Thoughts on Benny Hinn???

[Layman Bairn]

peh wrote:

And so I say the same to you, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ANONE WHO SAYS THEY ARE CHRISTIAN?

(accents mine)


Jesus wrote and commended the Ephesians saying:

 and- thou- hast- tried- them- which- say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:  Rev 2:2b (KJV)

Bairn

[Soldier4Christ]

AMEN PASTOR ROGER!

AND, many will join you, including me. Further, I'm not concerned about criticism while doing the Lord's work. The Bible is very specific about this, especially dealing with false prophets/teachers. SO, I'll do as the Bible commands.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 5:20  Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Amen, Beps. The criticism isn't what bothers me. They can say what they will about me. It is Gods word that counts not me.

[felix102]

Everyone one of you needs to read the following at least three times...and then compare this to your response.

quote from peh

Instead of finding fault in posts with public figures, perhaps we'd be better off, if we believe someone is misusing the Word, or is prophesying falsely, to follow Scriptural procedures rather than to "speak evil of" them on posts.

Procedures such as Matt 18:15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. "

Twice Scriptures warn us:

2 Peter 2:9-10 "the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,.."

And Jude 1:8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.

While some say these "dignitaries" mentioned are not of flesh and blood but spiritual, it seems it would be wise not to be found among those who "speak evil of dignitaries", even if it is even remotely possible it may mean Benny Hinn.

Brothers and sisters...now look at what you said AGAINST this. As this was peh's original intent. This was exactly what I was being led by when I first posted here some time ago.

Quote from: blackeyedpeas on Today at 06:17:55pm
AMEN PASTOR ROGER!

AND, many will join you, including me. Further, I'm not concerned about criticism while doing the Lord's work. The Bible is very specific about this, especially dealing with false prophets/teachers. SO, I'll do as the Bible commands.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 5:20  Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
 

Brother, please show me what criticism you speak of. Challenge what I said. Examine what was said. Please read and reread my analogy. Do you believe this is the truth?

Are you using Isaiah 5:20 against me? I know that the word of God is living and powerful. If you believe this is the case, WOE to me. Woe to me if I put darkness for light and light for darkness. Woe to me if I call evil good and good evil.


I cannot know whether Benny Hinn is a true or false prophet based on what is said here. I will be safe and clear from judgement by not abiding in ad hominems and ill speaking. If Benny Hinn is a false prophet; I will not be under judgement. If Benny Hinn is a true prophet; I will not be under judgement.

Whether He is true or false his teachings cannot affect me because I do not know them! But once I know them and I find that these teachings fail and are not of God then I will know the truth. For we being sons of God, and are lead by the Spirit of God. We will clearly know it.

I speak the truth... From what is said here and on the first few sites I got from a search engine...I do not know enough to say if Hinn is true or false. I sense predispositions against Hinn. These exhortations I do not find purity in. In the day I directly say Hinn is a false prophet or true prophet...will be the day I know.

I do not feel it inside me. So I will myself stay clear of judgement before speaking evil of this man. Peh has given powerful advice. What is evil in this? Is this true? So what is it that you are speaking out against?

Consider what is written...what do you disagree with?

[nChrist]

Everyone one of you needs to read the following at least three times...and then compare this to your response.

quote from peh

Instead of finding fault in posts with public figures, perhaps we'd be better off, if we believe someone is misusing the Word, or is prophesying falsely, to follow Scriptural procedures rather than to "speak evil of" them on posts.

Procedures such as Matt 18:15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. "

Twice Scriptures warn us:

2 Peter 2:9-10 "the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,.."

And Jude 1:8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.

While some say these "dignitaries" mentioned are not of flesh and blood but spiritual, it seems it would be wise not to be found among those who "speak evil of dignitaries", even if it is even remotely possible it may mean Benny Hinn.

Brothers and sisters...now look at what you said AGAINST this. As this was peh's original intent. This was exactly what I was being led by when I first posted here some time ago.

