Christian?? - Saved??

[avemaria]

So there you have it, you disagree with the scripture

LOL!  Gotta love it!

Ya know if we were fellow Protestants and we disagreed with *your* interpretation of Scripture, Michael and I could break apart and form a *new* Protestant denomination based on how *we* interpret the Sacred Scriptures!

Tell me....if *you* intrepret those passages one way and tell us that "the Holy Spirit has guided your interpretation" and Mr. Joe Smith says, "I disagree, *I* intrepret them a different way and *I* too am under the guidance of the Holy Spirit."  BUT WAIT, then there is Mrs. Joan Black and she says, "No, you are both wrong, the Holy Spirit has guided *me* in a different interpretation of those passages."

What do we have here folks?  Chaos!  Confusion!  And alas, three MORE Protestant denominations!

Without the proper teaching authority ESTABLISHED by Jesus Christ in St. MAtthew's Gospel chapter 16, you have chaos!

It is exactly like if our country got rid of all authority and let "every man for himself".  COme on, you know it would never last.  It would be mass chaos.  Exactly what you Prots have!  That's what happens when you turn away from the established authority Jesus established.

[Petro]

So there you have it, you disagree with the scripture

LOL!  Gotta love it!

Ya know if we were fellow Protestants and we disagreed with *your* interpretation of Scripture, Michael and I could break apart and form a *new* Protestant denomination based on how *we* interpret the Sacred Scriptures!

You already follow another gospel, I can't imagine why, you would ever want to know the truth of what the Word teaches.

But you don't have to not know what Gods Word teaches, His desire is that all men come to repentance.

That none should perish.

Without the proper teaching authority ESTABLISHED by Jesus Christ in St. MAtthew's Gospel chapter 16, you have chaos!

You probably didn't notice but, I quoted Jesus own words..

It is exactly like if our country got rid of all authority and let "every man for himself".  COme on, you know it would never last.  It would be mass chaos.  Exactly what you Prots have!  That's what happens when you turn away from the established authority Jesus established.

I am amazed you can recognize this.  One must compare scripture with scripture, so as not to be deceived,  the whole word of God doesn't consist of one verse,

If you noticed ( Ohhh, of course you didn't)  I quoted Jesus where He was speaking of His sheep, just as He was mentioning them together with the goats at Mat 25.

But then again, how am I to know you did not know this.

Blessings,
Petro
 

[ollie]

First of all, no one has any right to judge another's "salvation" or not.  This is the sin of presumption for which all of you will answer for.

I never agreed with this and avoided at all costs judging someone else's salvation, even when I was a baptist, when someone would tell me, "well pray for him, he's not saved" or "praise God, this person just got saved"!

NO ONE KNOWS THE HEART OF A MAN except God Almighty.  You should NEVER judge another's man heart!!

"for which all of you will answer for"


Is this a judgement on your part?
 Can you give scripture for it. Who has to answer for the "sin of presumption"?

 The word of God determines who is saved and who isn't and one can make judgements accordingly. Otherwise it would be useless to preach the good news of Jesus Christ. Every time Paul went on His journeys to preach he presumed they were not saved and so preached the good news to them. Is Paul guilty of the "sin of presumption"?

 Man has to answer and will receive judgement for his sins outside of Christ. If in Christ His blood cleans the sin away if repented of and continues to wash if sins committed are repented and forgiveness of God asked.

By their fruits you shall know them.

[Allinall]

Curious to me that none of you will say yes or no.  This means you are not certain of what the answer is.

Is it ok to say "This person is saved, and that person is not saved?"

The answer?  No. Why?  Because we do not know if someone is saved.  However, the point Tom was making is that if you do not believe what God has said in His word concerning eternal life and how that gift is received then you are not, may I repeat? YOU ARE NOT SAVED[/b].  I am not stating this.  God already has sister.  Either you agree with God or you do not.  Am I sitting here judging anyone?  No!  How can I say this?  Because the only way I can know if someone isn't saved is if I hear that they don't believe Jesus to be God's Son, sent as their substitionary atonement for their sin, or they claim that their salvation can be earned apart from God's plan.  

