Should War in Iraq be Supported by Christians?

[Shammu]

Now then Berean_Standards, the answer to your question.

War with Iraq, is justified according to biblical standard.

A key responsibility of the civil government is to protect its citizens from attack by wrongdoers. This involves punishing those who break the law. It also involves defending the nation from every external attacker, including nations, other groups of people or dangerous pests and diseases. All these responsibilities are encompassed in the power of the sword Romans 13:1-8. Therefore, pacifism is not a Christian option.

War is only justified for defense Romans 13:1-8. It should not be used to expand a nation's boundaries, or to take control of another nation, or to extract trade advantages. This is a fundamental principle. A nation should never need to establish military domination in another region or nation. This doctrine covers pre-emptive strikes which is when a country attacks an enemy who is about to attack.

The militia should be up made of volunteers. Anyone who is faint-hearted or afraid should not be forced to fight Deut 20:5-9. People who are at a critical stage in their lives should not be forced into military service. For example, men who have recently married, started building a house or started a business should be freed from service, because they would not be focused on the battle.

Only the civil government has authority to declare war. Individuals or companies do not have the authority to commit a nation to war. Any declaration of war must be in accordance with correct legal processes [/b]Deut 20:10[/b]

A Christian government should only declare war if it thinks it has a reasonable chance of success. Jesus said that before a king goes to war, he should sit down and consider whether he can match the army that is coming against him. If not he will send a delegation to ask for terms of peace Luke 14:31-32, even if this involves a loss of freedom. For Christians freedom is not an absolute value. It may be better to lose freedom to govern, than to lose a large number of lives in an unsuccessful defense. In fact, because Jesus has set us free, we cannot lose our freedom.

Forgive enemies once they are defeated. Jesus said, "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." Stephen said, "Lord, do not charge them with this sin." We should treat enemies as God has treated us for we were enemies of God before coming to Christ and He forgave us. Luke 23:34; Acts 7:60; Colossians 1:21-23

Those who persist in evil and refuse to live at peace are to be firmly dealt with in the Lord. We are not to sit back and do nothing or continually appease those who do evil. Psalm 109 We are not to be naive or pacifistic.

Always keep in mind that earthly wars have spiritual elements. Paul was inspired to write that our primary battle is not against flesh and blood people but against Satan and his minions and we should fight it as such. Ephesians 6:10-18

Resting in the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Ezekiel 33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

[Soldier4Christ]

Ha ha ha

Yeah, you'll be laughing at the liberals when they're lunatic kids and anarchist legions are destroying our homes, cars and businesses like they're doing in Paris right now. That's when you'll want guns, my friends. But by then we'll have let the liberals take away our second ammendment rights, so you won't even have guns to protect yourselves with.

Yeah, really, why am I even getting concerned over this? This is a nation that allows abortion and is about to allow gay marriage. How could I expect my fellow Christians to see past their own emotions and experiences to see the truth? For the next Katrina they may as well just hand out 666 stamps instead of debit cards. Everyone will jump in.

Let's all have a party and buy the "Purpose Driven Life" woo hooo!!!!!

I could be wrong, but I'm smelling a type of metal.  

Anyone else?

Yep, I smell it, too.

[nChrist]

This is from the Christian site xxxxxxxx.com. It is awesome:

ADVERTISING LINK REMOVED

It's called "xxx xx x xxxxx" It's why I think the way I do. If it's wrong, if it's Michael Moore "LLL" baloney, go ahead and show me.

WOW!!  You sure did go to a lot of trouble to advertise on a forum that doesn't allow advertising. It's too bad that you wasted all that time, but at least it was worth a couple of laughs.

Moderator

[Berean_Standard]

To Dreamweaver, thank you for your response, and your defense of the faith. It's good to see someone here can stand by their beliefs with a defense rather than just insult someone with opposing opinions and cast them away, even if they play devil's advocate. Apparently no one else here has a response to the liberals about these issues, or other Christians like myself.

To Pastor Paul, again I respect your military service, but I question your pastoring skills, and I definitely question your ability to win coverts, especially those who might have differing political opinions if you can't engage in a debate with even a fellow believer.

To cris and blackeyedpeas, you insult before you can even debate, how do you win converts to Christ this way? This is why America hates us, not because we are outstanding Christians, but because we can't even defend our beliefs with information and discussion, we snigger in our little safe corner and cast insults.

Also, that was not an advertising link- that was a link to an article. You are obviously too narrow-minded to even read it.

I can't believe you actually removed me from this site. Is this really a Christian site? Isn't this the section for debates? Well when it got hot in the kitchen, I wasn't the one to leave. Good luck winning people for Christ, you would probably make us look bad here in California so you should maybe stick to the Bible belt.