Quote from: blackeyedpeas on Today at 06:17:55pm
AMEN PASTOR ROGER!

AND, many will join you, including me. Further, I'm not concerned about criticism while doing the Lord's work. The Bible is very specific about this, especially dealing with false prophets/teachers. SO, I'll do as the Bible commands.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 5:20  Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
 

Brother, please show me what criticism you speak of. Challenge what I said. Examine what was said. Please read and reread my analogy. Do you believe this is the truth?

Are you using Isaiah 5:20 against me? I know that the word of God is living and powerful. If you believe this is the case, WOE to me. Woe to me if I put darkness for light and light for darkness. Woe to me if I call evil good and good evil.


I cannot know whether Benny Hinn is a true or false prophet based on what is said here. I will be safe and clear from judgement by not abiding in ad hominems and ill speaking. If Benny Hinn is a false prophet; I will not be under judgement. If Benny Hinn is a true prophet; I will not be under judgement.

Whether He is true or false his teachings cannot affect me because I do not know them! But once I know them and I find that these teachings fail and are not of God then I will know the truth. For we being sons of God, and are lead by the Spirit of God. We will clearly know it.

I speak the truth... From what is said here and on the first few sites I got from a search engine...I do not know enough to say if Hinn is true or false. I sense predispositions against Hinn. These exhortations I do not find purity in. In the day I directly say Hinn is a false prophet or true prophet...will be the day I know.

I do not feel it inside me. So I will myself stay clear of judgement before speaking evil of this man. Peh has given powerful advice. What is evil in this? Is this true? So what is it that you are speaking out against?

Consider what is written...what do you disagree with?

Felix,

First, the Bible Verse is a random quote program I use for this forum.

Second, I don't think that you and peh understand what we are talking about. We are not talking about Benny Hinn committing an offense against us, rather of Benny Hinn committing an offense against God. He would have faced horrible consequences in the Old Testament. He would simply be shunned and accursed in the New Testament. There is more than enough here and in other threads about the same person to check for yourself and do your own study about these issues. Don't confuse a private offense with an offense against God and the Gospel. It is time for you to do your own study.

Regarding those who rebuke and shun Benny Hinn, that won't stop by any mature Christian. You are certainly free to disagree and do what you wish. You and peh should study the issues and the Bible before condemning a Biblical practice by other brothers and sisters in Christ.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:31  What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? (Another Random Bible quote)

[Bronzesnake]

 Benny Hinn is a false prophet!

This is truth, like it or not. if you don't know, then don't argue for or against until you do know. It's really that simple.

 I know, as do many others, that's why we can make the statement - Benny Hinn is a false prophet!

[felix102]

Brother Tom. I am fully allowing myself to be bound by scripture. If I call evil good and good evil, woe to me! I have confessed that the Word of God is living and operative. It will be done.

Then you know my integrity. That I do not favor or show any partiality to Benny Hinn. I will not call Benny Hinn evil or good because I do not know, otherwise woe to me! Hence I am not claiming Benny Hinn is good, or even that Benny Hinn is evil.

You say we(I and peh) dont understand what you all are talking about.

We are not talking about Benny Hinn committing an offense against us, rather of Benny Hinn committing an offense against God.

Brother, that is obvious. On the contrary, I think it was you who misunderstood us.

I know what you think. What me and peh have said is not in error. You cannot find it. You know there is no error in this and this is true. What you believe, however, is that we are condemning the people here for speaking against Benny Hinn. Apparently, this is what everyone here is speaking against.


So let me tell you what is my true motive and my heart. What I wrote was not in response to anyone's post but peh's. I did not even read through any other post. The revelation of that analogy and what I wrote was what I had a long time before this time. If you don't believe me this is evident in the first few posts of mine in this thread. I can testify and stand with what peh posted... this is the same idea I have had...and we have never even shared this. We have seen and felt the same thing...yet we are strangers.

The post I wrote was testimony that surely...we are empowered and taught by the same Spirit. That was first and foremost.