Now, if someone like Tom claims the the truth of God's word concerning salvation as his own yet has no fruits to match his claim, can I then say he isn't saved?  No!  No more than I could say that he is saved.  If someone blatantly goes against God's word then you need not wonder.  If they agree, and claim, then "love bears all things, believes all things...etc"

[Petro]

Michael,

You are smoke screening like the others who hold to your doctrines.

In what way is my pointing out your error in the use of a scripture smokescreening as you put it?  If you have a legitimate scripture that shows what you claim then lets see it but don't pull out a verse that says one thing and claim it says something else.

It is you who are putting up a smoke screen by changing your claims from goats being distinguished by the gospel to the idea that those of this gospel are those that do not enter in at the door as soon as someone points out the error of your interpretation.  If you wanted to be honest in your analysis you would either defend you interpretation or admit your mistake instead of changing your analogyto avoid the embarassment.

The principle of the Word of God is not limited to onbe verse, but the entire Word.

Goats are always typified by the unsaved, while sheep the children of God, begining with Christ the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the World.

I pointed out to you what is wrong with your FAITH WORKS gospel, in that day those who reject the Gospel of GRACE, will be judged according to their works.

You have pointed out nothing - you have claimed all kinds of things but never offered any scripture that truly supported the claims when a detailed analysis was done.

Wrong again,

If becoming a child of God, depends on whether you accept or reject Jesus then, you would be saved according to your will.  

If this is so,  Your salvation ultimately depends on your will. God is unable to do anything until you decide to accept or reject.

No matter how much you wish this to be so, it is not so, and can never be so.

This is the error espoused by those who know not the scriptures.

Listen to what the inspired Word teaches.

Jhn 1
1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

You know these verses; however you do not believe them;

Now listen carefully;

10  He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew him not.
11  He came unto his own, and His own received him not.
12  But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:
13  Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

You would argue with God's own words, written for our edification .. I believe God, not you...  especially someone who denies this very passage of scipture.

Eph 2
2:1  And you hath he made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins:
2  Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4  But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5  Even when we were dead in sins, hath made us alive  together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

These are they that do not enter in at the door,

Jhn 10
1  ......but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2  But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3  ............... and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
5  And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Now we get a chance to look at your new approach to the issue, your next smokescreen as it were.   The one that enters in through the door is the shepherd.  The stranger, thief and robber is the one who climbeth up some other way.  But this stranger is being contrasted to the shepherd not the sheep, this stranger is not goats.  You have mixed your metaphors and this sloppy type of analysis is the reason you always seem to end up with wrong conclusions, or at least cannot offer reasonable support for the ones you hold.

I never said anything about the goat being the stranger or vice a versa, you getting confused here.

It is the goats who climb up some other way , make no mistake about it....a goat with horns. and they follow a stranger who I might add also has horns.

The goats follow the voice of strangers.............

Now you are just putting words in the mouth of scripture.  This idea appears nowhere in the bible.  It says the sheep will not follow him but it does not say the goats will.  You can just slop different parables together willy nilly and expect to get sound doctrine out as a result.

I am glad to see you recognize the stranger is a he, the stranbger personifies Satan the evil one.

The sheep certainly do not obey the voice of this stranger.

Who do you suppose, put these notions in these goats head that they could be saved by faith doing good works??

The Faith and good works gospel is what this stranger uses to deceive goats.

This is why those that perish are goats, their works did not produce anything for them, though they invoked the name of the Lord, and did something.

This time you are mixing your parables.  Those who cried Lord , Lord and cast out demons in His name were not goats, nowhere in scripture are they identified as goats,

michael, please refer to your reply #16, you even posted the following verses; what is the matter with you anyhow, aren't we talking of sheep and goats here??

Mat 25
32  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

They placed their faith in their works.

No they did not - they placed their faith in JUST their works.  There is a big difference from trying to merit your salvation strictly through works and accepting the free gift through faith and works together fulfilling the spirit of the law.

No they presumed that they were known by the shepherd.

Clearly their faith, not the Faith Gods gives, was what the trusted in plus there own works.

Now notice where the goats wind up;

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

No one is arguing where the goats end up - pay attention - we are arguing about who the goats represent, and you have gotten it wrong three times now.

No, he is speaking of the nations of the world, more prcisely the peoples who are represented by these nations.  Read verse 32, again.

So there you have it, you disagree with the scripture.