God bless

[airIam2worship]

Ha ha ha

Yeah, you'll be laughing at the liberals when they're lunatic kids and anarchist legions are destroying our homes, cars and businesses like they're doing in Paris right now. That's when you'll want guns, my friends. But by then we'll have let the liberals take away our second ammendment rights, so you won't even have guns to protect yourselves with.

Yeah, really, why am I even getting concerned over this? This is a nation that allows abortion and is about to allow gay marriage. How could I expect my fellow Christians to see past their own emotions and experiences to see the truth? For the next Katrina they may as well just hand out 666 stamps instead of debit cards. Everyone will jump in.

Let's all have a party and buy the "Purpose Driven Life" woo hooo!!!!!

I could be wrong, but I'm smelling a type of metal.  

Anyone else?

yep I smell it too.

[airIam2worship]

To Dreamweaver, thank you for your response, and your defense of the faith. It's good to see someone here can stand by their beliefs with a defense rather than just insult someone with opposing opinions and cast them away, even if they play devil's advocate. Apparently no one else here has a response to the liberals about these issues, or other Christians like myself.

To Pastor Paul, again I respect your military service, but I question your pastoring skills, and I definitely question your ability to win coverts, especially those who might have differing political opinions if you can't engage in a debate with even a fellow believer.

To cris and blackeyedpeas, you insult before you can even debate, how do you win converts to Christ this way? This is why America hates us, not because we are outstanding Christians, but because we can't even defend our beliefs with information and discussion, we snigger in our little safe corner and cast insults.

Also, that was not an advertising link- that was a link to an article. You are obviously too narrow-minded to even read it.

I can't believe you actually removed me from this site. Is this really a Christian site? Isn't this the section for debates? Well when it got hot in the kitchen, I wasn't the one to leave. Good luck winning people for Christ, you would probably make us look bad here in California so you should maybe stick to the Bible belt.

God bless

BEREAN STANDARDS,
 JUDGE NOT THAT YE NOT BE JUDGED

 Lu 6:37 ¶  Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

 Mt 7:1 ¶ Judge not, that ye be not judged.

 1Co 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self

Got the Message???

[LittlePilgrim]

Quote from: Berean_Standard on Today at 02:34:03am
To Dreamweaver, thank you for your response, and your defense of the faith. It's good to see someone here can stand by their beliefs with a defense rather than just insult someone with opposing opinions and cast them away, even if they play devil's advocate. Apparently no one else here has a response to the liberals about these issues, or other Christians like myself.

To Pastor Paul, again I respect your military service, but I question your pastoring skills, and I definitely question your ability to win coverts, especially those who might have differing political opinions if you can't engage in a debate with even a fellow believer.

To cris and blackeyedpeas, you insult before you can even debate, how do you win converts to Christ this way? This is why America hates us, not because we are outstanding Christians, but because we can't even defend our beliefs with information and discussion, we snigger in our little safe corner and cast insults.

Also, that was not an advertising link- that was a link to an article. You are obviously too narrow-minded to even read it.

I can't believe you actually removed me from this site. Is this really a Christian site? Isn't this the section for debates? Well when it got hot in the kitchen, I wasn't the one to leave. Good luck winning people for Christ, you would probably make us look bad here in California so you should maybe stick to the Bible belt.

God bless
 
 

BEREAN STANDARDS,
JUDGE NOT THAT YE NOT BE JUDGED

Lu 6:37 ¶  Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Mt 7:1 ¶ Judge not, that ye be not judged.

1Co 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self

Got the Message???

OUCH! Boy... I almost said something here, but it appears it is being answered quite well by others. XD

[Soldier4Christ]

To Dreamweaver, thank you for your response, and your defense of the faith. It's good to see someone here can stand by their beliefs with a defense rather than just insult someone with opposing opinions and cast them away, even if they play devil's advocate. Apparently no one else here has a response to the liberals about these issues, or other Christians like myself.

To Pastor Paul, again I respect your military service, but I question your pastoring skills, and I definitely question your ability to win coverts, especially those who might have differing political opinions if you can't engage in a debate with even a fellow believer.

To cris and blackeyedpeas, you insult before you can even debate, how do you win converts to Christ this way? This is why America hates us, not because we are outstanding Christians, but because we can't even defend our beliefs with information and discussion, we snigger in our little safe corner and cast insults.

Also, that was not an advertising link- that was a link to an article. You are obviously too narrow-minded to even read it.

I can't believe you actually removed me from this site. Is this really a Christian site? Isn't this the section for debates? Well when it got hot in the kitchen, I wasn't the one to leave. Good luck winning people for Christ, you would probably make us look bad here in California so you should maybe stick to the Bible belt.