Secondly, in my being, I do sense that what is being done here is speaking ill...and also easily believing ill of a person of whom we really do not know. The same sense that peh had. If someone calls a man a false prophet without any further detail that is not enough to know anything. If you claim you are doing the Lord's work then you will reveal to us what would make that man a false prophet.


I have done some research on Benny Hinn. But in me, I do not know enough. I can easily let my mind conform to what these people say about Hinn, but that is not what I sense from the inner man. I do not hear that from the spirit.

You will say, "Are you just plain dumb or are you willing to follow a false prophet." I tell you...the latter is not true. But for the first... ...I dont care how you judge me. It is God who is the absolute judge of all things...who knows the true intent of man's heart.


Bronzesnake,
If you don't know, then don't argue for or against until you do know.

I am not arguing for or against anything.

[nChrist]

Brother Tom. I am fully allowing myself to be bound by scripture. If I call evil good and good evil, woe to me! I have confessed that the Word of God is living and operative. It will be done.

Then you know my integrity. That I do not favor or show any partiality to Benny Hinn. I will not call Benny Hinn evil or good because I do not know, otherwise woe to me! Hence I am not claiming Benny Hinn is good, or even that Benny Hinn is evil.

You say we(I and peh) dont understand what you all are talking about.

We are not talking about Benny Hinn committing an offense against us, rather of Benny Hinn committing an offense against God.

Brother, that is obvious. On the contrary, I think it was you who misunderstood us.

I know what you think. What me and peh have said is not in error. You cannot find it. You know there is no error in this and this is true. What you believe, however, is that we are condemning the people here for speaking against Benny Hinn. Apparently, this is what everyone here is speaking against.


So let me tell you what is my true motive and my heart. What I wrote was not in response to anyone's post but peh's. I did not even read through any other post. The revelation of that analogy and what I wrote was what I had a long time before this time. If you don't believe me this is evident in the first few posts of mine in this thread. I can testify and stand with what peh posted... this is the same idea I have had...and we have never even shared this. We have seen and felt the same thing...yet we are strangers.

The post I wrote was testimony that surely...we are empowered and taught by the same Spirit. That was first and foremost.

Secondly, in my being, I do sense that what is being done here is speaking ill...and also easily believing ill of a person of whom we really do not know. The same sense that peh had. If someone calls a man a false prophet without any further detail that is not enough to know anything. If you claim you are doing the Lord's work then you will reveal to us what would make that man a false prophet.


I have done some research on Benny Hinn. But in me, I do not know enough. I can easily let my mind conform to what these people say about Hinn, but that is not what I sense from the inner man. I do not hear that from the spirit.

You will say, "Are you just plain dumb or are you willing to follow a false prophet." I tell you...the latter is not true. But for the first... ...I dont care how you judge me. It is God who is the absolute judge of all things...who knows the true intent of man's heart.


Bronzesnake,
If you don't know, then don't argue for or against until you do know.

I am not arguing for or against anything.

Brother Felix,

   OK  

Let's see what random Bible Verse comes up this time.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Galatians 2:20  I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

[Soldier4Christ]

Felix and Peh,

Since you are so willing to condemn people for what they have to say about Benny Hinns teachings and are not willing to take what they have to say in the matter then I suggest that you listen to Benny Hinn yourselves and hear how he teaches that we do not have God within us but that we are Gods. How he says that he is prophesying yet none, zero, zip, nada of them have come true when he said they would. How he said that Jesus Christ would be and has been here on earth recently in the flesh. How he supports the act of necromancy which is against the word of God. Then once you have heard for yourselves compare this to the teachings of Jesus Christ himself.

There are many of Benny Hinns audio clips available on the net. Search for them and listen to them for yourselves perhaps then you might believe and will no longer condemn good and faithful Christians for condemning his teachings.