You get the interpretation wrong and somehow I am disagreeing with scripture?  Hardly!

I say read the passage at Mat 25:31-46, again.

Yes, my friend you disagree with Gods Word.


Blessings,
Petro

[Petro]

michael,

You need to read responses before you reply to them, If you look at my reply #26, there are no other passages except John 10, which I used to make my point on Mat 25..

You got yourself confused, it is easy to do, when so many scriptures need to be reconciled in your thoughts.

Go slow..

Blessings, Petro

[sincereheart]

"Why not make it even simpler.....

avemaria, Are you assured of YOUR salvation? "


My question still stands....

[michael_legna]

michael,

You need to read responses before you reply to them, If you look at my reply #26, there are no other passages except John 10, which I used to make my point on Mat 25..

You got yourself confused, it is easy to do, when so many scriptures need to be reconciled in your thoughts.

Go slow..

Blessings, Petro

Don't be so condescending - I read your post.  But you are not the only one allowed to add scriptures to their posts.  You referred to invoking the name of the Lord and I provided the verse that was clearly implied.  I then show you your error in interpreting it and you want to hide behind the vaguries of your technique.
 

[Petro]

michael,

You need to read responses before you reply to them, If you look at my reply #26, there are no other passages except John 10, which I used to make my point on Mat 25..

You got yourself confused, it is easy to do, when so many scriptures need to be reconciled in your thoughts.

Go slow..

Blessings, Petro

Don't be so condescending - I read your post.

I doubt it.

 But you are not the only one allowed to add scriptures to their posts.  You referred to invoking the name of the Lord and I provided the verse that was clearly implied.  I then show you your error in interpreting it and you want to hide behind the vaguries of your technique.
 

Oh, please michael,

You need to get on the same page.

My reply#26 had nothing to do, with what your response to what you replied concerning the verses you used at your reply #16.

Get serious....I trust you are not another 19 year old, trying to hide behind your imturity, using it as an excuse for your twisted confused view of the Word..

You said;

You referred to invoking the name of the Lord and I provided the verse that was clearly implied.

You are talking of  Mat 7:21??, I am speaking of Mat 25, which is the scriptures you raised at your reply #16, you never mentioned Mat 7, ther at all.  

You are having a conversation you must be having with yourself, this is how you got confused, here.   Whoopi...

The fact is the goats of Mat 25, clearly thought presumptously that by their works together with their own faith, was good enough to get them to be known by the Shepherd.

Get with it...they simply were wrong, because the gospel they  adhered to was WRONG.

And such it will be with all those that embrace another gospel.

But it doesn't to be this way for you..

Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.  Faith, is the gift given by God to them that hear.

This is why He encourages those that may hear;  

Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have. Lk 8:18

To the religious men of HIS day Jesus said;

If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. Jhn 9:41

Can you hear and understand what I am saying to you, michael??

Blessings,
Petro

[Petro]

michael,

Now, if you want to consider the goats at Mat 7:21, you may..in the light of what Jesus said.

The goats of Mat 7:21-22, He refers to at Lk 6:46, these are they, who call to Him, Lord  Lord, today, and will do also in that day, but do not the things which I say?

The reason this is so, is because they think that in the doing of the things said, they have eternal life.

But Jesus made it clear, it isn't;

Note what He said to the relgious men of His day;

Jhn 5
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

It is because there is nothing one can do, but obey, the commandment. (Acts 17:30), Because Jesus is that prophet whom the Father sent of Deut 18:18-19.

Men will be judged by every word that came out of His mouth which He has spoken in the name of God the Father and still speaks to us thru the written word.

You will say, I already have received Him....and I say if you really have then you would believe Him.

But you really haven't this is why you do not believe Him.

Everyone who receives, obeys, and believes His Words, He says;

  ..I give unto them eternal life; .

Read John 10:25-30...............

You say, No he doesn't everyone has to work to receive eternal life.

You do greatly error..


Blessings,

Petro

[michael_legna]

Now, if you want to consider the goats at Mat 7:21, you may..in the light of what Jesus said.

You must just make this up as you go along, either that or you don't read the verses you recommend.  Matt 7:21 doesn't refer to goats at all, and you can't link them to goats just because you want them to be.  To rightly interpret scripture you can't force topics on it.