God bless

No one removed you from this site, at least not yet, so cool your heels. The link you provided did link to items being offered for sale therfore it constitutes advertisement. Read and understand the forum rules. I strongly suggest before you go any further and stick your foot in your mouth again that you do read the forum rules.

You have also crossed the line on personal attacks. Again read the forum rules. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

These are not debateable points. This is an official warning and the last one that you will get.

Moderator

[Florida_Catholic]

The problem here is that so many are brainwashed into thinking that the Republican party is somehow the political party you should align yourself with for Christian values.  Too many are afraid to think for themselves, or believe thinking for themselves may lead them down the wrong path.  Recent events clearly show a corrupt Republican party, void of morals in their politics, that still has the unjustified and unwavering loyalty of too many Christians.  People want to believe there is a light side political party and a dark side political party, while the truth is split between each party and often held by neither or sometimes both.  So you have a bunch of lunatics dancing around like monkeys cheerleading when they hear words like liberal and conservative, Republican and Democrat, without having any interest in learning the facts and becoming educated.

[Soldier4Christ]

The problem here is that so many are brainwashed into thinking that the Republican Democratic party is somehow the political party you should align yourself with for Christian values.  Too many are afraid to think for themselves, or believe thinking for themselves may lead them down the wrong path.  Recent Historical events clearly show a corrupt Republican Democratic party, void of morals in their politics, that still has the unjustified and unwavering loyalty of too many Christians.  People want to believe there is a light side political party and a dark side political party, while the truth is split between each party and often held by neither or sometimes both.  So you have a bunch of lunatics dancing around like monkeys cheerleading when they hear words like liberal and conservative, Republican and Democrat, without having any interest in learning the facts and becoming educated.

[LittlePilgrim]

WAY TO GO PASTOR ROGER! AMEN BROTHER!

F_C, I am going to ask you the same thing I ask every liberal nutcase I run across. WHERE IS YOUR CONCRETE PROOF? Or have you only the allegations of the leftist media? Hm?

[thommy]

Hi all,

To F.C., I admire your conviction to keep making reasonable arguments when it is clear, that the points you are trying to make aren't even being read.  I think the two posts that immediately follow your comment regarding people's unwillingness to examine each party for what they are, rather than what they are said to be, is a perfect example of the kind of thought that is so indoctrinated here in CU.  Some people flattly refuse to even look at the errors made by the republicans (just as some refuse to look at errors of democrats) and that sort of rabid adhearance to one part saddens me, and it weakens our democracy.  Pastor Roger made that abundantly clear when he refused to comment on the content or validity of your post, prefering instead to demonstrate his own dogmatic politics.  That's not a personal attack Roger, you are more than welcome to your views on the way the nation is run, and I vote republican too.  I just don't think they are either infallable, nor are they a party who looks to God for their direction.  Karl Rove should be proof enough of that.

As far as little pilgrim is concerned, I have to admit, they have organized for themselves a fantastic racket.  If  I mention any problem with the current administration, it will just be countered by the claim that it is only a fabrication of the liberal media.  Man, what a sweet scam.  I applaud you.

Thanks for the discussion though,

Thommy

[nChrist]

Hi all,

To F.C., I admire your conviction to keep making reasonable arguments when it is clear, that the points you are trying to make aren't even being read.  I think the two posts that immediately follow your comment regarding people's unwillingness to examine each party for what they are, rather than what they are said to be, is a perfect example of the kind of thought that is so indoctrinated here in CU.  Some people flattly refuse to even look at the errors made by the republicans (just as some refuse to look at errors of democrats) and that sort of rabid adhearance to one part saddens me, and it weakens our democracy.  Pastor Roger made that abundantly clear when he refused to comment on the content or validity of your post, prefering instead to demonstrate his own dogmatic politics.  That's not a personal attack Roger, you are more than welcome to your views on the way the nation is run, and I vote republican too.  I just don't think they are either infallable, nor are they a party who looks to God for their direction.  Karl Rove should be proof enough of that.

As far as little pilgrim is concerned, I have to admit, they have organized for themselves a fantastic racket.  If  I mention any problem with the current administration, it will just be countered by the claim that it is only a fabrication of the liberal media.  Man, what a sweet scam.  I applaud you.

Thanks for the discussion though,

Thommy

Thommy,

Thank you so much for enlightening us. Guilty until proven innocent works for liberals only if a conservative is on the receiving end. We should have known that.      Hint: Nobody is guilty of anything yet except dirty liberal politics. They haven't been found guilty either, but we've decided they are guilty in the same court you used.  WOW!! - Let's go ahead and sentence them too.