[peh]

I feel I can begin this post by stating for the record that I am not a follower of Benny Hinn, nor of any other public figure in Christianity.  I've felt during the earlier posting that to state this would be construed as self-defensive, and I refuse to defend myself on those grounds.  But let it be known to any who have thought otherwise that I follow no man in doctrine.  

I have been a student of the Bible for many years and have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ that allows me freedom to discern truth from error.  And if I should be led into error, I'm convinced that the Holy Spirit, who guides the sons of God. will lead me directly back out.  That is not to say I believe my set of doctrines to be without error.  No one should be that bold so long as 1 Cor 13:9, 12 are in Scripture.

The point on this thread doesn't appear to really be about whether or not Benny Hinn or any other public Chrisitan figure is a false teacher.   Even if it were, the posts on this forum HAVE NO EFFECT on his/their teaching, and only reach those who read the posts.   What the negative posts seem to be about are personal attacks on a figure who has had a good deal of negative publicity written about them.  Those who seem agreeable to the negativity say that they must correct false teaching.

Therefore, I insist that to speak ill of them is NOT the same as correcting false teaching.  If correcting false teaching were the aim, no names or name calling would be necessary at all.   A simple, "this is not so, and here's why" would suffice.  

Not all the negative posts go so far as to post slanderous remarks, or speak ill of public figures, but some do and other posters are further tempted to do so by agreement from posters who would appear to have been Christians long enough to know that to provoke someone else to do wrong is worse than doing it yourself.

Pastor Roger, you posted and addressed this statement to me and felix102, "Since you are so willing to condemn people for what they have to say about Benny Hinns teachings and are not willing to take what they have to say in the matter...".

Neither of the your statements are true.   And here's why:   neither felix102 nor I have condemned anyone, in fact it is not in our power to do so, nor do I, and I believe felix102 is wise enough also that he does not, have any desire to condemn anyone.  

Neither are either of us, (I believe I can speak for felix102), unwilling to consider that someone may be a false teacher if our spirits indicated we should look into it.  

So, again, at the risk of just repeating what I've said before and what a few others have said in agreement, I say again, why go to the point of evil speaking when it is not necessary for the goal you proclaim yourself to have?  

If you wish to make sure those who read your posts get the truth, then post it.  If what someone says is false, post that and then post the truth.  Let us see what you teach.  Let us discern what you proclaim, to see if it is the truth or not.

[Bronzesnake]

I feel I can begin this post by stating for the record that I am not a follower of Benny Hinn, nor of any other public figure in Christianity.  I've felt during the earlier posting that to state this would be construed as self-defensive, and I refuse to defend myself on those grounds.  But let it be known to any who have thought otherwise that I follow no man in doctrine.  

I have been a student of the Bible for many years and have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ that allows me freedom to discern truth from error.  And if I should be led into error, I'm convinced that the Holy Spirit, who guides the sons of God. will lead me directly back out.  That is not to say I believe my set of doctrines to be without error.  No one should be that bold so long as 1 Cor 13:9, 12 are in Scripture.

The point on this thread doesn't appear to really be about whether or not Benny Hinn or any other public Chrisitan figure is a false teacher.   Even if it were, the posts on this forum HAVE NO EFFECT on his/their teaching, and only reach those who read the posts.   What the negative posts seem to be about are personal attacks on a figure who has had a good deal of negative publicity written about them.  Those who seem agreeable to the negativity say that they must correct false teaching.

Therefore, I insist that to speak ill of them is NOT the same as correcting false teaching.  If correcting false teaching were the aim, no names or name calling would be necessary at all.   A simple, "this is not so, and here's why" would suffice.  

Not all the negative posts go so far as to post slanderous remarks, or speak ill of public figures, but some do and other posters are further tempted to do so by agreement from posters who would appear to have been Christians long enough to know that to provoke someone else to do wrong is worse than doing it yourself.

Pastor Roger, you posted and addressed this statement to me and felix102, "Since you are so willing to condemn people for what they have to say about Benny Hinns teachings and are not willing to take what they have to say in the matter...".