The goats of Mat 7:21-22, He refers to at Lk 6:46, these are they, who call to Him, Lord  Lord, today, and will do also in that day, but do not the things which I say?

The reason this is so, is because they think that in the doing of the things said, they have eternal life.

Luke 6:46 doesn't talk about goats either.  You can't keep forcing your impressions upon the Word of God and expect to get proper doctrine out of your interpretations.

The goats are the ones who did not do the works of mercy described in the verses that reference sheep and goats.

It is interesting to note that in both of these verses we have individuals (not goats) who claim to have done works of the law trying to merit slavation (soemthing the goats didn't do) and did not have works of the spirit of the law - works of love that keep a faith alive.

These are two different problems that face a Christian and when you try to lump them together you get some bad doctrine.

But Jesus made it clear, it isn't;

Note what He said to the relgious men of His day;

Jhn 5
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Yes look at that set of verses it is declaring Christ divinity and saying that without God's word in us we cannot be saved.  But you automatically assume that God's word mean our faith, but God's word includes faith and our obedience.  We have to accept Jesus both in His role as sacrificial lamb and in His role as shepherd.  We must follow Him to truly have God's word in us and that means obedience to the Gospel and that means works to keep our faith alive.  It also says we have to come to Him, that is an action on our part it is a choice we make because of our free will.

It is because there is nothing one can do, but obey, the commandment. (Acts 17:30),

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
-- does not say that "there is nothing one can due but obey"  where do you get this stuff?

Everyone who receives, obeys, and believes His Words, He says;

  ..I give unto them eternal life; .

Notice once again your own choice of verses betray you, we have to believe and obey (works) in order to accept the gift freely given.

Read John 10:25-30...............

You say, No he doesn't everyone has to work to receive eternal life.

No He says we have to believe, but what does it mean to believe?  Do we have to just accept Jesus once lived?  Do we have to accept Him as the Son of God?  Do we also have to accept Him as sacrificial lamb?  Or do we have to also accpet Him as shepherd and follow Him?  John 10:27 seems to indicate so.  Faith is not merely a mental ascent to a concept (even the demons have that) it is a full acceptance of all the teachings of Christ, and by full acceptance that means putting them into action.  Your definition of faith is just too limited to understand these verses.

[michael_legna]

If becoming a child of God, depends on whether you accept or reject Jesus then, you would be saved according to your will.  

If this is so,  Your salvation ultimately depends on your will. God is unable to do anything until you decide to accept or reject.

Yes of course man plays a part in our own salvation.  But no God can do something prior to our decision to accept or reject the gift.  He loves us and offers the gift, the rest of it is up to us to show our love in return by holding on to that gift through keeping our faith alive.

God gives us salvation freely and we either choose to hold on to it or not.  A free gift can be taken for granted and dropped along the road side.  God doesn’t at judgment day ask to measure our works and then say oh you merited or oh you did not merit salvation.  Instead, He turns to us and asks: Do you still have that gift I gave you back awhile ago, you know the one you accepted with a living faith; and if we have kept our faith alive with works through all our tribulations and temptation we can say yes.  If we have not then we have to say no I threw it away and thus we have lost our salvation.

Jhn 1
1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

You know these verses; however you do not believe them;

I know them and believe them.  But they do not say anything contrary to my interpretation of the rest of scripture and since you have been to lazy once again to offer an interpretation to make you point clear I don't know what relevance you think they have to this issue.

Now listen carefully;

10  He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew him not.
11  He came unto his own, and His own received him not.
12  But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:
13  Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

This says that if we receive Him (our choice - our will) then through God's power which we are given, we are reborn.  Not by our power or will but by God's.  You have to look at the flow of the story and see that there is a timeline being followed.  The being born again (which is not by our will)occurs after we have received Him (which does occur by our will).

You would argue with God's own words, written for our edification .. I believe God, not you...  especially someone who denies this very passage of scipture.

I argue with your interpretation and not with God's word and I never denied this passage only your intepretation of it.

Eph 2
2:1  And you hath he made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins:
2  Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4  But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5  Even when we were dead in sins, hath made us alive  together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Once again a verse you were too lazy to interpret and one I find no problem incorporating into my doctrine.  What is oyur point!