On the remote chance that things work like the liberals want, Teddy and the boys are going to sing "Tip-Toe Through The Tulips" and dance in their pink ballet shoes. I'm going to be very sad if you and FC don't believe everything in this paragraph.

[airIam2worship]

The problem here is that so many are brainwashed into thinking that the Republican Democratic party is somehow the political party you should align yourself with for Christian values.  Too many are afraid to think for themselves, or believe thinking for themselves may lead them down the wrong path.  Recent Historical events clearly show a corrupt Republican Democratic party, void of morals in their politics, that still has the unjustified and unwavering loyalty of too many Christians.  People want to believe there is a light side political party and a dark side political party, while the truth is split between each party and often held by neither or sometimes both.  So you have a bunch of lunatics dancing around like monkeys cheerleading when they hear words like liberal and conservative, Republican and Democrat, without having any interest in learning the facts and becoming educated.

You know I don't to align myself with any particular party because God is neither a Democrat, a Republican, a liberal or a conservative. He is God. Jesus came to save all men, as long as they accepted the gift that God has freely given us which is salvation by the Blood of Jesus. At the moment we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, we become Christians, we become like our Father. We are no longer part of the world even though we live in the world. DON'T GET ME WRONG I AM A REGISTERED VOTER, AND I VOTE AT EACH ELECTION.What I am trying to say is that we may have 2 or 3 candidates and 2 may be Christians while the other is a liberal pro-abortion and all that type of thing God hates ( I definately won't vote for him), now of those 2 that are Christian 1 may be a democrat and the other a Republican, I don't let a political party get in the way of how God would have me vote! Dem or Rep. I turn to God and pray about it and ask Him which way to vote. So on my registration card it states I don't have a political preferance it is obvious I am going to vote for the man of God, no matter what his party is.
Now some of you may not agree with me but this is my own personal opinion and in the end of it all as it stands right now satan is the god of this world and he manipulates people, but I know Who the Victor is and I know Whose Kingdom will prevail for eternity. So I align myself with the Word of God and my vote is for Him. He then leads me in the path I should follow, and guides me.
I hope nobody takes this personal as I am not trying to step on any toes.

[nChrist]

To Dreamweaver, thank you for your response, and your defense of the faith. It's good to see someone here can stand by their beliefs with a defense rather than just insult someone with opposing opinions and cast them away, even if they play devil's advocate. Apparently no one else here has a response to the liberals about these issues, or other Christians like myself.

To Pastor Paul, again I respect your military service, but I question your pastoring skills, and I definitely question your ability to win coverts, especially those who might have differing political opinions if you can't engage in a debate with even a fellow believer.

To cris and blackeyedpeas, you insult before you can even debate, how do you win converts to Christ this way? This is why America hates us, not because we are outstanding Christians, but because we can't even defend our beliefs with information and discussion, we snigger in our little safe corner and cast insults.

Also, that was not an advertising link- that was a link to an article. You are obviously too narrow-minded to even read it.

I can't believe you actually removed me from this site. Is this really a Christian site? Isn't this the section for debates? Well when it got hot in the kitchen, I wasn't the one to leave. Good luck winning people for Christ, you would probably make us look bad here in California so you should maybe stick to the Bible belt.

God bless

No one removed you from this site, at least not yet, so cool your heels. The link you provided did link to items being offered for sale therfore it constitutes advertisement. Read and understand the forum rules. I strongly suggest before you go any further and stick your foot in your mouth again that you do read the forum rules.

You have also crossed the line on personal attacks. Again read the forum rules. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

These are not debateable points. This is an official warning and the last one that you will get.

Moderator

Pastor Roger,

Brother, don't you just love it when a newbie jumps in with both feet in his mouth, calls names, violates several forum rules, offers everyone advice from his position of grossly superior intellect, claims his account was deleted, but deletes his own account (making himself a guest), and states that he wasn't the one who left the hot kitchen.  UM??? - this doesn't quite add up. The only way you can get "Guest" by your name is to delete your own account, and you can't post without an account. So, I would surmise that he took a couple more cheap shots and left after he embarrassed himself thoroughly.  

Reference his offered advice, I've decided to send him a message by carrier pigeon if I want any.    BUT, I use a North Pole carrier pigeon without any wings, so he's a little bit slow.  

Cris, I didn't forget you. Just consider the source.

Oh, by the way, I have several dozen carrier pigeons at the North Pole if anyone else needs to seek advice from the ultimate wise one. BUT, they are all frozen and wingless.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Psalms 107:8-9 NASB  Let them give thanks to the LORD for His lovingkindness, And for His wonders to the sons of men!  For He has satisfied the thirsty soul, And the hungry soul He has filled with what is good.