Neither of the your statements are true.   And here's why:   neither felix102 nor I have condemned anyone, in fact it is not in our power to do so, nor do I, and I believe felix102 is wise enough also that he does not, have any desire to condemn anyone.  

Neither are either of us, (I believe I can speak for felix102), unwilling to consider that someone may be a false teacher if our spirits indicated we should look into it.  

So, again, at the risk of just repeating what I've said before and what a few others have said in agreement, I say again, why go to the point of evil speaking when it is not necessary for the goal you proclaim yourself to have?  

If you wish to make sure those who read your posts get the truth, then post it.  If what someone says is false, post that and then post the truth.  Let us see what you teach.  Let us discern what you proclaim, to see if it is the truth or not.

 Without trying to provoke, I must say - that kind of wish- washy logic is going to get people severely confused as to what the Truth is and is not. When a Christian "pastor" (especially a world renowned pastor) goes on world wide TV, and makes false statements - bends the scriptures – proclaims himself to be a prophet, and deceives his followers, he is a false prophet. To candy coat it only confuses people who are honestly seeking after the Truth. There is only one Truth.

 Pastor Roger has pointed out specific instances of Benny's heretical teachings, as have others. Now you either believe that Benny is correct and the Bible is wrong, or you believe the Bible is correct and Benny is wrong. But it goes much farther than merely being wrong in this case. Hinn is an intelligent man by all appearances; he knows full well that the things he says are not found in God's Word. Hinn fancies himself as a prophet above God's own infallible Word. To do anything less than condemn this kind of evil is to embrace it.

[Layman Bairn]

peh:

The underlying theme in this debate seems to be “contending for the Faith”, as Paul urged Timothy, vs. tolerance, a “holy” buzz-word in the scriptures of political correctness.

The Lord, as all bible students know, had some good things to say and some bad things to say about the churches in Asia written to in Rev. chapters 2 and 3. Most students also realize these letters address much more than just these seven local churches.

Rev 2:2
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: (KJV)

How did they “try” them? in court? No. They heard them and found (judged) them liars. Jesus commends them!

OK..I’m new in Ephesus, I’m looking for a good bible church. (oops I forgot they were one per city then) the brothers and sisters at the “Forum” fellowship receive me warmly, but I notice they are stern in their warnings about a cross-town “prophet”. I work hard for days to show them how un-christian their attitude is. I don’t go hear the guy but I know for sure:  

YOU JUST DON’T JUDGE SOMEONE WHO CALLS HIMSELF A CHRISTIAN

One day there is excitement as it is learned a brother has smuggled a letter from the beloved apostle John who has been exiled on the island of Patmos. The excitement increases as we find out that Jesus, through John, has directly addressed the fellowship here in Ephesus. In the body of the letter we find out how very pleased Jesus is with the Ephesians for trying and judging false apostles. “Perhaps”, I consider, “I have misunderstood some teachings about such matters”.

Rev 2:20
20. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest (tolerate) that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. (KJV)

Shall we assume that this chastisement applies only to prophetesses, fornication and food offered to idols? How about a “prophet” who says he has seen men turned into snakes before his eyes and teaches that the Godhead really consists of three trinities, who foretells the annihilation of all homosexuals from the earth on a long past date, who predicts that soon thousands of people will rise from the dead and watch TBN and others will rise from their caskets that have been placed in front of televisions on which Paul Crouch’s program is airing?

Jesus chastises the Thyatirans for their tolerance of this Jezebel. To tolerate such things angers Him.
You may have been duped into superimposing the p.c. doctrine of tolerance onto scriptures like James 4:11

James 4:11
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. (KJV)

Do you suppose James would have insisted the Ephesians or the Thyatirans apply this to their false “apostles” and “Jezebels”? They would have lost their commendation from Christ.

Matt 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (KJV)

Judging a false apostleship is not speaking evil of a brother, it is commended by Jesus Christ. We shouldn’t be vitriolic in our condemning these ministries, but we are certainly encouraged to be intolerant and forthright in our judgement.

