The Holy Father

[Tibby]

All christians are priests with Christ the high priest.

Well yes, even Catholic Believe in the Priesthood of believer. But on top of that Priesthood of Believers, there is a clergy. This clergy that choose to use the same name as the temple clergy of the old Testament. The fact that the Priest call themselves priests in no way negates anyone else from being a priest. If a Catholic father (the male parent, in this case) wants to have a mass in his house with just his family, he can, because he is the Head of his house, and one of the jobs of that goes with this title is the head priest of his house.

[ebia]

Not a precedent for "Holy Father", but father period.
The Holy is an infered given.
Why does Rome title their priests, the pope, etc. "father" when God's word says no?

What do you call your dad?

I take it you don't call anyone a teacher either?

To take those verses literally is absurd, if not impossible.

"To take those verses literally is absurd, if not impossible."

Why is it absurd and impossible.  It is the word of God given through His Holy Spirt. SIGH!

Christians do it 365/24/7

I believe the scripture is in reference to spiritual heavenly father, not physical. Calling priests and pope father seems to be in the spiritual mode.

So you're not taking it completely literally - your assuming it refers to spiritual fathers and not physical ones, something the text doesn't say.

[ebia]

All christians are priests with Christ the high priest.

Well yes, even Catholic Believe in the Priesthood of believer. But on top of that Priesthood of Believers, there is a clergy. This clergy that choose to use the same name as the temple clergy of the old Testament. The fact that the Priest call themselves priests in on way negates anyone else from being a priest.

The word priest when applied to the clergy is actually a contraction of Presbyter, as apposed to priest applied to the levitical priests, the high priest (Christ), priesthood of all believers, etc.   That's why RCC priests generally live in a presbytary.
http://www.antiochian.org/theology/Priest.htm
Confusing, I know, but that's English for you.

If a Catholic father (the male parent, in this case) wants to have a mass in his house with just his family, he can, because he is the Head of his house, and one of the jobs of that goes with this title is the head priest of his house.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong about this one, but feel free to prove me wrong.

[Tibby]

Are you telling me you don't think Catholic believe in a Priesthood of Believers?

I'm pretty sure you're wrong about this one, but feel free to prove me wrong.

Sorry, that is my group.

[ebia]

No, I'm telling you that being a priest, in the sense of priesthood of all belivers, doesn't enable one to celebrate mass.    For that, one should be a bishop.  Failing that, it can be done by the bishop's representative with the bishop's authority - a presbyter (priest).   Of course, diocese are now so large, that the bishop is almost never there in person, so it is virtually always delegated to the presbyter (priest).

[ebia]

Are you telling me you don't think Catholic believe in a Priesthood of Believers?

I'm pretty sure you're wrong about this one, but feel free to prove me wrong.

Sorry, that is my group.

Well, that well and truly distances you from any other major Church that thinks of itself as Catholic.  Messing with the three-fold order and their respective roles is one of the big no-no's of catholicity.   The fact that no-one has known what to do with deacons for years not withstanding.

[Tibby]

No, I'm telling you that being a priest, in the sense of priesthood of all belivers, doesn't enable one to celebrate mass.    For that, one should be a bishop.  Failing that, it can be done by the bishop's representative with the bishop's authority - a presbyter (priest).   Of course, diocese are now so large, that the bishop is almost never there in person, so it is virtually always delegated to the presbyter (priest).

 

[ebia]

Which bit don't you understand?

Yes, the Catholic church teaches the priesthood of all believers (though I don't think it exactly shouts about it).

However, the word priest applied to the clergy doesn't mean that sort of priest - it isn't that word at all, its a shortening in English of presbyter.  For the rest of this post I'll use presbyter when I mean this sort of priest, and priest as in the priesthood of all believers (poab).

Being a priest (poab) isn't a sufficient qualification to celebrate mass.   The mass should be celebrated by a bishop - its quite clear in the writings of the church fathers that communion was always led by the bishop.

However, since diocese are immensely larger than they were back then, the bishops have delegated their authority to celebrate mass to the presbyters within their diocese.  Nevertheless, the presbyters are doing so vicariously - on behalf of the bishop.  If the bishop is there, he should ALWAYS be the one presiding over the mass.

[Ambassador4Christ]

No Priesthood today only you two could even talk about it.

[ebia]

No Priesthood today only you two could even talk about it.

Why don't you make some attempt to actually understand what I've said?

[Ambassador4Christ]

No Priesthood today only you two could even talk about it.

Why don't you make some attempt to actually understand what I've said?

First of all I do understand. Secon I dont believe a thing you say.

[ebia]

No Priesthood today only you two could even talk about it.

Why don't you make some attempt to actually understand what I've said?

First of all I do understand.

Well, it certainly doesn't look like it from your previous post.

Secon I dont believe a thing you say.

I guess that's less effort than thinking about it.

[Ambassador4Christ]

No Priesthood today only you two could even talk about it.

Why don't you make some attempt to actually understand what I've said?

First of all I do understand.

Well, it certainly doesn't look like it from your previous post.

Second I dont believe a thing you say.

I guess that's less effort than thinking about it.

Like I said above, I dont believe a thing you say.

[sincereheart]

Ssshhh.... Don't tell Dyskolos, but I still have a question-

Still with my 'universal' ignorance....
Matthew 23 is talking about calling a religious leader "father", isn't it? As opposed to the "honoring your father and mother" kind of father...
So wouldn't that negate the comparison of the 'dad', 'pa', 'daddy', etc. kind that we use for our male parent?

And then wouldn't it be more offensive to add 'Holy' in front of it when referring to someone other than our earthly father?  

[Heidi]

Jesus warns us not to call anyone on the earth "father" because we only have one father. He doesn't worhsip His earthly mother or father because He's been born from above. When we Christians are born from above, we now only have one Father. The Catholic church glorifies earthly fathers and mothers which is one reason why they glorify Mary. If Catholics were born again from above, they wouldn't do that because they know their only Father. As a Christian, I would be mortified if someone called me "Holy Father". I would see it as sacreligious. If the pope had a personal relationship with His Father, he would know that there is only one Father. He would then also be mortified to consider himself the "Holy Father." The pope is glorifying himself, not God when he allows himself to be addressed that way.