I never said anything about the goat being the stranger or vice a versa, you getting confused here.

It is the goats who climb up some other way , make no mistake about it....a goat with horns. and they follow a stranger who I might add also has horns.

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you were trying to link the goats to the stranger, but I won't do that again.  Scripture says it is the stranger who climbs up some other way and you say it is the goats.  I guess I will believe scripture.

The goats follow the voice of strangers.............

Now you are just putting words in the mouth of scripture.  This idea appears nowhere in the bible.  It says the sheep will not follow him but it does not say the goats will.  You can just slop different parables together willy nilly and expect to get sound doctrine out as a result.

I am glad to see you recognize the stranger is a he, the stranbger personifies Satan the evil one.

The sheep certainly do not obey the voice of this stranger.

Notice how you completely ignore the error in your previous post and instead try to change the subject and bring up another point.  Time to get honest with yourself Petro.

Who do you suppose, put these notions in these goats head that they could be saved by faith doing good works??

Did you read the verse?  The goats are accused by Christ of not doing works.  Not of doing faith and works.  So I don't know who put that notion in your head.

[Petro]

Now, if you want to consider the goats at Mat 7:21, you may..in the light of what Jesus said.

You must just make this up as you go along, either that or you don't read the verses you recommend.  Matt 7:21 doesn't refer to goats at all, and you can't link them to goats just because you want them to be.  To rightly interpret scripture you can't force topics on it.

Oh but you are wrong, there are three (tres) words in the passage at Mat 7, that indellibly connect  Mat 25 and the goats together, you obviously have not read the passage which you brought up, both of these speak clearly of the final judgement.

And please don't forget;  Jesus is speaking in both passages Note:

22 Many will say to me in that day,

Can you see goats, now??  

Read Mat 25:31-32.  Now connect the dots.....

The goats of Mat 7:21-22, He refers to at Lk 6:46, these are they, who call to Him, Lord  Lord, today, and will do also in that day, but do not the things which I say?

The reason this is so, is because they think that in the doing of the things said, they have eternal life.

Luke 6:46 doesn't talk about goats either.  You can't keep forcing your impressions upon the Word of God and expect to get proper doctrine out of your interpretations.

Only the sheep are Jesus's brothers, these are they that do the will of my Father which is in heaven. Jhn 12:50

Sorry you are unable to grasp this...

The goats are the ones who did not do the works of mercy described in the verses that reference sheep and goats.

It is interesting to note that in both of these verses we have individuals (not goats) who claim to have done works of the law trying to merit slavation (soemthing the goats didn't do) and did not have works of the spirit of the law - works of love that keep a faith alive.

Wrong answer,  How about The goats did not do the will of God.

These are two different problems that face a Christian and when you try to lump them together you get some bad doctrine.

Thats exactly what I have been telling you, faith works to be saved, do not mix well, faith only will result is God Glorifying Work plesasing Him.

But Jesus made it clear, it isn't;

Note what He said to the relgious men of His day;

Jhn 5
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Yes look at that set of verses it is declaring Christ divinity and saying that without God's word in us we cannot be saved.  But you automatically assume that God's word mean our faith, but God's word includes faith and our obedience.

Wrong again,  don't presume to know what I mean,  the word of God rules herein,  and doesn't need you to interpret it, in your presumption.

At Verse 37, Jesus is making reference to these unbelieving Jews that had neither heard the voice of God nor seeing His form, this is because they did not have HIS WORD abiding in them (you see, God speaks to us today through HIS WORD the Bible), these Jews had the OT scriptures, but did not allow God to speak to them through HIS WORD, their hearts were so hardened an their ears were dull of hearing, yet they thought they knew the way, thinking that by doing they could gain eternal life.

But the scriptures are clear that by the keeping of the law no flesh will justified in HIS sight. (Rom 3:20), for by the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

You simply do not understand, nor know what you are talking about.
 

We have to accept Jesus both in His role as sacrificial lamb and in His role as shepherd.  

The result of believing the witness of the Holy Spirit is believeing and accepting Jesus.

You have it wrong, men perish for commiting Blasphemy against the Holy Spiirt, whether one lives or dies, is based on what men do with the witness of the Holy Spirit, when a man believes the witness of the  Holy Spirit He is then given to Jesus by the Father, it is then Phil 1:29, becomes a reality.