Agape

Bairn

[Audax]

I have zero respect for Benny Hinn as a teacher.  I believe the evidence shows his distinctive teachings are primarily false ones.  I feel the same about many many evangelical leaders, both Pentecostal and otherwise, that get far less mention than Benny Hinn does.  Some get no mention.  

We often tend nowadays to judge others against our own theology rather than against the Bible.  Benny doesn't measure up to either regular evangelical theology or the Bible.  If you're wondering what regular evangelical theology is, contrast it with unleaded and supreme and you might get a better grasp on what I mean  Our trends and traditions allow us to easily label those outside our circle of thought as "heretics" and the majority in our group easily follow our opinions out of peer pressure and lack of much caring anyway.  Their place is in the group.  So much of it is based on peer pressure rather than real study of Scripture.  We tend to regroup when once we enter Christian forums like this one.  

I read an article the other day that proved that Charles Finney was a Pelagian, and therefore a heretic.  They didn't bother proving that Pelagius was a heretic.  The whole thing was based upon peer pressure.  Because everyone is sure that Pelagius is a heretic, therefore Finney is, even though not everyone's quite as sure about him.  That's ridiculous.  Where's the Biblical investigation of these men?  That's what we should all be after.  Only through the Bible can we prove anyone is a heretic.

Ever noticed how serious Reformed Theologians tend to stay Reformed their whole lives?  And serious Pentecostal Theologians tend to stay Pentecostal their whole lives?  They represent a cause they know a lot about, and yet neither side will change or ever really learn anything new.  I'm just speaking in general.  I used to go by most every label out there, at one point or another. Theological systems can have such a grasp on people though most of them aren't even Biblical.  The same goes for Benny Hinn's followers.

We need to be sensitive to the followers of any religion or denomination or teacher, or else we won't be at all helpful in helping them out of the ideology they are clinging too- often for their lives.  I've seen Benny be a great comfort and faith endorser for someone close to me.  My great grandmother.  I don't think she understood most of his specific doctrines, but he helped her believe and I was too young to help her myself very much.  Whether her faith was acceptable before God, is for Him to decide, but I'm glad of my hope that it was.  Though my family stated we disagreed with Benny, at the same time, I am glad she died believing in God through Benny rather than not at all.  As Paul stated, in Phil.  He was glad that Christ was preached from whatever motive, whether in pretense or truth.  At the same time Paul was very eager to uproot heresy, particularly the judiazers who compromised the very essence of the gospel.  He had strong words for them and had the right to speak them since he dealt first hand on their level and was a man who was lead by God's Spirit.  People like my grandma are not easy to uproot from their faith.  Not easy at all.  Like all the systems out there, Word of Faith is very binding and blinding.  These are real people caught up in error here.  

I'm not sympathetic to false teachers or false teachings.  I wish they were all gone!  But we live in a real world in which we must realize that's not going to happen.  We need to learn to be sensitive but dogmatic to people's faces, and sensitive but dogmatic behind their backs, on Christian forums.  Though I have zero respect for Hinn as a teacher, I have high respect for him as a human being created in God's image.  Let not our words condemn us because we have gone too far and started to attack the essential person rather than the message.  James 3.  These things should not be brethren.  I feel there could be some distinctions made here about what attacking the essential person is, and isn't, but I'll leave that for others to discuss.  My primary point is that love should be paramount.  Love that is strong with truth, but is also gentle and peacable.  The seed who's fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who bring peace.  If you have concern for people who are caught up in Word of Faith, then think hard about how to reach them.  

I believe Peh has a very good point.  It is not right to speak ill of Benny personally.  Both for his sake and for the sake of those sympathetic to his message.  If we are going to be persuasive and not look like biased elitists, then we must learn to be sensitive and caring.  We need to show love so that our own message carries with it the distinctive of having good fruit.  Let not just our doctrine but our behavior constrast with our opponents.  This is in large measure what makes our message meaningful.  If it hasn't had an effect in our lives, then maybe we are as heretical as Benny is?  

