abortion
1 : the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus:

Termination of the fetus resulting in death.
Fetus, a developing human (unless you still hold to the idea that human cells could turn out to be a plant or a puppy).

Logically its plain to see that abortion is the willing termination of a human fetus resulting in death.   I'm sure Mr Spock would agree with my logic here.

Webster's is not a good dictionary.  Try the (pocket) oxford:
abortion (n) 1.  natural or (esp.) medically induced expulsion of a foetus from the womb before it is able to survive independently.

Regardless, no-one is saying that the foetus doens't die.  The claim is that a foetus is not fully human.  You're spending your time addressing a line of argument that no-one is making.

As for scripture, try this one on for size.

Exo 21:22  If men strive and strike a pregnant woman, so that her child comes out, and there is no injury, he shall surely be punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him. And he shall pay as the judges say
Exo 21:23  And if any injury occurs, then you shall give life for life,
MKJV

Here, if the unborn child is miscarried, and "dies" due to the mother being struck, the sentence required is death.

It is clear to me that this addresses an unborn child as equal to that of a living man.

 
That's one reasonable inference to draw from that passage, but it is not the only one.  Consequently the passage is evidence for your position, but not proof.

*you shall give Life for Life*  should the miscarried child die!  

That is a connection that you've made, that is not necessarly intended by God.  

So how does this differ from intentionally terminating an unborn child?  The main difference I see is that some women now days are seeking to have their unborn children terminated intentionally.

The above passage refers to violence against the mother that results in the loss of the child.   Why does scripture not speak out directly against abortion (which has been going on since biblical times)?

[ebia]

ebia
im sorry if you felt i attacked you, but im not just your thought process.
you said..................
I've never said it I don't think it's murder.  I do think abortion is wrong, and I've said so several times.

What I'm pointing out is that neither the bible nor logic PROVES that abortion is murder.
are you contradicting yourself?

No.

you say its life right
it is not a plant
it is human at a young age

Is it?  Sure, it will develop into a human under the right conditions, but an egg and sperm will develop into a human under the right conditions, but I don't see you arguing for giving them full human rights.