You are wrong.....Jesus said;


 
  Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
  And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. (Mat 12:31-32)

It is because there is nothing one can do, but obey, the commandment. (Acts 17:30),

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
-- does not say that "there is nothing one can due but obey"  where do you get this stuff?

Correction, it doesn't mean that to you, because you teach man can go straight to believe and bypass obedience.

Man cannot believe anything unless he repents, pure and simple.

Everyone who receives, obeys, and believes His Words, He says;

  ..I give unto them eternal life; .

Notice once again your own choice of verses betray you, we have to believe and obey (works) in order to accept the gift freely given.

There is a difference between Believe and believe, you just don't know it..because you focus in your free will.  Its the flesh, and the vanity of the natural man, which speaks to you,, instead listening God's Word you re minterpret it according to make it fit your doctrine..

Read John 10:25-30...............

You say, No he doesn't everyone has to work to receive eternal life.

No He says we have to believe, but what does it mean to believe?  

I already answered that for you...I know you are unable to understand this, but what can I say, I can only testify to the truth.  

God has to reveal the truth to you..you are stuck with wanting to  excersize your freewill.

Blessings,

Petro

[Allinall]

No reply as of yet...must be out of town for the season.

[The Crusader]

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

There are a ton of labels people keep tacking onto themselves and others. If a person sincerely made the following statement, would they be a Christian and Saved?
________________________

I believe in One God, Almighty God, the creator of all life and everything that is seen or unseen in all existence.

I believe that Almighty God is a Holy Trinity, yet one God: (1) God, the Father, (2) God, the Son (Jesus Christ), and (3) God, the Holy Spirit.

I believe that all men sin, possess no righteousness of their own, fall far short of acceptance by Almighty God, can do no work or deed to make themselves acceptable to God, and are doomed to the curse of sin and death unless a Saviour intervenes on their behalf.

I believe that Almighty God sent his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to be born of a virgin, take the form of a man, and live a Holy life without sin. I believe that Jesus Christ was convicted and sentenced to death for sins He did not commit. In fact, I believe that Jesus Christ was crucified and suffered agony and death for our sins and in our place.

I believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, arose from the dead on the third day, and ascended back into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father as the Lord and Saviour of all who will believe in Him, confess their sins, request forgiveness for their sins, and ask Him to come into their heart as their personal Lord and Saviour. I believe that Jesus Christ is the only perfect sacrifice for my sins, that His blood washes away my sins, and Jesus Christ is the only Gift I can accept for eternal Salvation. I believe the Gift of Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour demonstrates the matchless Grace and Love of Almighty God. I could never pay for or earn this precious Gift from Almighty God, so all Glory, Honor, and Thanks will be to Almighty God through my precious Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Yes, I do believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, very God, and I believe that he died on the cross for my sins. I believe that Jesus Christ arose from the dead on the third day and is the ONLY Living Lord and Saviour of man. I know that I am nothing but a worthless sinner, but Jesus Christ loves me, gave himself for me, and suffered agony and death in my place. The conviction, sentence,  and punishment were mine, but Jesus Christ paid it all for me.  I have confessed my sins to Jesus Christ and prayed that Jesus Christ would forgive me and cleanse me from all unrighteousness. I asked Jesus Christ to come into my heart as my personal Lord and Saviour.

I believe that Almighty God sent His Holy Spirit to baptize and cleanse my soul of all unrighteousness, live in my heart forever, and place His Seal on my heart that sets me apart as a child of God forever. My sins have been forgiven, and the blood of Jesus Christ makes me acceptable to Almighty God. I am worthy and acceptable ONLY in Jesus Christ because it is HIS righteousness, not mine, that makes me worthy and acceptable.  Now I belong to Jesus Christ, my Lord and Saviour. He lives in me and I live in HIM forever. I belong to an Eternal Church not made with human hands, the Church which is The Body of Christ. Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable Gift, Jesus Christ, my Lord and Saviour, my Salvation! To God be All Glory forever.  AMEN!
_________________________

Nothing added or taken away - Is this person a Christian and Saved? If no, please explain why not.

Love In Christ,
Tom

My answer was also yes. Good doctrine and its the word of God.

The Crusader