I understand the tendency to feel the pleasure in jumping on what seems to be an obvious badguy.  With all the disagreements among us, atleast we can agree about this one thing!  Right?  Apparently not.    

This is the real world and our purpose here is to be the glorification of Christ.  So I say bravo to those who have written kind, but dogmatic and well evidenced posts about Benny's dangerous errors.  And bravo to those who are seeking to reform the way we go about the business of doing that.  In a kind and persuasive, non elitist way.  

And if any are in the category I just left off a bravo for, then you're who I'm directing this message primarily to and I'll let you decide because I don't care to judge any of you.  Let the reality of the thread be the judge.  I understand.  I wrote an email a few days ago to a friend in which I ridiculed a branch of theology in a way that was not right.  I wrote him back and said I was sorry for doing it.  He agreed with me about the errors of the theology I was mocking, so it was just a case in which I was trying to extract pleasure out of my mockery because of my own hurt heart in the matter.  False theology does hurt us deep inside.

Yet I feel we can all discuss even the difficult things of the faith in a kind and feeling manner, because we are saints.  Well hopefully most of us.  People don't change easily.  We need to question what our purpose is here?  Are we like Paul who was eager to be poured out on the sheep like a drink offering?  Like John who was willing to decrease so Christ could increase?  Then let us try our utmost to win converts to truth and make disciples of all nations.  Love covers a multitude of sins and yet Love can break bones.    

I hope I was helpful.  I would like to see peace here aswell as unity.  What are we fighting for that is meaningful if not for all of us to be better followers of Christ in humility, love, and truth.  Perhaps this post could be put in almost any thread in any Christian forum on the web.  Well it's here.  God bless.

Benjamin

[felix102]

Thanks Audax! True and wise word.

Felix and Peh,

Since you are so willing to condemn people for what they have to say about Benny Hinns teachings and are not willing to take what they have to say in the matter then I suggest that you listen to Benny Hinn yourselves and hear how he teaches that we do not have God within us but that we are Gods. How he says that he is prophesying yet none, zero, zip, nada of them have come true when he said they would. How he said that Jesus Christ would be and has been here on earth recently in the flesh. How he supports the act of necromancy which is against the word of God. Then once you have heard for yourselves compare this to the teachings of Jesus Christ himself.

There are many of Benny Hinns audio clips available on the net. Search for them and listen to them for yourselves perhaps then you might believe and will no longer condemn good and faithful Christians for condemning his teachings.

Did everyone here not see clearly what we wrote? Since I am so willing to condemn people?!

Imagine that this wasnt written here but in some other thread. Would you be saying the same things?

Quote from: peh on May 11, 2005, 10:07:27 PM
Instead of finding fault in posts with public figures, perhaps we'd be better off, if we believe someone is misusing the Word, or is prophesying falsely, to follow Scriptural procedures rather than to "speak evil of" them on posts.

Procedures such as Matt 18:15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. "

Twice Scriptures warn us:

2 Peter 2:9-10 "the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,.."

And Jude 1:8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.

While some say these "dignitaries" mentioned are not of flesh and blood but spiritual, it seems it would be wise not to be found among those who "speak evil of dignitaries", even if it is even remotely possible it may mean Benny Hinn.  
 
 

Amen sister! I had wanted to reply to this a lot sooner. Because at the time, I just had a revelation about this matter and was very eager to share it when I read this.

Earlier in this thread...this was exactly why I questioned these people here. I asked Evangelist to tell me what prophecies were false. Just like you said sister..."perhaps we'd be better off, if we believe someone is misusing the Word, or is prophesying falsely, to follow Scriptural procedures rather than to "speak evil of" them on posts." This is what is suppose to be done. Otherwise, we are judged by God himself.


Brothers and sisters, at this point...I still do not know if Benny Hinn is a false teacher and prophet...even after coming to a site that rebuked Hinn.

What is the situation here?

Consider the following:
A prophet of God comes. People call him a heretic and a liar. Therefore, people believe that and throw out everything that man says. What if...just what if what that man is saying is a Word from God??? Do you know who is at judgement here? Can we learn something from the OT? Do we not see that the trend of Israel were to reject the words from God's prophets? Do we not see that it were the pharisees themselves who rejected the Words of God Himself, Jesus Christ?!

God does not want people to easily ill-believe in people. This is JUDGING! You will be judged in like manner. You see...even if the prophet is false you will not be accountable for thinking he was real. But you will be held accountable if the prophet is true and you speak evil of him.


Why you are or are not accountable:
Say a person says he's the greatest basketball player in the world (the truth is he's not; he is lying). However, you believe him.

Then one day you meet him and watch him play a game. You find out from this that he didnt even score a point. So he exalted himself and he is then humbled by the truth. Judgement itself fell on him. There was no need for man to make this judgement. Otherwise, it is dangerous...

Now consider a person who says he is the greatest basketball player in the world (this is the truth; he is NOT lying). You hear people speak ill of him who say he's arrogant and cant even slam dunk. You hear and accept full heartedly these ill words against him. You do not believe he is the greatest basketball player in the world; you think he is just exalted himself. So who is at judgement here? YOU are! Because you choose to accept these false and ill words against him and you believed it! And not only that but you spread this word to others and bring them under your same judgement!


So what can we learn from this?
It is not wise to be so quick to bind yourself to hearsay. You need to find out the truth by seeing it. Just like if you watch these two basketplayers play in several games, you will find the truth. Then you will not be under judgement if you decide how good they are because you witnessed the truth.

This should be the basis of how we discern these things.

peh:
it seems it would be wise not to be found among those who "speak evil of dignitaries", even if it is even remotely possible it may mean Benny Hinn

felix:
It is not wise to be so quick to bind yourself to hearsay. You need to find out the truth by seeing it.


I still think the problem here is that people here are not speaking against what we have said but what they THINK was our intentions. I dont think either of us know who Benny Hinn is. We are neither supporting or going against him.

Next thing is you probably think that I am condemning you. If you will read again completely what I said especially near the end...

if you watch these two basketplayers play in several games, you will find the truth. Then you will not be under judgement if you decide how good they are because you witnessed the truth.

Audax came out and stated his clear stance against Benny Hinn. And enlightened us on how we should go about things.

Peh came out and stated she had no stance on Benny Hinn. And enlightened us on how we should go about things.

So are we going to have to correct Audax too?

[sinner]

peh,

I am not sure which version of the Bible that you are using. The KJV uses the word "dignities" in those two verses not dignitaries.  The original Greek word here is doxa which means "glory (as very apparent), in a wide application (literally or figuratively, objectively or subjectively): - dignity, glory (-ious), honour, praise, worship".

Matt 18:5 is when a brother sins against you. This is not in reference to teaching falsely. Nor are we as individuals judging this man but rather the Word of God is.

are just as JeAs true Christians we must expose false teachings for what they sus and the Apostles did.

amenandamen

[nChrist]

WOW!

It's past time to lock this thread!

We have pages of information in this thread from folks who state they have no information to be for or against Benny Hinn, yet Scriptures that have nothing to do with the subject are being used to rebuke brothers and sisters who do have information about Benny Hinn.

I'll make a random summary and lock this thread.

1 - Benny Hinn is a false prophet/teacher, and there are heavily documented sources that prove it.

2 - Benny Hinn isn't a false prophet/teacher, but I don't know anything about him.

3 - Pay attention to the Scriptures that deal with personal offenses and other unrelated issues. Shame on you for calling Benny Hinn a false prophet/teacher.

4 - Pay attention to the Scriptures that deal specifically with false prophets. Shame on you for condemning a required and Biblical practice.

Thread and
Topic Closed!